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Game Thread: Road back home......Knicks Vs. Pacers
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Knicks67
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12/21/2016  12:42 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:AND Noah woke up in the 4th. Why can't Noah play with that energy more often. That was the Noah who was worth 72 million.

Don't mind Noah playing only half the game as long as he brings the energy he did tonight every minute on the court. Also, he needs to be aggressive like he was tonight driving to the basket when teams are not guarding him.


Noah on the court has to be paired with the right group though.

In that 2nd half we were down 15 before Coach H deciced to go with O'Quinn and Melo as our bigs. It really helped. 4 smalls and a stretch 5 in O'Quinn. We changed how we were playing on BOTH ends. Then Noah came back and played fantastic defense. He was also better on offense because (wait for it) he didn't have to play with the starters. He even closed well.

That's the thing I keep saying. Noah can have major impact off the bench. But we can't keep playing the same starting 5. Even our closing lineup tonight, it was 2 point guards with Jennings/Rose and our usual starting front court. Something has to be done to change the way the starters play. They just don't seem to have good chemistry and in my opinion just enough team speed. This game changed once we went smaller and Melo to the 4. This is what we need to do. Either play a smaller quicker backcourt with Jennings/Rose more often. Or bring either KP or Noah off the bench (Noah preferably). The league is just too fast right now to be playing the starting 5 we are.

Here's what I suggest if Noah MUST start.

1- Bring KP at the 6 minute mark, and move Melo to 4 with Holiday coming in as a starter.
2- Replace Lee with Jennings. More team speed. More fastbreaks. More pressure on the ball defensively.

To me it has to be one of the above 2. The team has enough talent to be a 3rd or 4th seed in the East if they sort out how they use their rotations. The constant talk about slow starts on the road. Well it's all back to energy. Speed. When the offense starts to bog down into Melo or KP ball too much, the reason is that Noah simply is ineffective as a scorer, Lee isn't a shot creator and if Rose is not creating it will likely be a 1 on 1 play with Noah's man easily sinking to KP or Melo. Now instead if you have Jennings in place of Lee, you can push the ball more at ease and it gives you another dribble penetration and shot creating threat. Noah's lack of ability to score is a little negated because Jennings and Rose will constantly be trying to get into the paint and Noah's man will go help, leaving Noah open for layups (which is the one type of shot he is decent at making). Alternatively starting Holiday instead of KP is out of the box type of thinking move, but it can help as well if you're thinking about lineup effectiveness.

That is if Noah must start. The much simpler solution to me is to start O'Quinn, and use Noah off the bench. When Noah plays with the energy and effectiveness you like you close with him. When not, you give him only backup minutes.

I think the coaches and Phil are hoping Noah and Rose rediscover their Chicago chemistry. Which is not a bad idea, but if we want to do that we have to run the ball through Rose much much more than we are. We have to scrap most of the Triangle and most of the other sets we run and go much more Rose/Noah pick and rolls to start the offense. That and pray neither Rose or Noah get seriously hurt.

Anyway great come from behind win. Great game by Melo. What a shooting clinic. He played with a flow and freedom I really liked. Rose in this and the Laker game (last 2 healthy full games he's played) like a MVP level Rose. Guys weren't lieing when they said it. Rose looks like his old self. He's getting to the rim at will and with ease scoring in there. We need to run much much more pick and rolls with him and Noah and him and KP. Those are extremely effective.

No way would I like to see Kristaps off the bench, if you want a disgruntled player then do so. He's been playing some great basketball and hitting him with a demotion is unfair to clearly one of our top players. He is a budding star and should get a starters role even if just learning for the future.
AUTOADVERT
Chandler
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12/21/2016  8:14 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I'm still not a fan of the two PGs closing the games because of their lack of 3ppt shooting and on most occasions suspect defense. Why not keep Lee or Holiday in?

Same here. Would rather have Holiday but Lee would do.

