holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:Popular vote Hillary up 2.621 million and counting...

Will that change the 306 to 232 Electoral count?

No but it's making a case for why the electoral college system should be scrapped...

But obviously the Electoral college is trying to create some equality. Aren't we a Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy?
Look at this picture. Trump absolutely dominated on a State by State basis. The idea is not to have the population of e.g. CA, NY decide the outcome for all the States.
Perhaps some adjustment in the EC can be argued but scrapping it?

We are a democracy in the sense that we have freedom of speech, freedom to assemble and freedom practice our religion...The electoral college is about maintaining inequality in Washington...The map you posted is about land mass not about people or voters...As more people get educated, they will migrate to states that have jobs suited for their education...Our legislators doesn't want voters who are educated voting nor their votes to count, they want people they can manipulate...This system was set up 250 years ago and we act like the constitution was a divine document...We don't trust our legislators of today for more than 4 years but we trust legislators of 250 years ago to see 100s of years into the future...

Let's look at the Senate where Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota and West Virginia combined have a total population of 4 million people with 8 Senators..They have more voting power than California, New York and Texas combined which have 6 Senators and 86 million people...How is that democratic???..90% of the population want gun legislation changed and we can't get it done..It's a rigged system...It can't be ignore anymore...

I will be ignored again because you do not like arguments which kills you cool theories.
The voting system designed to facilitate the Federal nature of Unites States.
Every state is independent entity which agreed to be a part of the Union on specific terms including the voting system as it is.
People on every state want to have major say on how they want to be.
If you want to redefine this order you have to break the Union and ask States to reconsider on new terms.
Do you really want this to happened and do you think that States are different politically enough to became independent countries?

You won't be ignored,,You never responded when I asked what does the term "federal nature" of the United States mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_government_of_the_United_States

The United States government is based on the principles of federalism and republicanism, in which power is shared between the federal government and state governments. The interpretation and execution of these principles, including what powers the federal government should have and how those powers can be exercised, have been debated ever since the adoption of the Constitution. Some make the case for expansive federal powers while others argue for a more limited role for the central government in relation to individuals, the states or other recognized entities.

Also on federalism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism_in_the_United_States

USA Republic is unique political structure which in my view is the most successful to time in history of human civilization.
Before tearing it apart because of the preferences and opinions of various groups of population who can be unsatisfied with certain tendencies and realities they need to think twice on what they want to use in place of it.
We all need to concentrate on things which brings us together not tearing us apart.
I understand all-American desire to be a winner. And many feel that they are the losing side after this elections.
But the real strength of a human being to be great in defeat. It is easy to be cool when always winning.
Nobody does. And when someone lose you can see what this person made of.

Ok..You were referring to State powers versus federal powers..Well in that case, I submit to you that the fact that States have so much power over their own governance where the Federal government can't intervene is even MORE REASON why the system should be more equatable..There is absolutely no reason why a person living in Wyoming's vote should be worth more than a person in New York..Absolutely no reason...I have stated this before, as more people get college degrees, they gravitate to states that have the jobs which suits their particular skills...Those jobs are more often in blue States than not..Our fore fathers could not have foreseen this..They aren't magicians, they were humans, I think...The current system is not fair to all Americans...It's not about winning and losing, it's about every vote should have equal weight and every vote should count..We live in a system where every vote does not count or certain parts of the country make laws that infringes on the entire country...This can't be the essence of a good democracy...Saying it's the best system that currently exist doesn't mean it's fair..It means it's pretty sad...

Look at what we are talking about here..We are arguing that all votes in "supposedly the greatest democracy on earth" should count...And you are saying no all votes shouldn't count..

You have some very simplistic view of the world.
Yes, world in not fair and it will never be.
There are things which much more important that fairness for all people who live now not talking about it is impossible to please everyone.
The most important things is to ensure that future generations will leave in piece and prosperity and for this stability is paramount.
Many things are and should be sacrificed and many compromises made to ensure this.
Human race goes with things that work and then it is progressing.
And when some go with utopian shortcuts they are bound to death and destruction.

Sine you have a great understanding of the World, I just want your insights on the United States..What does fair elections have to do with future generations?..What is at risk here?

As I mentioned multiple times in my opinion its a road to breaking US into multiple antagonistic countries.
I consider this direction bad. What about you? You entitled to have other opinion.

