[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

OT: Politics Thread
Author Thread
GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

4/30/2017  10:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/30/2017  11:07 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. Just a reminder.

Not as simple as that...and there were changes later... but hey, if you want to make an absolute statement, that is your thing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/38/repeal-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-higher-incomes/

Obama did exactly what I said he did, he extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. He also tried in his "Grand Bargain" to offer deep cuts to SS, Medicare, and medicaid, in exchange for an increase in taxes.

Obama was a neoliberal, too many democrats have trouble accepting that fact. Progressives don't offer to take a knife to the safety net in the the middle of the worst financial crisis since the great depression.


Again...not a black and white issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-security-expansion_us_5751f92de4b0eb20fa0e0142

Again, you oversimplify a fluid political "conversation" taking place under terrible economic circumstances. That is how politics works, I might add.

Who ever said Obama was a progressive, by the way? When he was elected I told everyone I knew, including my girlfriends crazy Bush loving mom, that he was much more middle of the road as a thinker. Much of the hatred against him was racial in its origin, and Trump was a contributor to this, but also rednecks like Mitch McConnell who was to hold so much power, and dedicate his life to obstructionism.

Always have to remember that he did not come into a situation where he could do his own thing...His presidency will always be judged by how he dealt with the recession. With a normal economy and support in Congress we have no idea what he might have accomplished or attempted to accomplish.

Moderate? Thats pretty funny. The man ran on a progressive platform, and governed as a fiscal conservative. Obama stocked the Bowles/Simpson commission aka the "Catfood Commission" with fiscal conservatives who (to no one's surprise) recommended that the answer to the deficit wasnt to make corporations pay the trillions in taxes they have been avoiding, to make Wall Street pay for their role in the crash, the answer was to gut social programs. He got the outcome he wanted.

Obama had a mandate and control of congress to make sure anything as bad as this recession didnt happen again. The banks and the derivatives market are bigger than ever. No top exec went to jail, the conditions that caused the crash remain, and now Obama is cashing in. Nothing moderate about that.


He was never going to be a progressive President...I said it at the time he ran to people I knew and worked with, and I was right. People who thought differently were foolish...no other way to put it. Progressive in terms of individual rights, but he was always going to be left of center at best, economically.

I was very pissed off that bankers and WS types didn't go to jail. Not sure of the dynamics involved in all this, and what could, or could not, have been done, but examples should have been made.

You have an agenda...that is all I'm going to say. Berners are trying to do their tear-down of the Democratic party right now, and Obama getting some play post-office is scaring them, as he has talked about getting involved in creating political leaders for the future. Berners and the GOP are doing the same to Chelsea Clinton...and both Berners and Trumpets are still putting out anti-HRC stuff over social media. Sad thing is that the GOP is happy to encourage this...I'm sure they have some folks posing as Berners, and they know how to trigger you folks. They are using you...I hope you actually understand this.

Meanwhile, Bernie is still in the spotlight, and instead of anointing successors, he seems to be running again. Instead of helping to build a coalition to take Congress back in 2018 he makes comments about the Democrats which will only lead to division and the GOP maintaining their superiority in the House and Senate.

Pushing the Dems left is fine with me...I'm registered Indy, but Sanders seems to lack the tact and nuance to get his points across without sowing division in a party he doesn't even belong to. Not stepping in to quiet his crowd while Perez was getting booed was a sign of cowardice or a total lack of awareness...or does he just not care?

For an organizer, he seems woefully ignorant of coalition building, which ALWAYS involves compromise.

And if you think Bernie won't be going on the speaker circuit if he manages to not die in political office, you are kind of ignorant. He will do the same, and I will have no problem with another guy who has always been a public servant making $$ after "retiring."

I never go upset with Bush2.0, Cheney, and others from that administration who I hate with a passion, getting speaking fees...that is how it works when you are retired.

We will see what Obama does as an out of office political leader and how he uses his money and influence, but to cry about one of the most popular men in the world making money on the speakers circuit makes me believe there are other reasons for your dissatisfaction.

Well pat yourself on the head for guessing that Obama wasn't going to be anything but nominally progressive. In your great wisdom did you see Obama being to the right of Bush on many issues? See that one coming Nostradamus?

I didnt see Obama appointing some of the same people responsible for the crash to oversee the recovery. Not just talking about from the same industry, but the very same people,like Larry Summers.

I didnt see Obama prosecuting more leakers,reporters, of goverment malfeasance than all other president combined.

I didn't see Obama opening up our coastline to oil drilling, even while the BP disaster was going on. Have to give Obama credit for hiding all that oil with Corexit for BP. A substance so toxic that its been banned in large parts of the world. But your moderate president thought it would make a great dispersant. The gulf coast is still recovering, know that from firsthand experience. If Bush had done something like this....

I also didnt know that Obama would prosecute fewer corporate criminals in 8 years than George W Bush, fewer than any president in more than 40 years, right after the biggest orgy of corporate fraud and criminality in US history. But you saw that coming right?

Didnt know that he was lying through his teeth when he was campaigning for the ACA, telling people there would be a public option, when he had already made a deal to kill it. He made a deal with big Pharma to keep prices high. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation proposal from the 1990s, the same Heritage foundation who is consulting Trump on who to hire in his administration.


How about the NDAA? Did you see him making it legal for the president to order the excecution of any American, anywhere in the world (including the US) without a trial or charges? Obama spent 8 years building the framework for an authoritarian state and gift wrapped it for Trump. But you saw that coming right? I was warning this board about it for years. That I did see coming.

As for Bernie, he talks a good game but its mostly talk. If Sanders were serious about changing things he would have left the party, stopped caucusing with them, and formed a new one. I would have voted for him for president, but beyond that, he's a useful tool for the Dems.

The problem with talking about the center is that it has been moving to the right since the 80s. You can go back to Jimmy Carter deregulating the airline industry, but it really started moving to the right with Bill Clinton, and his triangulation strategy.

Always moving to the right of wherever the Dems were at the time to hold the fictitious center, which moved the democratic party away from its traditional mission of representing the working class to that of representating big business, and high income professionals. Obama not only followed that strategy, he went to the right of republicans at times, in a big way.

So yes, I do have an agenda. Its not hearing any more bull**** about the center. It keeps moving right with voters like you leading the way. Telling folks like me to keep moving with it.

AUTOADVERT
martin
Posts: 67880
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
5/1/2017  10:49 AM
This is a good example of why I think Trump is a scumbag. Not savy or smart enough to walk himself around some very pointed questions, dumb enough to dig himself into his own hole, slimy enough to shoot self and our country as a whole by disparaging a former president for no reason. Literally nothing to his guy but the con.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

5/1/2017  3:40 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. Just a reminder.

Not as simple as that...and there were changes later... but hey, if you want to make an absolute statement, that is your thing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/38/repeal-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-higher-incomes/

Obama did exactly what I said he did, he extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. He also tried in his "Grand Bargain" to offer deep cuts to SS, Medicare, and medicaid, in exchange for an increase in taxes.

Obama was a neoliberal, too many democrats have trouble accepting that fact. Progressives don't offer to take a knife to the safety net in the the middle of the worst financial crisis since the great depression.


Again...not a black and white issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-security-expansion_us_5751f92de4b0eb20fa0e0142

Again, you oversimplify a fluid political "conversation" taking place under terrible economic circumstances. That is how politics works, I might add.

Who ever said Obama was a progressive, by the way? When he was elected I told everyone I knew, including my girlfriends crazy Bush loving mom, that he was much more middle of the road as a thinker. Much of the hatred against him was racial in its origin, and Trump was a contributor to this, but also rednecks like Mitch McConnell who was to hold so much power, and dedicate his life to obstructionism.

Always have to remember that he did not come into a situation where he could do his own thing...His presidency will always be judged by how he dealt with the recession. With a normal economy and support in Congress we have no idea what he might have accomplished or attempted to accomplish.

Moderate? Thats pretty funny. The man ran on a progressive platform, and governed as a fiscal conservative. Obama stocked the Bowles/Simpson commission aka the "Catfood Commission" with fiscal conservatives who (to no one's surprise) recommended that the answer to the deficit wasnt to make corporations pay the trillions in taxes they have been avoiding, to make Wall Street pay for their role in the crash, the answer was to gut social programs. He got the outcome he wanted.

Obama had a mandate and control of congress to make sure anything as bad as this recession didnt happen again. The banks and the derivatives market are bigger than ever. No top exec went to jail, the conditions that caused the crash remain, and now Obama is cashing in. Nothing moderate about that.


He was never going to be a progressive President...I said it at the time he ran to people I knew and worked with, and I was right. People who thought differently were foolish...no other way to put it. Progressive in terms of individual rights, but he was always going to be left of center at best, economically.

I was very pissed off that bankers and WS types didn't go to jail. Not sure of the dynamics involved in all this, and what could, or could not, have been done, but examples should have been made.

