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Carmelo Prostesting Phil's Nonsense talk
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EnySpree
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12/11/2016  10:32 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2016  11:54 AM
I think Melo is saying all the wrong things when it comes to Phil's comments. Truth is Melo does hold on to the ball too much. Even though we are winning now, as the season goes on defenses will adjust. That's the underlying message from Phil. Melo keeps saying he doesn't understand where Phil is going with the comments. This is why Melo is a loser in nba circles. He's got to be more receptive to criticism and more open to evolving his game. He's standing in his own way
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CrushAlot
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12/11/2016  10:53 AM
smackeddog wrote:I like this piece a lot:

ESPN ADMITS: “WE ARE TRYING TO SABOTAGE THE KNICKS”

Did that headline get your attention? Good. Apparently that’s all that matters in this new digital world we’re in. Clicks and eyeballs now far outweigh journalistic integrity in importance, as “The Mothership” ESPN has now shown us these last two days.

It doesn’t matter that nobody actually said that quote, just like it doesn’t matter that ESPN has been putting words in Phil Jackson’s mouth. There are no rules anymore, I guess? Ok ESPN, we can all play that game.

Granted, I probably shouldn’t be as shocked and appalled as I am. This is New York. We know things are magnified here. We know little things turn into big things very quickly, and fires regularly burn out of control when the New York media pours gasoline on it. We expect as much.

But the media STARTING those fires? That’s a different story. That’s not the New York media doing what it does. That’s malpractice.

These last 48 hours, ESPN has committed blatant journalistic malpractice, seemingly with the intention of throwing a hand grenade into the Knicks locker room and de-railing a promising Knicks season – one of the first in a long time – and as a fan I can no longer sit by and be silent.

Let’s start with an admission: The Knicks have been generally terrible since 1999. We know this. There has been much negativity from the press, and much of it has been warranted. But since Phil Jackson got here two years ago, and since he drafted KP, there have been things to be excited about. Yet much of the New York press seemingly hasn’t gotten the memo – in particular Frank Isola of the New York Daily News, who seems to think it’s in his job description to find the negative in everything that happens and “report” things that never do, all while endlessly trolling Phil on Twitter when the chips are down, and remaining silent when they aren’t.

Much of the Knicks media is this way. There are a few that aren’t. Until recently, I thought one of those was at ESPN, but recent poorly timed but mostly benign comments from Phil about the style of Melo’s play have now been turned into a national wildfire thanks to ESPN, and I for one have had enough.

It started with this, from Phil: “Carmelo can play the role MJ and Kobe played in their teams’ triangle offenses, but Carmelo a lot of times wants to hold the ball longer than — we have a rule: If you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold it for three, four, five seconds, and then everybody comes to a stop… That is one of the things we work with. But he’s adjusted to [the triangle], he knows what he can do and he’s willing to see its success. He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played. It’s a perfect spot for him to be in that isolated position on the weak side, because it’s an overload offense and there’s a weakside man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung.”

So Phil is saying something that NOBODY, not even the staunchest Melo supporters, disagree with – Melo sometimes holds the ball too long. In the past it has largely been because of who he’s had around him, or the fact that he gets the ball late in the clock and is forced to handle possessions himself… but whatever the reason, that statement is true.

What’s also true is that in the same interview, the same minute, Phil also compares Melo to two of the greatest players to ever play the game. Yet the headline from ESPN ignores that complimentary comparison, and focuses entirely on the negative and takes it upon themselves to take it much further, characterizing Phil’s statement this way: “Melo Working on Ball Hog Tendency, Jackson Says”

Ball Hog. One of the worst things you can call a player. And Phil DID NOT. Yet ESPN has it in their headline for an otherwise down-the-middle piece from Begley, and sure enough THAT becomes the story.

When confronted on this, Begley’s defense was “I don’t write the headlines” – a standard excuse for writers who benefit from the clicks those headlines generate, yet don’t want to take responsibility for them. Proof positive that clicks trump integrity with today’s media, and it’s not close.

Begley and/or his editors at ESPN knew damn well that “ball hog” phrase would become the story, and sure enough later that day Tim Legler of ESPN recorded a video, the title of which is “Odd timing for Phil’s ‘Ball Hog’ Comment” – a comment PHIL DID NOT MAKE.

Yet there ‘Ball Hog’ is, in QUOTATIONS, on the very same website where the headline Begley didn’t write lives.

Were Phil’s comments poorly timed? Sure. Should he have known the media would jump all over anything he said? Sure. But in this instance these guys are jumping all over things he DIDN’T say, and that, Knicks fam, is some unprofessional bull****.

Sure enough, the story quickly went national. Of course, there was Frank “Mchatin” Isola piggy-backing on the situation, tweeting about the phrase he knew damn well Phil never used.

And there was Mike Vaccaro of the post calling Phil “Anti-Melo” in a tweet (Mike’s article is otherwise on point, but that tweet was obviously very disingenuous).

All just more gas on the fire ESPN started with an incendiary headline intentionally mischaracterizing comments Phil maybe shouldn’t have made, but definitely didn’t mean the way they’re presenting them. The ESPN machine then took it from there – the awful ESPN pre-game show before the Knicks-Cavs nationally televised game spent time ONLY on Phil’s “Posse” comments before this, which is a whole other thing we can get into on another day, and Phil’s comments about Melo, and NOT AT ALL about how the Knicks had been 9-3 in their last 12, a conference best, while Melo was playing some of the best ball of his career on a team Phil essentially built from the ground up.

