BRIGGS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Lonzo Ball is highly overrated

I can't remember the many "superstar" player who had this many questions regarding their game entering the draft. I think he can be good. But I don't ever see being a top 20 talent in the NBA. I hope I'm wrong. But I'm glad we're not going to be in position to have decide to pick him. My concerns aren't even take the potential off the court disasters into consideration.

He'll be very good. Could be a game changer.

Go to Draft Express and watch the Lonzo Ball Weaknesses - Creating Offense video and come back...tell us you have no concerns with his athleticism, handle, offensive creativity.

To cherry pick some tidbits from that video.....

In 1/2 court offense only 3% (8 of 238) of Balls shots came inside the 3 point line

- highlighting his inability to beat people off the dribbe
- inability to get in the paint and to the rim
- his complete lack of a mid-range game

The video shows numerous situations where Ball gets the ball picked/knocked away in one-one situations === showing a sloppy handle and lack of burst to beat even 1 on 1 situations.

I believe Ball is has elite b-ball IQ, elite vision, elite passing, is an outstanding help defender and has elite feel for the game.

Outside of those major plus's I think he is a mediocre (at best) NBA athlete, his handle is sloppy (particularly in slow down / under duress situations). He has ZERO mid-range game, he has very poor shot selection (constantly settling for contested 3 point shots because he can't take people off the dribble). He is a horrible one/one defender.

I think he may be one of the more over-rated prospects in last 10 years.

Every player has a weakness video. I feel good Lonzo will be very good.

Will be interesting to see if he adds some muscle to his body...he'll have had a number of months since his season ended.

Will he have spent too much time hawking sneakers...or is he working on his strength?

Two things about him which I cannot understand, given his father's attention...

1) How do you let a kid continue to shoot with the form Ball has- his poor midrange game surely has a lot to do with his shooting form.

2) How does his father not have him work on his body? I was stunned when I saw his arms. No definition...no muscle bulk AT ALL. He'll get abused on D and beat up on picks.

We will see...the guy still has the court awareness that is hard to "learn" if you don't have it by his age. There are still many questions about him, though.

His gaudy 67eFG is the highest in the draft. Hes getting the ball in the basket. At 6-6 he has all that size and length to make plays and the avg 6 rebounds is the highest among guards--even those with skinny arms

Fox attempted 211 FTs - Ball 98

Again - in 1/2 court offense only 3% - 8 of 238 attempts were inside the 3 point line.

Somebody name me the last 3 great guards drafted top 5 who were mediocre athletes.

Magic Johnson Steph Curry Steve Nash Rip Hamilton Mike Bibby those guys were pretty good.

But?

Briggs, dunking alone doesn't make a great athlete. Aside from that, all I saw were clips of 6'7" dude dunking on much shorter highschool players. Why didn't we see dunk off the dribble that much against much college players. True Nash was the most athletic player but he was a much better shooter. Steph is an even better shooter with a quicker release. I don't consider RIP or Bibby to be great, but Magic was the LeBron of his era. Lonzo can't pull up going right. How long will it take most coaches to figure that out? What threat is he to score in the last seconds of the game? You're really going to be happy watching toss up a contested fadeaway 3 at the end of the clock. I'm not saying he won't be good, but I don't see franchise player material.

LOL Magic wasnt Lebrons underwear in terms of athletic ability??? Lonzo Ball ic clearly athletic enough. Im 6-4 and I never not even 1 time dunked a basketball on a ten foot hoop--a tennis ball bt not a basketball. And I held my own in sports. If a guy who is slightly taller is doing reverse slams--I consider that quite athletic.

Every 24 Hour fitness and YMCA is stocked with young kids who can dunk the ball Briggs -- you are laughable with some of the baloney you spit out.

reub wrote:Just how good is Hamidou Diallo? Is he worth considering with our pick?

I doubt the Knicks use a 7 pick on him my bet is he goes 13-14 with Miami

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Lonzo Ball is highly overrated

I can't remember the many "superstar" player who had this many questions regarding their game entering the draft. I think he can be good. But I don't ever see being a top 20 talent in the NBA. I hope I'm wrong. But I'm glad we're not going to be in position to have decide to pick him. My concerns aren't even take the potential off the court disasters into consideration.

He'll be very good. Could be a game changer.

Go to Draft Express and watch the Lonzo Ball Weaknesses - Creating Offense video and come back...tell us you have no concerns with his athleticism, handle, offensive creativity.

To cherry pick some tidbits from that video.....