You have an agenda...that is all I'm going to say. Berners are trying to do their tear-down of the Democratic party right now, and Obama getting some play post-office is scaring them, as he has talked about getting involved in creating political leaders for the future. Berners and the GOP are doing the same to Chelsea Clinton...and both Berners and Trumpets are still putting out anti-HRC stuff over social media. Sad thing is that the GOP is happy to encourage this...I'm sure they have some folks posing as Berners, and they know how to trigger you folks. They are using you...I hope you actually understand this.

Meanwhile, Bernie is still in the spotlight, and instead of anointing successors, he seems to be running again. Instead of helping to build a coalition to take Congress back in 2018 he makes comments about the Democrats which will only lead to division and the GOP maintaining their superiority in the House and Senate.

Pushing the Dems left is fine with me...I'm registered Indy, but Sanders seems to lack the tact and nuance to get his points across without sowing division in a party he doesn't even belong to. Not stepping in to quiet his crowd while Perez was getting booed was a sign of cowardice or a total lack of awareness...or does he just not care?

For an organizer, he seems woefully ignorant of coalition building, which ALWAYS involves compromise.

And if you think Bernie won't be going on the speaker circuit if he manages to not die in political office, you are kind of ignorant. He will do the same, and I will have no problem with another guy who has always been a public servant making $$ after "retiring."

I never go upset with Bush2.0, Cheney, and others from that administration who I hate with a passion, getting speaking fees...that is how it works when you are retired.

We will see what Obama does as an out of office political leader and how he uses his money and influence, but to cry about one of the most popular men in the world making money on the speakers circuit makes me believe there are other reasons for your dissatisfaction.

Well pat yourself on the head for guessing that Obama wasn't going to be anything but nominally progressive. In your great wisdom did you see Obama being to the right of Bush on many issues? See that one coming Nostradamus?

I didnt see Obama appointing some of the same people responsible for the crash to oversee the recovery. Not just talking about from the same industry, but the very same people,like Larry Summers.

I didnt see Obama prosecuting more leakers,reporters, of goverment malfeasance than all other president combined.

I didn't see Obama opening up our coastline to oil drilling, even while the BP disaster was going on. Have to give Obama credit for hiding all that oil with Corexit for BP. A substance so toxic that its been banned in large parts of the world. But your moderate president thought it would make a great dispersant. The gulf coast is still recovering, know that from firsthand experience. If Bush had done something like this....

I also didnt know that Obama would prosecute fewer corporate criminals in 8 years than George W Bush, fewer than any president in more than 40 years, right after the biggest orgy of corporate fraud and criminality in US history. But you saw that coming right?

Didnt know that he was lying through his teeth when he was campaigning for the ACA, telling people there would be a public option, when he had already made a deal to kill it. He made a deal with big Pharma to keep prices high. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation proposal from the 1990s, the same Heritage foundation who is consulting Trump on who to hire in his administration.


How about the NDAA? Did you see him making it legal for the president to order the excecution of any American, anywhere in the world (including the US) without a trial or charges? Obama spent 8 years building the framework for an authoritarian state and gift wrapped it for Trump. But you saw that coming right? I was warning this board about it for years. That I did see coming.

As for Bernie, he talks a good game but its mostly talk. If Sanders were serious about changing things he would have left the party, stopped caucusing with them, and formed a new one. I would have voted for him for president, but beyond that, he's a useful tool for the Dems.

The problem with talking about the center is that it has been moving to the right since the 80s. You can go back to Jimmy Carter deregulating the airline industry, but it really started moving to the right with Bill Clinton, and his triangulation strategy.

Always moving to the right of wherever the Dems were at the time to hold the fictitious center, which moved the democratic party away from its traditional mission of representing the working class to that of representating big business, and high income professionals. Obama not only followed that strategy, he went to the right of republicans at times, in a big way.

So yes, I do have an agenda. Its not hearing any more bull**** about the center. It keeps moving right with voters like you leading the way. Telling folks like me to keep moving with it.


All I can say is keep up this way of thinking and you will get Trump or a second term and the Congress will remain GOP controlled.

With all her warts...AND I WAS NOT A HILLARY SYCOPHANT...she would have won without Russian interference and the final Comey letter.

The Bernie teardown and sniping at the Dem party will only hurt...If this is anyone's agenda it is a fool's quest.

In some ways you are not unlike Bannon, who has a similar goal to you, it would seem.

We already see Trump gutting things you probably think are important, and he got a right-wing justice in with help from McConnell...

Deal with the hole in the dam...and then build a new one. You let the GOP keep the Senate and you will get more justices, and future efforts will be chopped down.

You see so all those trees but are truly ignorant of the forest. You helped put Trump in to make a political point and take revenge against the better candidate...now you get to pay for your foolishness.

So continue to be Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" and watch things you probably support, destroyed for the sake of remaining pure to your cause.

Congrats.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

5/1/2017  4:28 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. Just a reminder.

Not as simple as that...and there were changes later... but hey, if you want to make an absolute statement, that is your thing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/38/repeal-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-higher-incomes/

Obama did exactly what I said he did, he extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. He also tried in his "Grand Bargain" to offer deep cuts to SS, Medicare, and medicaid, in exchange for an increase in taxes.

Obama was a neoliberal, too many democrats have trouble accepting that fact. Progressives don't offer to take a knife to the safety net in the the middle of the worst financial crisis since the great depression.


Again...not a black and white issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-security-expansion_us_5751f92de4b0eb20fa0e0142

Again, you oversimplify a fluid political "conversation" taking place under terrible economic circumstances. That is how politics works, I might add.

Who ever said Obama was a progressive, by the way? When he was elected I told everyone I knew, including my girlfriends crazy Bush loving mom, that he was much more middle of the road as a thinker. Much of the hatred against him was racial in its origin, and Trump was a contributor to this, but also rednecks like Mitch McConnell who was to hold so much power, and dedicate his life to obstructionism.

Always have to remember that he did not come into a situation where he could do his own thing...His presidency will always be judged by how he dealt with the recession. With a normal economy and support in Congress we have no idea what he might have accomplished or attempted to accomplish.

Moderate? Thats pretty funny. The man ran on a progressive platform, and governed as a fiscal conservative. Obama stocked the Bowles/Simpson commission aka the "Catfood Commission" with fiscal conservatives who (to no one's surprise) recommended that the answer to the deficit wasnt to make corporations pay the trillions in taxes they have been avoiding, to make Wall Street pay for their role in the crash, the answer was to gut social programs. He got the outcome he wanted.

Obama had a mandate and control of congress to make sure anything as bad as this recession didnt happen again. The banks and the derivatives market are bigger than ever. No top exec went to jail, the conditions that caused the crash remain, and now Obama is cashing in. Nothing moderate about that.


He was never going to be a progressive President...I said it at the time he ran to people I knew and worked with, and I was right. People who thought differently were foolish...no other way to put it. Progressive in terms of individual rights, but he was always going to be left of center at best, economically.

I was very pissed off that bankers and WS types didn't go to jail. Not sure of the dynamics involved in all this, and what could, or could not, have been done, but examples should have been made.

You have an agenda...that is all I'm going to say. Berners are trying to do their tear-down of the Democratic party right now, and Obama getting some play post-office is scaring them, as he has talked about getting involved in creating political leaders for the future. Berners and the GOP are doing the same to Chelsea Clinton...and both Berners and Trumpets are still putting out anti-HRC stuff over social media. Sad thing is that the GOP is happy to encourage this...I'm sure they have some folks posing as Berners, and they know how to trigger you folks. They are using you...I hope you actually understand this.

Meanwhile, Bernie is still in the spotlight, and instead of anointing successors, he seems to be running again. Instead of helping to build a coalition to take Congress back in 2018 he makes comments about the Democrats which will only lead to division and the GOP maintaining their superiority in the House and Senate.

Pushing the Dems left is fine with me...I'm registered Indy, but Sanders seems to lack the tact and nuance to get his points across without sowing division in a party he doesn't even belong to. Not stepping in to quiet his crowd while Perez was getting booed was a sign of cowardice or a total lack of awareness...or does he just not care?

For an organizer, he seems woefully ignorant of coalition building, which ALWAYS involves compromise.

And if you think Bernie won't be going on the speaker circuit if he manages to not die in political office, you are kind of ignorant. He will do the same, and I will have no problem with another guy who has always been a public servant making $$ after "retiring."

I never go upset with Bush2.0, Cheney, and others from that administration who I hate with a passion, getting speaking fees...that is how it works when you are retired.

We will see what Obama does as an out of office political leader and how he uses his money and influence, but to cry about one of the most popular men in the world making money on the speakers circuit makes me believe there are other reasons for your dissatisfaction.

Well pat yourself on the head for guessing that Obama wasn't going to be anything but nominally progressive. In your great wisdom did you see Obama being to the right of Bush on many issues? See that one coming Nostradamus?

I didnt see Obama appointing some of the same people responsible for the crash to oversee the recovery. Not just talking about from the same industry, but the very same people,like Larry Summers.

I didnt see Obama prosecuting more leakers,reporters, of goverment malfeasance than all other president combined.

