http://www.si.com/nba/2016/12/06/jayson-williams-charles-oakley-rehabiliation-addiction

I really wish he was involved with the Knicks still. The team needs his toughness and game smarts.

Nalod wrote:Great article.
Lets get a few things straight about Oak: the man talks straight and in a way he is not fit to work inside an organization. He was part of Hornets and after a bad back had to quit coaching. Seemingly there was no other role for him. WIth knicks, he called out Dolan and its not really a bad thing, but anyone that calls out a perspective employer is not endearing themselves to them.
Oak was a player, then traded from knicks. He was respected, then moved on. That does not make him bound to the team, and visa versa. Its a buisness. He was employed by Knicks.

So what Can Oak bring to knicks? Teach toughness? How you do that? Can he coach? Does he even want to? Im all for him being recognized but reality is fans love him, he has businesses outside of basketball, he is a semi celebrity but other than "being oak", what can he bring to a basketball team other than no bullshyt. Honestly, pro sports is full of it!!!

I like Oak, and Im sure he wants to be respected for what he has done, but he has!! Fans love him, respect him even if Dolan does not. In fact, Dolan might, but there are many players he might respect but does he have to hire them? Ewing has wanted in for years. Oak lives in Clevelend and if he had a tangible offering, why not with the Cav's? or back with the Hornets and "Mike"? Does he really want to be a community liaison signing autographs and working with youth in schools? He can do that, or anything else outside of Knicks or any team. Oak needs no team to identify him.

So Oak can be Oak, fans can still love him, and maybe he can turn this celeb Chef thing into a money maker for himself!

Dont remember Oak trying to force his way out of NY like Ewing did mid season. That was the start of a lot of bad years for the franchise. What could Oak do? Put the fear of God into anyone who doesnt play hard, lol. IDK.

He would be a fan favorite. Oakley was very good at making a difference with very limited mobility, wasn't just effort. Might be able to share some of his tricks.

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Great article.
Lets get a few things straight about Oak: the man talks straight and in a way he is not fit to work inside an organization. He was part of Hornets and after a bad back had to quit coaching. Seemingly there was no other role for him. WIth knicks, he called out Dolan and its not really a bad thing, but anyone that calls out a perspective employer is not endearing themselves to them.
Oak was a player, then traded from knicks. He was respected, then moved on. That does not make him bound to the team, and visa versa. Its a buisness. He was employed by Knicks.

So what Can Oak bring to knicks? Teach toughness? How you do that? Can he coach? Does he even want to? Im all for him being recognized but reality is fans love him, he has businesses outside of basketball, he is a semi celebrity but other than "being oak", what can he bring to a basketball team other than no bullshyt. Honestly, pro sports is full of it!!!

I like Oak, and Im sure he wants to be respected for what he has done, but he has!! Fans love him, respect him even if Dolan does not. In fact, Dolan might, but there are many players he might respect but does he have to hire them? Ewing has wanted in for years. Oak lives in Clevelend and if he had a tangible offering, why not with the Cav's? or back with the Hornets and "Mike"? Does he really want to be a community liaison signing autographs and working with youth in schools? He can do that, or anything else outside of Knicks or any team. Oak needs no team to identify him.

So Oak can be Oak, fans can still love him, and maybe he can turn this celeb Chef thing into a money maker for himself!

Dont remember Oak trying to force his way out of NY like Ewing did mid season. That was the start of a lot of bad years for the franchise. What could Oak do? Put the fear of God into anyone who doesnt play hard, lol. IDK.

He would be a fan favorite. Oakley was very good at making a difference with very limited mobility, wasn't just effort. Might be able to share some of his tricks.

I didn't say he forced his wayout, or anything suggesting he was anything but a great player. He was traded for Camby, a taller faster player in a league that was going that way.
Can't keep him around just cuz he was oak.
He tried coaching. He didn't go back to it. How else he going to "teach toughness and tricks"? Its not like bringing in Reggie in spring training for a few weeks.

If Oak wants another shot, I hope the Knicks give him one. Not like we have a dream team of assistant coaches right now,

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Great article.
Lets get a few things straight about Oak: the man talks straight and in a way he is not fit to work inside an organization. He was part of Hornets and after a bad back had to quit coaching. Seemingly there was no other role for him. WIth knicks, he called out Dolan and its not really a bad thing, but anyone that calls out a perspective employer is not endearing themselves to them.
Oak was a player, then traded from knicks. He was respected, then moved on. That does not make him bound to the team, and visa versa. Its a buisness. He was employed by Knicks.

