knicks1248 wrote:Aside from atlanta, teams have been raining 3's on us from every position on the floor, that's a defensive approach, thats not on any one player. We have seen this movie before, and we know the exact reason it's happening.

So you can try to point fingers, but ever since Rambis was hired, it's all about go ahead and give up a 3, he did it with fisher, he did it when he ran the show, and now that he's the so called defensive coordinator, we're seeing it more and more.

All you have to do to beat the knicks is move the ball.

We are #1 in the league in FG attempts per game https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/shooting-pct

yet we are the worst team in 2nd chance shooting Pct,we foul too much, and our guards avoids contact like the plague.

Are we capitalizing on anything we do well.

Every time the team struggles it points to melo, which is silly

I'm trying to follow your logic here. You think it's simply the defensive scheme and nothing to do with Melo and KP being put in tough situations guarding SF's and Stretch 4's? KP can't guard the paint as he naturally wants to do and also chase 3pt shooting 4's. If we put them at the 4&5 spots we can play another defensive player that can move and rotate to cover the 3pt line.

You mentioned Rambis but Melo at the 3 spot has also been the case. I don't think it works for this team. It's not about bashing or blaming Melo. This is a practical decision!!!

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Aside from atlanta, teams have been raining 3's on us from every position on the floor, that's a defensive approach, thats not on any one player. We have seen this movie before, and we know the exact reason it's happening.

So you can try to point fingers, but ever since Rambis was hired, it's all about go ahead and give up a 3, he did it with fisher, he did it when he ran the show, and now that he's the so called defensive coordinator, we're seeing it more and more.

All you have to do to beat the knicks is move the ball.

We are #1 in the league in FG attempts per game https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/shooting-pct

yet we are the worst team in 2nd chance shooting Pct,we foul too much, and our guards avoids contact like the plague.

Are we capitalizing on anything we do well.

Every time the team struggles it points to melo, which is silly

I'm trying to follow your logic here. You think it's simply the defensive scheme and nothing to do with Melo and KP being put in tough situations guarding SF's and Stretch 4's? KP can't guard the paint as he naturally wants to do and also chase 3pt shooting 4's. If we put them at the 4&5 spots we can play another defensive player that can move and rotate to cover the 3pt line.

You mentioned Rambis but Melo at the 3 spot has also been the case. I don't think it works for this team. It's not about bashing or blaming Melo. This is a practical decision!!!

jodie meeks shooting 6 tryes is on melo, if he was at the 4 meeks still shoots 6 treys.

You're missing the point then! Having another Forward that can MOVE should help with covering the perimeter. Meeks wasn't just standing still he was running around screens and IMO Noah backed off rather than help Lee by showing hard on Meeks until Lee had a chance to recover. Defense is a TEAM function as is the offense that uses screens and PnR to block defenders long enough to get open shots!!!

Knicks need more range from their defenders so that they can shutdown penetration and recover. Melo doesn't have great range as a defender so he should not be chasing 3's on D. If you take Noah out and put Holiday in then he has a better chance of keeping up with 3's and can also guard a 1 or 2 if he gets caught on a switch. Melo can't do that!

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Aside from atlanta, teams have been raining 3's on us from every position on the floor, that's a defensive approach, thats not on any one player. We have seen this movie before, and we know the exact reason it's happening.

So you can try to point fingers, but ever since Rambis was hired, it's all about go ahead and give up a 3, he did it with fisher, he did it when he ran the show, and now that he's the so called defensive coordinator, we're seeing it more and more.

All you have to do to beat the knicks is move the ball.

We are #1 in the league in FG attempts per game https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/shooting-pct

yet we are the worst team in 2nd chance shooting Pct,we foul too much, and our guards avoids contact like the plague.

Are we capitalizing on anything we do well.

Every time the team struggles it points to melo, which is silly

I'm trying to follow your logic here. You think it's simply the defensive scheme and nothing to do with Melo and KP being put in tough situations guarding SF's and Stretch 4's? KP can't guard the paint as he naturally wants to do and also chase 3pt shooting 4's. If we put them at the 4&5 spots we can play another defensive player that can move and rotate to cover the 3pt line.