Holiday had a great great game tonight. He always seems to be in the right place for a loose ball, make a big rebound, make the right pass, sink a quietly important fourth quarter bucket. He had a huge assist to Melo for the three that started Melo's hot streak when they were down 13. He also came up with a huge rebound that slipped through KP's hands in the 4th. He also had some good defensive one on one stops of PG13 in the 4th.

I like that guy a lot.


Holiday is just a baller... He's not outstanding in any one area, but he can do a lot of things well. I thought he was just a D & 3 guy, but he has a pretty well-rounded game, moves well without the ball, and you can see that he's a competitor.

He's been a pleasant surprise.

Agree w all of the above except he has been a huge surprise for me. Very reliable on defense. Poised. And every time he scores I'm like that's just extra reason to like him. On top of all that he seems like a fabulous, supportive teammate. To think we had AA starting last year and Holiday is our backup this year. We've improved in more ways than just adding talent. Same too w Rose and Noah. They bring a true competitiveness w needed

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BigRedDog
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12/21/2016  9:55 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:This should be our blueprint going forward: let Noah and Jennings break down the defense, get in the paint, and kick it out to our 3 point shooters--Melo, KP, Lee, Holiday, Lance

Lance??? really???

Yeah. Lance was a real good 3 point shooter last year. One of the best in the league. Don't know what happened this year. lol

He has been hurt and has plantar fasciitis in both feet.

Lance played 6 minutes and was -10. Rest this guy for 2 months and see if he can get healthy.

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
GustavBahler
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12/21/2016  10:51 AM
I like the 2 guard lineup because it allows Jennings to be the distributor that Rose hasnt been often this season, while letting Rose attack the rim, be part of a big three on offense, without the offense riding on Rose, and his ability to finish.
holfresh
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12/21/2016  12:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/21/2016  12:35 PM
GustavBahler wrote:I like the 2 guard lineup because it allows Jennings to be the distributor that Rose hasnt been often this season, while letting Rose attack the rim, be part of a big three on offense, without the offense riding on Rose, and his ability to finish.

He occupies the space of a defender or a three point shooter who can spread the floor for our one on one players...We have three guys who can get a shot on their own...We don't need someone else to create for them...I would love to see Melo run more pick and role than anyone else..He is a great passer and he isn't being used enough in that role...Rose can be that creator as well when he gets comfortable with the offense and knows the team's habits..It is far more valuable to have Lee on the court than Jennings..I'll say this as well, people forget that Hornacek has the same experience as Fisher...He isn't a seasoned coach...
nixluva
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12/21/2016  12:42 PM
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I like the 2 guard lineup because it allows Jennings to be the distributor that Rose hasnt been often this season, while letting Rose attack the rim, be part of a big three on offense, without the offense riding on Rose, and his ability to finish.

He occupies the space of a defender or a three point shooter who can spread the floor for our one on one players...We have three guys who can get a shot on their own...We don't need someone else to create for them...I would love to see Melo run more pick and role than anyone else..He is a great passer and he isn't being used enough in that role...Rose can be that creator as well when he gets comfortable with the offense and knows the team's habits..It is far more valuable to have Lee on the court than Jennings..I'll say this as well, people forget that Hornacek has the same experience as Fisher...He isn't a seasoned coach...


Hornacek has a bit more experience than Fisher did.

He was hired for the 2007–08 season by the Jazz as a special assistant coach and to help Andrei Kirilenko and others with their shooting.[7] In May 2008 Hornacek interviewed for a coaching position with the Chicago Bulls, meeting with general manager John Paxson. He put off seeking a coaching position until his children were older so the extensive travel would not put excess pressure on his family. After the departure of Jerry Sloan and Phil Johnson in February 2011, Jeff Hornacek became a full assistant coach with the Utah Jazz.[9]

For the season, the Suns improved by 23 victories upon the previous season's record, which led to a 48-34 record in Hornacek's first season as a head coach. This accomplishment lead to the Phoenix Suns becoming the most improved team during the 2013-14 NBA season. Despite the improvement, the Suns still missed the playoffs and Hornacek was the runner-up coach in the NBA Coach of the Year Award receiving 37 1st place votes. He lost to three time winner Gregg Popovich.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hornacek
holfresh
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12/21/2016  1:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/21/2016  1:06 PM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I like the 2 guard lineup because it allows Jennings to be the distributor that Rose hasnt been often this season, while letting Rose attack the rim, be part of a big three on offense, without the offense riding on Rose, and his ability to finish.