They purposefully wrecked government so that voters would become angry and blame the Dems. It WORKED!!! Now they have power again and will do what they always do. Totally SCREW the people. Trump is setting things up nicely. He sold his voters a bunch of snake oil. He hasn't drained the swamp at all. He populated it with ELITES and power brokers that have a history of screwing the average joe.

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:More good news. Now we are talking not 50,000 but 100,000 jobs. I believe the newer jobs are lower paid compared to the former. Bonn, you got those Obama salary numbers for all those jobs he created?
I'd like to see how much people are being helped by these jobs. I ask because many people are losing jobs but getting 2 PT jobs or lower paying jobs to get by. So just creating jobs, doesn't say anything about them, but does aid the unemployment numbers.

Apple’s Top Assembler Foxconn Confirms Plans for U.S. Investment

snippet

The disclosure came hours after an announcement by U.S. President-elect Donald Trump and SoftBank Group Corp.’s Masayoshi Son to invest $50 billion in the U.S. and create 50,000 jobs. The money will come from SoftBank’s $100 billion technology fund, which was announced in October, a person familiar with the matter said. A document that Son held up after the meeting in Trump Tower also included the words “Foxconn,” “$7 billion” and “50,000 new jobs” in addition to SoftBank’s numbers.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/apple-s-top-assembler-foxconn-confirms-plans-for-u-s-investment

Here's the detailed jobs report.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
The # of involuntary part time workers is a lot lower than a year ago and virtually every number is way better than the last time we had a Republican running the country.

Thanks.
I looked through that, where does it say how much the average salary and average hours are for these jobs? I want to see if these are more low paying jobs and I don't see that.
I think you said Obama created 178,000 new jobs? And I just can't fathom how those could be good paying jobs. If they are, great job Obama and I'm happy, but I'd like that data.

I don't think those specific details have been released yet. (I haven't seen the salaries for those Trump jobs either but you still seem to be celebrating them.) Any job is better than being unemployed though. So this is good news even if it's not a complete picture.

Thanks Holfresh for that information btw. And I don't wish anything bad against Obama and creating jobs and such. I'm just personally not real happy with his presidency. But I won't go off on that.

Bonn, Obama didn't create those jobs? Why phrase it like that?
Did you read the information on those jobs from Softcom or just post a reply about "Obama's 178,000 jobs", which were created by the economy?

The softcom jobs are via starting companies up, so the pay scale is all those people in a company. Not just people at the bottom.
And not to make this Trump vs Obama or vs Clinton, etc. but it is pretty nice to see jobs coming back to America due to Trump directly.

It looks like Carrier is talking about adding 10,000 more jobs. Just on alt media and not MSM that I see, but quite a few mentions of it. http://thegoldwater.com/news/681-Carrier-Tells-Trump-10-000-More-Jobs-For-American-Workers
US Steel talking about bringing back up to 10,000 jobs due to Trump.http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/07/us-steel-wants-to-accelerate-investments-bring-back-jobs-ceo-says.html

United States Steel would like to accelerate its investments and hire back laid-off employees now that Donald Trump will be occupying the Oval Office, CEO Mario Longhi told CNBC on Wednesday.

I didn't say Obama created those jobs. I said it happened in the Obama economy. And I was using the phrase half tongue in cheek because I'm not going to seriously credit one person (Obama or Trump) for something this complex. (Though what I said is not the exact same as saying Obama created the jobs.)

In other news, I heard that yesterday Donald Trump ordered the sun to come up today. It came up in the morning and he took credit for it. It's a miracle.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028339913#post4

LOL, and I'll meet you half way. Stein ordered a recount on Trump winning Times man of the year. (A partial hit piece - The divided States of America :-( )

GustavBahler wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

martin wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:Michael Flynn Jr. fired from the transition team directly by Trump for promoting fake news..

Pizza, anyone?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/806287369762639872

Notice, all of MSM talking about #PizzaGate will NOT talk about any of the evidence. They just say "Fake News" and skip discussion.
The real question we should be asking, in part, is why are they attacking this so fiercely?
We are talking about children here. If Podesta, Alefantis, etc. have nothing to hide, wouldn't they want to clear their names?

