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Game Thread: Road back home......Knicks Vs. Pacers
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SocraticBallin22
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12/20/2016  10:02 PM
crzymdups wrote:Gosh, I hope Rose can stay healthy. He unlocks the potential of this team. KP and Melo played great - and Rose wouldn't have had space without them - but they wouldn't have space without Rose. The big three all really complement one another. I feel like tonight was one of the first times you really saw that.

Nice to see Noah with a good effort, too.

Rose really is the straw that stirs the drink. What I saw tonight is when Rose is healthy and is a threat to beat his man off the dribble and score, it opens up all our 3 point shooters on the perimeter, and we do have a lot of them (Melo, KP, Lee, Holiday). If Rose stays healthy with this formula, we can light teams up on the perimeter like we did tonight in the 4th.

AUTOADVERT
yellowboy90
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12/20/2016  10:03 PM
I'm still not a fan of the two PGs closing the games because of their lack of 3ppt shooting and on most occasions suspect defense. Why not keep Lee or Holiday in?
NYKBocker
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12/20/2016  10:04 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:I'm still not a fan of the two PGs closing the games because of their lack of 3ppt shooting and on most occasions suspect defense. Why not keep Lee or Holiday in?

Same here. Would rather have Holiday but Lee would do.

SocraticBallin22
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12/20/2016  10:05 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:I'm still not a fan of the two PGs closing the games because of their lack of 3ppt shooting and on most occasions suspect defense. Why not keep Lee or Holiday in?

I have been saying that Jennings needs to close out games because he is one of the 5 best players on the roster, but I agree with you tonight. I loved what Holiday and Lee brought in the 3rd and 4th with their defense and 3 point shooting leading the comeback. I liked them playing together--made our perimeter D much stronger and they are legit 3 point threats. Would like to see more of them together with the small lineup spreading the court. Could be potent.

holfresh
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12/20/2016  10:06 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:I'm still not a fan of the two PGs closing the games because of their lack of 3ppt shooting and on most occasions suspect defense. Why not keep Lee or Holiday in?

I don't get it either..And it's not like the offense is running that much better..

crzymdups
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12/20/2016  10:08 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I'm still not a fan of the two PGs closing the games because of their lack of 3ppt shooting and on most occasions suspect defense. Why not keep Lee or Holiday in?

Same here. Would rather have Holiday but Lee would do.

Holiday had a great great game tonight. He always seems to be in the right place for a loose ball, make a big rebound, make the right pass, sink a quietly important fourth quarter bucket. He had a huge assist to Melo for the three that started Melo's hot streak when they were down 13. He also came up with a huge rebound that slipped through KP's hands in the 4th. He also had some good defensive one on one stops of PG13 in the 4th.

I like that guy a lot.

¿ △ ?
crzymdups
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12/20/2016  10:09 PM
SocraticBallin22 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I'm still not a fan of the two PGs closing the games because of their lack of 3ppt shooting and on most occasions suspect defense. Why not keep Lee or Holiday in?

I have been saying that Jennings needs to close out games because he is one of the 5 best players on the roster, but I agree with you tonight. I loved what Holiday and Lee brought in the 3rd and 4th with their defense and 3 point shooting leading the comeback. I liked them playing together--made our perimeter D much stronger and they are legit 3 point threats. Would like to see more of them together with the small lineup spreading the court. Could be potent.

Yeah, I love when Lee and Holiday are out there together - I think that was the lineup at the end of the third that took the Pacers lead down from 15 to 3 to end the quarter.

¿ △ ?
WaltLongmire
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12/20/2016  10:10 PM
SocraticBallin22 wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Pacers on the second night of a back to back also just ran out of gas in the 4th quarter.

Good point. Forgot about this. It did look like they ran out of gas in the 4th. Def a factor in this one.

It was also a very tough game...no chance to rest players- all their starters played 31+ minutes.

Don't like back to backs...glad they had one and not us.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
nixluva
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12/20/2016  10:13 PM
When Rose, Melo and KP get in rhythm due to better ball n player movement, this team is tough to deal with.
nyknickzingis
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12/20/2016  10:17 PM
SocraticBallin22 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:AND Noah woke up in the 4th. Why can't Noah play with that energy more often. That was the Noah who was worth 72 million.

Don't mind Noah playing only half the game as long as he brings the energy he did tonight every minute on the court. Also, he needs to be aggressive like he was tonight driving to the basket when teams are not guarding him.


Noah on the court has to be paired with the right group though.

In that 2nd half we were down 15 before Coach H deciced to go with O'Quinn and Melo as our bigs. It really helped. 4 smalls and a stretch 5 in O'Quinn. We changed how we were playing on BOTH ends. Then Noah came back and played fantastic defense. He was also better on offense because (wait for it) he didn't have to play with the starters. He even closed well.