He occupies the space of a defender or a three point shooter who can spread the floor for our one on one players...We have three guys who can get a shot on their own...We don't need someone else to create for them...I would love to see Melo run more pick and role than anyone else..He is a great passer and he isn't being used enough in that role...Rose can be that creator as well when he gets comfortable with the offense and knows the team's habits..It is far more valuable to have Lee on the court than Jennings..I'll say this as well, people forget that Hornacek has the same experience as Fisher...He isn't a seasoned coach...


Hornacek has a bit more experience than Fisher did.

He was hired for the 2007–08 season by the Jazz as a special assistant coach and to help Andrei Kirilenko and others with their shooting.[7] In May 2008 Hornacek interviewed for a coaching position with the Chicago Bulls, meeting with general manager John Paxson. He put off seeking a coaching position until his children were older so the extensive travel would not put excess pressure on his family. After the departure of Jerry Sloan and Phil Johnson in February 2011, Jeff Hornacek became a full assistant coach with the Utah Jazz.[9]

For the season, the Suns improved by 23 victories upon the previous season's record, which led to a 48-34 record in Hornacek's first season as a head coach. This accomplishment lead to the Phoenix Suns becoming the most improved team during the 2013-14 NBA season. Despite the improvement, the Suns still missed the playoffs and Hornacek was the runner-up coach in the NBA Coach of the Year Award receiving 37 1st place votes. He lost to three time winner Gregg Popovich.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hornacek

As an assistant coach teaching AK47 to shoot, OK..Honacek is playing Melo for longer stretches than he has ever played in his career...One of the reasons he didn't play in GS is because he said he felt worn out...Every coach is trying to cut minutes of their older players to keep them fresh, Hornacek is doing the opposite...Melo physically looks like a different player this year...The best he looked in terms of movement was in Miami...Young coaches just want to win now, it will hurt us later...It's also a function of our bench..Phil plays a role in this too...
smackeddog
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12/21/2016  1:32 PM
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I like the 2 guard lineup because it allows Jennings to be the distributor that Rose hasnt been often this season, while letting Rose attack the rim, be part of a big three on offense, without the offense riding on Rose, and his ability to finish.

He occupies the space of a defender or a three point shooter who can spread the floor for our one on one players...We have three guys who can get a shot on their own...We don't need someone else to create for them...I would love to see Melo run more pick and role than anyone else..He is a great passer and he isn't being used enough in that role...Rose can be that creator as well when he gets comfortable with the offense and knows the team's habits..It is far more valuable to have Lee on the court than Jennings..I'll say this as well, people forget that Hornacek has the same experience as Fisher...He isn't a seasoned coach...


Hornacek has a bit more experience than Fisher did.

He was hired for the 2007–08 season by the Jazz as a special assistant coach and to help Andrei Kirilenko and others with their shooting.[7] In May 2008 Hornacek interviewed for a coaching position with the Chicago Bulls, meeting with general manager John Paxson. He put off seeking a coaching position until his children were older so the extensive travel would not put excess pressure on his family. After the departure of Jerry Sloan and Phil Johnson in February 2011, Jeff Hornacek became a full assistant coach with the Utah Jazz.[9]