We have ample circumstantial evidence and the police sketch below alone, warrants a look. The connection between those involved, the sick art, spirit cooking, the way Comet Pizza changed their pedophilia pizza symbol logo on their sign after this story broke, the weird coded emails (which got the investigation started), and on and on. It is just growing. Those wikileaks opened a bombshell.
That is the thing, those emails lay the groundwork, just connect some dots. But it is still circumstantial, criminals don't usually talk openly in emails. But their coded language made people look deeper.

Before anyone fully discounts this, just look into it, for the sake of the children. I would hate to damage someones life with an investigation, but even more than that, considering the evidence, I would feel terrible to ignore this for the sake of the children. The circumstantial evidence is apparent. Just weed through the disinformation (more the newer information).

Martin - I imagine if others are going to post about this, I can reply. I've been quiet, but people bring it up and a one sided argument is not fair. Either ban it for all (and not just me) or no-one.

I am not going to connect the dots for anyone, just have a look, a deeper look. The thing is, MSM will not cover this for the most part, but you don't really need media per se, you just need to connect the wikilkeaks content to those involved, their artwork, connections, etc. A true investigation...

Just look at the similarity. To go further we just need to know if these guys were in Portugal in 2007 when Madeleine was abducted. The resemblance is almost identical.

EMS. I am done with your posting this crap to our forums and this thread in particular. I've asked you many times over to keep it out. This is utter conspiracy crap and I've had enough. Do not post any more in this thread.

Can you answer my question? Can others post about it but not me? They are and you don't say anything.
Either ban everyone posting about it or no-one, not just me.

Playa was banned for posting crap like this. The moron who went there and shot up the place admitted that he got it wrong.

earthmansurfer wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

martin wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:Michael Flynn Jr. fired from the transition team directly by Trump for promoting fake news..

Pizza, anyone?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/806287369762639872

Notice, all of MSM talking about #PizzaGate will NOT talk about any of the evidence. They just say "Fake News" and skip discussion.
The real question we should be asking, in part, is why are they attacking this so fiercely?
We are talking about children here. If Podesta, Alefantis, etc. have nothing to hide, wouldn't they want to clear their names?

We have ample circumstantial evidence and the police sketch below alone, warrants a look. The connection between those involved, the sick art, spirit cooking, the way Comet Pizza changed their pedophilia pizza symbol logo on their sign after this story broke, the weird coded emails (which got the investigation started), and on and on. It is just growing. Those wikileaks opened a bombshell.
That is the thing, those emails lay the groundwork, just connect some dots. But it is still circumstantial, criminals don't usually talk openly in emails. But their coded language made people look deeper.

Before anyone fully discounts this, just look into it, for the sake of the children. I would hate to damage someones life with an investigation, but even more than that, considering the evidence, I would feel terrible to ignore this for the sake of the children. The circumstantial evidence is apparent. Just weed through the disinformation (more the newer information).

Martin - I imagine if others are going to post about this, I can reply. I've been quiet, but people bring it up and a one sided argument is not fair. Either ban it for all (and not just me) or no-one.

I am not going to connect the dots for anyone, just have a look, a deeper look. The thing is, MSM will not cover this for the most part, but you don't really need media per se, you just need to connect the wikilkeaks content to those involved, their artwork, connections, etc. A true investigation...

Just look at the similarity. To go further we just need to know if these guys were in Portugal in 2007 when Madeleine was abducted. The resemblance is almost identical.

EMS. I am done with your posting this crap to our forums and this thread in particular. I've asked you many times over to keep it out. This is utter conspiracy crap and I've had enough. Do not post any more in this thread.

Can you answer my question? Can others post about it but not me? They are and you don't say anything.
Either ban everyone posting about it or no-one, not just me.

Playa was banned for posting crap like this. The moron who went there and shot up the place admitted that he got it wrong.

You either don't understand what the truth is or you are willing to post anything to promote your agenda..But what you are posting is dangerous and some how you don't get it..You act like everyone with internet acces is virtuous...

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

martin wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:Michael Flynn Jr. fired from the transition team directly by Trump for promoting fake news..

Pizza, anyone?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/806287369762639872

Notice, all of MSM talking about #PizzaGate will NOT talk about any of the evidence. They just say "Fake News" and skip discussion.
The real question we should be asking, in part, is why are they attacking this so fiercely?
We are talking about children here. If Podesta, Alefantis, etc. have nothing to hide, wouldn't they want to clear their names?