You mentioned Rambis but Melo at the 3 spot has also been the case. I don't think it works for this team. It's not about bashing or blaming Melo. This is a practical decision!!!

jodie meeks shooting 6 tryes is on melo, if he was at the 4 meeks still shoots 6 treys.

You're missing the point then! Having another Forward that can MOVE should help with covering the perimeter. Meeks wasn't just standing still he was running around screens and IMO Noah backed off rather than help Lee by showing hard on Meeks until Lee had a chance to recover. Defense is a TEAM function as is the offense that uses screens and PnR to block defenders long enough to get open shots!!!

Knicks need more range from their defenders so that they can shutdown penetration and recover. Melo doesn't have great range as a defender so he should not be chasing 3's on D. If you take Noah out and put Holiday in then he has a better chance of keeping up with 3's and can also guard a 1 or 2 if he gets caught on a switch. Melo can't do that!

Defense is also a team scheme. How teams defend players coming off picks and screens is a team level organization principal on D.

When Rambis was head coach last season, the Knicks 3pt defense was terrible. Now Rambis is defensive coach, their philosophy is the same, the personnel is almost completely different... Rambis is the constant.

Fisher actually had a philosophy of trying to run guys off the line and it worked quite well. Rambis's philosophy is different and it shows. The Knicks are always playing way too far off the shooters and trying to pack the paint on D and it leads to them having to scramble for close outs, which they're often late on - particularly Melo and KP - but the philosophy of packing the paint and closing out on shooters is Rambis's. Is it the right one for their personnel? It doesn't seem like it. It makes the Knicks performance very dependent on how the other team shoots from 3. Against a team that can light it up from 3? It's a death sentence in today's league.

But come on, man. You know this pack the paint and close out on shooters is very much a Phil and Rambis thing. It's all wrong for their personnel.

Interesting point but I would note that Holiday gets called for fouls where he's too close to his man. BJ plays pressure defense. Lee tries to play tight man D but often makes the mistake of going Under the screen.

I see LT get caught helping inside at times. My point was that Melo and KP at the 4&5 puts them closer to the paint more often and less chasing smaller and quicker players. That's not about packing the paint but simply covering less ground which helps both of them.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Aside from atlanta, teams have been raining 3's on us from every position on the floor, that's a defensive approach, thats not on any one player. We have seen this movie before, and we know the exact reason it's happening.

So you can try to point fingers, but ever since Rambis was hired, it's all about go ahead and give up a 3, he did it with fisher, he did it when he ran the show, and now that he's the so called defensive coordinator, we're seeing it more and more.

All you have to do to beat the knicks is move the ball.

We are #1 in the league in FG attempts per game https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/shooting-pct

yet we are the worst team in 2nd chance shooting Pct,we foul too much, and our guards avoids contact like the plague.

Are we capitalizing on anything we do well.

Every time the team struggles it points to melo, which is silly

I'm trying to follow your logic here. You think it's simply the defensive scheme and nothing to do with Melo and KP being put in tough situations guarding SF's and Stretch 4's? KP can't guard the paint as he naturally wants to do and also chase 3pt shooting 4's. If we put them at the 4&5 spots we can play another defensive player that can move and rotate to cover the 3pt line.

You mentioned Rambis but Melo at the 3 spot has also been the case. I don't think it works for this team. It's not about bashing or blaming Melo. This is a practical decision!!!

jodie meeks shooting 6 tryes is on melo, if he was at the 4 meeks still shoots 6 treys.

You're missing the point then! Having another Forward that can MOVE should help with covering the perimeter. Meeks wasn't just standing still he was running around screens and IMO Noah backed off rather than help Lee by showing hard on Meeks until Lee had a chance to recover. Defense is a TEAM function as is the offense that uses screens and PnR to block defenders long enough to get open shots!!!