I didn't see Obama opening up our coastline to oil drilling, even while the BP disaster was going on. Have to give Obama credit for hiding all that oil with Corexit for BP. A substance so toxic that its been banned in large parts of the world. But your moderate president thought it would make a great dispersant. The gulf coast is still recovering, know that from firsthand experience. If Bush had done something like this....

I also didnt know that Obama would prosecute fewer corporate criminals in 8 years than George W Bush, fewer than any president in more than 40 years, right after the biggest orgy of corporate fraud and criminality in US history. But you saw that coming right?

Didnt know that he was lying through his teeth when he was campaigning for the ACA, telling people there would be a public option, when he had already made a deal to kill it. He made a deal with big Pharma to keep prices high. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation proposal from the 1990s, the same Heritage foundation who is consulting Trump on who to hire in his administration.


How about the NDAA? Did you see him making it legal for the president to order the excecution of any American, anywhere in the world (including the US) without a trial or charges? Obama spent 8 years building the framework for an authoritarian state and gift wrapped it for Trump. But you saw that coming right? I was warning this board about it for years. That I did see coming.

As for Bernie, he talks a good game but its mostly talk. If Sanders were serious about changing things he would have left the party, stopped caucusing with them, and formed a new one. I would have voted for him for president, but beyond that, he's a useful tool for the Dems.

The problem with talking about the center is that it has been moving to the right since the 80s. You can go back to Jimmy Carter deregulating the airline industry, but it really started moving to the right with Bill Clinton, and his triangulation strategy.

Always moving to the right of wherever the Dems were at the time to hold the fictitious center, which moved the democratic party away from its traditional mission of representing the working class to that of representating big business, and high income professionals. Obama not only followed that strategy, he went to the right of republicans at times, in a big way.

So yes, I do have an agenda. Its not hearing any more bull**** about the center. It keeps moving right with voters like you leading the way. Telling folks like me to keep moving with it.


All I can say is keep up this way of thinking and you will get Trump or a second term and the Congress will remain GOP controlled.

With all her warts...AND I WAS NOT A HILLARY SYCOPHANT...she would have won without Russian interference and the final Comey letter.

The Bernie teardown and sniping at the Dem party will only hurt...If this is anyone's agenda it is a fool's quest.

In some ways you are not unlike Bannon, who has a similar goal to you, it would seem.

We already see Trump gutting things you probably think are important, and he got a right-wing justice in with help from McConnell...

Deal with the hole in the dam...and then build a new one. You let the GOP keep the Senate and you will get more justices, and future efforts will be chopped down.

You see so all those trees but are truly ignorant of the forest. You helped put Trump in to make a political point and take revenge against the better candidate...now you get to pay for your foolishness.

So continue to be Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" and watch things you probably support, destroyed for the sake of remaining pure to your cause.

Congrats.

If you really must insist on name calling as you have throughout this exchange, congrats on being a sociopath, you ignorant POS. Nothing I cited didnt even make you want to give even a cursory acknowledgment of some of the truly dangerous, destructive, things Obama has done as president. Policies no president has ever pushed before, because they were so radical.

You're like a Trump supporter, there doesn't seem to be a limit to what you will whitewash to support your guy.

If you honestly believe that it was my fault that the democratic party pushed through a rigged system, the most deeply unpopular politican to run for president ever, over someone far more popular, who filled stadiums, who always polled better against Trump. Then you're too ****ing stupid for words.

Steve Bannon wants to destroy the system, that includes all regulations that keep him and his friends from getting everything they can lay their hands on. He is a white nationalist, anti muslim, wants to start World War 3. If you can find anything Ive written that even suggests Im in favor of these any of these things, please provide it now.

Angry young man? No, an old man who has seen enough not to fall for lesser evilism anymore. A majority of polls say that voters believe the democratic party doesn't care about their concerns, is out of touch with what's going on outside of Washington. Why should they when they have morons like you to vote for them, to cover for them, no matter what they do?

djsunyc
Posts: 44927
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
5/2/2017  1:37 PM
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

5/2/2017  3:51 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. Just a reminder.

Not as simple as that...and there were changes later... but hey, if you want to make an absolute statement, that is your thing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/38/repeal-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-higher-incomes/

Obama did exactly what I said he did, he extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. He also tried in his "Grand Bargain" to offer deep cuts to SS, Medicare, and medicaid, in exchange for an increase in taxes.

Obama was a neoliberal, too many democrats have trouble accepting that fact. Progressives don't offer to take a knife to the safety net in the the middle of the worst financial crisis since the great depression.


Again...not a black and white issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-security-expansion_us_5751f92de4b0eb20fa0e0142

Again, you oversimplify a fluid political "conversation" taking place under terrible economic circumstances. That is how politics works, I might add.

Who ever said Obama was a progressive, by the way? When he was elected I told everyone I knew, including my girlfriends crazy Bush loving mom, that he was much more middle of the road as a thinker. Much of the hatred against him was racial in its origin, and Trump was a contributor to this, but also rednecks like Mitch McConnell who was to hold so much power, and dedicate his life to obstructionism.

Always have to remember that he did not come into a situation where he could do his own thing...His presidency will always be judged by how he dealt with the recession. With a normal economy and support in Congress we have no idea what he might have accomplished or attempted to accomplish.

Moderate? Thats pretty funny. The man ran on a progressive platform, and governed as a fiscal conservative. Obama stocked the Bowles/Simpson commission aka the "Catfood Commission" with fiscal conservatives who (to no one's surprise) recommended that the answer to the deficit wasnt to make corporations pay the trillions in taxes they have been avoiding, to make Wall Street pay for their role in the crash, the answer was to gut social programs. He got the outcome he wanted.

Obama had a mandate and control of congress to make sure anything as bad as this recession didnt happen again. The banks and the derivatives market are bigger than ever. No top exec went to jail, the conditions that caused the crash remain, and now Obama is cashing in. Nothing moderate about that.


He was never going to be a progressive President...I said it at the time he ran to people I knew and worked with, and I was right. People who thought differently were foolish...no other way to put it. Progressive in terms of individual rights, but he was always going to be left of center at best, economically.

I was very pissed off that bankers and WS types didn't go to jail. Not sure of the dynamics involved in all this, and what could, or could not, have been done, but examples should have been made.

You have an agenda...that is all I'm going to say. Berners are trying to do their tear-down of the Democratic party right now, and Obama getting some play post-office is scaring them, as he has talked about getting involved in creating political leaders for the future. Berners and the GOP are doing the same to Chelsea Clinton...and both Berners and Trumpets are still putting out anti-HRC stuff over social media. Sad thing is that the GOP is happy to encourage this...I'm sure they have some folks posing as Berners, and they know how to trigger you folks. They are using you...I hope you actually understand this.

Meanwhile, Bernie is still in the spotlight, and instead of anointing successors, he seems to be running again. Instead of helping to build a coalition to take Congress back in 2018 he makes comments about the Democrats which will only lead to division and the GOP maintaining their superiority in the House and Senate.

Pushing the Dems left is fine with me...I'm registered Indy, but Sanders seems to lack the tact and nuance to get his points across without sowing division in a party he doesn't even belong to. Not stepping in to quiet his crowd while Perez was getting booed was a sign of cowardice or a total lack of awareness...or does he just not care?

For an organizer, he seems woefully ignorant of coalition building, which ALWAYS involves compromise.

And if you think Bernie won't be going on the speaker circuit if he manages to not die in political office, you are kind of ignorant. He will do the same, and I will have no problem with another guy who has always been a public servant making $$ after "retiring."

I never go upset with Bush2.0, Cheney, and others from that administration who I hate with a passion, getting speaking fees...that is how it works when you are retired.

We will see what Obama does as an out of office political leader and how he uses his money and influence, but to cry about one of the most popular men in the world making money on the speakers circuit makes me believe there are other reasons for your dissatisfaction.

Well pat yourself on the head for guessing that Obama wasn't going to be anything but nominally progressive. In your great wisdom did you see Obama being to the right of Bush on many issues? See that one coming Nostradamus?

I didnt see Obama appointing some of the same people responsible for the crash to oversee the recovery. Not just talking about from the same industry, but the very same people,like Larry Summers.

I didnt see Obama prosecuting more leakers,reporters, of goverment malfeasance than all other president combined.

I didn't see Obama opening up our coastline to oil drilling, even while the BP disaster was going on. Have to give Obama credit for hiding all that oil with Corexit for BP. A substance so toxic that its been banned in large parts of the world. But your moderate president thought it would make a great dispersant. The gulf coast is still recovering, know that from firsthand experience. If Bush had done something like this....

I also didnt know that Obama would prosecute fewer corporate criminals in 8 years than George W Bush, fewer than any president in more than 40 years, right after the biggest orgy of corporate fraud and criminality in US history. But you saw that coming right?

Didnt know that he was lying through his teeth when he was campaigning for the ACA, telling people there would be a public option, when he had already made a deal to kill it. He made a deal with big Pharma to keep prices high. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation proposal from the 1990s, the same Heritage foundation who is consulting Trump on who to hire in his administration.


