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Sweetney is Untouchable now?
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kam77
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8/9/2004  5:00 PM
c'mon folks, I like Mike Sweetney too, but if the right trade comes along you have to move him. I want to see him go for the right reasons, which would be to bring in a PF or C. I DONT want to trade him for VC, Antoine Walker, Jerry Stackhouse, or any junk like that.

But if we're talking Shareef here, how do you say no?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
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martin
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8/9/2004  5:04 PM
no to VC, yes to Shareef? Are you kidding?

All things being equal, you trade Sweets for VC in a heartbeat because Vince is a HUGE trade pawn. Yeah, you would have lots of guards, but you can trade good skill and a crowd pleaser in a second.
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Bonn1997
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8/9/2004  5:07 PM
If Vince were a huge pawn, he'd have been traded by now.

I'd trade Sweetney for a few players but not many and not for any backcourt player other than Baron Davis, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, maybe Paul Pierce. I'd probably then trade those players (except Lebron and Kobe) for a PF/C.
Yeah, trading him for Shareef is absurd. I wouldn't trade Marbury, Crawford, TT, or Sweetney for him.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/09/2004 17:08:38]
martin
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8/9/2004  5:14 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

If Vince were a huge pawn, he'd have been traded by now.

I'd trade Sweetney for a few players but not many and not for any backcourt player other than Baron Davis, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, maybe Paul Pierce. I'd probably then trade those players (except Lebron and Kobe) for a PF/C.
Yeah, trading him for Shareef is absurd. I wouldn't trade Marbury, Crawford, TT, or Sweetney for him.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/09/2004 17:08:38]

VC is a HUGE pawn but he is also a pawn that sell tickets, and that's the reason Toronto is not trading him - they wouldn't get fair value - and we are not talking skills, we are talking $$$.
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MS
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8/9/2004  5:15 PM
Shareef is a good player but he is a loser, thats what he does, every where he goes he doesn't make a difference and can't carry a team to the playoff. They had terry, robinson, and ratliff and couldn't get into the playoffs in the east thats a disgrace.......Has anyone watched vince cater play, because when he is on his game he is better than paul pierce, lebron, and just about every other player in the league, he wins games by himself, and beats people off the dribble. You trade TT for Vince not Sweetney....He is hard nosed like to rebound and defend, you don't find hard workers often.......
EnySpree
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8/9/2004  5:32 PM
I kind of like the idea of having Shareef and Timmy on the wings. If Sweetney had to go to make it happen I would cry a whole night and maybe the next morning but Shareef has proven he is capable of doing alot of good things with the basketball.

We all are kind of placing Sweets on a pedistal. I hope he lives up to our hype.

To say Sweets will be better than Shareef is saying Sweets will be a top five big man soon. Shareef may not be a top five power fwd but dude is definately top 10.

I think Isiah would definately have to consider it.
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rain
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8/9/2004  5:39 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

I kind of like the idea of having Shareef and Timmy on the wings. If Sweetney had to go to make it happen I would cry a whole night and maybe the next morning but Shareef has proven he is capable of doing alot of good things with the basketball.

We all are kind of placing Sweets on a pedistal. I hope he lives up to our hype.

To say Sweets will be better than Shareef is saying Sweets will be a top five big man soon. Shareef may not be a top five power fwd but dude is definately top 10.

I think Isiah would definately have to consider it.
How exactly is Shareef a power forward? There's nothing powerful about his game. He's a finesse player. We need rebounds, blocks, and physical presence inside. We don't get that with Shareef... older with a worse contract. Shareef isn't exactly in demand right now.
simrud
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8/9/2004  5:41 PM
Reef is soft, nevermind the fact that he has not won, he played for the Hawks and the Grizz for the most part. He is an average rebounder, is not a shotblocker, and a poor defender overall. He has post game, but I don't think he has enough of that post game to cover up his poor defense, lackluster rebounding, no shotblocking, and a general lazy atitude. I personally would like to see Sweetney develop. Reef will not make us a title contender, so we might as well take our chacnes on Sweetney turning into something special.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Bonn1997
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8/9/2004  6:05 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

I kind of like the idea of having Shareef and Timmy on the wings. If Sweetney had to go to make it happen I would cry a whole night and maybe the next morning but Shareef has proven he is capable of doing alot of good things with the basketball.

We all are kind of placing Sweets on a pedistal. I hope he lives up to our hype.

To say Sweets will be better than Shareef is saying Sweets will be a top five big man soon. Shareef may not be a top five power fwd but dude is definately top 10.
I'd call him a top 15 or 18 PF (i.e., an average starting PF).

Here are PFs I'd take ahead of Shareef (you have to consider defense and potential, not just scoring)
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Amare Stoudemire
Elton Brand
Jermaine O’Neal
Kenyon Martin
Dirk Nowitzki
Carlos Boozer
Rasheed Wallace
Pao Gasol
Antoine Walker
Zach Randolph
Chris Bosh
Nene Hilario
Kurt Thomas
Mike Sweetney
mintyfreshness33
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8/9/2004  6:26 PM
kurt thomas wtf??
LongIslandKnicksFan
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8/9/2004  6:41 PM
minty, KT has lead the Knicks in rebounds this season. He is somewhat a smart player and if you trade KT, you get a lot less rebounds, and he has kept the Knicks close in games, but during the end of the season went on a decline. KT is one of the good PF's in the game, and although it's too early to tell for Sweetney, I think he will become a solid PF, even better than Kurt.
technomaster
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8/9/2004  7:39 PM
Wow...