For the season, the Suns improved by 23 victories upon the previous season's record, which led to a 48-34 record in Hornacek's first season as a head coach. This accomplishment lead to the Phoenix Suns becoming the most improved team during the 2013-14 NBA season. Despite the improvement, the Suns still missed the playoffs and Hornacek was the runner-up coach in the NBA Coach of the Year Award receiving 37 1st place votes. He lost to three time winner Gregg Popovich.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hornacek

As an assistant coach teaching AK47 to shoot, OK..Honacek is playing Melo for longer stretches than he has ever played in his career...One of the reasons he didn't play in GS is because he said he felt worn out...Every coach is trying to cut minutes of their older players to keep them fresh, Hornacek is doing the opposite...Melo physically looks like a different player this year...The best he looked in terms of movement was in Miami...Young coaches just want to win now, it will hurt us later...It's also a function of our bench..Phil plays a role in this too...

Your response is ridiculous - how can you say Hornacek has the same experience as Fisher, and be churlish about it when someone points out the actual facts? Hornacek has been an assistant coach and an actual coach- Fisher had not.
holfresh
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12/21/2016  1:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/21/2016  1:56 PM
smackeddog wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I like the 2 guard lineup because it allows Jennings to be the distributor that Rose hasnt been often this season, while letting Rose attack the rim, be part of a big three on offense, without the offense riding on Rose, and his ability to finish.

He occupies the space of a defender or a three point shooter who can spread the floor for our one on one players...We have three guys who can get a shot on their own...We don't need someone else to create for them...I would love to see Melo run more pick and role than anyone else..He is a great passer and he isn't being used enough in that role...Rose can be that creator as well when he gets comfortable with the offense and knows the team's habits..It is far more valuable to have Lee on the court than Jennings..I'll say this as well, people forget that Hornacek has the same experience as Fisher...He isn't a seasoned coach...


Hornacek has a bit more experience than Fisher did.

He was hired for the 2007–08 season by the Jazz as a special assistant coach and to help Andrei Kirilenko and others with their shooting.[7] In May 2008 Hornacek interviewed for a coaching position with the Chicago Bulls, meeting with general manager John Paxson. He put off seeking a coaching position until his children were older so the extensive travel would not put excess pressure on his family. After the departure of Jerry Sloan and Phil Johnson in February 2011, Jeff Hornacek became a full assistant coach with the Utah Jazz.[9]

For the season, the Suns improved by 23 victories upon the previous season's record, which led to a 48-34 record in Hornacek's first season as a head coach. This accomplishment lead to the Phoenix Suns becoming the most improved team during the 2013-14 NBA season. Despite the improvement, the Suns still missed the playoffs and Hornacek was the runner-up coach in the NBA Coach of the Year Award receiving 37 1st place votes. He lost to three time winner Gregg Popovich.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hornacek

As an assistant coach teaching AK47 to shoot, OK..Honacek is playing Melo for longer stretches than he has ever played in his career...One of the reasons he didn't play in GS is because he said he felt worn out...Every coach is trying to cut minutes of their older players to keep them fresh, Hornacek is doing the opposite...Melo physically looks like a different player this year...The best he looked in terms of movement was in Miami...Young coaches just want to win now, it will hurt us later...It's also a function of our bench..Phil plays a role in this too...

Your response is ridiculous - how can you say Hornacek has the same experience as Fisher, and be churlish about it when someone points out the actual facts? Hornacek has been an assistant coach and an actual coach- Fisher had not.

So the point of Hornacek coaching AK47 shooting skill as an actual valued transferable skill in his third year of coaching compared to Fisher at the same time is in itself ridiculous...And you latching on to such a concept is ridiculous...

And just to clarify any misinterpretations...I'm not saying Hornacek is a rookie coach like Fisher was..My point is that he is in his third year like Fisher would have been...So to hold up teaching AK47 as some coaching achievement is a bit puzzling...
Chandler
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12/21/2016  2:03 PM
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I like the 2 guard lineup because it allows Jennings to be the distributor that Rose hasnt been often this season, while letting Rose attack the rim, be part of a big three on offense, without the offense riding on Rose, and his ability to finish.