How about the NDAA? Did you see him making it legal for the president to order the excecution of any American, anywhere in the world (including the US) without a trial or charges? Obama spent 8 years building the framework for an authoritarian state and gift wrapped it for Trump. But you saw that coming right? I was warning this board about it for years. That I did see coming.

As for Bernie, he talks a good game but its mostly talk. If Sanders were serious about changing things he would have left the party, stopped caucusing with them, and formed a new one. I would have voted for him for president, but beyond that, he's a useful tool for the Dems.

The problem with talking about the center is that it has been moving to the right since the 80s. You can go back to Jimmy Carter deregulating the airline industry, but it really started moving to the right with Bill Clinton, and his triangulation strategy.

Always moving to the right of wherever the Dems were at the time to hold the fictitious center, which moved the democratic party away from its traditional mission of representing the working class to that of representating big business, and high income professionals. Obama not only followed that strategy, he went to the right of republicans at times, in a big way.

So yes, I do have an agenda. Its not hearing any more bull**** about the center. It keeps moving right with voters like you leading the way. Telling folks like me to keep moving with it.


All I can say is keep up this way of thinking and you will get Trump or a second term and the Congress will remain GOP controlled.

With all her warts...AND I WAS NOT A HILLARY SYCOPHANT...she would have won without Russian interference and the final Comey letter.

The Bernie teardown and sniping at the Dem party will only hurt...If this is anyone's agenda it is a fool's quest.

In some ways you are not unlike Bannon, who has a similar goal to you, it would seem.

We already see Trump gutting things you probably think are important, and he got a right-wing justice in with help from McConnell...

Deal with the hole in the dam...and then build a new one. You let the GOP keep the Senate and you will get more justices, and future efforts will be chopped down.

You see so all those trees but are truly ignorant of the forest. You helped put Trump in to make a political point and take revenge against the better candidate...now you get to pay for your foolishness.

So continue to be Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" and watch things you probably support, destroyed for the sake of remaining pure to your cause.

Congrats.

This is just way out of line. Don't jump to conclusions about somebody's political views based on three posts. We had a politics thread that was about a 1000 pages long and Gustav never once supported or aligned with anything Trump. Not even remotely close.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

5/2/2017  4:14 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. Just a reminder.

Not as simple as that...and there were changes later... but hey, if you want to make an absolute statement, that is your thing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/38/repeal-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-higher-incomes/

Obama did exactly what I said he did, he extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. He also tried in his "Grand Bargain" to offer deep cuts to SS, Medicare, and medicaid, in exchange for an increase in taxes.

Obama was a neoliberal, too many democrats have trouble accepting that fact. Progressives don't offer to take a knife to the safety net in the the middle of the worst financial crisis since the great depression.


Again...not a black and white issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-security-expansion_us_5751f92de4b0eb20fa0e0142

Again, you oversimplify a fluid political "conversation" taking place under terrible economic circumstances. That is how politics works, I might add.

Who ever said Obama was a progressive, by the way? When he was elected I told everyone I knew, including my girlfriends crazy Bush loving mom, that he was much more middle of the road as a thinker. Much of the hatred against him was racial in its origin, and Trump was a contributor to this, but also rednecks like Mitch McConnell who was to hold so much power, and dedicate his life to obstructionism.

Always have to remember that he did not come into a situation where he could do his own thing...His presidency will always be judged by how he dealt with the recession. With a normal economy and support in Congress we have no idea what he might have accomplished or attempted to accomplish.

Moderate? Thats pretty funny. The man ran on a progressive platform, and governed as a fiscal conservative. Obama stocked the Bowles/Simpson commission aka the "Catfood Commission" with fiscal conservatives who (to no one's surprise) recommended that the answer to the deficit wasnt to make corporations pay the trillions in taxes they have been avoiding, to make Wall Street pay for their role in the crash, the answer was to gut social programs. He got the outcome he wanted.

Obama had a mandate and control of congress to make sure anything as bad as this recession didnt happen again. The banks and the derivatives market are bigger than ever. No top exec went to jail, the conditions that caused the crash remain, and now Obama is cashing in. Nothing moderate about that.


He was never going to be a progressive President...I said it at the time he ran to people I knew and worked with, and I was right. People who thought differently were foolish...no other way to put it. Progressive in terms of individual rights, but he was always going to be left of center at best, economically.

I was very pissed off that bankers and WS types didn't go to jail. Not sure of the dynamics involved in all this, and what could, or could not, have been done, but examples should have been made.

You have an agenda...that is all I'm going to say. Berners are trying to do their tear-down of the Democratic party right now, and Obama getting some play post-office is scaring them, as he has talked about getting involved in creating political leaders for the future. Berners and the GOP are doing the same to Chelsea Clinton...and both Berners and Trumpets are still putting out anti-HRC stuff over social media. Sad thing is that the GOP is happy to encourage this...I'm sure they have some folks posing as Berners, and they know how to trigger you folks. They are using you...I hope you actually understand this.

Meanwhile, Bernie is still in the spotlight, and instead of anointing successors, he seems to be running again. Instead of helping to build a coalition to take Congress back in 2018 he makes comments about the Democrats which will only lead to division and the GOP maintaining their superiority in the House and Senate.

Pushing the Dems left is fine with me...I'm registered Indy, but Sanders seems to lack the tact and nuance to get his points across without sowing division in a party he doesn't even belong to. Not stepping in to quiet his crowd while Perez was getting booed was a sign of cowardice or a total lack of awareness...or does he just not care?

For an organizer, he seems woefully ignorant of coalition building, which ALWAYS involves compromise.

And if you think Bernie won't be going on the speaker circuit if he manages to not die in political office, you are kind of ignorant. He will do the same, and I will have no problem with another guy who has always been a public servant making $$ after "retiring."

I never go upset with Bush2.0, Cheney, and others from that administration who I hate with a passion, getting speaking fees...that is how it works when you are retired.

We will see what Obama does as an out of office political leader and how he uses his money and influence, but to cry about one of the most popular men in the world making money on the speakers circuit makes me believe there are other reasons for your dissatisfaction.

Well pat yourself on the head for guessing that Obama wasn't going to be anything but nominally progressive. In your great wisdom did you see Obama being to the right of Bush on many issues? See that one coming Nostradamus?

I didnt see Obama appointing some of the same people responsible for the crash to oversee the recovery. Not just talking about from the same industry, but the very same people,like Larry Summers.

I didnt see Obama prosecuting more leakers,reporters, of goverment malfeasance than all other president combined.

I didn't see Obama opening up our coastline to oil drilling, even while the BP disaster was going on. Have to give Obama credit for hiding all that oil with Corexit for BP. A substance so toxic that its been banned in large parts of the world. But your moderate president thought it would make a great dispersant. The gulf coast is still recovering, know that from firsthand experience. If Bush had done something like this....

I also didnt know that Obama would prosecute fewer corporate criminals in 8 years than George W Bush, fewer than any president in more than 40 years, right after the biggest orgy of corporate fraud and criminality in US history. But you saw that coming right?

Didnt know that he was lying through his teeth when he was campaigning for the ACA, telling people there would be a public option, when he had already made a deal to kill it. He made a deal with big Pharma to keep prices high. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation proposal from the 1990s, the same Heritage foundation who is consulting Trump on who to hire in his administration.


How about the NDAA? Did you see him making it legal for the president to order the excecution of any American, anywhere in the world (including the US) without a trial or charges? Obama spent 8 years building the framework for an authoritarian state and gift wrapped it for Trump. But you saw that coming right? I was warning this board about it for years. That I did see coming.

As for Bernie, he talks a good game but its mostly talk. If Sanders were serious about changing things he would have left the party, stopped caucusing with them, and formed a new one. I would have voted for him for president, but beyond that, he's a useful tool for the Dems.

The problem with talking about the center is that it has been moving to the right since the 80s. You can go back to Jimmy Carter deregulating the airline industry, but it really started moving to the right with Bill Clinton, and his triangulation strategy.

Always moving to the right of wherever the Dems were at the time to hold the fictitious center, which moved the democratic party away from its traditional mission of representing the working class to that of representating big business, and high income professionals. Obama not only followed that strategy, he went to the right of republicans at times, in a big way.

So yes, I do have an agenda. Its not hearing any more bull**** about the center. It keeps moving right with voters like you leading the way. Telling folks like me to keep moving with it.


All I can say is keep up this way of thinking and you will get Trump or a second term and the Congress will remain GOP controlled.

With all her warts...AND I WAS NOT A HILLARY SYCOPHANT...she would have won without Russian interference and the final Comey letter.

The Bernie teardown and sniping at the Dem party will only hurt...If this is anyone's agenda it is a fool's quest.

In some ways you are not unlike Bannon, who has a similar goal to you, it would seem.

We already see Trump gutting things you probably think are important, and he got a right-wing justice in with help from McConnell...

Deal with the hole in the dam...and then build a new one. You let the GOP keep the Senate and you will get more justices, and future efforts will be chopped down.