We have ample circumstantial evidence and the police sketch below alone, warrants a look. The connection between those involved, the sick art, spirit cooking, the way Comet Pizza changed their pedophilia pizza symbol logo on their sign after this story broke, the weird coded emails (which got the investigation started), and on and on. It is just growing. Those wikileaks opened a bombshell.
That is the thing, those emails lay the groundwork, just connect some dots. But it is still circumstantial, criminals don't usually talk openly in emails. But their coded language made people look deeper.

Before anyone fully discounts this, just look into it, for the sake of the children. I would hate to damage someones life with an investigation, but even more than that, considering the evidence, I would feel terrible to ignore this for the sake of the children. The circumstantial evidence is apparent. Just weed through the disinformation (more the newer information).

Martin - I imagine if others are going to post about this, I can reply. I've been quiet, but people bring it up and a one sided argument is not fair. Either ban it for all (and not just me) or no-one.

I am not going to connect the dots for anyone, just have a look, a deeper look. The thing is, MSM will not cover this for the most part, but you don't really need media per se, you just need to connect the wikilkeaks content to those involved, their artwork, connections, etc. A true investigation...

Just look at the similarity. To go further we just need to know if these guys were in Portugal in 2007 when Madeleine was abducted. The resemblance is almost identical.

EMS. I am done with your posting this crap to our forums and this thread in particular. I've asked you many times over to keep it out. This is utter conspiracy crap and I've had enough. Do not post any more in this thread.

Can you answer my question? Can others post about it but not me? They are and you don't say anything.
Either ban everyone posting about it or no-one, not just me.

Playa was banned for posting crap like this. The moron who went there and shot up the place admitted that he got it wrong.

You either don't understand what the truth is or you are willing to post anything to promote your agenda..But what you are posting is dangerous and some how you don't get it..

Conspiracy theories are intellectual pornography.
They try to activate the basic instinct to get easy satisfaction in simplistic visions of the world.
Life is infinitely more complicated.
Wikileaks taking the dark laundry of the world for all people to see without connecting the dots.
This by itself brings no value. Just destruction.
Truth is important but separating truth from lies is paramount.
And this is no easy task.

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:Popular vote Hillary up 2.621 million and counting...

Will that change the 306 to 232 Electoral count?

No but it's making a case for why the electoral college system should be scrapped...

But obviously the Electoral college is trying to create some equality. Aren't we a Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy?
Look at this picture. Trump absolutely dominated on a State by State basis. The idea is not to have the population of e.g. CA, NY decide the outcome for all the States.
Perhaps some adjustment in the EC can be argued but scrapping it?

We are a democracy in the sense that we have freedom of speech, freedom to assemble and freedom practice our religion...The electoral college is about maintaining inequality in Washington...The map you posted is about land mass not about people or voters...As more people get educated, they will migrate to states that have jobs suited for their education...Our legislators doesn't want voters who are educated voting nor their votes to count, they want people they can manipulate...This system was set up 250 years ago and we act like the constitution was a divine document...We don't trust our legislators of today for more than 4 years but we trust legislators of 250 years ago to see 100s of years into the future...

Let's look at the Senate where Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota and West Virginia combined have a total population of 4 million people with 8 Senators..They have more voting power than California, New York and Texas combined which have 6 Senators and 86 million people...How is that democratic???..90% of the population want gun legislation changed and we can't get it done..It's a rigged system...It can't be ignore anymore...

I will be ignored again because you do not like arguments which kills you cool theories.
The voting system designed to facilitate the Federal nature of Unites States.
Every state is independent entity which agreed to be a part of the Union on specific terms including the voting system as it is.
People on every state want to have major say on how they want to be.
If you want to redefine this order you have to break the Union and ask States to reconsider on new terms.
Do you really want this to happened and do you think that States are different politically enough to became independent countries?

You won't be ignored,,You never responded when I asked what does the term "federal nature" of the United States mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_government_of_the_United_States

The United States government is based on the principles of federalism and republicanism, in which power is shared between the federal government and state governments. The interpretation and execution of these principles, including what powers the federal government should have and how those powers can be exercised, have been debated ever since the adoption of the Constitution. Some make the case for expansive federal powers while others argue for a more limited role for the central government in relation to individuals, the states or other recognized entities.