So what Can Oak bring to knicks? Teach toughness? How you do that? Can he coach? Does he even want to? Im all for him being recognized but reality is fans love him, he has businesses outside of basketball, he is a semi celebrity but other than "being oak", what can he bring to a basketball team other than no bullshyt. Honestly, pro sports is full of it!!!

I like Oak, and Im sure he wants to be respected for what he has done, but he has!! Fans love him, respect him even if Dolan does not. In fact, Dolan might, but there are many players he might respect but does he have to hire them? Ewing has wanted in for years. Oak lives in Clevelend and if he had a tangible offering, why not with the Cav's? or back with the Hornets and "Mike"? Does he really want to be a community liaison signing autographs and working with youth in schools? He can do that, or anything else outside of Knicks or any team. Oak needs no team to identify him.

So Oak can be Oak, fans can still love him, and maybe he can turn this celeb Chef thing into a money maker for himself!

Dont remember Oak trying to force his way out of NY like Ewing did mid season. That was the start of a lot of bad years for the franchise. What could Oak do? Put the fear of God into anyone who doesnt play hard, lol. IDK.

He would be a fan favorite. Oakley was very good at making a difference with very limited mobility, wasn't just effort. Might be able to share some of his tricks.

I didn't say he forced his wayout, or anything suggesting he was anything but a great player. He was traded for Camby, a taller faster player in a league that was going that way.
Can't keep him around just cuz he was oak.
He tried coaching. He didn't go back to it. How else he going to "teach toughness and tricks"? Its not like bringing in Reggie in spring training for a few weeks.

If Oak wants another shot, I hope the Knicks give him one. Not like we have a dream team of assistant coaches right now,

I don't get what your saying, your insinuating he'd be great. Like Mick from "Rocky" great? Teach toughness? Teach Heart?
Teach how to get paid if a friend don't pay you back? Oak is a great dude but his legend is also bigger than his reality.
Not that he did anything less, but his biggest attribute as a player was a high motor, great desire and a will to play hard! He came from a small school and did what it took to succeeded.
How can you fully say our assistants are not doing a good job, or even a bad job? Rambis as an assistant in LA had championships won. Also a player. He is more qualified than Oak in fact.

You are certainly relentless in defending one of the worst coaches in NBA history. Not hyberbole. I would take Oak over Rambis, or Herb Williams any day of the week. WTF did they teach except losing?

You have awfully high standards for someone who keeps defending one of the worst coaches in NBA history, who once again proved that last season. I Dont believe there is anything Rambis can do as a coach that you wont defend. You were all for bringing him back. The defense is still at the bottom of the league. Not even sure why Im even trying.

Nalod wrote:Kurt Rambis has eight rings. 4 as a player, 4 as exec/assistant coach.
He was been a role/support player and the same as assistant exec and coach.
Not head coaching material.
Oak had a stint with Bobcats. He is legend.

The only thing that can be proven IMO is his role as a player. I keep hearing he was the defensive mastermind of Phil's Laker championships. Someone with this pedigree should have been able to prove that ability as a head coach, never mind the offense.

Should have been able to get his teams post Lakers to play if not elite defense, good defense, or just plain respectable defense. His teams were consistently at the bottom of the league.

When Phil gave Rambis yet another chance to coach again, he kept riding Melo like it was a playoff push, even after we were eliminated from the playoffs.

Dont remember one player vouching for Rambis for the head coaching job. If they had any respect for him as a coach on any level, I believe he would have received some kind of an endorsement.

This franchise has sucked in part because Dolan likes to keep yes men in positions of power like Mills. Could not get a job in the NBA after he left the Knicks the last time. Rambis was one of the worst coaches in NBA history after he left the Lakers, yet Phil keeps giving him one title after another. Tried to give him yet another head coaching gig, before the pushback.

I'm tired of seeing the same retreads get one job after another in this organization. The Knicks can do better, they have to if they want to contend.

I would rather give a former Knick great (a much better player than Rambis) a chance to join the organization than Phil giving Rambis one chance after another, and hearing from posters about his Laker days sitting next to Phil, as if that makes the losing easier.

Next to Jeannie, Rambis is Phil's best buddy. Thats great for Rambis to have a friend who keeps finding jobs for you no matter how much you suck, but its not doing the Knicks any good.