You see so all those trees but are truly ignorant of the forest. You helped put Trump in to make a political point and take revenge against the better candidate...now you get to pay for your foolishness.

So continue to be Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" and watch things you probably support, destroyed for the sake of remaining pure to your cause.

Congrats.

If you really must insist on name calling as you have throughout this exchange, congrats on being a sociopath, you ignorant POS. Nothing I cited didnt even make you want to give even a cursory acknowledgment of some of the truly dangerous, destructive, things Obama has done as president. Policies no president has ever pushed before, because they were so radical.

You're like a Trump supporter, there doesn't seem to be a limit to what you will whitewash to support your guy.

If you honestly believe that it was my fault that the democratic party pushed through a rigged system, the most deeply unpopular politican to run for president ever, over someone far more popular, who filled stadiums, who always polled better against Trump. Then you're too ****ing stupid for words.

Steve Bannon wants to destroy the system, that includes all regulations that keep him and his friends from getting everything they can lay their hands on. He is a white nationalist, anti muslim, wants to start World War 3. If you can find anything Ive written that even suggests Im in favor of these any of these things, please provide it now.

Angry young man? No, an old man who has seen enough not to fall for lesser evilism anymore. A majority of polls say that voters believe the democratic party doesn't care about their concerns, is out of touch with what's going on outside of Washington. Why should they when they have morons like you to vote for them, to cover for them, no matter what they do?


Triggered?? I think that is what they call this response.

Berners want a tear down of the Dem party...Bannon wants a national tear down.

We call this an "analogy" in the adult world.


One a leads to a splitting of the Democratic party which will lead to a second term for Trump and the GOP maintaining complete control of Congress...This is quite plausible


Another that would lead to much worse...but has little or no chance of happening.


Right now I see folks who support the former as more dangerous for the fringe types who support the Bannon way.

Sorry, but you deserve responsibility for putting into power the most dangerously ignorant and unqualified man ever placed into office over a flawed, but still competent HRC... and now Bernie and company are putting a 2018 rebound into jeopardy because they lack the political tact.

Many things need to be changed, but Berners blew it they not only decided to turn against HRC for Prez, but also allowed the GOP to take the Senate. If they were a force they could have gone against HRC but still voted for legislators to build a buffer against Trump.

If Bernie had not been building a cult of personality based movement...if he had been an organizer looking at the big picture, his people could have helped take the Senate for the Dems, even if all their candidates were not Bernie approved.

Naive politics got Trump elected...and will keep him in office for a second term with a GOP Congress that will allow the Supreme Court to turn right for the next quarter century and make it impossible for the environmental movement to recover.

2018 is all that matters at this moment- and you need a united effort to take back the Congress ...folks who don't see this and feel things have to be exactly how they want them to be happy are naive.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

5/2/2017  4:26 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. Just a reminder.

Not as simple as that...and there were changes later... but hey, if you want to make an absolute statement, that is your thing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/38/repeal-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-higher-incomes/

Obama did exactly what I said he did, he extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. He also tried in his "Grand Bargain" to offer deep cuts to SS, Medicare, and medicaid, in exchange for an increase in taxes.

Obama was a neoliberal, too many democrats have trouble accepting that fact. Progressives don't offer to take a knife to the safety net in the the middle of the worst financial crisis since the great depression.


Again...not a black and white issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-security-expansion_us_5751f92de4b0eb20fa0e0142

Again, you oversimplify a fluid political "conversation" taking place under terrible economic circumstances. That is how politics works, I might add.

Who ever said Obama was a progressive, by the way? When he was elected I told everyone I knew, including my girlfriends crazy Bush loving mom, that he was much more middle of the road as a thinker. Much of the hatred against him was racial in its origin, and Trump was a contributor to this, but also rednecks like Mitch McConnell who was to hold so much power, and dedicate his life to obstructionism.

Always have to remember that he did not come into a situation where he could do his own thing...His presidency will always be judged by how he dealt with the recession. With a normal economy and support in Congress we have no idea what he might have accomplished or attempted to accomplish.

Moderate? Thats pretty funny. The man ran on a progressive platform, and governed as a fiscal conservative. Obama stocked the Bowles/Simpson commission aka the "Catfood Commission" with fiscal conservatives who (to no one's surprise) recommended that the answer to the deficit wasnt to make corporations pay the trillions in taxes they have been avoiding, to make Wall Street pay for their role in the crash, the answer was to gut social programs. He got the outcome he wanted.

Obama had a mandate and control of congress to make sure anything as bad as this recession didnt happen again. The banks and the derivatives market are bigger than ever. No top exec went to jail, the conditions that caused the crash remain, and now Obama is cashing in. Nothing moderate about that.


He was never going to be a progressive President...I said it at the time he ran to people I knew and worked with, and I was right. People who thought differently were foolish...no other way to put it. Progressive in terms of individual rights, but he was always going to be left of center at best, economically.

I was very pissed off that bankers and WS types didn't go to jail. Not sure of the dynamics involved in all this, and what could, or could not, have been done, but examples should have been made.

You have an agenda...that is all I'm going to say. Berners are trying to do their tear-down of the Democratic party right now, and Obama getting some play post-office is scaring them, as he has talked about getting involved in creating political leaders for the future. Berners and the GOP are doing the same to Chelsea Clinton...and both Berners and Trumpets are still putting out anti-HRC stuff over social media. Sad thing is that the GOP is happy to encourage this...I'm sure they have some folks posing as Berners, and they know how to trigger you folks. They are using you...I hope you actually understand this.

Meanwhile, Bernie is still in the spotlight, and instead of anointing successors, he seems to be running again. Instead of helping to build a coalition to take Congress back in 2018 he makes comments about the Democrats which will only lead to division and the GOP maintaining their superiority in the House and Senate.

Pushing the Dems left is fine with me...I'm registered Indy, but Sanders seems to lack the tact and nuance to get his points across without sowing division in a party he doesn't even belong to. Not stepping in to quiet his crowd while Perez was getting booed was a sign of cowardice or a total lack of awareness...or does he just not care?

For an organizer, he seems woefully ignorant of coalition building, which ALWAYS involves compromise.

And if you think Bernie won't be going on the speaker circuit if he manages to not die in political office, you are kind of ignorant. He will do the same, and I will have no problem with another guy who has always been a public servant making $$ after "retiring."

I never go upset with Bush2.0, Cheney, and others from that administration who I hate with a passion, getting speaking fees...that is how it works when you are retired.

We will see what Obama does as an out of office political leader and how he uses his money and influence, but to cry about one of the most popular men in the world making money on the speakers circuit makes me believe there are other reasons for your dissatisfaction.

Well pat yourself on the head for guessing that Obama wasn't going to be anything but nominally progressive. In your great wisdom did you see Obama being to the right of Bush on many issues? See that one coming Nostradamus?

I didnt see Obama appointing some of the same people responsible for the crash to oversee the recovery. Not just talking about from the same industry, but the very same people,like Larry Summers.

I didnt see Obama prosecuting more leakers,reporters, of goverment malfeasance than all other president combined.

I didn't see Obama opening up our coastline to oil drilling, even while the BP disaster was going on. Have to give Obama credit for hiding all that oil with Corexit for BP. A substance so toxic that its been banned in large parts of the world. But your moderate president thought it would make a great dispersant. The gulf coast is still recovering, know that from firsthand experience. If Bush had done something like this....

I also didnt know that Obama would prosecute fewer corporate criminals in 8 years than George W Bush, fewer than any president in more than 40 years, right after the biggest orgy of corporate fraud and criminality in US history. But you saw that coming right?

Didnt know that he was lying through his teeth when he was campaigning for the ACA, telling people there would be a public option, when he had already made a deal to kill it. He made a deal with big Pharma to keep prices high. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation proposal from the 1990s, the same Heritage foundation who is consulting Trump on who to hire in his administration.


How about the NDAA? Did you see him making it legal for the president to order the excecution of any American, anywhere in the world (including the US) without a trial or charges? Obama spent 8 years building the framework for an authoritarian state and gift wrapped it for Trump. But you saw that coming right? I was warning this board about it for years. That I did see coming.

As for Bernie, he talks a good game but its mostly talk. If Sanders were serious about changing things he would have left the party, stopped caucusing with them, and formed a new one. I would have voted for him for president, but beyond that, he's a useful tool for the Dems.

The problem with talking about the center is that it has been moving to the right since the 80s. You can go back to Jimmy Carter deregulating the airline industry, but it really started moving to the right with Bill Clinton, and his triangulation strategy.

Always moving to the right of wherever the Dems were at the time to hold the fictitious center, which moved the democratic party away from its traditional mission of representing the working class to that of representating big business, and high income professionals. Obama not only followed that strategy, he went to the right of republicans at times, in a big way.

So yes, I do have an agenda. Its not hearing any more bull**** about the center. It keeps moving right with voters like you leading the way. Telling folks like me to keep moving with it.


All I can say is keep up this way of thinking and you will get Trump or a second term and the Congress will remain GOP controlled.