Also on federalism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism_in_the_United_States

USA Republic is unique political structure which in my view is the most successful to time in history of human civilization.
Before tearing it apart because of the preferences and opinions of various groups of population who can be unsatisfied with certain tendencies and realities they need to think twice on what they want to use in place of it.
We all need to concentrate on things which brings us together not tearing us apart.
I understand all-American desire to be a winner. And many feel that they are the losing side after this elections.
But the real strength of a human being to be great in defeat. It is easy to be cool when always winning.
Nobody does. And when someone lose you can see what this person made of.

Ok..You were referring to State powers versus federal powers..Well in that case, I submit to you that the fact that States have so much power over their own governance where the Federal government can't intervene is even MORE REASON why the system should be more equatable..There is absolutely no reason why a person living in Wyoming's vote should be worth more than a person in New York..Absolutely no reason...I have stated this before, as more people get college degrees, they gravitate to states that have the jobs which suits their particular skills...Those jobs are more often in blue States than not..Our fore fathers could not have foreseen this..They aren't magicians, they were humans, I think...The current system is not fair to all Americans...It's not about winning and losing, it's about every vote should have equal weight and every vote should count..We live in a system where every vote does not count or certain parts of the country make laws that infringes on the entire country...This can't be the essence of a good democracy...Saying it's the best system that currently exist doesn't mean it's fair..It means it's pretty sad...

Look at what we are talking about here..We are arguing that all votes in "supposedly the greatest democracy on earth" should count...And you are saying no all votes shouldn't count..

You have some very simplistic view of the world.
Yes, world in not fair and it will never be.
There are things which much more important that fairness for all people who live now not talking about it is impossible to please everyone.
The most important things is to ensure that future generations will leave in piece and prosperity and for this stability is paramount.
Many things are and should be sacrificed and many compromises made to ensure this.
Human race goes with things that work and then it is progressing.
And when some go with utopian shortcuts they are bound to death and destruction.

Sine you have a great understanding of the World, I just want your insights on the United States..What does fair elections have to do with future generations?..What is at risk here?

As I mentioned multiple times in my opinion its a road to breaking US into multiple antagonistic countries.
I consider this direction bad. What about you? You entitled to have other opinion.

That is a cop out argument..It requires no thought or insight...

It is always come to opinion at the end.
I stated my and reasons for why I have a concern.
You try to avoid the choice between reality which is imperfect and possibility which is much worth.
I can understand this. This is in true nature of human being.
This is exactly why society have to be govern by people who have something to lose regardless how they get it.
This how human race survive the imperfection of each human being.

What you are saying has nothing to do with reality but only your perception of how things should be governed..No doubt influenced by your background..You have no proof of anything you say to claim it's reality..Men living in prison all their lives usually have difficulty dealing with freedom..It's usually their own reality not everyone's reality..

GustavBahler wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

martin wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:Michael Flynn Jr. fired from the transition team directly by Trump for promoting fake news..

Pizza, anyone?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/806287369762639872

Notice, all of MSM talking about #PizzaGate will NOT talk about any of the evidence. They just say "Fake News" and skip discussion.
The real question we should be asking, in part, is why are they attacking this so fiercely?
We are talking about children here. If Podesta, Alefantis, etc. have nothing to hide, wouldn't they want to clear their names?

We have ample circumstantial evidence and the police sketch below alone, warrants a look. The connection between those involved, the sick art, spirit cooking, the way Comet Pizza changed their pedophilia pizza symbol logo on their sign after this story broke, the weird coded emails (which got the investigation started), and on and on. It is just growing. Those wikileaks opened a bombshell.
That is the thing, those emails lay the groundwork, just connect some dots. But it is still circumstantial, criminals don't usually talk openly in emails. But their coded language made people look deeper.

Before anyone fully discounts this, just look into it, for the sake of the children. I would hate to damage someones life with an investigation, but even more than that, considering the evidence, I would feel terrible to ignore this for the sake of the children. The circumstantial evidence is apparent. Just weed through the disinformation (more the newer information).

Martin - I imagine if others are going to post about this, I can reply. I've been quiet, but people bring it up and a one sided argument is not fair. Either ban it for all (and not just me) or no-one.

