crzymdups wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:In 4 games against top 25 programs Ball has gone to the line a total of 5 times - or just over 1 time per game.

In 6 games against top 25 programs Fox has gone to the line 38 times - or just over 6 times per game.

Ball doesn't get to the rim easily and doesn't attack the basket --- he has some physical limitations that folks are understating (very much like D-Russell when everyone was drooling over his fancy passes and 3 point shooting.

Careful on Ball --- he is not an elite NBA athlete. On the hand Fox is lightening quick and attacks the rim.

People seem to be falling in love with the range on his shot.

Russell had nice range as well -- Ball has no (nada/none) mid range game and he doesn't get to the rim with ease. I like Ball a lot -- I fell in love with him first 2 times I saw him but the more I watch the less impressed. He seems soft offensively to me and defensively but he rebounds the ball.

He is playing in Avery uptempo system on a team that simply doesn't defend. A kid like Fox on the other hand is being held in check somewhat by Calipari.

Fox gets to the rim as easy any player I've seen in recent memory. He defends, rebounds and he is unselfish....sees the floor.

We'd be lucky to get either but I think Ball has higher bust factor due to potential physical limitations. Or maybe I'm imagining the lack of speed/quickness I think I'm seeing on TV.

Yeah I was gonna say the Ball hype reminded me a little of D'Angelo.

I think Fox would be my pick now. Hope we can get in range for him.

I know we need a PG, but I'd really be happy if we ended up with Josh Jackson.

Knixkik wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:In 4 games against top 25 programs Ball has gone to the line a total of 5 times - or just over 1 time per game.

In 6 games against top 25 programs Fox has gone to the line 38 times - or just over 6 times per game.

Ball doesn't get to the rim easily and doesn't attack the basket --- he has some physical limitations that folks are understating (very much like D-Russell when everyone was drooling over his fancy passes and 3 point shooting.

Careful on Ball --- he is not an elite NBA athlete. On the hand Fox is lightening quick and attacks the rim.

People seem to be falling in love with the range on his shot.

Russell had nice range as well -- Ball has no (nada/none) mid range game and he doesn't get to the rim with ease. I like Ball a lot -- I fell in love with him first 2 times I saw him but the more I watch the less impressed. He seems soft offensively to me and defensively but he rebounds the ball.

He is playing in Avery uptempo system on a team that simply doesn't defend. A kid like Fox on the other hand is being held in check somewhat by Calipari.

Fox gets to the rim as easy any player I've seen in recent memory. He defends, rebounds and he is unselfish....sees the floor.

We'd be lucky to get either but I think Ball has higher bust factor due to potential physical limitations. Or maybe I'm imagining the lack of speed/quickness I think I'm seeing on TV.

Yeah I was gonna say the Ball hype reminded me a little of D'Angelo.

I think Fox would be my pick now. Hope we can get in range for him.

I know we need a PG, but I'd really be happy if we ended up with Josh Jackson.

I don't think we will be bad enough. Thinking we land in 8-11 range and top targets are Fox, Ntilikina, Bridges, and possibly Tatum if he doesn't continue to raise his stock. We should end up with a longterm PG or SF in this draft.

If we really commit to tanking we can end up with the 4th or 5th worst record (we play a few teams ahead of us after the all star break, including the sixers 3 times). Teams sometimes get lucky and move up from there in the lottery.

smackeddog wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:In 4 games against top 25 programs Ball has gone to the line a total of 5 times - or just over 1 time per game.

In 6 games against top 25 programs Fox has gone to the line 38 times - or just over 6 times per game.

Ball doesn't get to the rim easily and doesn't attack the basket --- he has some physical limitations that folks are understating (very much like D-Russell when everyone was drooling over his fancy passes and 3 point shooting.

Careful on Ball --- he is not an elite NBA athlete. On the hand Fox is lightening quick and attacks the rim.

People seem to be falling in love with the range on his shot.

Russell had nice range as well -- Ball has no (nada/none) mid range game and he doesn't get to the rim with ease. I like Ball a lot -- I fell in love with him first 2 times I saw him but the more I watch the less impressed. He seems soft offensively to me and defensively but he rebounds the ball.

He is playing in Avery uptempo system on a team that simply doesn't defend. A kid like Fox on the other hand is being held in check somewhat by Calipari.

Fox gets to the rim as easy any player I've seen in recent memory. He defends, rebounds and he is unselfish....sees the floor.

We'd be lucky to get either but I think Ball has higher bust factor due to potential physical limitations. Or maybe I'm imagining the lack of speed/quickness I think I'm seeing on TV.

Yeah I was gonna say the Ball hype reminded me a little of D'Angelo.

I think Fox would be my pick now. Hope we can get in range for him.