In 1/2 court offense only 3% (8 of 238) of Balls shots came inside the 3 point line

- highlighting his inability to beat people off the dribbe
- inability to get in the paint and to the rim
- his complete lack of a mid-range game

The video shows numerous situations where Ball gets the ball picked/knocked away in one-one situations === showing a sloppy handle and lack of burst to beat even 1 on 1 situations.

I believe Ball is has elite b-ball IQ, elite vision, elite passing, is an outstanding help defender and has elite feel for the game.

Outside of those major plus's I think he is a mediocre (at best) NBA athlete, his handle is sloppy (particularly in slow down / under duress situations). He has ZERO mid-range game, he has very poor shot selection (constantly settling for contested 3 point shots because he can't take people off the dribble). He is a horrible one/one defender.

I think he may be one of the more over-rated prospects in last 10 years.

Every player has a weakness video. I feel good Lonzo will be very good.

Will be interesting to see if he adds some muscle to his body...he'll have had a number of months since his season ended.

Will he have spent too much time hawking sneakers...or is he working on his strength?

Two things about him which I cannot understand, given his father's attention...

1) How do you let a kid continue to shoot with the form Ball has- his poor midrange game surely has a lot to do with his shooting form.

2) How does his father not have him work on his body? I was stunned when I saw his arms. No definition...no muscle bulk AT ALL. He'll get abused on D and beat up on picks.

We will see...the guy still has the court awareness that is hard to "learn" if you don't have it by his age. There are still many questions about him, though.

His gaudy 67eFG is the highest in the draft. Hes getting the ball in the basket. At 6-6 he has all that size and length to make plays and the avg 6 rebounds is the highest among guards--even those with skinny arms

Fox attempted 211 FTs - Ball 98

Again - in 1/2 court offense only 3% - 8 of 238 attempts were inside the 3 point line.

Somebody name me the last 3 great guards drafted top 5 who were mediocre athletes.

Magic Johnson Steph Curry Steve Nash Rip Hamilton Mike Bibby those guys were pretty good.

But?

LOL - you pull out 4 guys that have been retired for years and I think 1 of those guys Magic went top 5.

So you are supporting my point -- that it is rare for a mediocre "NBA athlete" and a guard (which Ball is both) to get picked top 5.

That said --- Steph is actually a great example and a supporting argument for Ball.

I would say many of my concerns with Ball are similar to my worries about Curry and D-Russell last year --- the thing about Steph though was he was a ****ing scorer --- Ball isn't that guy.

Many intangibles to Balls game you are not equating

BRIGGS wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Lonzo Ball is highly overrated

I can't remember the many "superstar" player who had this many questions regarding their game entering the draft. I think he can be good. But I don't ever see being a top 20 talent in the NBA. I hope I'm wrong. But I'm glad we're not going to be in position to have decide to pick him. My concerns aren't even take the potential off the court disasters into consideration.

He'll be very good. Could be a game changer.

Go to Draft Express and watch the Lonzo Ball Weaknesses - Creating Offense video and come back...tell us you have no concerns with his athleticism, handle, offensive creativity.

To cherry pick some tidbits from that video.....

In 1/2 court offense only 3% (8 of 238) of Balls shots came inside the 3 point line

- highlighting his inability to beat people off the dribbe
- inability to get in the paint and to the rim
- his complete lack of a mid-range game

The video shows numerous situations where Ball gets the ball picked/knocked away in one-one situations === showing a sloppy handle and lack of burst to beat even 1 on 1 situations.

I believe Ball is has elite b-ball IQ, elite vision, elite passing, is an outstanding help defender and has elite feel for the game.

Outside of those major plus's I think he is a mediocre (at best) NBA athlete, his handle is sloppy (particularly in slow down / under duress situations). He has ZERO mid-range game, he has very poor shot selection (constantly settling for contested 3 point shots because he can't take people off the dribble). He is a horrible one/one defender.

I think he may be one of the more over-rated prospects in last 10 years.

Every player has a weakness video. I feel good Lonzo will be very good.

Will be interesting to see if he adds some muscle to his body...he'll have had a number of months since his season ended.

Will he have spent too much time hawking sneakers...or is he working on his strength?

Two things about him which I cannot understand, given his father's attention...

1) How do you let a kid continue to shoot with the form Ball has- his poor midrange game surely has a lot to do with his shooting form.

2) How does his father not have him work on his body? I was stunned when I saw his arms. No definition...no muscle bulk AT ALL. He'll get abused on D and beat up on picks.

We will see...the guy still has the court awareness that is hard to "learn" if you don't have it by his age. There are still many questions about him, though.