I am not going to connect the dots for anyone, just have a look, a deeper look. The thing is, MSM will not cover this for the most part, but you don't really need media per se, you just need to connect the wikilkeaks content to those involved, their artwork, connections, etc. A true investigation...

Just look at the similarity. To go further we just need to know if these guys were in Portugal in 2007 when Madeleine was abducted. The resemblance is almost identical.

EMS. I am done with your posting this crap to our forums and this thread in particular. I've asked you many times over to keep it out. This is utter conspiracy crap and I've had enough. Do not post any more in this thread.

Can you answer my question? Can others post about it but not me? They are and you don't say anything.
Either ban everyone posting about it or no-one, not just me.

Playa was banned for posting crap like this. The moron who went there and shot up the place admitted that he got it wrong.

Did this come from wikileaks? No, it came from a fake news site. This is as fictional as a Martin novel. Don't see this alleged pursuit of truth when it comes to Trump, so stop playing the martyr. You're peddling bull****.

Truth is the individual person view of the fact.
It is as different for any fact as people are.
Fact is an event which happened with very high probability so it can be universally accepted.
Most of the information circulated in the Internet are not facts.
Examples:
Trump is a president - fact.
PizzaGate - destruction.
Trump is clown - truth.
Trump is genius - truth.
Trump is evil - truth.

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:Popular vote Hillary up 2.621 million and counting...

Will that change the 306 to 232 Electoral count?

No but it's making a case for why the electoral college system should be scrapped...

But obviously the Electoral college is trying to create some equality. Aren't we a Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy?
Look at this picture. Trump absolutely dominated on a State by State basis. The idea is not to have the population of e.g. CA, NY decide the outcome for all the States.
Perhaps some adjustment in the EC can be argued but scrapping it?

We are a democracy in the sense that we have freedom of speech, freedom to assemble and freedom practice our religion...The electoral college is about maintaining inequality in Washington...The map you posted is about land mass not about people or voters...As more people get educated, they will migrate to states that have jobs suited for their education...Our legislators doesn't want voters who are educated voting nor their votes to count, they want people they can manipulate...This system was set up 250 years ago and we act like the constitution was a divine document...We don't trust our legislators of today for more than 4 years but we trust legislators of 250 years ago to see 100s of years into the future...

Let's look at the Senate where Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota and West Virginia combined have a total population of 4 million people with 8 Senators..They have more voting power than California, New York and Texas combined which have 6 Senators and 86 million people...How is that democratic???..90% of the population want gun legislation changed and we can't get it done..It's a rigged system...It can't be ignore anymore...

I will be ignored again because you do not like arguments which kills you cool theories.
The voting system designed to facilitate the Federal nature of Unites States.
Every state is independent entity which agreed to be a part of the Union on specific terms including the voting system as it is.
People on every state want to have major say on how they want to be.
If you want to redefine this order you have to break the Union and ask States to reconsider on new terms.
Do you really want this to happened and do you think that States are different politically enough to became independent countries?

You won't be ignored,,You never responded when I asked what does the term "federal nature" of the United States mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_government_of_the_United_States

The United States government is based on the principles of federalism and republicanism, in which power is shared between the federal government and state governments. The interpretation and execution of these principles, including what powers the federal government should have and how those powers can be exercised, have been debated ever since the adoption of the Constitution. Some make the case for expansive federal powers while others argue for a more limited role for the central government in relation to individuals, the states or other recognized entities.

Also on federalism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism_in_the_United_States

USA Republic is unique political structure which in my view is the most successful to time in history of human civilization.
Before tearing it apart because of the preferences and opinions of various groups of population who can be unsatisfied with certain tendencies and realities they need to think twice on what they want to use in place of it.
We all need to concentrate on things which brings us together not tearing us apart.
I understand all-American desire to be a winner. And many feel that they are the losing side after this elections.
But the real strength of a human being to be great in defeat. It is easy to be cool when always winning.
Nobody does. And when someone lose you can see what this person made of.

