[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Can Expiring contracts run, shoot and rebound?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Nalod
Posts: 68748
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
8/9/2004  9:27 AM
Over and over I keep reading about "expiring contracts"!

Expiring contracts cannot rebound, shoot or block shots! Expiring contracts like the ones we just traded means we can dump them for players whom have even bigger contracts. And its a player the team does not want or need. HOw long can we be over 100% over the cap? It just can't be a successful model. Over the long term. YOu can buy yourself out of trouble short term, but cannot spiral up payroll over and over.

Isiah has done a very good job getting them competitive. Dolan will always make sure they are a financial success before going all the way, sucking it up, and install the building blocks of the highes caliber. Rebuilding has its degrees of risk, that is why its much easier to build a PRETENDER tan a true contender. THey need to be on tv and fill the seats. The methoed we go about it just does not build in such a way.

Yes its better than Laydog, we have some youth, some vets, and a far more interesting and competitive team, but it cost a ton to rid ourselves of last years disaster, but think about the expiring contract concept and how it really works.

We now have an ok core, so we must continue to bring in youthful players with potential and cultivate that talent to REPLACE the expiring deals. If Azira is good, we will need to resign him with a raise. The same with Sweets. They won't get the dumb Penny money, but they get nice raises if they turn out.
AUTOADVERT
eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
8/9/2004  10:26 AM
Expiring contracts played a part in getting us Marbury. Expiring contracts alone got us Jamal Crawford.

The TrailBlazers got Shareef and Ratliff for Rasheed's expiring deal.

The Pistons got Rasheed for a bunch of expiring contracts.

There's probably more, but those 5 players (Marbury, Crawford, Shareef, Ratliff and Rasheed) were all acquired with primarily expiring deals last season. Hey, I understand it's not Garnett or Duncan, but let's be serious - the way the current CBA is set up, it's virtually impossible to get a player like that in a trade or even as a straight up free agent. It seems the only way is to draft one and we all know that the top draft picks aren't always a lock to succeed.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/9/2004  10:27 AM
Yes, if used properly, expiring contracts can address any need a team has. In the past few months we've seen them used to get Marbury, Rasheed Wallace, Abdur-Rahim, Theo Ratliff, and Jamal Crawford

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/09/2004 10:30:47]
GoNyGoNyGo
Posts: 23559
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/29/2003
Member: #411
USA
8/9/2004  11:33 AM
They are fact of operating a franchise in todays NBA. ALL TEAMS do it. Teams that are looking to build sell expiring contracts for players who have long deals but that will make them better. This is admittedly a gamble. There are no guarantees in life. What Dumars did was the same thing that Isiah is doing now. He is taking a chance on Marbury, Crawfor and hopefully Dampier. He is betting NY will be a team that can get close enough to winning where a single deal or MLE move puts them over the top. Ie Rasheed going to Detroit. Detroit was in good shape Capwise and now they are not. They are not the Knicks but neither can they afford to be.

IT is taking a gamble that the long term deals will payoff as the Knicks will have the next 5-7 years to put enough pieces together to win. If not, it blows up again and you rbuild again. NY is rebuilding on the fly. There is no arguing the talent is much better just as their is no arguing that the payout is much more. Its a gamble. Getting young and cheap does not necessarily work either, see LA Clips, Bulls, hawks, magic, GS,etc... That is a gamble too.

IT has chosen the pay $$ gamble because he is in NY and NY can afford it. The youth we have given up has been inconsequential thus far. Only Lampe has been the one guy that may come back to hurt. Right now Crawford is better than FWill and just as young. Vujanic will not play in the NBA again this year. So forget him.

NY has youth now in Sweetney, Crawford, Ariza and Mid youth with TT, Marbury, Damps (? if they get him), Nazr. Vets with H20,KT, Bker, Hardaway, anderson, Norris. Not a bad mixture and I bet IT will be trying to get them even younger and more athletic yet. He has stated that is his goal, so paying $$ for longterm athletic younger players is not that bad of a gamble. It is better than giving $$ to a 30 year old SG, a overrated SG (andeson), a horrible pg (eisley) ala Scott Layden, in my humble opinion of course.
raven
Posts: 22454
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #316
Canada
8/9/2004  11:43 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Over and over I keep reading about "expiring contracts"!

Expiring contracts cannot rebound, shoot or block shots! Expiring contracts like the ones we just traded means we can dump them for players whom have even bigger contracts. And its a player the team does not want or need. HOw long can we be over 100% over the cap? It just can't be a successful model. Over the long term. YOu can buy yourself out of trouble short term, but cannot spiral up payroll over and over.

Isiah has done a very good job getting them competitive. Dolan will always make sure they are a financial success before going all the way, sucking it up, and install the building blocks of the highes caliber. Rebuilding has its degrees of risk, that is why its much easier to build a PRETENDER tan a true contender. THey need to be on tv and fill the seats. The methoed we go about it just does not build in such a way.

Yes its better than Laydog, we have some youth, some vets, and a far more interesting and competitive team, but it cost a ton to rid ourselves of last years disaster, but think about the expiring contract concept and how it really works.

We now have an ok core, so we must continue to bring in youthful players with potential and cultivate that talent to REPLACE the expiring deals. If Azira is good, we will need to resign him with a raise. The same with Sweets. They won't get the dumb Penny money, but they get nice raises if they turn out.

Great post nalod.

Expiring contracts should be used to get us what we can get through the draft or common trades. That's what IT did, kudos for what he did in a so short time.
Nalod
Posts: 68748
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
8/9/2004  12:24 PM
my point is some folks keep saying the team is even gonna do much more as we have expiring contracts next year. My point is you take back bigger contracts.

Detroit was under the cap. Atl wanted to get under.