His gaudy 67eFG is the highest in the draft. Hes getting the ball in the basket. At 6-6 he has all that size and length to make plays and the avg 6 rebounds is the highest among guards--even those with skinny arms

Fox attempted 211 FTs - Ball 98

Again - in 1/2 court offense only 3% - 8 of 238 attempts were inside the 3 point line.

Somebody name me the last 3 great guards drafted top 5 who were mediocre athletes.

Magic Johnson Steph Curry Steve Nash Rip Hamilton Mike Bibby those guys were pretty good.

But?

LOL - you pull out 4 guys that have been retired for years and I think 1 of those guys Magic went top 5.

So you are supporting my point -- that it is rare for a mediocre "NBA athlete" and a guard (which Ball is both) to get picked top 5.

That said --- Steph is actually a great example and a supporting argument for Ball.

I would say many of my concerns with Ball are similar to my worries about Curry and D-Russell last year --- the thing about Steph though was he was a ****ing scorer --- Ball isn't that guy.

Many intangibles to Balls game you are not equating

Briggs -- I've stated on numerous occasions --- I believe Ball has.....

- elite b-ball IQ
- elite vision
- elite feel
- elite passing

I can't dispute those and that's why I love much about his game --- I'm just saying there are some glaring deficiencies that much of the hype is glossing over.

He actually reminds me of a 6'6" young Pablo Prigioni --- which wouldn't be a bad thing overall but that doesn't spell GREAT player to me.

Pablo had all of the ELITE traits I mentioned above but his game also had limitations --- even as a young player in Europe.

If Knicks get their hands on Lonzo --- I will be hoping he is an absolute stud but I have same concerns with him that I had with D-Russell and he has been unimpressive IMO so far in Laker career. Russell is basically an empty stat padder --- I think Ball has chance to lift a franchise up but he could also fall flat if his body doesn't hold up.

Nalod wrote:If Lonzo has one to be compared, I'd say Jason Kidd.

So does all the draft sites and "experts"....

EnySpree wrote:So I'm thinking there is no way Phoenix passes on Lonzo Ball.... if things stay the way they are, I see Fultz to Boston and Lonzo to Phoenix.... the Lakers just drafted a small forward last year in Ingram and they have Julius Randle at the 4. Russell isn't a point guard, he's a shooting guard. They need a center and a point guard. I think the lakers should be the ones to draft Fox

Would anyone trade Willy/#7 for #3(Josh Jackson)?

I say probably not -- but I love J-Jackson.

How about Willy/C-Lee/#7 for #3/Clarkson/Deng

We move young big for young guard (Clarkson) -- we swap Lee deal for Deng bad deal --- we net J-Jackson (maybe best player in the draft).

Baker (place-holder)
Clarkson
J-Jackson
Deng
KP

We need a Instagram tab Martin/Andrew!

Anyway, this kid Fultz is not a point guard. He's a flat out scorer. He reminds me of Jason Richardson. That doesn't diminish his value. He's just definately not a point guard. I still want this kid. He would be awesome as our starting 2 guard. Definately a future 20+ point scorer in the NBA

EnySpree wrote:https://www.instagram.com/p/BT__ZAtghDM/

We need a Instagram tab Martin/Andrew!

Anyway, this kid Fultz is not a point guard. He's a flat out scorer. He reminds me of Jason Richardson. That doesn't diminish his value. He's just definately not a point guard. I still want this kid. He would be awesome as our starting 2 guard. Definately a future 20+ point scorer in the NBA

TPercy wrote:

EnySpree wrote:https://www.instagram.com/p/BT__ZAtghDM/

We need a Instagram tab Martin/Andrew!

Anyway, this kid Fultz is not a point guard. He's a flat out scorer. He reminds me of Jason Richardson. That doesn't diminish his value. He's just definately not a point guard. I still want this kid. He would be awesome as our starting 2 guard. Definately a future 20+ point scorer in the NBA

He had an equal if not higher AST% than Lonzo Ball. How is he not a point guard? In today's NBA PGs are both scorers and creators..

That's inaccurate because there have been a ton of scoring point guards throughout every era of the NBA history.

Fultz played on a terrible team where he did alot of ball handling... so that stat is inflated. Stl doesn't mean Fultz is a bad player. He's just not a point guard. He's a highly versatile shooting guard. I would love to have him

EnySpree wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:We are not getting Ball. We should have a shot at Monk, i hope we can move up to top three though.

You shouldn't say you cant do something then finish off with you hope it happens.... that's just cursing yourself.

We won't get Ball even if we move up three spots. We would need to move up more like 5 spots to get him. I was hoping we can get "lucky" and be in a position to choose between Monk, Fox and Frank instead of watch other teams doing that.