Knicks need more range from their defenders so that they can shutdown penetration and recover. Melo doesn't have great range as a defender so he should not be chasing 3's on D. If you take Noah out and put Holiday in then he has a better chance of keeping up with 3's and can also guard a 1 or 2 if he gets caught on a switch. Melo can't do that!

Defense is also a team scheme. How teams defend players coming off picks and screens is a team level organization principal on D.

When Rambis was head coach last season, the Knicks 3pt defense was terrible. Now Rambis is defensive coach, their philosophy is the same, the personnel is almost completely different... Rambis is the constant.

Fisher actually had a philosophy of trying to run guys off the line and it worked quite well. Rambis's philosophy is different and it shows. The Knicks are always playing way too far off the shooters and trying to pack the paint on D and it leads to them having to scramble for close outs, which they're often late on - particularly Melo and KP - but the philosophy of packing the paint and closing out on shooters is Rambis's. Is it the right one for their personnel? It doesn't seem like it. It makes the Knicks performance very dependent on how the other team shoots from 3. Against a team that can light it up from 3? It's a death sentence in today's league.

But come on, man. You know this pack the paint and close out on shooters is very much a Phil and Rambis thing. It's all wrong for their personnel.

Interesting point but I would note that Holiday gets called for fouls where he's too close to his man. BJ plays pressure defense. Lee tries to play tight man D but often makes the mistake of going Under the screen.

I see LT get caught helping inside at times. My point was that Melo and KP at the 4&5 puts them closer to the paint more often and less chasing smaller and quicker players. That's not about packing the paint but simply covering less ground which helps both of them.

Justin Holiday is a good defender. Very good. He's been plagued by that bull**** move Harden does (actually I believe Chris Paul popularized it in the past ten years or so). I'm hoping he'll learn to avoid that, because otherwise he's been very good.

I tend to somewhat agree about Melo and KP at the 4/5. Though I have paid close attention when they do that and their interior D definitely suffers - teams tend to drive it down the lane. Also their defensive rebounding suffers a lot in that configuration, too. And their offensive rebounding, which is a surprise strength with KOQ and Willy HG and Noah... becomes kinda lost too.

There are pluses and minuses... I would like to see a lineup of KP and Willy and Lee and Holiday and Rose at some point. I think that would be an intriguing mix of offense and defense with shooters and scorers and rebounders. To me CLee and Holiday are a great pair to have hounding guys on the perimeter - they aren't perfect, but they're the best we got.

DRose
Holiday
CLee
KP
Willy

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Vmart wrote:I wish we could hide him on another team.

Too bad about that NTC, huh?

NTC=License to hold a team hostage. Ultimate outcome will be cap space. No picks no young talent we will have to settle for cap space.

Melo/KOQ
Kuz/Lance
Kristaps/Hermangomez
Rose/Jennings
Lee/Holiday

That should be it for now. Noah needs a new home. So does Lance. I dunno how we can facilitate that.

EnySpree wrote:Starters/Bench

Melo/KOQ
Kuz/Lance
Kristaps/Hermangomez
Rose/Jennings
Lee/Holiday

That should be it for now. Noah needs a new home. So does Lance. I dunno how we can facilitate that.

The only option right now is Jeff benching them but I don't see that happening. We can only hope that Jeff makes Lineup changes but I don't get the feeling that's going to happen anytime soon.

The most we can hope for is that they get back to playing the way they were before this downturn.

rickv3 wrote:I just read this on ESPN. I found this interesting if Hornacek really threw Phil under the bus for putting this team together.

Jeff Hornacek isn't considering switching Kurt Rambis's role as defensive coordinator on the Knicks staff amid the team's struggles. "No, not at all.... Stuff that we've done in this last month, it'll work fine. We've just got to keep going over it and continue to reiterate what we want them to do." The take here is that it's on the players and coaches to improve the defense but it's misguided to point the finger solely at Rambis. If fans are looking for someone to blame, they should also consider the role the team president played in putting this roster together.

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks

That was more the writers take not Hornacek.