Call me old-fashioned, but that seems like something worth touching on when you’re a pre-game show. Might be a little more important than Jalen’s relationship with Larry Bird that literally nobody cares about, which they devoted multiple minutes to.

Then in the aftermath of a bad loss on national TV, there was the media again asking Melo himself about Phil’s comments. Marc Berman of the New York Post started it, and when Melo got annoyed and said he didn’t want to talk about it – even when Frank Isola was there like a little gnat asking yet again, trying to drive that wedge between Melo and Phil even deeper – the headline became “Melo Visibly Annoyed By Phil’s Ball Hog Remarks” – again, remarks PHIL DID NOT MAKE, ignoring the fact that Melo was clearly annoyed AT THE REPORTERS as much as anything else.

Of course Begley’s article yet again used the phrase “Ball Hog”, because it’s attention-getting. And as anyone who has seen Donald Trump brand his opponents throughout the election with nicknames, ESPN knows that this too will be a name that sticks to Melo if they use it enough, a fact you can be fairly certain isn’t lost on Melo either.

“I don’t even know what he said,” Melo said in the locker room, which was probably a lie. “I’m just focused on my teammates.” Melo did all the right things. He ignored the fake-controversy, turning his attention instead to a promising season – a season ESPN appears hell-bent on ruining.

As if all that wasn’t enough, there was Stephen A. Smith as Max Kellerman on ESPN’s “Worst Take” the next day wondering if Melo should demand a trade – again over comments Phil didn’t actually say. Smith of course said he should, insisting that he and Melo are friends (there’s simply no way SAS has any friends), and saying “Melo isn’t built for this” – meaning New York, which Melo is clearly PERFECTLY built for, as anyone who is actually paying attention and doesn’t have their head up their own ass can tell you.

“I’ve been on him to ask out of New York,” Stephen A. Smith says. And there it is. A “journalist” literally admitting that he’s trying to get the star of a franchise to leave.

So here we are. ESPN has ignited a cottage industry over comments Phil never said, spinning it all the way into a controversy that has them running entire episodes on national TV encouraging the star of a team to LEAVE THE TEAM over those very things the GM/President DID NOT ACTUALLY SAY.

That, friends, is sabotage. That, friends, is unprofessionalism.

All this while SAS – who let’s not forget ripped Phil endlessly for selecting Kristaps Porzingis, who is the no-question future of this franchise for the next 15 years – goes on to belittle the 11 championship rings Phil won in his storied career, and minimize the job Phil has done to get this previously uncompetitive team to a competitive place in a matter of two seasons.

Something sinister is at work here. I hereby call for ESPN, Ian Begley, Stephen A. Smith, Max Kellerman, and everyone else associated with that out-of-control company to issue a formal apology to Carmelo, and Phil, and all of my fellow long-suffering Knicks fans who have waited FAR TOO LONG for a season like the one we’re currently having.

This season means way too much to us to let the media mess with it, and I for one am not about to stand for it.

Please share this article if you agree. Please reach out to @IanBegley, and @StephenASmith, and @ESPNNewYork and @FirstTake, and let them know THIS WILL NOT STAND.

(Then give @FisolaNYDN a holler for good measure, because that guy is really the worst. One would think if an entire fan base hated you you’d start to take a long look in the mirror.)

It’s time for this “rabid, irrational fan base” as Kellerman puts it to get Melo and Phil’s backs, and BULLY UP FOR REAL.

*Disclaimer – These are the thoughts of KnicksDude and by no means reflect the voice of the website as a whole, nonetheless, we support his contributions wholeheartedly. The man has guts.*

http://knicksfix.com/2016/12/08/espn-admits-trying-sabotage-knicks/

Great article. Thanks for posting it. Is the content always that good on that site?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
dacash
Posts: 21141
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12/11/2016  1:40 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I like this piece a lot:

ESPN ADMITS: “WE ARE TRYING TO SABOTAGE THE KNICKS”

Did that headline get your attention? Good. Apparently that’s all that matters in this new digital world we’re in. Clicks and eyeballs now far outweigh journalistic integrity in importance, as “The Mothership” ESPN has now shown us these last two days.

It doesn’t matter that nobody actually said that quote, just like it doesn’t matter that ESPN has been putting words in Phil Jackson’s mouth. There are no rules anymore, I guess? Ok ESPN, we can all play that game.

Granted, I probably shouldn’t be as shocked and appalled as I am. This is New York. We know things are magnified here. We know little things turn into big things very quickly, and fires regularly burn out of control when the New York media pours gasoline on it. We expect as much.

But the media STARTING those fires? That’s a different story. That’s not the New York media doing what it does. That’s malpractice.

These last 48 hours, ESPN has committed blatant journalistic malpractice, seemingly with the intention of throwing a hand grenade into the Knicks locker room and de-railing a promising Knicks season – one of the first in a long time – and as a fan I can no longer sit by and be silent.

Let’s start with an admission: The Knicks have been generally terrible since 1999. We know this. There has been much negativity from the press, and much of it has been warranted. But since Phil Jackson got here two years ago, and since he drafted KP, there have been things to be excited about. Yet much of the New York press seemingly hasn’t gotten the memo – in particular Frank Isola of the New York Daily News, who seems to think it’s in his job description to find the negative in everything that happens and “report” things that never do, all while endlessly trolling Phil on Twitter when the chips are down, and remaining silent when they aren’t.

Much of the Knicks media is this way. There are a few that aren’t. Until recently, I thought one of those was at ESPN, but recent poorly timed but mostly benign comments from Phil about the style of Melo’s play have now been turned into a national wildfire thanks to ESPN, and I for one have had enough.