With all her warts...AND I WAS NOT A HILLARY SYCOPHANT...she would have won without Russian interference and the final Comey letter.

The Bernie teardown and sniping at the Dem party will only hurt...If this is anyone's agenda it is a fool's quest.

In some ways you are not unlike Bannon, who has a similar goal to you, it would seem.

We already see Trump gutting things you probably think are important, and he got a right-wing justice in with help from McConnell...

Deal with the hole in the dam...and then build a new one. You let the GOP keep the Senate and you will get more justices, and future efforts will be chopped down.

You see so all those trees but are truly ignorant of the forest. You helped put Trump in to make a political point and take revenge against the better candidate...now you get to pay for your foolishness.

So continue to be Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" and watch things you probably support, destroyed for the sake of remaining pure to your cause.

Congrats.

If you really must insist on name calling as you have throughout this exchange, congrats on being a sociopath, you ignorant POS. Nothing I cited didnt even make you want to give even a cursory acknowledgment of some of the truly dangerous, destructive, things Obama has done as president. Policies no president has ever pushed before, because they were so radical.

You're like a Trump supporter, there doesn't seem to be a limit to what you will whitewash to support your guy.

If you honestly believe that it was my fault that the democratic party pushed through a rigged system, the most deeply unpopular politican to run for president ever, over someone far more popular, who filled stadiums, who always polled better against Trump. Then you're too ****ing stupid for words.

Steve Bannon wants to destroy the system, that includes all regulations that keep him and his friends from getting everything they can lay their hands on. He is a white nationalist, anti muslim, wants to start World War 3. If you can find anything Ive written that even suggests Im in favor of these any of these things, please provide it now.

Angry young man? No, an old man who has seen enough not to fall for lesser evilism anymore. A majority of polls say that voters believe the democratic party doesn't care about their concerns, is out of touch with what's going on outside of Washington. Why should they when they have morons like you to vote for them, to cover for them, no matter what they do?


Triggered?? I think that is what they call this response.

Berners want a tear down of the Dem party...Bannon wants a national tear down.

We call this an "analogy" in the adult world.


One a leads to a splitting of the Democratic party which will lead to a second term for Trump and the GOP maintaining complete control of Congress...This is quite plausible


Another that would lead to much worse...but has little or no chance of happening.


Right now I see folks who support the former as more dangerous for the fringe types who support the Bannon way.

Sorry, but you deserve responsibility for putting into power the most dangerously ignorant and unqualified man ever placed into office over a flawed, but still competent HRC... and now Bernie and company are putting a 2018 rebound into jeopardy because they lack the political tact.

Many things need to be changed, but Berners blew it they not only decided to turn against HRC for Prez, but also allowed the GOP to take the Senate. If they were a force they could have gone against HRC but still voted for legislators to build a buffer against Trump.

If Bernie had not been building a cult of personality based movement...if he had been an organizer looking at the big picture, his people could have helped take the Senate for the Dems, even if all their candidates were not Bernie approved.

Naive politics got Trump elected...and will keep him in office for a second term with a GOP Congress that will allow the Supreme Court to turn right for the next quarter century and make it impossible for the environmental movement to recover.

2018 is all that matters at this moment- and you need a united effort to take back the Congress ...folks who don't see this and feel things have to be exactly how they want them to be happy are naive.

Lump me with the Berners then. What you have posted is pure sophistry. If all the Bernie people had voted Hillary to victory the centrist Dems would have seen that as validation of their scumbag policies to cozy up with Wall St. They got their ass handed to them because they are out of touch with the people they claim to represent. Naive politics didn't get Trump elected. The least popular candidate ever to run for president got him elected. I am tired of watching the centrist dems bending over for the right wing agenda. And if that means 4 more years of Trump after this, I'll do that too. I fukking hate hypocrites.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

5/2/2017  4:38 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. Just a reminder.

Not as simple as that...and there were changes later... but hey, if you want to make an absolute statement, that is your thing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/38/repeal-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-higher-incomes/

Obama did exactly what I said he did, he extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. He also tried in his "Grand Bargain" to offer deep cuts to SS, Medicare, and medicaid, in exchange for an increase in taxes.

Obama was a neoliberal, too many democrats have trouble accepting that fact. Progressives don't offer to take a knife to the safety net in the the middle of the worst financial crisis since the great depression.


Again...not a black and white issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-security-expansion_us_5751f92de4b0eb20fa0e0142

Again, you oversimplify a fluid political "conversation" taking place under terrible economic circumstances. That is how politics works, I might add.

Who ever said Obama was a progressive, by the way? When he was elected I told everyone I knew, including my girlfriends crazy Bush loving mom, that he was much more middle of the road as a thinker. Much of the hatred against him was racial in its origin, and Trump was a contributor to this, but also rednecks like Mitch McConnell who was to hold so much power, and dedicate his life to obstructionism.

Always have to remember that he did not come into a situation where he could do his own thing...His presidency will always be judged by how he dealt with the recession. With a normal economy and support in Congress we have no idea what he might have accomplished or attempted to accomplish.

Moderate? Thats pretty funny. The man ran on a progressive platform, and governed as a fiscal conservative. Obama stocked the Bowles/Simpson commission aka the "Catfood Commission" with fiscal conservatives who (to no one's surprise) recommended that the answer to the deficit wasnt to make corporations pay the trillions in taxes they have been avoiding, to make Wall Street pay for their role in the crash, the answer was to gut social programs. He got the outcome he wanted.

Obama had a mandate and control of congress to make sure anything as bad as this recession didnt happen again. The banks and the derivatives market are bigger than ever. No top exec went to jail, the conditions that caused the crash remain, and now Obama is cashing in. Nothing moderate about that.


He was never going to be a progressive President...I said it at the time he ran to people I knew and worked with, and I was right. People who thought differently were foolish...no other way to put it. Progressive in terms of individual rights, but he was always going to be left of center at best, economically.

I was very pissed off that bankers and WS types didn't go to jail. Not sure of the dynamics involved in all this, and what could, or could not, have been done, but examples should have been made.

You have an agenda...that is all I'm going to say. Berners are trying to do their tear-down of the Democratic party right now, and Obama getting some play post-office is scaring them, as he has talked about getting involved in creating political leaders for the future. Berners and the GOP are doing the same to Chelsea Clinton...and both Berners and Trumpets are still putting out anti-HRC stuff over social media. Sad thing is that the GOP is happy to encourage this...I'm sure they have some folks posing as Berners, and they know how to trigger you folks. They are using you...I hope you actually understand this.

Meanwhile, Bernie is still in the spotlight, and instead of anointing successors, he seems to be running again. Instead of helping to build a coalition to take Congress back in 2018 he makes comments about the Democrats which will only lead to division and the GOP maintaining their superiority in the House and Senate.

Pushing the Dems left is fine with me...I'm registered Indy, but Sanders seems to lack the tact and nuance to get his points across without sowing division in a party he doesn't even belong to. Not stepping in to quiet his crowd while Perez was getting booed was a sign of cowardice or a total lack of awareness...or does he just not care?

For an organizer, he seems woefully ignorant of coalition building, which ALWAYS involves compromise.

And if you think Bernie won't be going on the speaker circuit if he manages to not die in political office, you are kind of ignorant. He will do the same, and I will have no problem with another guy who has always been a public servant making $$ after "retiring."

I never go upset with Bush2.0, Cheney, and others from that administration who I hate with a passion, getting speaking fees...that is how it works when you are retired.

We will see what Obama does as an out of office political leader and how he uses his money and influence, but to cry about one of the most popular men in the world making money on the speakers circuit makes me believe there are other reasons for your dissatisfaction.

Well pat yourself on the head for guessing that Obama wasn't going to be anything but nominally progressive. In your great wisdom did you see Obama being to the right of Bush on many issues? See that one coming Nostradamus?

I didnt see Obama appointing some of the same people responsible for the crash to oversee the recovery. Not just talking about from the same industry, but the very same people,like Larry Summers.

I didnt see Obama prosecuting more leakers,reporters, of goverment malfeasance than all other president combined.

I didn't see Obama opening up our coastline to oil drilling, even while the BP disaster was going on. Have to give Obama credit for hiding all that oil with Corexit for BP. A substance so toxic that its been banned in large parts of the world. But your moderate president thought it would make a great dispersant. The gulf coast is still recovering, know that from firsthand experience. If Bush had done something like this....

I also didnt know that Obama would prosecute fewer corporate criminals in 8 years than George W Bush, fewer than any president in more than 40 years, right after the biggest orgy of corporate fraud and criminality in US history. But you saw that coming right?

Didnt know that he was lying through his teeth when he was campaigning for the ACA, telling people there would be a public option, when he had already made a deal to kill it. He made a deal with big Pharma to keep prices high. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation proposal from the 1990s, the same Heritage foundation who is consulting Trump on who to hire in his administration.


How about the NDAA? Did you see him making it legal for the president to order the excecution of any American, anywhere in the world (including the US) without a trial or charges? Obama spent 8 years building the framework for an authoritarian state and gift wrapped it for Trump. But you saw that coming right? I was warning this board about it for years. That I did see coming.