Ok..You were referring to State powers versus federal powers..Well in that case, I submit to you that the fact that States have so much power over their own governance where the Federal government can't intervene is even MORE REASON why the system should be more equatable..There is absolutely no reason why a person living in Wyoming's vote should be worth more than a person in New York..Absolutely no reason...I have stated this before, as more people get college degrees, they gravitate to states that have the jobs which suits their particular skills...Those jobs are more often in blue States than not..Our fore fathers could not have foreseen this..They aren't magicians, they were humans, I think...The current system is not fair to all Americans...It's not about winning and losing, it's about every vote should have equal weight and every vote should count..We live in a system where every vote does not count or certain parts of the country make laws that infringes on the entire country...This can't be the essence of a good democracy...Saying it's the best system that currently exist doesn't mean it's fair..It means it's pretty sad...

Look at what we are talking about here..We are arguing that all votes in "supposedly the greatest democracy on earth" should count...And you are saying no all votes shouldn't count..

You have some very simplistic view of the world.
Yes, world in not fair and it will never be.
There are things which much more important that fairness for all people who live now not talking about it is impossible to please everyone.
The most important things is to ensure that future generations will leave in piece and prosperity and for this stability is paramount.
Many things are and should be sacrificed and many compromises made to ensure this.
Human race goes with things that work and then it is progressing.
And when some go with utopian shortcuts they are bound to death and destruction.

Sine you have a great understanding of the World, I just want your insights on the United States..What does fair elections have to do with future generations?..What is at risk here?

As I mentioned multiple times in my opinion its a road to breaking US into multiple antagonistic countries.
I consider this direction bad. What about you? You entitled to have other opinion.

That is a cop out argument..It requires no thought or insight...

It is always come to opinion at the end.
I stated my and reasons for why I have a concern.
You try to avoid the choice between reality which is imperfect and possibility which is much worth.
I can understand this. This is in true nature of human being.
This is exactly why society have to be govern by people who have something to lose regardless how they get it.
This how human race survive the imperfection of each human being.

What you are saying has nothing to do with reality but only your perception of how things should be governed..No doubt influenced by your background..You have no proof of anything you say to claim it's reality..Men living in prison all their lives usually have difficulty dealing with freedom..It's usually their own reality not everyone's reality..

Reality is our perception about the world.
We as human beings knew no other reality.
There is no everyone's reality, there is only your reality.
You seems to have a hard time to accept the reality you perceive.
I have no problems with this. World is beautiful.

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:Popular vote Hillary up 2.621 million and counting...

Will that change the 306 to 232 Electoral count?

No but it's making a case for why the electoral college system should be scrapped...

But obviously the Electoral college is trying to create some equality. Aren't we a Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy?
Look at this picture. Trump absolutely dominated on a State by State basis. The idea is not to have the population of e.g. CA, NY decide the outcome for all the States.
Perhaps some adjustment in the EC can be argued but scrapping it?

We are a democracy in the sense that we have freedom of speech, freedom to assemble and freedom practice our religion...The electoral college is about maintaining inequality in Washington...The map you posted is about land mass not about people or voters...As more people get educated, they will migrate to states that have jobs suited for their education...Our legislators doesn't want voters who are educated voting nor their votes to count, they want people they can manipulate...This system was set up 250 years ago and we act like the constitution was a divine document...We don't trust our legislators of today for more than 4 years but we trust legislators of 250 years ago to see 100s of years into the future...

Let's look at the Senate where Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota and West Virginia combined have a total population of 4 million people with 8 Senators..They have more voting power than California, New York and Texas combined which have 6 Senators and 86 million people...How is that democratic???..90% of the population want gun legislation changed and we can't get it done..It's a rigged system...It can't be ignore anymore...

I will be ignored again because you do not like arguments which kills you cool theories.
The voting system designed to facilitate the Federal nature of Unites States.
Every state is independent entity which agreed to be a part of the Union on specific terms including the voting system as it is.
People on every state want to have major say on how they want to be.
If you want to redefine this order you have to break the Union and ask States to reconsider on new terms.
Do you really want this to happened and do you think that States are different politically enough to became independent countries?

You won't be ignored,,You never responded when I asked what does the term "federal nature" of the United States mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_government_of_the_United_States

The United States government is based on the principles of federalism and republicanism, in which power is shared between the federal government and state governments. The interpretation and execution of these principles, including what powers the federal government should have and how those powers can be exercised, have been debated ever since the adoption of the Constitution. Some make the case for expansive federal powers while others argue for a more limited role for the central government in relation to individuals, the states or other recognized entities.