It started with this, from Phil: “Carmelo can play the role MJ and Kobe played in their teams’ triangle offenses, but Carmelo a lot of times wants to hold the ball longer than — we have a rule: If you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold it for three, four, five seconds, and then everybody comes to a stop… That is one of the things we work with. But he’s adjusted to [the triangle], he knows what he can do and he’s willing to see its success. He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played. It’s a perfect spot for him to be in that isolated position on the weak side, because it’s an overload offense and there’s a weakside man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung.”

So Phil is saying something that NOBODY, not even the staunchest Melo supporters, disagree with – Melo sometimes holds the ball too long. In the past it has largely been because of who he’s had around him, or the fact that he gets the ball late in the clock and is forced to handle possessions himself… but whatever the reason, that statement is true.

What’s also true is that in the same interview, the same minute, Phil also compares Melo to two of the greatest players to ever play the game. Yet the headline from ESPN ignores that complimentary comparison, and focuses entirely on the negative and takes it upon themselves to take it much further, characterizing Phil’s statement this way: “Melo Working on Ball Hog Tendency, Jackson Says”

Ball Hog. One of the worst things you can call a player. And Phil DID NOT. Yet ESPN has it in their headline for an otherwise down-the-middle piece from Begley, and sure enough THAT becomes the story.

When confronted on this, Begley’s defense was “I don’t write the headlines” – a standard excuse for writers who benefit from the clicks those headlines generate, yet don’t want to take responsibility for them. Proof positive that clicks trump integrity with today’s media, and it’s not close.

Begley and/or his editors at ESPN knew damn well that “ball hog” phrase would become the story, and sure enough later that day Tim Legler of ESPN recorded a video, the title of which is “Odd timing for Phil’s ‘Ball Hog’ Comment” – a comment PHIL DID NOT MAKE.

Yet there ‘Ball Hog’ is, in QUOTATIONS, on the very same website where the headline Begley didn’t write lives.

Were Phil’s comments poorly timed? Sure. Should he have known the media would jump all over anything he said? Sure. But in this instance these guys are jumping all over things he DIDN’T say, and that, Knicks fam, is some unprofessional bull****.

Sure enough, the story quickly went national. Of course, there was Frank “Mchatin” Isola piggy-backing on the situation, tweeting about the phrase he knew damn well Phil never used.

And there was Mike Vaccaro of the post calling Phil “Anti-Melo” in a tweet (Mike’s article is otherwise on point, but that tweet was obviously very disingenuous).

All just more gas on the fire ESPN started with an incendiary headline intentionally mischaracterizing comments Phil maybe shouldn’t have made, but definitely didn’t mean the way they’re presenting them. The ESPN machine then took it from there – the awful ESPN pre-game show before the Knicks-Cavs nationally televised game spent time ONLY on Phil’s “Posse” comments before this, which is a whole other thing we can get into on another day, and Phil’s comments about Melo, and NOT AT ALL about how the Knicks had been 9-3 in their last 12, a conference best, while Melo was playing some of the best ball of his career on a team Phil essentially built from the ground up.

Call me old-fashioned, but that seems like something worth touching on when you’re a pre-game show. Might be a little more important than Jalen’s relationship with Larry Bird that literally nobody cares about, which they devoted multiple minutes to.

Then in the aftermath of a bad loss on national TV, there was the media again asking Melo himself about Phil’s comments. Marc Berman of the New York Post started it, and when Melo got annoyed and said he didn’t want to talk about it – even when Frank Isola was there like a little gnat asking yet again, trying to drive that wedge between Melo and Phil even deeper – the headline became “Melo Visibly Annoyed By Phil’s Ball Hog Remarks” – again, remarks PHIL DID NOT MAKE, ignoring the fact that Melo was clearly annoyed AT THE REPORTERS as much as anything else.

Of course Begley’s article yet again used the phrase “Ball Hog”, because it’s attention-getting. And as anyone who has seen Donald Trump brand his opponents throughout the election with nicknames, ESPN knows that this too will be a name that sticks to Melo if they use it enough, a fact you can be fairly certain isn’t lost on Melo either.

“I don’t even know what he said,” Melo said in the locker room, which was probably a lie. “I’m just focused on my teammates.” Melo did all the right things. He ignored the fake-controversy, turning his attention instead to a promising season – a season ESPN appears hell-bent on ruining.

As if all that wasn’t enough, there was Stephen A. Smith as Max Kellerman on ESPN’s “Worst Take” the next day wondering if Melo should demand a trade – again over comments Phil didn’t actually say. Smith of course said he should, insisting that he and Melo are friends (there’s simply no way SAS has any friends), and saying “Melo isn’t built for this” – meaning New York, which Melo is clearly PERFECTLY built for, as anyone who is actually paying attention and doesn’t have their head up their own ass can tell you.

“I’ve been on him to ask out of New York,” Stephen A. Smith says. And there it is. A “journalist” literally admitting that he’s trying to get the star of a franchise to leave.

So here we are. ESPN has ignited a cottage industry over comments Phil never said, spinning it all the way into a controversy that has them running entire episodes on national TV encouraging the star of a team to LEAVE THE TEAM over those very things the GM/President DID NOT ACTUALLY SAY.

That, friends, is sabotage. That, friends, is unprofessionalism.