Nalod wrote:Rambis 24-13 in strike short season as head coach. Then Phil came back.
Rambis made an awful mistake to take Twolves job and work for Kahn and his idiot draft results.
He was hired to install the triangle for a very young team led by Johnny Flynn. Wrong player, and injury problems to boot.
That said, I AGREE WITH YOU REGARDING HIM BEING HEAD COACHING MATERIAL. But I don't base my opinions on hearsay and I read alot but I don't agree that he was inline to get the head gig because phil does not work that transparently. perhaps your confusing "Crony loyalty" with "Trusted colleague". Phil knew Rambis would do as he said and perhaps it was understood that if he performed a miricle turnaround he'd be considered for the job going forward. Rambis took over a dysfunctional team, which is in part why fish was fired. So its not like "Rambis blew it".
The camp was right after the season ended. PHil ran it.
Was Rambis job opportunity tainted by exit interviews with phil? Could be. Could that lack of support factor into Phils decision? I would expect it would. Did phil interview different people? Yep, and he did not make it a public spectacle so fans were left to think we were getting Rambis.

One more time. I think Rambis is an organizational guy, not head coach material. Is he a loyalist like Herb? I don't know. Does he have success (cred) as a player? Yes. He was a hard working guy who had a long career as a "Glue guy" supporting some great teams. Kind of like Oak, but was with "Showtime" not the Smash mouth knicks as were the knicks. The simple fact is Rambis is not the reason why his laker teams won 4 rings as a player, but the dude was major part of the formula. As an exec, he was part of the machine that won. That is an great experience and learning opportunity. Three rings as an assistant coach is impressive. I can see loyalty letting him stay on after the first year as he was replaced by phil, but after that you have to earn your chops. ANd Phil thought enough of him that he wanted him in NY. Say what you want about phil the executive, but Phil the coach is indisputable.

So I'll finish by saying I'll pick Phils acumen to hire Rambis as an assistant coach over your impression of him. I'm basing mine not on him as a failed head coach on dysfunctional rosters but as an assistant coach with proven track record. The only litmus test of sorts would be to put Rambis as a coach of a good team and see if he maintains or improves on it. But thats not what we talking about. We talking the timberwolves. Also, he has not demonstrated head coaching communication skills that have worked or impressed anyone. And while trusted by Phil, he did not pick him as head coach! If it was true that Hornacek met with him and had his choice to bring him aboard or not, then he too felt comfortable with Rambis as well. Fisher I believe was not given that choice. Hornacek of objected could have either said "no" or not taken the job if it was enough of a problem for him.

So I don't get what your arguing other than your professed love for Oak, which I do have for the man but not like some super hero that some paint him as. Somehow that having an out spoken guy who is good at being critical of what is wrong but no quantifiable measure to qualify that he'd be successful implementing or fixing what he is in fact being critical of.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/charles-oakley-confirms-that-he-has-a-head--and-hates-the-modern-nba-183205441.html

What we don't know is does Charles Oakley even want to work for an NBA team, and in what capacity? He "has a head" and nalod likes his outspokenness, but that does not make him effective. He is an independant man who has his businesses and a lot of freedom to run it as he wishes and ability for self expression. When you work for others, you don't have the kind of freedom.

Getting swept in the second round with the talent they had isn't really something to hang your hat on IMO, Del Harris got to the conference finals.

My point is hardly that Oak is a superhero. My point is that given the fact that Rambis has accomplished nothing in the NBA on any level post Lakers. Has done absolutely nothing for the Knicks since joining the organization. Does not seem to be particularly popular with the players, yet is still given one opportunity after another by Phil as if he is the only assistant on the bench. I cant understand the objection to a former Knick being hired if he is looking for an opportunity.

Not suggesting an all out recruitment. If Oak wanted a job, I would like to see him get one. Having Oak as one more asst coach is more palatable to me than Rambis getting preferential treatment yet again. More loyal to an ex-Knick than an ex Laker who has done nothing for this franchise.

If Rambis is really an organizational guy, than Phil should give him a front office postion, make him the assistant to the traveling secretary, IDK. If he really has the skills to be a good exec, I would have prefered that Phil gave him a shot in the front office. I believe he's had more than enough time to prove his worth as a coach, on any level.

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:yeah, lets bring Oak in to teach '90's "tricks" to today's players. Would those tricks include air balling open j's from the foul line? I loved Oak, he was the perfect PF for those Knick teams in an era when kicking azz was tolerated, but his time and obviously the game has past his archetype by. What, no love from Chicago, or Toronto? They employed Oak! Don't they know they need a "toughness coach"?

He's been pissed off at the Knicks for not bringing him back, in any capacity. Tough darts farmer, you're not MSG material based on that fact alone.

Dear Jimmy:
Please make Charles Oakley the special defensive coach for any games we happen to play under the rules from 20 years ago.
Please fire Horny now and bring in Patrick Ewing as head coach for life.
Please find whatever rock Spree is hiding under from the IRS and have him be the life skills coach for all our yoots.

Sounds like it was written by one of Trump's speechwriters, holy ****. We're talking about a spot on the bench, not the keys to the kingdom. Thats reserved for your boy Rambis, right?