Here are Shareef's career numbers.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shareef_abdur-rahim/index.html?nav=page

Career averages: 20.1ppg, 8.2rpg, 2.8apg, 46.6% from the field

His 1.08steals/gm and .86blocks/gm are just "eh" for a PF.

Of course... keep in mind that SAR's career numbers are better in EVERY category than Tim Thomas's best except for 3pt shooting.

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kam77
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8/9/2004  7:48 PM
ahem... yes you see Shareef is being dissed heavily and Sweetney is being deified. but thanks guys you gave me a good laugh.

Shareef is a low-post presense offensively with a much more polished game than my man Sweetney's. I love Sweetney, i just think it is funny the pedestal he is on.

I'm real down on VC joining us. How may SGs do we need? On the other hand, a starting PF actually IS something we need. And I believe that Sweetney is in Isiah's mind right now as a trade chip. I don't believe Isiah is looking at Sweetney as untouchable. Now we can debate Shareef til the cows come home, but this thread was about Sweetney.

I'm, asking you, IS HE UNTOUCHABLE?

lets leave Guards out of this discussion for a minute and imagine we could package Sweetney with Penny and get virtually any Forward or Center in the league not named Shaq/Duncan/Garnett.

Would you trade Sweetney?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
fishmike
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8/9/2004  7:58 PM
no player is untouchable, but when I think of Sweetney I'm looking at my PF for the next 10-12 years. The very worst he could be IMO if he slims down too much is a Corlis Williamson type player, but I see his upside as a mix of Elton Brand and Zach Randolph. Maybe you think less of him, but 21 year old players with that kind of upside are about as close to untradable as it gets.
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Silverfuel
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8/9/2004  9:07 PM
I really like Sweetney but I think a lot of us are over rating him. I think he will be just as good as Kurt in 4 years. He has tremendous rebounding ability but I cannot see him being a true scoring threat.

I would trade Sweetney for VC or Shareef. Not for Antoine but Carter like martin said can bring us a lot of other good players in return. Owners love the dude cause he sells tickets. Problem is, when he is in NYC, Dolan will call him untouchable cause he will sell anything with his name on it in 20 seconds.
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fishmike
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8/9/2004  9:23 PM
Kurt never had Sweetney's footwork or post skills. Sweetney was also one of the best shot blockers in the NCAA, it was never part of Kurts game. Sweetney has the wingspan of a player well over 7 feet as well. Sweetney has a much more powerfull body, and he's already a better passer. All this with a huge work ethic and great attitude.
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s3231
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8/9/2004  9:24 PM
"Here are PFs I'd take ahead of Shareef (you have to consider defense and potential, not just scoring)
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Amare Stoudemire
Elton Brand
Jermaine O’Neal
Kenyon Martin
Dirk Nowitzki
Carlos Boozer
Rasheed Wallace
Pao Gasol
Antoine Walker
Zach Randolph
Chris Bosh
Nene Hilario
Kurt Thomas
Mike Sweetney"




I'm gonna add Chris Webber to that list
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
s3231
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8/9/2004  9:30 PM
I don't think anyone here is saying that Sweetney is untouchable, however, it would not be smart to just trade him away for a player like Shareef Abdur Rahim. Rahim is a talented player, however, Sweetney IMO has shown flashes that he can be an Elton Brand type PF. Lets see what Sweetney can do when getting major minutes before we just put him in any trade. Players like Sweetney that are unselfish and hardworking are very hard to come by. I think we should give him a chance to prove himself and I think Zeke will make sure that Sweetney gets a lot of minutes this year. The sky's the limit for this kid.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
BigSm00th
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8/9/2004  9:41 PM
The Knicks need a back-to-the-basket type scorer, and I think Sweetney is that guy.

However, if they were offered a deal to get a legit back/basket scorer, I'd consider it.

Would LAC want to do a Tim Thomas/Sweetney for Elton Brand move after this year. Thomas is expiring and they'll need a 3 with Kittles being a FA. Brand has that huge contract, they could use the money they save after that year to re-sign Sweetney and Kaman and have a PF/C for 1/2 the price of just Brand. Would the Knicks do that deal?

Sweetney will be a main reason if the Knicks are succesful this year.
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s3231
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8/9/2004  9:46 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

The Knicks need a back-to-the-basket type scorer, and I think Sweetney is that guy.

However, if they were offered a deal to get a legit back/basket scorer, I'd consider it.

Would LAC want to do a Tim Thomas/Sweetney for Elton Brand move after this year. Thomas is expiring and they'll need a 3 with Kittles being a FA. Brand has that huge contract, they could use the money they save after that year to re-sign Sweetney and Kaman and have a PF/C for 1/2 the price of just Brand. Would the Knicks do that deal?

Sweetney will be a main reason if the Knicks are succesful this year.






I'm sure the Clippers would consider it since Sterling loves to save money. However, lets see what Sweets can do as a starter before we trade him. If Sweetney can develop into a Brand type of player (which I think he can) then there will be no point in trading a useful expiring contract like Tim's for Elton.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
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