All this while SAS – who let’s not forget ripped Phil endlessly for selecting Kristaps Porzingis, who is the no-question future of this franchise for the next 15 years – goes on to belittle the 11 championship rings Phil won in his storied career, and minimize the job Phil has done to get this previously uncompetitive team to a competitive place in a matter of two seasons.

Something sinister is at work here. I hereby call for ESPN, Ian Begley, Stephen A. Smith, Max Kellerman, and everyone else associated with that out-of-control company to issue a formal apology to Carmelo, and Phil, and all of my fellow long-suffering Knicks fans who have waited FAR TOO LONG for a season like the one we’re currently having.

This season means way too much to us to let the media mess with it, and I for one am not about to stand for it.

Please share this article if you agree. Please reach out to @IanBegley, and @StephenASmith, and @ESPNNewYork and @FirstTake, and let them know THIS WILL NOT STAND.

(Then give @FisolaNYDN a holler for good measure, because that guy is really the worst. One would think if an entire fan base hated you you’d start to take a long look in the mirror.)

It’s time for this “rabid, irrational fan base” as Kellerman puts it to get Melo and Phil’s backs, and BULLY UP FOR REAL.

*Disclaimer – These are the thoughts of KnicksDude and by no means reflect the voice of the website as a whole, nonetheless, we support his contributions wholeheartedly. The man has guts.*

http://knicksfix.com/2016/12/08/espn-admits-trying-sabotage-knicks/

Great article. Thanks for posting it. Is the content always that good on that site?

Damn that was nicely written, hope some guys read it
martin
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12/11/2016  2:06 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

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StarksEwing1
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12/11/2016  2:39 PM
EnySpree wrote:I think Melo is saying all the wrong things when it comes to Phil's comments. Truth is Melo does hold on to the ball too much. Even though we are winning now, as the season goes on defenses will adjust. That's the underlying message from Phil. Melo keeps saying he doesn't understand where Phil is going with the comments. This is why Melo is a loser in nba circles. He's got to be more receptive to criticism and more open to evolving his game. He's standing in his own way
Good Post Eny. Melo always has had a issue with criticism. he needs to understand that phil isnt attacking him. he is simply trying to help him and push him more.
GustavBahler
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12/11/2016  2:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2016  2:43 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on to the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.
StarksEwing1
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12/11/2016  2:45 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.

Eh I'm pretty sure Phil has talked to him about it countless times. Yes I agree Phil can be difficult sometimes when "calling out " players but Melo can be equally difficult as well on the ISO issue. melo likes iso and yes sometimes he needs to do it but other times I feel it hurts the flow of the offense. Like is said previously he needs to have thicker skin and take the advice of Phil. Look I have also been critical of Phil but the man is a proven winner so take his advice
CrushAlot
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12/11/2016  2:56 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think Melo is saying all the wrong things when it comes to Phil's comments. Truth is Melo does hold on to the ball too much. Even though we are winning now, as the season goes on defenses will adjust. That's the underlying message from Phil. Melo keeps saying he doesn't understand where Phil is going with the comments. This is why Melo is a loser in nba circles. He's got to be more receptive to criticism and more open to evolving his game. He's standing in his own way
Good Post Eny. Melo always has had a issue with criticism. he needs to understand that phil isnt attacking him. he is simply trying to help him and push him more.
I think Melo has pretty thick skin. He is the most scrutinized athelete in NYC. I think he has tired of hearing about what Phil thinks from the media. That being said, after watching the interview I don't think it was Phil's intent to criticize or send a message to Melo. I think this was a media created issue.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
GustavBahler
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12/11/2016  2:58 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.

Eh I'm pretty sure Phil has talked to him about it countless times. Yes I agree Phil can be difficult sometimes when "calling out " players but Melo can be equally difficult as well on the ISO issue. melo likes iso and yes sometimes he needs to do it but other times I feel it hurts the flow of the offense. Like is said previously he needs to have thicker skin and take the advice of Phil. Look I have also been critical of Phil but the man is a proven winner so take his advice

Eh he hasnt. Melo was asked about this and he said (and Phil did not deny) that this has never been brought up. Melo takes heat all the time, he said he understands that he is going to hear criticism from everyone. Just doesnt want to hear it from his boss through the media without letting him try to address it first. Sounds like a reasonable request to me. Praise in public, criticize in private.
StarksEwing1
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12/11/2016  3:09 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.

Eh I'm pretty sure Phil has talked to him about it countless times. Yes I agree Phil can be difficult sometimes when "calling out " players but Melo can be equally difficult as well on the ISO issue. melo likes iso and yes sometimes he needs to do it but other times I feel it hurts the flow of the offense. Like is said previously he needs to have thicker skin and take the advice of Phil. Look I have also been critical of Phil but the man is a proven winner so take his advice

Eh he hasnt. Melo was asked about this and he said (and Phil did not deny) that this has never been brought up. Melo takes heat all the time, he said he understands that he is going to hear criticism from everyone. Just doesnt want to hear it from his boss through the media without letting him try to address it first. Sounds like a reasonable request to me. Praise in public, criticize in private.