That's the thing I keep saying. Noah can have major impact off the bench. But we can't keep playing the same starting 5. Even our closing lineup tonight, it was 2 point guards with Jennings/Rose and our usual starting front court. Something has to be done to change the way the starters play. They just don't seem to have good chemistry and in my opinion just enough team speed. This game changed once we went smaller and Melo to the 4. This is what we need to do. Either play a smaller quicker backcourt with Jennings/Rose more often. Or bring either KP or Noah off the bench (Noah preferably). The league is just too fast right now to be playing the starting 5 we are.

Here's what I suggest if Noah MUST start.

1- Bring KP at the 6 minute mark, and move Melo to 4 with Holiday coming in as a starter.
2- Replace Lee with Jennings. More team speed. More fastbreaks. More pressure on the ball defensively.

To me it has to be one of the above 2. The team has enough talent to be a 3rd or 4th seed in the East if they sort out how they use their rotations. The constant talk about slow starts on the road. Well it's all back to energy. Speed. When the offense starts to bog down into Melo or KP ball too much, the reason is that Noah simply is ineffective as a scorer, Lee isn't a shot creator and if Rose is not creating it will likely be a 1 on 1 play with Noah's man easily sinking to KP or Melo. Now instead if you have Jennings in place of Lee, you can push the ball more at ease and it gives you another dribble penetration and shot creating threat. Noah's lack of ability to score is a little negated because Jennings and Rose will constantly be trying to get into the paint and Noah's man will go help, leaving Noah open for layups (which is the one type of shot he is decent at making). Alternatively starting Holiday instead of KP is out of the box type of thinking move, but it can help as well if you're thinking about lineup effectiveness.

That is if Noah must start. The much simpler solution to me is to start O'Quinn, and use Noah off the bench. When Noah plays with the energy and effectiveness you like you close with him. When not, you give him only backup minutes.

I think the coaches and Phil are hoping Noah and Rose rediscover their Chicago chemistry. Which is not a bad idea, but if we want to do that we have to run the ball through Rose much much more than we are. We have to scrap most of the Triangle and most of the other sets we run and go much more Rose/Noah pick and rolls to start the offense. That and pray neither Rose or Noah get seriously hurt.

Anyway great come from behind win. Great game by Melo. What a shooting clinic. He played with a flow and freedom I really liked. Rose in this and the Laker game (last 2 healthy full games he's played) like a MVP level Rose. Guys weren't lieing when they said it. Rose looks like his old self. He's getting to the rim at will and with ease scoring in there. We need to run much much more pick and rolls with him and Noah and him and KP. Those are extremely effective.

StarksEwing1
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12/20/2016  10:19 PM
nixluva wrote:When Rose, Melo and KP get in rhythm due to better ball n player movement, this team is tough to deal with.
the issue is consistency. Can we see this type of play for 15-20 games straight? Thats the big question
nyknickzingis
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12/20/2016  10:19 PM
I love that KP played pretty bad most of the night and then stepped up late and wound up with all-star stats - 21 points 8 boards 3 blocks. That's pretty much what a star can do. Look bad much of the night and then still wind up having a good looking statistical game. He's got it man. He really has it. He's all about the W's as well. You can see it in his eyes he doesn't like to lose at all, and won't even smile when the team is down. Great kid. Had an injury scare and just walked it off. Tough kid. Wonder whether it'll hurt him in the future though.
yellowboy90
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12/20/2016  10:20 PM
crzymdups wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I'm still not a fan of the two PGs closing the games because of their lack of 3ppt shooting and on most occasions suspect defense. Why not keep Lee or Holiday in?

Same here. Would rather have Holiday but Lee would do.

Holiday had a great great game tonight. He always seems to be in the right place for a loose ball, make a big rebound, make the right pass, sink a quietly important fourth quarter bucket. He had a huge assist to Melo for the three that started Melo's hot streak when they were down 13. He also came up with a huge rebound that slipped through KP's hands in the 4th. He also had some good defensive one on one stops of PG13 in the 4th.

I like that guy a lot.

He is out performing my expectations by a hige margin. I didn't believe in his shooting to close the year for the Bulls but it seems to have carried over. I hope it continues. Things will get more confusing for me if he keep up his good year because that means they have to give him a Lance type contract and Lance really is not helping things with his showing thus far. ATL are going through a similar situation with Bazemore but to a higher degree.

BigRedDog
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12/20/2016  10:20 PM
SocraticBallin22 wrote:This should be our blueprint going forward: let Noah and Jennings break down the defense, get in the paint, and kick it out to our 3 point shooters--Melo, KP, Lee, Holiday, Lance

Lance??? really???