He occupies the space of a defender or a three point shooter who can spread the floor for our one on one players...We have three guys who can get a shot on their own...We don't need someone else to create for them...I would love to see Melo run more pick and role than anyone else..He is a great passer and he isn't being used enough in that role...Rose can be that creator as well when he gets comfortable with the offense and knows the team's habits..It is far more valuable to have Lee on the court than Jennings..I'll say this as well, people forget that Hornacek has the same experience as Fisher...He isn't a seasoned coach...


Hornacek has a bit more experience than Fisher did.

He was hired for the 2007–08 season by the Jazz as a special assistant coach and to help Andrei Kirilenko and others with their shooting.[7] In May 2008 Hornacek interviewed for a coaching position with the Chicago Bulls, meeting with general manager John Paxson. He put off seeking a coaching position until his children were older so the extensive travel would not put excess pressure on his family. After the departure of Jerry Sloan and Phil Johnson in February 2011, Jeff Hornacek became a full assistant coach with the Utah Jazz.[9]

For the season, the Suns improved by 23 victories upon the previous season's record, which led to a 48-34 record in Hornacek's first season as a head coach. This accomplishment lead to the Phoenix Suns becoming the most improved team during the 2013-14 NBA season. Despite the improvement, the Suns still missed the playoffs and Hornacek was the runner-up coach in the NBA Coach of the Year Award receiving 37 1st place votes. He lost to three time winner Gregg Popovich.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hornacek

As an assistant coach teaching AK47 to shoot, OK..Honacek is playing Melo for longer stretches than he has ever played in his career...One of the reasons he didn't play in GS is because he said he felt worn out...Every coach is trying to cut minutes of their older players to keep them fresh, Hornacek is doing the opposite...Melo physically looks like a different player this year...The best he looked in terms of movement was in Miami...Young coaches just want to win now, it will hurt us later...It's also a function of our bench..Phil plays a role in this too...

you need to get your facts straight. Melo said it was because of the funny fall he took diving after a ball (itself a testament to Hornacek

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holfresh
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12/21/2016  2:11 PM
Chandler wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I like the 2 guard lineup because it allows Jennings to be the distributor that Rose hasnt been often this season, while letting Rose attack the rim, be part of a big three on offense, without the offense riding on Rose, and his ability to finish.

He occupies the space of a defender or a three point shooter who can spread the floor for our one on one players...We have three guys who can get a shot on their own...We don't need someone else to create for them...I would love to see Melo run more pick and role than anyone else..He is a great passer and he isn't being used enough in that role...Rose can be that creator as well when he gets comfortable with the offense and knows the team's habits..It is far more valuable to have Lee on the court than Jennings..I'll say this as well, people forget that Hornacek has the same experience as Fisher...He isn't a seasoned coach...


Hornacek has a bit more experience than Fisher did.

He was hired for the 2007–08 season by the Jazz as a special assistant coach and to help Andrei Kirilenko and others with their shooting.[7] In May 2008 Hornacek interviewed for a coaching position with the Chicago Bulls, meeting with general manager John Paxson. He put off seeking a coaching position until his children were older so the extensive travel would not put excess pressure on his family. After the departure of Jerry Sloan and Phil Johnson in February 2011, Jeff Hornacek became a full assistant coach with the Utah Jazz.[9]

For the season, the Suns improved by 23 victories upon the previous season's record, which led to a 48-34 record in Hornacek's first season as a head coach. This accomplishment lead to the Phoenix Suns becoming the most improved team during the 2013-14 NBA season. Despite the improvement, the Suns still missed the playoffs and Hornacek was the runner-up coach in the NBA Coach of the Year Award receiving 37 1st place votes. He lost to three time winner Gregg Popovich.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hornacek