As for Bernie, he talks a good game but its mostly talk. If Sanders were serious about changing things he would have left the party, stopped caucusing with them, and formed a new one. I would have voted for him for president, but beyond that, he's a useful tool for the Dems.

The problem with talking about the center is that it has been moving to the right since the 80s. You can go back to Jimmy Carter deregulating the airline industry, but it really started moving to the right with Bill Clinton, and his triangulation strategy.

Always moving to the right of wherever the Dems were at the time to hold the fictitious center, which moved the democratic party away from its traditional mission of representing the working class to that of representating big business, and high income professionals. Obama not only followed that strategy, he went to the right of republicans at times, in a big way.

So yes, I do have an agenda. Its not hearing any more bull**** about the center. It keeps moving right with voters like you leading the way. Telling folks like me to keep moving with it.


All I can say is keep up this way of thinking and you will get Trump or a second term and the Congress will remain GOP controlled.

With all her warts...AND I WAS NOT A HILLARY SYCOPHANT...she would have won without Russian interference and the final Comey letter.

The Bernie teardown and sniping at the Dem party will only hurt...If this is anyone's agenda it is a fool's quest.

In some ways you are not unlike Bannon, who has a similar goal to you, it would seem.

We already see Trump gutting things you probably think are important, and he got a right-wing justice in with help from McConnell...

Deal with the hole in the dam...and then build a new one. You let the GOP keep the Senate and you will get more justices, and future efforts will be chopped down.

You see so all those trees but are truly ignorant of the forest. You helped put Trump in to make a political point and take revenge against the better candidate...now you get to pay for your foolishness.

So continue to be Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" and watch things you probably support, destroyed for the sake of remaining pure to your cause.

Congrats.

This is just way out of line. Don't jump to conclusions about somebody's political views based on three posts. We had a politics thread that was about a 1000 pages long and Gustav never once supported or aligned with anything Trump. Not even remotely close.

I know he is not a supporter of Trump...but his actions, and those of Sanders at this moment, are going to make it impossible for Dems to recapture Congress in 2018, and make it more probable that Trump gets a second term.

You don't have to be a Trump supporter to help him win.

A divided Democratic party spells doom. Sanders lacks to political tact to understand what he is doing at this point in time.

I ONLY care about 2018 and 2020 at this point...I don't care at all about competing ideologies within the Democratic party, even if I tend to be more favorable to Sanders based on my political pedigree.

People who cannot understand this are going to get Trump elected again, and he will use this division just as he and his Russian bots did in the last election to get one faction or the other in the Dem party not to vote.

This is a dangerous situation, and I'm not sure Sanders truly understands what he's doing as he seems to be tone deaf at times...but I do know that the poster in question does not get the big picture.

Limiting Trump's power is all that matters to me now...if that means everyone supporting Bernie if he gets the Dem nomination in 2020, that is fine with me...but others might not be as pragmatic as I am, and Bernie burning bridges of support now will not bode well for 2020.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

5/2/2017  4:47 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. Just a reminder.

Not as simple as that...and there were changes later... but hey, if you want to make an absolute statement, that is your thing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/38/repeal-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-higher-incomes/

Obama did exactly what I said he did, he extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. He also tried in his "Grand Bargain" to offer deep cuts to SS, Medicare, and medicaid, in exchange for an increase in taxes.

Obama was a neoliberal, too many democrats have trouble accepting that fact. Progressives don't offer to take a knife to the safety net in the the middle of the worst financial crisis since the great depression.


Again...not a black and white issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-security-expansion_us_5751f92de4b0eb20fa0e0142

Again, you oversimplify a fluid political "conversation" taking place under terrible economic circumstances. That is how politics works, I might add.

Who ever said Obama was a progressive, by the way? When he was elected I told everyone I knew, including my girlfriends crazy Bush loving mom, that he was much more middle of the road as a thinker. Much of the hatred against him was racial in its origin, and Trump was a contributor to this, but also rednecks like Mitch McConnell who was to hold so much power, and dedicate his life to obstructionism.

Always have to remember that he did not come into a situation where he could do his own thing...His presidency will always be judged by how he dealt with the recession. With a normal economy and support in Congress we have no idea what he might have accomplished or attempted to accomplish.

Moderate? Thats pretty funny. The man ran on a progressive platform, and governed as a fiscal conservative. Obama stocked the Bowles/Simpson commission aka the "Catfood Commission" with fiscal conservatives who (to no one's surprise) recommended that the answer to the deficit wasnt to make corporations pay the trillions in taxes they have been avoiding, to make Wall Street pay for their role in the crash, the answer was to gut social programs. He got the outcome he wanted.

Obama had a mandate and control of congress to make sure anything as bad as this recession didnt happen again. The banks and the derivatives market are bigger than ever. No top exec went to jail, the conditions that caused the crash remain, and now Obama is cashing in. Nothing moderate about that.


He was never going to be a progressive President...I said it at the time he ran to people I knew and worked with, and I was right. People who thought differently were foolish...no other way to put it. Progressive in terms of individual rights, but he was always going to be left of center at best, economically.

I was very pissed off that bankers and WS types didn't go to jail. Not sure of the dynamics involved in all this, and what could, or could not, have been done, but examples should have been made.

You have an agenda...that is all I'm going to say. Berners are trying to do their tear-down of the Democratic party right now, and Obama getting some play post-office is scaring them, as he has talked about getting involved in creating political leaders for the future. Berners and the GOP are doing the same to Chelsea Clinton...and both Berners and Trumpets are still putting out anti-HRC stuff over social media. Sad thing is that the GOP is happy to encourage this...I'm sure they have some folks posing as Berners, and they know how to trigger you folks. They are using you...I hope you actually understand this.

Meanwhile, Bernie is still in the spotlight, and instead of anointing successors, he seems to be running again. Instead of helping to build a coalition to take Congress back in 2018 he makes comments about the Democrats which will only lead to division and the GOP maintaining their superiority in the House and Senate.

Pushing the Dems left is fine with me...I'm registered Indy, but Sanders seems to lack the tact and nuance to get his points across without sowing division in a party he doesn't even belong to. Not stepping in to quiet his crowd while Perez was getting booed was a sign of cowardice or a total lack of awareness...or does he just not care?

For an organizer, he seems woefully ignorant of coalition building, which ALWAYS involves compromise.

And if you think Bernie won't be going on the speaker circuit if he manages to not die in political office, you are kind of ignorant. He will do the same, and I will have no problem with another guy who has always been a public servant making $$ after "retiring."

I never go upset with Bush2.0, Cheney, and others from that administration who I hate with a passion, getting speaking fees...that is how it works when you are retired.

We will see what Obama does as an out of office political leader and how he uses his money and influence, but to cry about one of the most popular men in the world making money on the speakers circuit makes me believe there are other reasons for your dissatisfaction.

Well pat yourself on the head for guessing that Obama wasn't going to be anything but nominally progressive. In your great wisdom did you see Obama being to the right of Bush on many issues? See that one coming Nostradamus?

I didnt see Obama appointing some of the same people responsible for the crash to oversee the recovery. Not just talking about from the same industry, but the very same people,like Larry Summers.

I didnt see Obama prosecuting more leakers,reporters, of goverment malfeasance than all other president combined.

I didn't see Obama opening up our coastline to oil drilling, even while the BP disaster was going on. Have to give Obama credit for hiding all that oil with Corexit for BP. A substance so toxic that its been banned in large parts of the world. But your moderate president thought it would make a great dispersant. The gulf coast is still recovering, know that from firsthand experience. If Bush had done something like this....

I also didnt know that Obama would prosecute fewer corporate criminals in 8 years than George W Bush, fewer than any president in more than 40 years, right after the biggest orgy of corporate fraud and criminality in US history. But you saw that coming right?

Didnt know that he was lying through his teeth when he was campaigning for the ACA, telling people there would be a public option, when he had already made a deal to kill it. He made a deal with big Pharma to keep prices high. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation proposal from the 1990s, the same Heritage foundation who is consulting Trump on who to hire in his administration.


How about the NDAA? Did you see him making it legal for the president to order the excecution of any American, anywhere in the world (including the US) without a trial or charges? Obama spent 8 years building the framework for an authoritarian state and gift wrapped it for Trump. But you saw that coming right? I was warning this board about it for years. That I did see coming.

As for Bernie, he talks a good game but its mostly talk. If Sanders were serious about changing things he would have left the party, stopped caucusing with them, and formed a new one. I would have voted for him for president, but beyond that, he's a useful tool for the Dems.

The problem with talking about the center is that it has been moving to the right since the 80s. You can go back to Jimmy Carter deregulating the airline industry, but it really started moving to the right with Bill Clinton, and his triangulation strategy.

Always moving to the right of wherever the Dems were at the time to hold the fictitious center, which moved the democratic party away from its traditional mission of representing the working class to that of representating big business, and high income professionals. Obama not only followed that strategy, he went to the right of republicans at times, in a big way.