The fact is Melo needs to have thicker skin. Others have mentioned that in this thread. I'm not being critical of his feelings I understand that its very difficult to have criticism put on you so thats understandable. However melo should accept that its part of the game and in order for the Knicks to ultimately go far in the playoffs the ball cant stick
StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671
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12/11/2016  3:13 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2016  3:14 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think Melo is saying all the wrong things when it comes to Phil's comments. Truth is Melo does hold on to the ball too much. Even though we are winning now, as the season goes on defenses will adjust. That's the underlying message from Phil. Melo keeps saying he doesn't understand where Phil is going with the comments. This is why Melo is a loser in nba circles. He's got to be more receptive to criticism and more open to evolving his game. He's standing in his own way
Good Post Eny. Melo always has had a issue with criticism. he needs to understand that phil isnt attacking him. he is simply trying to help him and push him more.
I think Melo has pretty thick skin. He is the most scrutinized athelete in NYC. I think he has tired of hearing about what Phil thinks from the media. That being said, after watching the interview I don't think it was Phil's intent to criticize or send a message to Melo. I think this was a media created issue.
Look I know you probably will accuse me of hating melo like always but I'm trying to be as objective as possible. I sympathize with melo because like you said he gets criticism a lot so yes I completely understand being a hurt by it and for that I agree phil probably should have kept it in house and that's on him. However throughout the years I feel melo responds without thinking things through. Yes you need to defened yourself but sometimes people are simply trying to help him and I feel he takes offense.
GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
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12/11/2016  3:24 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.

Eh I'm pretty sure Phil has talked to him about it countless times. Yes I agree Phil can be difficult sometimes when "calling out " players but Melo can be equally difficult as well on the ISO issue. melo likes iso and yes sometimes he needs to do it but other times I feel it hurts the flow of the offense. Like is said previously he needs to have thicker skin and take the advice of Phil. Look I have also been critical of Phil but the man is a proven winner so take his advice

Eh he hasnt. Melo was asked about this and he said (and Phil did not deny) that this has never been brought up. Melo takes heat all the time, he said he understands that he is going to hear criticism from everyone. Just doesnt want to hear it from his boss through the media without letting him try to address it first. Sounds like a reasonable request to me. Praise in public, criticize in private.

The fact is Melo needs to have thicker skin. Others have mentioned that in this thread. I'm not being critical of his feelings I understand that its very difficult to have criticism put on you so thats understandable. However melo should accept that its part of the game and in order for the Knicks to ultimately go far in the playoffs the ball cant stick

How many team presidents are talking negatively about their star player's game? Accept something almost no other athlete has to listen to? Melo said he welcomes Phil's input, but he wants to hear it from him, not a reporter.

What surprises me is that no one seems to be particularly bothered that Phil has never spoken to Melo about his tendency to hold on to the ball too long. That should have been on the agenda year one. If not then, it should have been on Phil's agenda before Melo signed that big contract extension.

Its the biggest flaw in Melo's game now that he has made more of an effort to be a better all around player. From a competitive standpoint, Phil saw a serious issue with his star player game, and instead of using his clout not only as president but HOF coach to try and correct that flaw, he let the problem fester.

Phil kicked that can down the road and ended up tripping over it. That should bother you a lot more than Melo's reaction to hearing this from a reporter in the locker room, right after a game. Everyone has to do their part.
StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671
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Joined: 12/28/2012
Member: #4451
12/11/2016  3:28 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.

Eh I'm pretty sure Phil has talked to him about it countless times. Yes I agree Phil can be difficult sometimes when "calling out " players but Melo can be equally difficult as well on the ISO issue. melo likes iso and yes sometimes he needs to do it but other times I feel it hurts the flow of the offense. Like is said previously he needs to have thicker skin and take the advice of Phil. Look I have also been critical of Phil but the man is a proven winner so take his advice

Eh he hasnt. Melo was asked about this and he said (and Phil did not deny) that this has never been brought up. Melo takes heat all the time, he said he understands that he is going to hear criticism from everyone. Just doesnt want to hear it from his boss through the media without letting him try to address it first. Sounds like a reasonable request to me. Praise in public, criticize in private.

The fact is Melo needs to have thicker skin. Others have mentioned that in this thread. I'm not being critical of his feelings I understand that its very difficult to have criticism put on you so thats understandable. However melo should accept that its part of the game and in order for the Knicks to ultimately go far in the playoffs the ball cant stick

How many team presidents are talking negatively about their star player's game? Accept something almost no other athlete has to listen to? Melo said he welcomes Phil's input, but he wants to hear it from him, not a reporter.

What surprises me is that no one seems to be particularly bothered that Phil has never spoken to Melo about his tendency to hold on to the ball too long. That should have been on the agenda year one. If not then, it should have been on Phil's agenda before Melo signed that big contract extension.

Its the biggest flaw in Melo's game now that he has made more of an effort to be a better all around player. From a competitive standpoint, Phil saw a serious issue with his star player game, and instead of using his clout not only as president but HOF coach to try and correct that flaw, he let the problem fester.

Phil kicked that can down the road and ended up tripping over it. That should bother you a lot more than Melo's reaction to hearing this from a reporter in the locker room, right after a game. Everyone has to do their part.

I think both were in the wrong. You are right Phil should have kept it in house but at the same time Melo should realize that ISO isn't the way to go especially at his age when he isn't the same player he used to be. Now that he has a young beast in porzingis and Rose he doesn't have to do that anymore
holfresh
Posts: 38679
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Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
12/11/2016  3:44 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.

Eh I'm pretty sure Phil has talked to him about it countless times. Yes I agree Phil can be difficult sometimes when "calling out " players but Melo can be equally difficult as well on the ISO issue. melo likes iso and yes sometimes he needs to do it but other times I feel it hurts the flow of the offense. Like is said previously he needs to have thicker skin and take the advice of Phil. Look I have also been critical of Phil but the man is a proven winner so take his advice

Eh he hasnt. Melo was asked about this and he said (and Phil did not deny) that this has never been brought up. Melo takes heat all the time, he said he understands that he is going to hear criticism from everyone. Just doesnt want to hear it from his boss through the media without letting him try to address it first. Sounds like a reasonable request to me. Praise in public, criticize in private.

The fact is Melo needs to have thicker skin. Others have mentioned that in this thread. I'm not being critical of his feelings I understand that its very difficult to have criticism put on you so thats understandable. However melo should accept that its part of the game and in order for the Knicks to ultimately go far in the playoffs the ball cant stick

How many team presidents are talking negatively about their star player's game? Accept something almost no other athlete has to listen to? Melo said he welcomes Phil's input, but he wants to hear it from him, not a reporter.

What surprises me is that no one seems to be particularly bothered that Phil has never spoken to Melo about his tendency to hold on to the ball too long. That should have been on the agenda year one. If not then, it should have been on Phil's agenda before Melo signed that big contract extension.

Its the biggest flaw in Melo's game now that he has made more of an effort to be a better all around player. From a competitive standpoint, Phil saw a serious issue with his star player game, and instead of using his clout not only as president but HOF coach to try and correct that flaw, he let the problem fester.

Phil kicked that can down the road and ended up tripping over it. That should bother you a lot more than Melo's reaction to hearing this from a reporter in the locker room, right after a game. Everyone has to do their part.

I think both were in the wrong. You are right Phil should have kept it in house but at the same time Melo should realize that ISO isn't the way to go especially at his age when he isn't the same player he used to be. Now that he has a young beast in porzingis and Rose he doesn't have to do that anymore
StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671
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Joined: 12/28/2012
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12/11/2016  3:47 PM
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.

Eh I'm pretty sure Phil has talked to him about it countless times. Yes I agree Phil can be difficult sometimes when "calling out " players but Melo can be equally difficult as well on the ISO issue. melo likes iso and yes sometimes he needs to do it but other times I feel it hurts the flow of the offense. Like is said previously he needs to have thicker skin and take the advice of Phil. Look I have also been critical of Phil but the man is a proven winner so take his advice

Eh he hasnt. Melo was asked about this and he said (and Phil did not deny) that this has never been brought up. Melo takes heat all the time, he said he understands that he is going to hear criticism from everyone. Just doesnt want to hear it from his boss through the media without letting him try to address it first. Sounds like a reasonable request to me. Praise in public, criticize in private.

The fact is Melo needs to have thicker skin. Others have mentioned that in this thread. I'm not being critical of his feelings I understand that its very difficult to have criticism put on you so thats understandable. However melo should accept that its part of the game and in order for the Knicks to ultimately go far in the playoffs the ball cant stick

How many team presidents are talking negatively about their star player's game? Accept something almost no other athlete has to listen to? Melo said he welcomes Phil's input, but he wants to hear it from him, not a reporter.

What surprises me is that no one seems to be particularly bothered that Phil has never spoken to Melo about his tendency to hold on to the ball too long. That should have been on the agenda year one. If not then, it should have been on Phil's agenda before Melo signed that big contract extension.

Its the biggest flaw in Melo's game now that he has made more of an effort to be a better all around player. From a competitive standpoint, Phil saw a serious issue with his star player game, and instead of using his clout not only as president but HOF coach to try and correct that flaw, he let the problem fester.

Phil kicked that can down the road and ended up tripping over it. That should bother you a lot more than Melo's reaction to hearing this from a reporter in the locker room, right after a game. Everyone has to do their part.

I think both were in the wrong. You are right Phil should have kept it in house but at the same time Melo should realize that ISO isn't the way to go especially at his age when he isn't the same player he used to be. Now that he has a young beast in porzingis and Rose he doesn't have to do that anymore

What does that have to do with anything? he can still score 30 with more ball movement and less ISO.
martin
Posts: 68979
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
12/11/2016  3:51 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.

Eh I'm pretty sure Phil has talked to him about it countless times. Yes I agree Phil can be difficult sometimes when "calling out " players but Melo can be equally difficult as well on the ISO issue. melo likes iso and yes sometimes he needs to do it but other times I feel it hurts the flow of the offense. Like is said previously he needs to have thicker skin and take the advice of Phil. Look I have also been critical of Phil but the man is a proven winner so take his advice

Eh he hasnt. Melo was asked about this and he said (and Phil did not deny) that this has never been brought up. Melo takes heat all the time, he said he understands that he is going to hear criticism from everyone. Just doesnt want to hear it from his boss through the media without letting him try to address it first. Sounds like a reasonable request to me. Praise in public, criticize in private.

The fact is Melo needs to have thicker skin. Others have mentioned that in this thread. I'm not being critical of his feelings I understand that its very difficult to have criticism put on you so thats understandable. However melo should accept that its part of the game and in order for the Knicks to ultimately go far in the playoffs the ball cant stick

How many team presidents are talking negatively about their star player's game? Accept something almost no other athlete has to listen to? Melo said he welcomes Phil's input, but he wants to hear it from him, not a reporter.

What surprises me is that no one seems to be particularly bothered that Phil has never spoken to Melo about his tendency to hold on to the ball too long. That should have been on the agenda year one. If not then, it should have been on Phil's agenda before Melo signed that big contract extension.

Its the biggest flaw in Melo's game now that he has made more of an effort to be a better all around player. From a competitive standpoint, Phil saw a serious issue with his star player game, and instead of using his clout not only as president but HOF coach to try and correct that flaw, he let the problem fester.

Phil kicked that can down the road and ended up tripping over it. That should bother you a lot more than Melo's reaction to hearing this from a reporter in the locker room, right after a game. Everyone has to do their part.

Perhaps cause he let's his coaches sort out the day-to-day with the team and sticks with higher level convo when he chats with Melo?

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holfresh
Posts: 38679
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Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
12/11/2016  3:57 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2016  3:59 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.

Eh I'm pretty sure Phil has talked to him about it countless times. Yes I agree Phil can be difficult sometimes when "calling out " players but Melo can be equally difficult as well on the ISO issue. melo likes iso and yes sometimes he needs to do it but other times I feel it hurts the flow of the offense. Like is said previously he needs to have thicker skin and take the advice of Phil. Look I have also been critical of Phil but the man is a proven winner so take his advice

Eh he hasnt. Melo was asked about this and he said (and Phil did not deny) that this has never been brought up. Melo takes heat all the time, he said he understands that he is going to hear criticism from everyone. Just doesnt want to hear it from his boss through the media without letting him try to address it first. Sounds like a reasonable request to me. Praise in public, criticize in private.

The fact is Melo needs to have thicker skin. Others have mentioned that in this thread. I'm not being critical of his feelings I understand that its very difficult to have criticism put on you so thats understandable. However melo should accept that its part of the game and in order for the Knicks to ultimately go far in the playoffs the ball cant stick

How many team presidents are talking negatively about their star player's game? Accept something almost no other athlete has to listen to? Melo said he welcomes Phil's input, but he wants to hear it from him, not a reporter.

What surprises me is that no one seems to be particularly bothered that Phil has never spoken to Melo about his tendency to hold on to the ball too long. That should have been on the agenda year one. If not then, it should have been on Phil's agenda before Melo signed that big contract extension.

Its the biggest flaw in Melo's game now that he has made more of an effort to be a better all around player. From a competitive standpoint, Phil saw a serious issue with his star player game, and instead of using his clout not only as president but HOF coach to try and correct that flaw, he let the problem fester.

Phil kicked that can down the road and ended up tripping over it. That should bother you a lot more than Melo's reaction to hearing this from a reporter in the locker room, right after a game. Everyone has to do their part.

I think both were in the wrong. You are right Phil should have kept it in house but at the same time Melo should realize that ISO isn't the way to go especially at his age when he isn't the same player he used to be. Now that he has a young beast in porzingis and Rose he doesn't have to do that anymore

What does that have to do with anything? he can still score 30 with more ball movement and less ISO.

The team has been winning playing ball thru Melo and he likes ISO...I like winning more than anything...Phil is not against ISO..
StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671
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Joined: 12/28/2012
Member: #4451
12/11/2016  3:59 PM
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.

Eh I'm pretty sure Phil has talked to him about it countless times. Yes I agree Phil can be difficult sometimes when "calling out " players but Melo can be equally difficult as well on the ISO issue. melo likes iso and yes sometimes he needs to do it but other times I feel it hurts the flow of the offense. Like is said previously he needs to have thicker skin and take the advice of Phil. Look I have also been critical of Phil but the man is a proven winner so take his advice

Eh he hasnt. Melo was asked about this and he said (and Phil did not deny) that this has never been brought up. Melo takes heat all the time, he said he understands that he is going to hear criticism from everyone. Just doesnt want to hear it from his boss through the media without letting him try to address it first. Sounds like a reasonable request to me. Praise in public, criticize in private.

The fact is Melo needs to have thicker skin. Others have mentioned that in this thread. I'm not being critical of his feelings I understand that its very difficult to have criticism put on you so thats understandable. However melo should accept that its part of the game and in order for the Knicks to ultimately go far in the playoffs the ball cant stick

How many team presidents are talking negatively about their star player's game? Accept something almost no other athlete has to listen to? Melo said he welcomes Phil's input, but he wants to hear it from him, not a reporter.

What surprises me is that no one seems to be particularly bothered that Phil has never spoken to Melo about his tendency to hold on to the ball too long. That should have been on the agenda year one. If not then, it should have been on Phil's agenda before Melo signed that big contract extension.

Its the biggest flaw in Melo's game now that he has made more of an effort to be a better all around player. From a competitive standpoint, Phil saw a serious issue with his star player game, and instead of using his clout not only as president but HOF coach to try and correct that flaw, he let the problem fester.

Phil kicked that can down the road and ended up tripping over it. That should bother you a lot more than Melo's reaction to hearing this from a reporter in the locker room, right after a game. Everyone has to do their part.

I think both were in the wrong. You are right Phil should have kept it in house but at the same time Melo should realize that ISO isn't the way to go especially at his age when he isn't the same player he used to be. Now that he has a young beast in porzingis and Rose he doesn't have to do that anymore

What does that have to do with anything? he can still score 30 with more ball movement and less ISO.

The team has been winning playing ball thru Melo and he likes ISO...I like winning more than anything...

MELO FOR MVP
holfresh
Posts: 38679
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Joined: 1/14/2006
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12/11/2016  4:01 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2016  4:02 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.

Eh I'm pretty sure Phil has talked to him about it countless times. Yes I agree Phil can be difficult sometimes when "calling out " players but Melo can be equally difficult as well on the ISO issue. melo likes iso and yes sometimes he needs to do it but other times I feel it hurts the flow of the offense. Like is said previously he needs to have thicker skin and take the advice of Phil. Look I have also been critical of Phil but the man is a proven winner so take his advice

Eh he hasnt. Melo was asked about this and he said (and Phil did not deny) that this has never been brought up. Melo takes heat all the time, he said he understands that he is going to hear criticism from everyone. Just doesnt want to hear it from his boss through the media without letting him try to address it first. Sounds like a reasonable request to me. Praise in public, criticize in private.

The fact is Melo needs to have thicker skin. Others have mentioned that in this thread. I'm not being critical of his feelings I understand that its very difficult to have criticism put on you so thats understandable. However melo should accept that its part of the game and in order for the Knicks to ultimately go far in the playoffs the ball cant stick

How many team presidents are talking negatively about their star player's game? Accept something almost no other athlete has to listen to? Melo said he welcomes Phil's input, but he wants to hear it from him, not a reporter.

What surprises me is that no one seems to be particularly bothered that Phil has never spoken to Melo about his tendency to hold on to the ball too long. That should have been on the agenda year one. If not then, it should have been on Phil's agenda before Melo signed that big contract extension.

Its the biggest flaw in Melo's game now that he has made more of an effort to be a better all around player. From a competitive standpoint, Phil saw a serious issue with his star player game, and instead of using his clout not only as president but HOF coach to try and correct that flaw, he let the problem fester.

Phil kicked that can down the road and ended up tripping over it. That should bother you a lot more than Melo's reaction to hearing this from a reporter in the locker room, right after a game. Everyone has to do their part.

I think both were in the wrong. You are right Phil should have kept it in house but at the same time Melo should realize that ISO isn't the way to go especially at his age when he isn't the same player he used to be. Now that he has a young beast in porzingis and Rose he doesn't have to do that anymore

What does that have to do with anything? he can still score 30 with more ball movement and less ISO.

The team has been winning playing ball thru Melo and he likes ISO...I like winning more than anything...

MELO FOR MVP

Well last game, Melo played ISO and KP was able to put up 19 shots..I don't see anyone not getting their looks when Melo goes ISO..
GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186
12/11/2016  4:04 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Someone on ESPN, (cant remember who) made a great point about this situation. He said that Phil used to do this stuff to his players as a coach, players could immediately talk to him whenever he said something to the media about them. There was no distance, he traveled with them, was around them constantly. Now it comes off more like lobbing hand grenades from a distance.

My view is if Phil had an issue with Melo's game that was important enough to share with millions of people worldwide, it was important enough to share with Melo first. Its the right thing to do IMO. Doesn't matter if Phil was the catalyst.

after watching the video, do you really think it was a grenade lob?

Melo gets boo'ed by MSG fans, so this is not something that is hidden from any of us. I thought Phil also praised Melo in that same sentence and this was not an uninitiated thought out of left field by Phil.

Does the team and Melo specifically want to get better? Melo making quick decisions with the ball is one of many many ways it can do so to get that done.

When Melo is getting this information from a third party, and not from Phil himself, it probably feels like Phil is taking pot shots at him, regardless of the context.

Been saying that Melo holds on the ball too long since he got to NY. Its no secret. Thats not the issue to me. The issue is that Phil has been a part of the organization for several years. He's had plenty of time to talk to Melo about the flaws in his game. This is business he should have handled a long time ago in private. Now that business is out on the street and Melo is PO'd.

Eh I'm pretty sure Phil has talked to him about it countless times. Yes I agree Phil can be difficult sometimes when "calling out " players but Melo can be equally difficult as well on the ISO issue. melo likes iso and yes sometimes he needs to do it but other times I feel it hurts the flow of the offense. Like is said previously he needs to have thicker skin and take the advice of Phil. Look I have also been critical of Phil but the man is a proven winner so take his advice

Eh he hasnt. Melo was asked about this and he said (and Phil did not deny) that this has never been brought up. Melo takes heat all the time, he said he understands that he is going to hear criticism from everyone. Just doesnt want to hear it from his boss through the media without letting him try to address it first. Sounds like a reasonable request to me. Praise in public, criticize in private.

The fact is Melo needs to have thicker skin. Others have mentioned that in this thread. I'm not being critical of his feelings I understand that its very difficult to have criticism put on you so thats understandable. However melo should accept that its part of the game and in order for the Knicks to ultimately go far in the playoffs the ball cant stick

How many team presidents are talking negatively about their star player's game? Accept something almost no other athlete has to listen to? Melo said he welcomes Phil's input, but he wants to hear it from him, not a reporter.

What surprises me is that no one seems to be particularly bothered that Phil has never spoken to Melo about his tendency to hold on to the ball too long. That should have been on the agenda year one. If not then, it should have been on Phil's agenda before Melo signed that big contract extension.

Its the biggest flaw in Melo's game now that he has made more of an effort to be a better all around player. From a competitive standpoint, Phil saw a serious issue with his star player game, and instead of using his clout not only as president but HOF coach to try and correct that flaw, he let the problem fester.

Phil kicked that can down the road and ended up tripping over it. That should bother you a lot more than Melo's reaction to hearing this from a reporter in the locker room, right after a game. Everyone has to do their part.

Perhaps cause he let's his coaches sort out the day-to-day with the team and sticks with higher level convo when he chats with Melo?

Jackson has been religious about implimenting the Triangle, spent time working with the last two coaches. Phil has been in the weeds (no pun intended) when it comes to the offense since he got here.

If Phil wants to take a hands off approach, he should let Jeff run whatever the heck he wants, not do interviews about the Triangle, or offer any criticism of players through the media.

Melo has encouraged Phil to keep the lines of communication open, he wants to hear from Phil, Phil should have told him the truth about his game. Im pretty sure Melo would have taken the criticism/advice seriously.
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