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
SocraticBallin22
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12/20/2016  10:26 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:This should be our blueprint going forward: let Noah and Jennings break down the defense, get in the paint, and kick it out to our 3 point shooters--Melo, KP, Lee, Holiday, Lance

Lance??? really???

Yeah. Lance was a real good 3 point shooter last year. One of the best in the league. Don't know what happened this year. lol

nyknickzingis
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12/20/2016  10:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/20/2016  10:33 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:When Rose, Melo and KP get in rhythm due to better ball n player movement, this team is tough to deal with.
the issue is consistency. Can we see this type of play for 15-20 games straight? Thats the big question

To be fair, Rose has been injured and had come into the season missing most of camp due to the trial.

For the last 10-15 games that Rose has played the Knicks have looked real good with him and Melo. Take away the games Rose was injured - or played only a few minutes in.

Pacers - W
@ Lakers - W
Kings - W
Wolves - W
@ Wolves - W
Thunder - L
@ Hornets - L
Hornets - W
Blazers - W
Hawks - W

We're 8-2 in the last 10 games Rose has played (taking away 2 games he barely played with back spasms). In those 10 games Rose has averaged 20 points a game. KP's averaging 20 as well. This means in these games we're getting 3 players who gives us 20 or more a night.

More than anything, it seems Jennings off the bench is a completely different impact player than when he starts. I really would have liked to see us with a healthy Rose play against Cleveland and the Golden State road game. For sure both still likely losses, but I think much different games in how they are played out and competed.

The key for Rose is health. If he can stay healthy, he looks like a legitimate all-star point guard. With Rose breaking down defenses, Porzingis hovering up high as a double threat both as a 3 point shooter and driver, with Melo at the wing, Lee at the corner. I tell you not many teams will know how to defend that. All that's missing is a 5th guy that can give you offense there. We've been getting hurt with Noah's ineffectiveness. If Noah can be involved more in pick and rolls and the roll man, on Rose dribble penetration, it's going to be very interesting to see this team play. Rose's last 10 full games show how much of an impact Rose/KP/Melo have together.

CrushAlot
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12/20/2016  10:42 PM
SocraticBallin22 wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:This should be our blueprint going forward: let Noah and Jennings break down the defense, get in the paint, and kick it out to our 3 point shooters--Melo, KP, Lee, Holiday, Lance

Lance??? really???

Yeah. Lance was a real good 3 point shooter last year. One of the best in the league. Don't know what happened this year. lol

He has been hurt and has plantar fasciitis in both feet.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
WaltLongmire
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12/20/2016  10:51 PM
crzymdups wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I'm still not a fan of the two PGs closing the games because of their lack of 3ppt shooting and on most occasions suspect defense. Why not keep Lee or Holiday in?

Same here. Would rather have Holiday but Lee would do.

Holiday had a great great game tonight. He always seems to be in the right place for a loose ball, make a big rebound, make the right pass, sink a quietly important fourth quarter bucket. He had a huge assist to Melo for the three that started Melo's hot streak when they were down 13. He also came up with a huge rebound that slipped through KP's hands in the 4th. He also had some good defensive one on one stops of PG13 in the 4th.

I like that guy a lot.


Holiday is just a baller... He's not outstanding in any one area, but he can do a lot of things well. I thought he was just a D & 3 guy, but he has a pretty well-rounded game, moves well without the ball, and you can see that he's a competitor.

He's been a pleasant surprise.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
nixluva
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12/20/2016  11:02 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I'm still not a fan of the two PGs closing the games because of their lack of 3ppt shooting and on most occasions suspect defense. Why not keep Lee or Holiday in?

Same here. Would rather have Holiday but Lee would do.

Holiday had a great great game tonight. He always seems to be in the right place for a loose ball, make a big rebound, make the right pass, sink a quietly important fourth quarter bucket. He had a huge assist to Melo for the three that started Melo's hot streak when they were down 13. He also came up with a huge rebound that slipped through KP's hands in the 4th. He also had some good defensive one on one stops of PG13 in the 4th.

I like that guy a lot.


Holiday is just a baller... He's not outstanding in any one area, but he can do a lot of things well. I thought he was just a D & 3 guy, but he has a pretty well-rounded game, moves well without the ball, and you can see that he's a competitor.

He's been a pleasant surprise.

He just needed an opportunity. He has all the physical tools, work ethic and BB IQ. I actually did think he was going to be good. He seemed to play well whenever he got good minutes and he's continued that here. Now he's confident and knows his role.

CrushAlot
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12/20/2016  11:04 PM
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Game Thread: Road back home......Knicks Vs. Pacers

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