Also on federalism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism_in_the_United_States

USA Republic is unique political structure which in my view is the most successful to time in history of human civilization.
Before tearing it apart because of the preferences and opinions of various groups of population who can be unsatisfied with certain tendencies and realities they need to think twice on what they want to use in place of it.
We all need to concentrate on things which brings us together not tearing us apart.
I understand all-American desire to be a winner. And many feel that they are the losing side after this elections.
But the real strength of a human being to be great in defeat. It is easy to be cool when always winning.
Nobody does. And when someone lose you can see what this person made of.

Ok..You were referring to State powers versus federal powers..Well in that case, I submit to you that the fact that States have so much power over their own governance where the Federal government can't intervene is even MORE REASON why the system should be more equatable..There is absolutely no reason why a person living in Wyoming's vote should be worth more than a person in New York..Absolutely no reason...I have stated this before, as more people get college degrees, they gravitate to states that have the jobs which suits their particular skills...Those jobs are more often in blue States than not..Our fore fathers could not have foreseen this..They aren't magicians, they were humans, I think...The current system is not fair to all Americans...It's not about winning and losing, it's about every vote should have equal weight and every vote should count..We live in a system where every vote does not count or certain parts of the country make laws that infringes on the entire country...This can't be the essence of a good democracy...Saying it's the best system that currently exist doesn't mean it's fair..It means it's pretty sad...

Look at what we are talking about here..We are arguing that all votes in "supposedly the greatest democracy on earth" should count...And you are saying no all votes shouldn't count..

You have some very simplistic view of the world.
Yes, world in not fair and it will never be.
There are things which much more important that fairness for all people who live now not talking about it is impossible to please everyone.
The most important things is to ensure that future generations will leave in piece and prosperity and for this stability is paramount.
Many things are and should be sacrificed and many compromises made to ensure this.
Human race goes with things that work and then it is progressing.
And when some go with utopian shortcuts they are bound to death and destruction.

Sine you have a great understanding of the World, I just want your insights on the United States..What does fair elections have to do with future generations?..What is at risk here?

As I mentioned multiple times in my opinion its a road to breaking US into multiple antagonistic countries.
I consider this direction bad. What about you? You entitled to have other opinion.

That is a cop out argument..It requires no thought or insight...

It is always come to opinion at the end.
I stated my and reasons for why I have a concern.
You try to avoid the choice between reality which is imperfect and possibility which is much worth.
I can understand this. This is in true nature of human being.
This is exactly why society have to be govern by people who have something to lose regardless how they get it.
This how human race survive the imperfection of each human being.

What you are saying has nothing to do with reality but only your perception of how things should be governed..No doubt influenced by your background..You have no proof of anything you say to claim it's reality..Men living in prison all their lives usually have difficulty dealing with freedom..It's usually their own reality not everyone's reality..

Reality is our perception about the world.
We as human beings knew no other reality.
There is no everyone's reality, there is only your reality.
You seems to have a hard time to accept the reality you perceive.
I have no problems with this. World is beautiful.

I don't have a hard time at all accepting reality, after all I think I'm pointing it out in our conversations..Nothing have to be accepted, these things can be changed as our difficult history have illustrated..So you can sit around accepting your situation and your perceived reality...I'll opt to work for change...In this country, we feel we can change anything...

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:Amazon is planning on rolling out supermarkets with no cashiers...Now a multi-billion dollar company with millions in revenues quarterly can't cover a cashier's salary??..Come on, I think this is a bridge too far...I will boycott Amazon supermarkets if this happens and hope the word gets out and creates a movement across all industries...Might be time to start supporting family run businesses again...

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/forum.asp?f=2
I can agree with you here. I'm moving most of my Amazon purchases to Ebay, funny, I thought of that a few days ago because Bezos owns the Wash Post and I just don't like these corporate connections to our news. And I just don't like the profit first mentality. Maybe we got it wrong and it is the future but these companies seem too self interested. Where are these profits going.

And now that Trump won I am going to be more critical of him, no free pass. In particular I am worred about Mnuchin, will be watching that close. Don't want that Dakota Access pipeline either.

The fact that profit is involved creates accountability..They have something to lose when telling lies..The sites you visit have nothing to lose...They can lie and there are no repercussions..They are expected to lie...