As an assistant coach teaching AK47 to shoot, OK..Honacek is playing Melo for longer stretches than he has ever played in his career...One of the reasons he didn't play in GS is because he said he felt worn out...Every coach is trying to cut minutes of their older players to keep them fresh, Hornacek is doing the opposite...Melo physically looks like a different player this year...The best he looked in terms of movement was in Miami...Young coaches just want to win now, it will hurt us later...It's also a function of our bench..Phil plays a role in this too...

you need to get your facts straight. Melo said it was because of the funny fall he took diving after a ball (itself a testament to Hornacek

We can make a side bet about what Breen said were the reasons he didn't play in GS..I'll also give odds..
holfresh
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12/21/2016  2:19 PM
^^^Anywy, the announcers said one of the reason along with his shoulder injury is that he feels worn out..I'm not going to make it up..
nixluva
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12/21/2016  6:29 PM
holfresh wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I like the 2 guard lineup because it allows Jennings to be the distributor that Rose hasnt been often this season, while letting Rose attack the rim, be part of a big three on offense, without the offense riding on Rose, and his ability to finish.

He occupies the space of a defender or a three point shooter who can spread the floor for our one on one players...We have three guys who can get a shot on their own...We don't need someone else to create for them...I would love to see Melo run more pick and role than anyone else..He is a great passer and he isn't being used enough in that role...Rose can be that creator as well when he gets comfortable with the offense and knows the team's habits..It is far more valuable to have Lee on the court than Jennings..I'll say this as well, people forget that Hornacek has the same experience as Fisher...He isn't a seasoned coach...


Hornacek has a bit more experience than Fisher did.

He was hired for the 2007–08 season by the Jazz as a special assistant coach and to help Andrei Kirilenko and others with their shooting.[7] In May 2008 Hornacek interviewed for a coaching position with the Chicago Bulls, meeting with general manager John Paxson. He put off seeking a coaching position until his children were older so the extensive travel would not put excess pressure on his family. After the departure of Jerry Sloan and Phil Johnson in February 2011, Jeff Hornacek became a full assistant coach with the Utah Jazz.[9]

For the season, the Suns improved by 23 victories upon the previous season's record, which led to a 48-34 record in Hornacek's first season as a head coach. This accomplishment lead to the Phoenix Suns becoming the most improved team during the 2013-14 NBA season. Despite the improvement, the Suns still missed the playoffs and Hornacek was the runner-up coach in the NBA Coach of the Year Award receiving 37 1st place votes. He lost to three time winner Gregg Popovich.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hornacek

As an assistant coach teaching AK47 to shoot, OK..Honacek is playing Melo for longer stretches than he has ever played in his career...One of the reasons he didn't play in GS is because he said he felt worn out...Every coach is trying to cut minutes of their older players to keep them fresh, Hornacek is doing the opposite...Melo physically looks like a different player this year...The best he looked in terms of movement was in Miami...Young coaches just want to win now, it will hurt us later...It's also a function of our bench..Phil plays a role in this too...

Your response is ridiculous - how can you say Hornacek has the same experience as Fisher, and be churlish about it when someone points out the actual facts? Hornacek has been an assistant coach and an actual coach- Fisher had not.

So the point of Hornacek coaching AK47 shooting skill as an actual valued transferable skill in his third year of coaching compared to Fisher at the same time is in itself ridiculous...And you latching on to such a concept is ridiculous...

And just to clarify any misinterpretations...I'm not saying Hornacek is a rookie coach like Fisher was..My point is that he is in his third year like Fisher would have been...So to hold up teaching AK47 as some coaching achievement is a bit puzzling...

You missed the time he spent as an Assistant coach starting in 2011. The point is that he had more time AFTER leaving the game to MATURE as well. Fish came right off the court. Also Jeff was the model Kerr used for how he wanted to coach the Warriors and he admitted that he stole a lot of plays from Jeff! I don't look at him as the same at all. Jeff is 53!!!
Chandler
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12/21/2016  6:30 PM
^^ he had a sore shoulder from diving to floor w his arm extended
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