I know we need a PG, but I'd really be happy if we ended up with Josh Jackson.

I don't think we will be bad enough. Thinking we land in 8-11 range and top targets are Fox, Ntilikina, Bridges, and possibly Tatum if he doesn't continue to raise his stock. We should end up with a longterm PG or SF in this draft.

If we really commit to tanking we can end up with the 4th or 5th worst record (we play a few teams ahead of us after the all star break, including the sixers 3 times). Teams sometimes get lucky and move up from there in the lottery.

There's no real "commitment" to tanking. The players will play hard and the coach will coach to win. We still have too much talent to finish that poorly i believe. Even if Melo is traded, i don't think we can fall that far, but you never know.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Question for the draft followers and college bball guys -

are any of the PG or SG we're looking at really good lock down defenders? Or have that potential?

the more I read and watch Frank Ntilikina the more I think we find a way to get him. Unless we win the lottery and move up to a top 3. He's got a Rondo like build... almost a 7 foot wingspan and a very good athlete who is a pass first PG. He's got some liabilities for sure, but assume we heavily scout him. If we cant grab one of the top 5 guards this might be our play. We really need to execute on a guard prospect.

Agreed that we really need to get a good PG prospect. I don't know much about this Ntilikina guy. I could be convinced.

I really like D Fox from Kentucky the more I see him play. He's the guy I've watched most. I'm pretty convinced he'll go top 5 when all is said and done. Maybe 6.

It'd really help us to get us to that 4/5/6 range in the draft.

Willy and KP will for sure I would guess.
O'Quinn, Holiday, Jennings, Lee, Noah, Thomas, Kuz.

That's like 9 players in a top 11 rotation for next year who may be back. You want them to lose and play as if it doesn't matter. The way the Knicks are built, they need to try and win as many games as possible, but as fans we should be ok with losing because it helps our draft positioning.

We will be adding a 10th player to the above players I mentioned, and that's likely the lottery pick. I like that. The other move we have to make is likely trade Melo, who will be in his last year of his deal anyway (I can't see Melo not opt out after next season and go for 3-4 more years at guaranteed money). Probably 1 or 2 free agent signings. That's your roster right there for next season. 13 spots right there if we keep Jennings and Holiday in free agency (which we should).

As much as I'd like to say it's great we tank, I think it's far better for KP's and Willy's development, it's far better for the team's chances next year for this team to close the season strong. If this team wins half their remaining games, that'll put them at 36 or 37 wins for the season. The way the East is that may even be enough to be a low playoff seed. I'm not saying I even want the team to win that many games or be in the playoffs. I'm just saying that they should not approach the rest of the season to lose. That's not a winning culture or environment. Plus, it's not like we can completely overhaul the roster, change coaching staffs etc. again. We're going to have some continuity. Hornachek will get another season to show what he can do. Many of these players are on 3-4 year deals. There's going to KP, Willy and our lottery pick. Knicks need to form good habits on offense at the very least. They've been playing good basketball on offense the last few games. Really good. They need to keep that ball movement and teamwork up. It's the right way to play.

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Question for the draft followers and college bball guys -

are any of the PG or SG we're looking at really good lock down defenders? Or have that potential?

the more I read and watch Frank Ntilikina the more I think we find a way to get him. Unless we win the lottery and move up to a top 3. He's got a Rondo like build... almost a 7 foot wingspan and a very good athlete who is a pass first PG. He's got some liabilities for sure, but assume we heavily scout him. If we cant grab one of the top 5 guards this might be our play. We really need to execute on a guard prospect.

From what I have read about him he barely plays and only avgs 1.3 ast. How can anyone tell anything about him right now. Are people just looking at his measurable or are they examining his game?

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:
Not to be a downer but can we keep the tank talk in its own thread and just talk about prospects in this thread? This thread is my happy place, where I don't have to think about the current Knicks team.

We need to keep track of our draft positioning- it affects the prospects we're zoning in on

Yes, that's one thing, but I was responding to a long drawn out post about the pluses and minuses of tanking. Draft position is one thing. The morality of tanking probably could be in its own thread. Just being cranky and tired of seeing the tank or not to tank argument.

nixluva wrote:I'm starting to feel pretty good about the Knicks prospects in this draft. There are so many talented young players that pretty much anywhere the Knicks land will provide a quality player for the future. Of course the higher the better but this is a pretty deep draft and I think our scouts will have a lot to choose from.

To me there are 12 really good prospects then a huge dropoff, and a bunch of PF/C types. Of the 12 elite prospects, 10 of them are either PG, SG, or SF. So it is important to land one of those 10. I would take any of them and feel like we got a great longterm core player. Ball, Fultz, Jackson, Isaac, D Smith, Fox, Monk, Tatum, Ntilikina, or Bridges.