WE are all fanboy's of Oak, what we are saying is former NBA players just can't teach what they were as players. You make assumptions that Oak can just teach "OAK" to players.

I believe Oak would not be in todays NBA.

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:yeah, lets bring Oak in to teach '90's "tricks" to today's players. Would those tricks include air balling open j's from the foul line? I loved Oak, he was the perfect PF for those Knick teams in an era when kicking azz was tolerated, but his time and obviously the game has past his archetype by. What, no love from Chicago, or Toronto? They employed Oak! Don't they know they need a "toughness coach"?

He's been pissed off at the Knicks for not bringing him back, in any capacity. Tough darts farmer, you're not MSG material based on that fact alone.

Dear Jimmy:
Please make Charles Oakley the special defensive coach for any games we happen to play under the rules from 20 years ago.
Please fire Horny now and bring in Patrick Ewing as head coach for life.
Please find whatever rock Spree is hiding under from the IRS and have him be the life skills coach for all our yoots.

Sounds like it was written by one of Trump's speechwriters, holy ****. We're talking about a spot on the bench, not the keys to the kingdom. Thats reserved for your boy Rambis, right?

Holy shit thou HillaryHumper, and I didn't even vote for Trump! And where did the keys to the kingdom come in?

As has been pointed out already, Rambis has a rather lengthy resume and doesn't spend time in public shitting on and/or near his possible food/water supply. And he's not my boy, anyway. I'm not enthralled with Rambis in any capacity, but compared to Oak, he's fuhucquing Red Auerbach!

And actually, my speech is about 3 of my favorite Knicks of all time, but I've never understood the idea that ex-players should always have carte blanche to the bench or to the organization. Jimmie's had Starks and H20 and some others involved in the franchise in some capacity or another, but if you're a brooding, complaining type with some sort of enablement/ego problem, I'm guessing this organization can really only stand one of those, and he signs the checks.

Ewing was offered the same slot that Phil Jackson started out in. That wasn't good enough for him.

Oak is just an old nut at this point in time who barks at the media when the mood hits him I guess. You can't go job hunting with the same attitude you used on Zo Mourning.

I can't wait; in a few years we'll have the "Dolan should give JR Smith a shot as the step-back J shooting coach" thread...

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:yeah, lets bring Oak in to teach '90's "tricks" to today's players. Would those tricks include air balling open j's from the foul line? I loved Oak, he was the perfect PF for those Knick teams in an era when kicking azz was tolerated, but his time and obviously the game has past his archetype by. What, no love from Chicago, or Toronto? They employed Oak! Don't they know they need a "toughness coach"?

He's been pissed off at the Knicks for not bringing him back, in any capacity. Tough darts farmer, you're not MSG material based on that fact alone.

Dear Jimmy:
Please make Charles Oakley the special defensive coach for any games we happen to play under the rules from 20 years ago.
Please fire Horny now and bring in Patrick Ewing as head coach for life.
Please find whatever rock Spree is hiding under from the IRS and have him be the life skills coach for all our yoots.

Sounds like it was written by one of Trump's speechwriters, holy ****. We're talking about a spot on the bench, not the keys to the kingdom. Thats reserved for your boy Rambis, right?

Holy shit thou HillaryHumper, and I didn't even vote for Trump! And where did the keys to the kingdom come in?

As has been pointed out already, Rambis has a rather lengthy resume and doesn't spend time in public shitting on and/or near his possible food/water supply. And he's not my boy, anyway. I'm not enthralled with Rambis in any capacity, but compared to Oak, he's fuhucquing Red Auerbach!

And actually, my speech is about 3 of my favorite Knicks of all time, but I've never understood the idea that ex-players should always have carte blanche to the bench or to the organization. Jimmie's had Starks and H20 and some others involved in the franchise in some capacity or another, but if you're a brooding, complaining type with some sort of enablement/ego problem, I'm guessing this organization can really only stand one of those, and he signs the checks.

Ewing was offered the same slot that Phil Jackson started out in. That wasn't good enough for him.

Oak is just an old nut at this point in time who barks at the media when the mood hits him I guess. You can't go job hunting with the same attitude you used on Zo Mourning.

I can't wait; in a few years we'll have the "Dolan should give JR Smith a shot as the step-back J shooting coach" thread...

Hillary Humper? Thats just wrong, been one of her biggest critics on this board, who isnt posting about her really being a pizza making cyborg, or something to that effect.

And I've been on the board saying Trump's nothing but a deranged clown, so I thought I'd return the favor.

Wassamatter Gustav, your Buc's doing lousy again or something?