I listen to when writers hate on the knicks and the cap to LEARN about our weekness for future moves and how we can and cannot do certain things.

I don't expect to ever be under, just not 100-150% over.

Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/9/2004  1:41 PM
I listen to when writers hate on the knicks and the cap to LEARN about our weekness for future moves and how we can and cannot do certain things.
me no follow your English
fishmike
Posts: 53149
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
8/9/2004  1:41 PM
Isiah succeeded in a mojor talent upgrade of this roster in a short time using only one asset; MSG's cash. Even thats not enough... its one thing to be willing to spend, but you have to get other partys to work with you. Expiring contracts represent the opportunity to use cash to aquire players.

NY will always overpay for core players. All NY sports (except football with the hard cap) have exceeded market value in their players. Yankees, Mets, Rangers, Knicks... they are all the same in this regard.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/9/2004  1:51 PM
Posted by Nalod:

my point is some folks keep saying the team is even gonna do much more as we have expiring contracts next year. My point is you take back bigger contracts.
That's fine with me. The Knicks will always be up there with the Lakers as the most profitable franchises in basketball.
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
8/9/2004  2:11 PM
The issue is whether or not next year's expiring contracts can bring back a superstar big man in his prime. If they can, the cap becomes less important. If they can't, the Knicks need to get under the cap when Houston's contract expires.
Nalod
Posts: 68748
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
8/9/2004  3:14 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Nalod:

my point is some folks keep saying the team is even gonna do much more as we have expiring contracts next year. My point is you take back bigger contracts.
That's fine with me. The Knicks will always be up there with the Lakers as the most profitable franchises in basketball.

The lakers do not run up their cap excessivly like we do.

Your assuming we always will replace expiring contracts with new and longer ones. We need not get under, but it cannot be expected to keep running it up higher and higher. I know as a fan we'd like to think Isiah is god like, but he simply buying his way out. Or simply going were no other GM has ever gone before.

Star (phuching) Trek!
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/9/2004  3:33 PM
Posted by Rich:

The issue is whether or not next year's expiring contracts can bring back a superstar big man in his prime.
They brought back Marbury last year and next year there will be more valuable expiring contracts from better players (TT and Penny and Nazy are players who can not only help team's gain cap space but can ALSO help teams win and can re-sign for significantly less the following season). I see no reason why the expiring contracts next summer won't give us a player *at least* as good as the inferior contracts/players we used to get Marbury.
(BTW, of course the Knicks are going to let *some* of their expiring contracts expire. No one here is saying they will use every one of their expiring contracts to get star players.)
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
8/9/2004  3:47 PM
You mean he's not a God? You mean taking back $170 million in contracts for 4 players (Marbury, Penny, Crawford and JYD), giving up multiple first rd picks and trading away promising young players actually had something to do with it and it wasn't just getting rid of expiring contracts.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
Posts: 53149
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
8/9/2004  3:53 PM
ahh yes.... more great input and sharing of basketball knowledge.

Rich said it best, if TT, or Penny or Nazr's contracts can be used as part of a deal to get a star bigman/post player then the cap is a non issue, as is the flexibility.

On paper this team is so much more talented than last year's opening roster its not even funny. The thing you cant predict is if these guys make each other better. Thats on the coaching staff.

First talent, then chemistry.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/9/2004  3:54 PM
God? No. A good candidate for GM of the Year? I bet he will be as long as key players stay healthy.
simrud
Posts: 23392
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/13/2003
Member: #474
USA
8/9/2004  3:57 PM
Look if the expiring contracts can bring a star bigman then who cares if we are under the cap or not. With a lowpost threat this team is a title contender. If they don't, then guess what, they expire because they are not traded. So this whole agrument has no point. You are critisizing Iseah for somethign he has not done yet, chill out. And if you say that the Craw trade was bad, then just think about it again, 2 years from now, when you are going to have a star 26 year old SG gettin paid 8 mil a year, a freakin bargain.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
codeunknown
Posts: 22615
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 7/14/2004
Member: #704
8/9/2004  4:08 PM
A lot of you seem to like expiring contracts. Personally, I think they have been used well by Isiah to date but don't need to relied on in the future. But, here's the question. If Dampier is acquired in a sign and trade and we still have the midlevel exception remaining, would any of you just sign any garbage player to a 1-year deal so we could use the expiring contract at the deadline?
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/9/2004  4:45 PM
Posted by codeunknown:

A lot of you seem to like expiring contracts. Personally, I think they have been used well by Isiah to date but don't need to relied on in the future. But, here's the question. If Dampier is acquired in a sign and trade and we still have the midlevel exception remaining, would any of you just sign any garbage player to a 1-year deal so we could use the expiring contract at the deadline?
I don't think one $5 mil expiring contract is as valuable as using the MLE on two key players like Baker and Keon Clark would be (if Dampier is obtained via sign and trade, which I do not expect to happen).
fishmike
Posts: 53149
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
8/9/2004  4:49 PM
well if we got Dampier in a sign and trade it looks like Isiah is commited to resigning Baker w/ the MLE.

The ideal thing to me would be to sign Dampier for KT/Nazr. That starts Dampier at about $10mm which is grossly overpaying, HOWEVER, the upside to that deal is it probably means Sweetney starts at PF, which to me in itself if worth overpaying Dampier.

Then you start Sweetney/Dampier at 4/5 and have Baker, JYD playing behind them. I LOVE that rotation for this team much more than I like the depth (and less talent) we have now.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/9/2004  4:56 PM
The Warriors already have a bunch of decent role players at PF/C. I can't picture them taking $40 mil in additional contracts for role players they don't need. If I were Mullin, the only Knicks I'd be interested in are Marbury, Sweetney, and Ariza. (They have J-Rich and Pietrus and don't need Crawford)
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Can Expiring contracts run, shoot and rebound?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy