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BRIGGS
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12/10/2016  6:20 PM
nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
djsunyc wrote:briggs - what is your opinion about russia's involvement in the election?

I hope Russia did not have involvement. If they did that doesn't speak highly of our current national cyber security. If true a lot of people should be fired and Obama should've stepped down.

What can you tell me about George Soros? That was Hillary's main financier


Obama should re-sign?! And you thought someone else was bonkers?!

If someone believes that the Russians hacked into our voting machines than the President of the U S should resign. That would mean our CIC failed to keep America safe. I personally don't think it happened but if it can be proven without doubt-- the top man has to take the fall

You think all the ties to Russia from Trump and his people isn't enough??? You're only concerned if they can prove Election Machine Hacking??? You need to get your priorities straight! It's ALREADY bad enough that the Russians have been actively working to help elect Trump! Ask


Nixluva-- you're going to have a stroke. Relax. I voted for Trump because I feel he'd energize the President spot for the good of the country. The only thing I know about Russia is I'd rather be amiable and work together in areas of joint concern. Hillary was not going to do that-- she may even have put us in peril with Russia. you are probably lucky Trump is oresident and you just don't realize it

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nixluva
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12/10/2016  6:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2016  7:01 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
djsunyc wrote:briggs - what is your opinion about russia's involvement in the election?

I hope Russia did not have involvement. If they did that doesn't speak highly of our current national cyber security. If true a lot of people should be fired and Obama should've stepped down.

What can you tell me about George Soros? That was Hillary's main financier


Obama should re-sign?! And you thought someone else was bonkers?!

If someone believes that the Russians hacked into our voting machines than the President of the U S should resign. That would mean our CIC failed to keep America safe. I personally don't think it happened but if it can be proven without doubt-- the top man has to take the fall

You think all the ties to Russia from Trump and his people isn't enough??? You're only concerned if they can prove Election Machine Hacking??? You need to get your priorities straight! It's ALREADY bad enough that the Russians have been actively working to help elect Trump! Ask

Nixluva-- you're going to have a stroke. Relax. I voted for Trump because I feel he'd energize the President spot for the good of the country. The only thing I know about Russia is I'd rather be amiable and work together in areas of joint concern. Hillary was not going to do that-- she may even have put us in peril with Russia. you are probably lucky Trump is oresident and you just don't realize it


I know why you and others voted for Trump. I'm saying you got played as I was saying from day one that you couldn't trust Trump.

On the Russian issue you're position seems off base. Trump and MANY of his people have massive ties to Russia and they are not working in the best interests of the U.S.!!! For you to accept this and go ON talking some nonsense about Hillary putting us in peril is utter garbage.

The true danger is having a President who is in bed with Putin!!! How the F are you cool with that?

WaltLongmire
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12/10/2016  7:18 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
djsunyc wrote:briggs - what is your opinion about russia's involvement in the election?

I hope Russia did not have involvement. If they did that doesn't speak highly of our current national cyber security. If true a lot of people should be fired and Obama should've stepped down.

What can you tell me about George Soros? That was Hillary's main financier


Soros?

You are one of the 75%+ who believes the fake news that Soros was paying off protesters?

Both candidates had wealthy supporters, Briggs, but only one talked about the other being in bed with Wall Street, demonized Goldman Sachs, and talked about "draining the swamp," and that person has now added 3 members of Goldman Sachs to his administration and chosen other economic elitists whose donated big time to Trump or Trump related PACs.

Where is the Blue Collar Billionaire Populist, Briggs? Why do you think Wall Street is so happy now?

The hypocrisy is deafening.

I don't really care about protestors Walt. If you know who George Soros is then I'd doubt you'd really want to associate with him. Whatever you think negatively about Trump I would wager a lot of money Hillary is way worse.


I would hazzard a guess that you know little or nothing about Trump's background, and none of us knows what his taxes will tell us because he was afraid to put them out in the open.

Sounds like Putin has hacked info on the RNC...probably Trump's people and is holding them in case Trump gets uppity, but the appointment of another economic elitist for SOS means that Trump won't give his sugar-daddy any trouble when he creates USSR 2.0.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
holfresh
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12/10/2016  7:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2016  7:45 PM
The republican party has always put the interest of their party ahead of the country and they are the first to claim they are patriotic...The fact that Russia hacked into the DNC to help Trump win the Presidency and now republicans thinks it time to cozy up with Russia only illustrate how lost that party is..Only a few Senators in Washington are concerned..Trump and his team outright denies it, with no proof mind you, questioning the intelligence agencies saying they got Iraq weapons of mass destruction wrong...WOW...Putin said he was in contact with Trump's team during the campaign..Some one has a big boner for Putin...
nixluva
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12/10/2016  7:34 PM
holfresh wrote:The republican party has always put the interest of their party ahead of the country and they are the first to claim they are patriotic...The fact that Russia hacked into the DNC to help Trump win the Presidency and now republicans thinks it time to cozy up with Russia only illustrate how lost that party is..Only a few Senators in Washington are concerned..Trump and his team outright denies it, questioning the intelligence agencies saying they got Iraq weapons of mass destruction wrong...WOW...Putin said he was in contact with Trump's team during the campaign..Some one has a big boner for Putin...

This is so true!!! The fact that some people can just overlook all the damage the Republicans have done is mind boggling. This is possibly the worst recent example tho the Iraq War was up there. How can anyone be blasé about Trump's Russia entanglements???
Vmart
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12/10/2016  9:04 PM
holfresh wrote:The republican party has always put the interest of their party ahead of the country and they are the first to claim they are patriotic...The fact that Russia hacked into the DNC to help Trump win the Presidency and now republicans thinks it time to cozy up with Russia only illustrate how lost that party is..Only a few Senators in Washington are concerned..Trump and his team outright denies it, with no proof mind you, questioning the intelligence agencies saying they got Iraq weapons of mass destruction wrong...WOW...Putin said he was in contact with Trump's team during the campaign..Some one has a big boner for Putin...

Did Russia really play any part in the election or was Hillary Clinton just a bad candidate. I happen to think Hillary was force fed to the public. If everything went the way it's suppose to be and the media didn't force Hillary down everyone throat. Sanders would be the president of the US. Democratic Party did this to themselves. You can blame Wikileaks you can blame Russia but the reality is the Democrats didn't plan it and failed to understand people. The fact that she lost African American votes and Hispanic vote base that Obama had speaks volumes.

GustavBahler
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12/10/2016  9:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2016  9:42 PM
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/no_america_it_wasnt_russia_you_did_this_to_yourself_20161210


No, America, It Wasn’t Russia: You Did This to Yourself

By Juan Cole

The headlines scream, “Secret CIA assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump win White House” and “Obama orders review of Russian Hacking during Presidential campaign.”

I don’t doubt that the Russian Federation employs hackers and PR people to influence public opinion and even election outcomes in other countries. So does the United States of America. But I am skeptical that anything the Russians did caused Donald Trump to be president.

It wasn’t like Trump was a Manchurian Candidate, a stealth plant in the US body politic who would only be operationalized once elected.

Trump was in plain view. He had all along been in plain view. His hatred for uppity or “nasty” women, his racism, his prickliness, his narcissism, his rich white boy arrogance and entitlement (apparently even to strange women and other men’s wives), his cronyism and his fundamental dishonesty were on display 24/7 during some 18 months of the campaign, and it wasn’t as though he were an unknown quantity before that.

Americans voted for him anyway. Slightly more Americans voted for him than for a respectable person like Mitt Romney. No Russians were holding a gun to their heads. And they knew, or should have known, what they were getting.

By a “black swan” fluke, a few tens of thousands of the Trump voters were distributed differently, state by state, than the McCain and Romney voters; and in some key states like Michigan Sec. Clinton did not do as well as Obama had, even if she was beloved in California and New York.

One of the cleverest things Trump said during the campaign was directed to African-American voters, asking what they had to lose by challenging the status quo and voting for him. It was a trick, of course, and they have everything to lose, both because the Republican Party’s economic policies aim to help rich people at the expense of workers and most African-Americans are working class, and because the GOP since Nixon has connived at attracting a white racist constituency, and succeeded.

But despite the dishonesty of the quip (which did not fool African-Americans one little bit), that kind of thinking appears to have been widespread. In some states, as many as 14 percent of the white working class deserted the Democratic Party compared to the previous two elections, and, worse, 21 percent of white working class voters who used to vote for Obama just stayed home. They weren’t being irrational. Things have been bad for them and they haven’t participated in the recovery after 2008 the way the stock market has. Their death rates have even increased.

Nor did any Russian hacking related to Wikileaks, if that is what happened, prove decisive. Clinton’s own polling people found the big turning point was when she called Trump voters a “basket of deplorables.” Americans don’t like being talked down to, and had already gotten rid of Romney for the same sin. The spectacle of Clinton taking hundreds of thousands of dollars to give a speech to the people who put them out of their homes in 2008-9 also turned many of them off so that they stayed home, while another section of them decided to take a chance on Trump. He will screw them over, but from their point of view, they worried that she might have, as well. Trump was promising to stop the hemorrhaging of jobs via protectionism, whereas everyone understood that Sec. Clinton’s first instinct was to do TPP and send more jobs to Asia.

So it was Clinton’s public persona and public positions that hurt her and depressed Democratic turnout in places like Detroit and Flint, not anything in Wikileaks (can anyone name even one newsworthy email?) Or on the other hand it was neofascist disinformation campaigns like spirit cooking and pizzagate. It wasn’t anything as rational as a Putin sting.

No, America had its eyes wide open. The Republican Party, the usual 61 million, voted for Trump, despite his vulgar talk and vulgar style of life. Since the GOP is mostly the party of Protestant whites plus about 40 million Catholics who think they are white, nobody over there too much minded the racism against minorities. There were some defections among the white Protestant married women from the GOP (either stay-at-homes or aisle-crossers) and there were some defections among the white working class from the Democratic Party. But those two may well have just cancelled each other out.

The GOP voted for a champion of the business classes, which Trump will be, in spades. And that is what everyone should expect. There is nothing surprising about it. The GOP wins nationally when it can add to its base of small and large businesspeople and farmers and exurbanites, and Trump managed to attract a few tens of thousands of other sorts of people in the districts where it happened to matter.

Russia doesn’t enter into it.

holfresh
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12/10/2016  9:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2016  10:31 PM
Vmart wrote:
holfresh wrote:The republican party has always put the interest of their party ahead of the country and they are the first to claim they are patriotic...The fact that Russia hacked into the DNC to help Trump win the Presidency and now republicans thinks it time to cozy up with Russia only illustrate how lost that party is..Only a few Senators in Washington are concerned..Trump and his team outright denies it, with no proof mind you, questioning the intelligence agencies saying they got Iraq weapons of mass destruction wrong...WOW...Putin said he was in contact with Trump's team during the campaign..Some one has a big boner for Putin...

Did Russia really play any part in the election or was Hillary Clinton just a bad candidate. I happen to think Hillary was force fed to the public. If everything went the way it's suppose to be and the media didn't force Hillary down everyone throat. Sanders would be the president of the US. Democratic Party did this to themselves. You can blame Wikileaks you can blame Russia but the reality is the Democrats didn't plan it and failed to understand people. The fact that she lost African American votes and Hispanic vote base that Obama had speaks volumes.


That's a completely different topic we could touch upon, no problem..Hillary has almost as many votes as Obama did in 2012 and is now leading the 2016 election popular vote by 2.8 million votes...That's a great candidate in my eyes..So she lost the election, huh...

So back to my topic..The CIA among other US intelligence agencies, if they are still believable according to Trump, are saying Russia, our cold war enemy that has nuclear missiles point at us, interfered with our presidential election..Do you care or was this just a good old republican win for the party???
nixluva
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12/10/2016  10:38 PM
Vmart wrote:
holfresh wrote:The republican party has always put the interest of their party ahead of the country and they are the first to claim they are patriotic...The fact that Russia hacked into the DNC to help Trump win the Presidency and now republicans thinks it time to cozy up with Russia only illustrate how lost that party is..Only a few Senators in Washington are concerned..Trump and his team outright denies it, with no proof mind you, questioning the intelligence agencies saying they got Iraq weapons of mass destruction wrong...WOW...Putin said he was in contact with Trump's team during the campaign..Some one has a big boner for Putin...

Did Russia really play any part in the election or was Hillary Clinton just a bad candidate. I happen to think Hillary was force fed to the public. If everything went the way it's suppose to be and the media didn't force Hillary down everyone throat. Sanders would be the president of the US. Democratic Party did this to themselves. You can blame Wikileaks you can blame Russia but the reality is the Democrats didn't plan it and failed to understand people. The fact that she lost African American votes and Hispanic vote base that Obama had speaks volumes.


BULLCRAP!!! CAN WE STOP WITH THE FALSE NARRATIVE THAT TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE PUSHING THAT THE RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE WAS INCONSEQUENTIAL??? Perhaps now you and others have forgotten where things stood when they dropped all this Wikileaks stuff and then Comey drops his bomb as well.

WikiLeaks poisons Hillary’s relationship with left
After learning how Clinton feels about them, liberals vow to push back against her agenda and appointments.
By KENNETH P. VOGEL 10/21/16 05:05 AM EDT

LAS VEGAS — Donald Trump is pointing to a stream of hacked emails as proof that Hillary Clinton would be a compromised president, but a surprising number of progressives are drawing similar conclusions — albeit for totally different reasons.

Some of the left’s most influential voices and groups are taking offense at the way they and their causes were discussed behind their backs by Clinton and some of her closest advisers in the emails, which swipe liberal heroes and causes as “puritanical,” “pompous”, “naive”, “radical” and “dumb,” calling some “freaks,” who need to “get a life.”

There are more than personal feelings and relationships at stake, though.

If polls hold and Clinton wins the presidency, she will need the support of the professional left to offset what’s expected to be vociferous Republican opposition to her legislative proposals and appointments.

But among progressive operatives, goodwill for Clinton — and confidence in key advisers featured in the emails including John Podesta, Neera Tanden and Jake Sullivan — is eroding as WikiLeaks continues to release a daily stream of thousands of emails hacked from Podesta’s Gmail account that is expected to continue until Election Day.

Liberal groups and activists are assembling opposition research-style dossiers of the most dismissive comments in the WikiLeaks emails about icons of their movement like Clinton’s Democratic primary rival Bernie Sanders, and their stances on trade, Wall Street reform, energy and climate change. And some liberal activists are vowing to use the email fodder to oppose Clinton policy proposals or appointments deemed insufficiently progressive.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/wikileaks-hilary-clinton-progressives-230009

By Sari Horwitz October 28
On Friday, FBI Director James B. Comey sent a letter to Congress saying the bureau is investigating additional emails that appear relevant to the Hillary Clinton email case. Soon after, he sent a note to his employees explaining his decision. Comey has been blasted by Democrats and some former Justice Department officials who say that his decision to notify Congress of this development less than two weeks before Election Day was inappropriate and unwarranted.

“It is extraordinary that we would see something like this just 11 days out from a presidential election,” said John Podesta, the chairman of Clinton’s presidential campaign. “The Director owes it to the American people to immediately provide the full details of what he is now examining. We are confident this will not produce any conclusions different from the one the FBI reached in July.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/10/28/read-the-letter-comey-sent-to-fbi-employees-explaining-his-controversial-decision-on-the-clinton-email-investigation/?utm_term=.a971c9f2353a

Not for nothing but the Russian interference was just one big drag on the Election that gave Trump a break when he was floundering. Along with Comey and his unbelievable interference that made very little sense. He could've handled things completely different but chose to inject doubt into the Election just when Trump was tanking in the polls.

Those Wikileaks dumps were about as strategic and damaging as you could get cuz it and topped off by the Comey letter which knocked Hillary's campaign off it's message just when they were about to switch to a positive message about her vision for the country. It invigorated Trump and gave him fresh ammo. This was a purposeful HIT JOB in order to help Trump win. Was Hillary a great candidate? No but she was on her way to winning before all of this crap was thrown at her. Let's not act like Trump was doing well and winning before all of this!!!

Trump was able to win based on about 80,000 votes in those Rust Belt states. That's not a lot of difference but it was enough. You can't make a case that things weren't influenced a great deal by all the Russian and FBI interference.

Bonn1997
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12/11/2016  7:43 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2016  7:46 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
djsunyc wrote:briggs - what is your opinion about russia's involvement in the election?

I hope Russia did not have involvement. If they did that doesn't speak highly of our current national cyber security. If true a lot of people should be fired and Obama should've stepped down.

What can you tell me about George Soros? That was Hillary's main financier


Obama should re-sign?! And you thought someone else was bonkers?!

If someone believes that the Russians hacked into our voting machines than the President of the U S should resign. That would mean our CIC failed to keep America safe. I personally don't think it happened but if it can be proven without doubt-- the top man has to take the fall


Two things: A) Did they say it was the voting machines? I thought it was the wiki leaks e-mail hacking that they were referring to. B) For years, Democrats have wanted paper trails in order to verify the votes of these voting machines but Republicans have stopped them from getting this done. If there were any voting machine problems, that's on the Republicans. But we'll never know if the voting machines recorded votes correctly, and Republicans seem to want it that way.
holfresh
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12/11/2016  8:08 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2016  8:10 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
djsunyc wrote:briggs - what is your opinion about russia's involvement in the election?

I hope Russia did not have involvement. If they did that doesn't speak highly of our current national cyber security. If true a lot of people should be fired and Obama should've stepped down.

What can you tell me about George Soros? That was Hillary's main financier


Obama should re-sign?! And you thought someone else was bonkers?!

If someone believes that the Russians hacked into our voting machines than the President of the U S should resign. That would mean our CIC failed to keep America safe. I personally don't think it happened but if it can be proven without doubt-- the top man has to take the fall


Two things: A) Did they say it was the voting machines? I thought it was the wiki leaks e-mail hacking that they were referring to. B) For years, Democrats have wanted paper trails in order to verify the votes of these voting machines but Republicans have stopped them from getting this done. If there were any voting machine problems, that's on the Republicans. But we'll never know if the voting machines recorded votes correctly, and Republicans seem to want it that way.

Also, polling stations, voting machines are under the control of individual States..That's why there are different voting rules and different voting machines across America..

Bonn1997
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12/11/2016  8:51 AM
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
djsunyc wrote:briggs - what is your opinion about russia's involvement in the election?

I hope Russia did not have involvement. If they did that doesn't speak highly of our current national cyber security. If true a lot of people should be fired and Obama should've stepped down.

What can you tell me about George Soros? That was Hillary's main financier


Obama should re-sign?! And you thought someone else was bonkers?!

If someone believes that the Russians hacked into our voting machines than the President of the U S should resign. That would mean our CIC failed to keep America safe. I personally don't think it happened but if it can be proven without doubt-- the top man has to take the fall


Two things: A) Did they say it was the voting machines? I thought it was the wiki leaks e-mail hacking that they were referring to. B) For years, Democrats have wanted paper trails in order to verify the votes of these voting machines but Republicans have stopped them from getting this done. If there were any voting machine problems, that's on the Republicans. But we'll never know if the voting machines recorded votes correctly, and Republicans seem to want it that way.

Also, polling stations, voting machines are under the control of individual States..That's why there are different voting rules and different voting machines across America..


That's a good point, though I think the control becomes even more local than that since the voting method differs at different precincts within each state.
holfresh
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12/11/2016  8:54 AM
-Remember the FBI going out of their way to say no links were found between Russia and the election or Trump campaign a week before the election???..How does Comey still have a job??..He may be appointed to a Cabinet position..
holfresh
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12/11/2016  9:14 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2016  9:28 AM
-Russia got the Secretary of State they wanted..New Secretary of State to be, Tillerson, wanted sanctions lifted against Russia after their invasion of Ukraine, Crimea..Tillerson received an award from Putin..
arkrud
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12/11/2016  9:36 AM
holfresh wrote:-Russia got the Secretary of State they wanted..New Secretary of State to be, Tillerson, wanted sanctions lifted against Russia after their invasion of Ukraine, Crimea..Tillerson received an award from Putin..

US sanction against Russia are a joke.
The sanctions are against some group of individuals not the country.
Economically Russia is more irrelevant as ever and is ripe for reforms or even revolution (again).
This is the last thing you want for Nuclear and military superpower.
No matter who is the president we need to take careful approach and we will need to compromise.
We may need to prop up the power it is in Russia for safety reasons and to have some measure of control.
Politics and morals are 2 completely incompatible things.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
djsunyc
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12/11/2016  9:39 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2016  9:49 AM
the hustle is now out in plain sight. alot of folks gravitate towards the alpha male. even if he's a bad person with bad intentions.

sometimes you have to take a few steps back to move forward (which is usually the case for misinformed people - it should really be taking 2 steps forward every time but i digress). we may suffer the next 4 years but this potentially could be the beginning of the downfall for the GOP party.

holfresh
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12/11/2016  9:45 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2016  9:47 AM
arkrud wrote:
holfresh wrote:-Russia got the Secretary of State they wanted..New Secretary of State to be, Tillerson, wanted sanctions lifted against Russia after their invasion of Ukraine, Crimea..Tillerson received an award from Putin..

US sanction against Russia are a joke.
The sanctions are against some group of individuals not the country.
Economically Russia is more irrelevant as ever and is ripe for reforms or even revolution (again).
This is the last thing you want for Nuclear and military superpower.
No matter who is the president we need to take careful approach and we will need to compromise.
We may need to prop up the power it is in Russia for safety reasons and to have some measure of control.
Politics and morals are 2 completely incompatible things.

Sanctions against Russia a joke??? The currency went from 35 to 85 per USD and settled around 62/3..Import prices just doubled..Putin has tight control of Russia..He isn't going anywhere..

nixluva
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12/11/2016  11:03 AM
The Russian ties to Trump and his campaign team, his Cabinet Nominees and appointees are unbelievable!!! Rex Tillerson being the latest in a long line of Russian entangled people surrounding Trump.

According to The Wall Street Journal, Tillerson negotiated an energy partnership with Putin in 2011 that the Russian president said could be worth $500 billion.

The following year, Tillerson received the Russian Order of Friendship, one of the highest awards the country bestows upon foreign nationals.

Reuters reported earlier this year that the Exxon Mobil deal with Russia had been put on hold due to sanctions levied against the Kremlin for its annexation of Crimea in 2014. The company has said it intends to resume the deal after sanctions are lifted — a process that Tillerson could help expedite as secretary of State.

http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/309852-trump-aide-on-tillersons-ties-to-russia-having-relationships-isnt

Not to overlook Trump's many Russian entanglements of his own in addition to his closest advisors.

Donald Trump’s Many, Many, Many, Many Ties to Russia
Jeff Nesbit Aug. 2, 2016 Updated: Aug. 15, 2016 10:39 AM ET

Jeff Nesbit was the communications director to former Vice President Dan Quayle (R-IN) at the White House. He is the author of Poison Tea

His dodge is a classic magician’s trick

Russian intelligence agencies have allegedly recently digitally broken into four different American organizations that are affiliated either with Hillary Clinton or the Democratic Party since late May. All of the hacks appear designed to benefit Donald Trump’s presidential aspirations in one fashion or another.

When asked about this, and his affection for Russian president Vladimir Putin, Trump said any inference that a connection exists between the two is absurd and the stuff of conspiracy. “I have ZERO investments in Russia,” he tweeted after the Democratic National Committee was apparently hacked by Russia and the emails released by Wiki Leaks on the eve of the DNC convention to nominate Clinton as its 2016 presidential candidate.

Donald Trump encouraged Russia to commit a cybercrime against Hillary Clinton, saying he hoped the foreign nation could recover some of her deleted emails.

Most of the coverage of the links between Trump and Putin’s Russia takes the GOP presidential nominee at his word—that he has lusted after a Trump tower in Moscow, and come up spectacularly short. But Trump’s dodge—that he has no businesses in Russia, so there is no connection to Putin—is a classic magician’s trick. Show one idle hand, while the other is actually doing the work.

The truth, as several columnists and reporters have painstakingly shown since the first hack of a Clinton-affiliated group took place in late May or early June, is that several of Trump’s businesses outside of Russia are entangled with Russian financiers inside Putin’s circle.

So, yes, it’s true that Trump has failed to land a business venture inside Russia. But the real truth is that, as major banks in America stopped lending him money following his many bankruptcies, the Trump organization was forced to seek financing from non-traditional institutions. Several had direct ties to Russian financial interests in ways that have raised eyebrows. What’s more, several of Trump’s senior advisors have business ties to Russia or its satellite politicians.

“The Trump-Russia links beneath the surface are even more extensive,” Max Boot wrote in the Los Angeles Times. “Trump has sought and received funding from Russian investors for his business ventures, especially after most American banks stopped lending to him following his multiple bankruptcies.”

What’s more, three of Trump’s top advisors all have extensive financial and business ties to Russian financiers, wrote Boot, the former editor of the Op Ed page of the Wall Street Journal and now a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.

Trump’s de facto campaign manager, Paul Manafort, was a longtime consultant to Viktor Yanukovich, the Russian-backed president of Ukraine who was overthrown in 2014. Manafort also has done multimillion-dollar business deals with Russian oligarchs. Trump’s foreign policy advisor Carter Page has his own business ties to the state-controlled Russian oil giant Gazprom. … Another Trump foreign policy advisor, retired Army Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, flew to Moscow last year to attend a gala banquet celebrating Russia Today, the Kremlin’s propaganda channel, and was seated at the head table near Putin.

Manafort denounced the New York Times Monday for a deeply reported story that broke over the weekend showing that secret ledgers in Ukraine contained references to $12.7 million in payments earmarked for him. The Times report said that the party of former Ukraine president and pro-Russia ally, Viktor Yanukovych, set aside the payments for Manafort as part of an illegal and previously undisclosed system of payments.

“Once again, the New York Times has chosen to purposefully ignore facts and professional journalism to fit their political agenda, choosing to attack my character and reputation rather than present an honest report,” Manafort said in a statement first reported by NBC News. Manafort said that he has never done work for the governments of Ukraine or Russia—but that “political payments directed to me” in Ukraine were for his entire political team there that included operatives and researchers.

In response, Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager, Robby Mook, issued a statement: “Donald Trump has a responsibility to disclose campaign chair Paul Manafort’s and all other campaign employees’ and advisers’ ties to Russian or pro-Kremlin entities, including whether any of Trump’s employees or advisers are currently representing and or being paid by them.”

But it is Trump’s financing from Russian satellite business interests that would seem to explain his pro-Putin sympathies.

Read more: This Is How the Trump Campaign May Have Interfered With Russia Policy

The most obvious example is Trump Soho, a complicated web of financial intrigue that has played out in court. A lawsuit claimed that the business group, Bayrock, underpinning Trump Soho was supported by criminal Russian financial interests. While its initial claim absolved Trump of knowledge of those activities, Trump himself later took on the group’s principal partner as a senior advisor in the Trump organization.

“Tax evasion and money-laundering are the core of Bayrock’s business model,” the lawsuit said of the financiers behind Trump Soho. The financing came from Russian-affiliated business interests that engaged in criminal activities, it said. “(But) there is no evidence Trump took any part in, or knew of, their racketeering.”

Journalists who’ve looked at the Bayrock lawsuit, and Trump Soho, wonder why Trump was involved at all. “What was Trump thinking entering into business with partners like these?” Franklin Foer wrote in Slate. “It’s a question he has tried to banish by downplaying his ties to Bayrock.”

But Bayrock wasn’t just involved with Trump Soho. It financed multiple Trump projects around the world, Foer wrote. “(Trump) didn’t just partner with Bayrock; the company embedded with him. Bayrock put together deals for mammoth Trump-named, Trump-managed projects—two in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, a resort in Phoenix, the Trump SoHo in New York.”

But, as The New York Times has reported, that was only the beginning of the Trump organization’s entanglement with Russian financiers. Trump was quite taken with Bayrock’s founder, Tevfik Arif, a former Soviet-era commerce official originally from Kazakhstan.

“Bayrock, which was developing commercial properties in Brooklyn, proposed that Mr. Trump license his name to hotel projects in Florida, Arizona and New York, including Trump SoHo,” the Times reported. “The other development partner for Trump SoHo was the Sapir Organization, whose founder, Tamir Sapir, was from the former Soviet republic of Georgia.”

Trump was eager to work with both financial groups on Trump projects all over the world. “Mr. Trump was particularly taken with Mr. Arif’s overseas connections,” the Times wrote. “In a deposition, Mr. Trump said that the two had discussed ‘numerous deals all over the world’ and that Mr. Arif had brought potential Russian investors to Mr. Trump’s office to meet him. ‘Bayrock knew the people, knew the investors, and in some cases I believe they were friends of Mr. Arif,’ Mr. Trump said. ‘And this was going to be Trump International Hotel and Tower Moscow, Kiev, Istanbul, etc., Poland, Warsaw.’”

The Times also reported that federal court records recently released showed yet another link to Russian financial interests in Trump businesses. A Bayrock official “brokered a $50 million investment in Trump SoHo and three other Bayrock projects by an Icelandic firm preferred by wealthy Russians ‘in favor with’ President Vladimir V. Putin,’” the Times reported. “The Icelandic company, FL Group, was identified in a Bayrock investor presentation as a ‘strategic partner,’ along with Alexander Mashkevich, a billionaire once charged in a corruption case involving fees paid by a Belgian company seeking business in Kazakhstan; that case was settled with no admission of guilt.”

Trump Soho was so complicated that Bayrock’s finance chief, Jody Kriss, sued it for fraud. In the lawsuit, Kriss alleged that a primary source of funding for Trump’s big projects with Bayrock arrived “magically” from sources in Russia and Kazakhstan whenever the business interest needed funding.

There are other Russian business ties to the Trump organization as well. Trump’s first real estate venture in Toronto, Canada, was a partnership with two Russian-Canadian entrepreneurs, Toronto Life reported in 2013.

“The hotel’s developer, Talon International, is run by Val Levitan and Alex Shnaider, two Russian-Canadian entrepreneurs. Levitan made his fortune manufacturing slot machines and creating bank note validation technology, and Shnaider earned his in the post-glasnost steel trade,” it reported.

Finally, for all of his denials of Russian ties lately, Trump has boasted in the past of his many meetings with Russian oligarchs. During one trip to Moscow, Trump bragged that they all showed up to meet him to discuss projects around the globe. “Almost all of the oligarchs were in the room” just to meet with him, Trump said at the time.

And when Trump built a tower in Panama, his clients were wealthy Russians, the Washington Post reported. “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia,” Trump’s son, Donald Jr., said at a real estate conference in 2008, according to a trade publication, eTurboNews.

The only instance that Trump acknowledges any sort of Russian financial connection is a Florida mansion he sold to a wealthy Russian. “What do I have to do with Russia?” Trump said in the wake of the DNC hack. “You know the closest I came to Russia, I bought a house a number of years ago in Palm Beach, Florida… for $40 million and I sold it to a Russian for $100 million including brokerage commissions.”

But it should be obvious to anyone trying to pay attention to these moving targets that Trump is saying one thing and doing something else. When it comes to Trump and Russia, the truth may take awhile to emerge.

Bloomberg reported in June that the Clinton Foundation was breached by Russian hackers. “The Russians may also have acquired the emails that Hillary Clinton sent as secretary of State. Putin might be holding back explosive material until October, when its release could ensure a Trump victory,” it reported.

In the 1970s, burglars broke into the Democratic National Committee headquarters in the Watergate office complex. President Richard Nixon, a Republican, was forced out of office for the White House cover up of its involvement in the DNC break in.

Now, a generation later, a digital break in to the national headquarters of one of our two major parties by a foreign adversary in order to leak information that benefits the other national party’s presidential candidate seems to be just the normal course of doing business. The Trump era, it is safe to assume, is like nothing we’ve ever seen before.

Walter A. Saurack of Satterlee Stephens LLP, Bayrock’s attorney, provided the following statement after publication: The allegations made by Jody Kriss in the lawsuit are completely baseless and unsubstantiated. The allegations of tax fraud, as well as other allegations from his original complaint that are quoted in this article, were not included by Kriss when he filed a second amended complaint in the lawsuit.


http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/the-mystery-of-trumps-man-in-moscow-214283
Vmart
Posts: 31800
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
12/11/2016  11:25 AM
nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
djsunyc wrote:briggs - what is your opinion about russia's involvement in the election?

I hope Russia did not have involvement. If they did that doesn't speak highly of our current national cyber security. If true a lot of people should be fired and Obama should've stepped down.

What can you tell me about George Soros? That was Hillary's main financier


Obama should re-sign?! And you thought someone else was bonkers?!

If someone believes that the Russians hacked into our voting machines than the President of the U S should resign. That would mean our CIC failed to keep America safe. I personally don't think it happened but if it can be proven without doubt-- the top man has to take the fall

You think all the ties to Russia from Trump and his people isn't enough??? You're only concerned if they can prove Election Machine Hacking??? You need to get your priorities straight! It's ALREADY bad enough that the Russians have been actively working to help elect Trump! Ask

Nixluva-- you're going to have a stroke. Relax. I voted for Trump because I feel he'd energize the President spot for the good of the country. The only thing I know about Russia is I'd rather be amiable and work together in areas of joint concern. Hillary was not going to do that-- she may even have put us in peril with Russia. you are probably lucky Trump is oresident and you just don't realize it


I know why you and others voted for Trump. I'm saying you got played as I was saying from day one that you couldn't trust Trump.

On the Russian issue you're position seems off base. Trump and MANY of his people have massive ties to Russia and they are not working in the best interests of the U.S.!!! For you to accept this and go ON talking some nonsense about Hillary putting us in peril is utter garbage.

The true danger is having a President who is in bed with Putin!!! How the F are you cool with that?

What do you want another cold war? the logic sucks on your part. Your saying the people who voted for Trump are against America because they want good relations with Russia. Your talking about Russia and you have a Democratic candidate that is deal uranium with them. How are you cool with that?

gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
12/11/2016  11:32 AM
djsunyc wrote:the hustle is now out in plain sight. alot of folks gravitate towards the alpha male. even if he's a bad person with bad intentions.

sometimes you have to take a few steps back to move forward (which is usually the case for misinformed people - it should really be taking 2 steps forward every time but i digress). we may suffer the next 4 years but this potentially could be the beginning of the downfall for the GOP party.

The establishment GOP fell when Trump announced he was running for President

OT: Politics Thread

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