So yes, I do have an agenda. Its not hearing any more bull**** about the center. It keeps moving right with voters like you leading the way. Telling folks like me to keep moving with it.


All I can say is keep up this way of thinking and you will get Trump or a second term and the Congress will remain GOP controlled.

With all her warts...AND I WAS NOT A HILLARY SYCOPHANT...she would have won without Russian interference and the final Comey letter.

The Bernie teardown and sniping at the Dem party will only hurt...If this is anyone's agenda it is a fool's quest.

In some ways you are not unlike Bannon, who has a similar goal to you, it would seem.

We already see Trump gutting things you probably think are important, and he got a right-wing justice in with help from McConnell...

Deal with the hole in the dam...and then build a new one. You let the GOP keep the Senate and you will get more justices, and future efforts will be chopped down.

You see so all those trees but are truly ignorant of the forest. You helped put Trump in to make a political point and take revenge against the better candidate...now you get to pay for your foolishness.

So continue to be Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" and watch things you probably support, destroyed for the sake of remaining pure to your cause.

Congrats.

If you really must insist on name calling as you have throughout this exchange, congrats on being a sociopath, you ignorant POS. Nothing I cited didnt even make you want to give even a cursory acknowledgment of some of the truly dangerous, destructive, things Obama has done as president. Policies no president has ever pushed before, because they were so radical.

You're like a Trump supporter, there doesn't seem to be a limit to what you will whitewash to support your guy.

If you honestly believe that it was my fault that the democratic party pushed through a rigged system, the most deeply unpopular politican to run for president ever, over someone far more popular, who filled stadiums, who always polled better against Trump. Then you're too ****ing stupid for words.

Steve Bannon wants to destroy the system, that includes all regulations that keep him and his friends from getting everything they can lay their hands on. He is a white nationalist, anti muslim, wants to start World War 3. If you can find anything Ive written that even suggests Im in favor of these any of these things, please provide it now.

Angry young man? No, an old man who has seen enough not to fall for lesser evilism anymore. A majority of polls say that voters believe the democratic party doesn't care about their concerns, is out of touch with what's going on outside of Washington. Why should they when they have morons like you to vote for them, to cover for them, no matter what they do?


Triggered?? I think that is what they call this response.

Berners want a tear down of the Dem party...Bannon wants a national tear down.

We call this an "analogy" in the adult world.


One a leads to a splitting of the Democratic party which will lead to a second term for Trump and the GOP maintaining complete control of Congress...This is quite plausible


Another that would lead to much worse...but has little or no chance of happening.


Right now I see folks who support the former as more dangerous for the fringe types who support the Bannon way.

Sorry, but you deserve responsibility for putting into power the most dangerously ignorant and unqualified man ever placed into office over a flawed, but still competent HRC... and now Bernie and company are putting a 2018 rebound into jeopardy because they lack the political tact.

Many things need to be changed, but Berners blew it they not only decided to turn against HRC for Prez, but also allowed the GOP to take the Senate. If they were a force they could have gone against HRC but still voted for legislators to build a buffer against Trump.

If Bernie had not been building a cult of personality based movement...if he had been an organizer looking at the big picture, his people could have helped take the Senate for the Dems, even if all their candidates were not Bernie approved.

Naive politics got Trump elected...and will keep him in office for a second term with a GOP Congress that will allow the Supreme Court to turn right for the next quarter century and make it impossible for the environmental movement to recover.

2018 is all that matters at this moment- and you need a united effort to take back the Congress ...folks who don't see this and feel things have to be exactly how they want them to be happy are naive.

Lump me with the Berners then. What you have posted is pure sophistry. If all the Bernie people had voted Hillary to victory the centrist Dems would have seen that as validation of their scumbag policies to cozy up with Wall St. They got their ass handed to them because they are out of touch with the people they claim to represent. Naive politics didn't get Trump elected. The least popular candidate ever to run for president got him elected. I am tired of watching the centrist dems bending over for the right wing agenda. And if that means 4 more years of Trump after this, I'll do that too. I fukking hate hypocrites.


We call this cutting off your nose to spite your face.

By the way...the "least popular candidate" got almost 3 million votes than Trump and had to deal with Russian hacks, up with Russian bots on social media, and the Comey letter...but hey...believe what you want...do what you want...BUT accept the consequences and take responsibility for the results.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

5/2/2017  5:10 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. Just a reminder.

Not as simple as that...and there were changes later... but hey, if you want to make an absolute statement, that is your thing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/38/repeal-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-higher-incomes/

Obama did exactly what I said he did, he extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. He also tried in his "Grand Bargain" to offer deep cuts to SS, Medicare, and medicaid, in exchange for an increase in taxes.

Obama was a neoliberal, too many democrats have trouble accepting that fact. Progressives don't offer to take a knife to the safety net in the the middle of the worst financial crisis since the great depression.


Again...not a black and white issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-security-expansion_us_5751f92de4b0eb20fa0e0142

Again, you oversimplify a fluid political "conversation" taking place under terrible economic circumstances. That is how politics works, I might add.

Who ever said Obama was a progressive, by the way? When he was elected I told everyone I knew, including my girlfriends crazy Bush loving mom, that he was much more middle of the road as a thinker. Much of the hatred against him was racial in its origin, and Trump was a contributor to this, but also rednecks like Mitch McConnell who was to hold so much power, and dedicate his life to obstructionism.

Always have to remember that he did not come into a situation where he could do his own thing...His presidency will always be judged by how he dealt with the recession. With a normal economy and support in Congress we have no idea what he might have accomplished or attempted to accomplish.

Moderate? Thats pretty funny. The man ran on a progressive platform, and governed as a fiscal conservative. Obama stocked the Bowles/Simpson commission aka the "Catfood Commission" with fiscal conservatives who (to no one's surprise) recommended that the answer to the deficit wasnt to make corporations pay the trillions in taxes they have been avoiding, to make Wall Street pay for their role in the crash, the answer was to gut social programs. He got the outcome he wanted.

Obama had a mandate and control of congress to make sure anything as bad as this recession didnt happen again. The banks and the derivatives market are bigger than ever. No top exec went to jail, the conditions that caused the crash remain, and now Obama is cashing in. Nothing moderate about that.


He was never going to be a progressive President...I said it at the time he ran to people I knew and worked with, and I was right. People who thought differently were foolish...no other way to put it. Progressive in terms of individual rights, but he was always going to be left of center at best, economically.

I was very pissed off that bankers and WS types didn't go to jail. Not sure of the dynamics involved in all this, and what could, or could not, have been done, but examples should have been made.

You have an agenda...that is all I'm going to say. Berners are trying to do their tear-down of the Democratic party right now, and Obama getting some play post-office is scaring them, as he has talked about getting involved in creating political leaders for the future. Berners and the GOP are doing the same to Chelsea Clinton...and both Berners and Trumpets are still putting out anti-HRC stuff over social media. Sad thing is that the GOP is happy to encourage this...I'm sure they have some folks posing as Berners, and they know how to trigger you folks. They are using you...I hope you actually understand this.

Meanwhile, Bernie is still in the spotlight, and instead of anointing successors, he seems to be running again. Instead of helping to build a coalition to take Congress back in 2018 he makes comments about the Democrats which will only lead to division and the GOP maintaining their superiority in the House and Senate.

Pushing the Dems left is fine with me...I'm registered Indy, but Sanders seems to lack the tact and nuance to get his points across without sowing division in a party he doesn't even belong to. Not stepping in to quiet his crowd while Perez was getting booed was a sign of cowardice or a total lack of awareness...or does he just not care?

For an organizer, he seems woefully ignorant of coalition building, which ALWAYS involves compromise.

And if you think Bernie won't be going on the speaker circuit if he manages to not die in political office, you are kind of ignorant. He will do the same, and I will have no problem with another guy who has always been a public servant making $$ after "retiring."

I never go upset with Bush2.0, Cheney, and others from that administration who I hate with a passion, getting speaking fees...that is how it works when you are retired.

We will see what Obama does as an out of office political leader and how he uses his money and influence, but to cry about one of the most popular men in the world making money on the speakers circuit makes me believe there are other reasons for your dissatisfaction.

Well pat yourself on the head for guessing that Obama wasn't going to be anything but nominally progressive. In your great wisdom did you see Obama being to the right of Bush on many issues? See that one coming Nostradamus?

I didnt see Obama appointing some of the same people responsible for the crash to oversee the recovery. Not just talking about from the same industry, but the very same people,like Larry Summers.

I didnt see Obama prosecuting more leakers,reporters, of goverment malfeasance than all other president combined.

I didn't see Obama opening up our coastline to oil drilling, even while the BP disaster was going on. Have to give Obama credit for hiding all that oil with Corexit for BP. A substance so toxic that its been banned in large parts of the world. But your moderate president thought it would make a great dispersant. The gulf coast is still recovering, know that from firsthand experience. If Bush had done something like this....

I also didnt know that Obama would prosecute fewer corporate criminals in 8 years than George W Bush, fewer than any president in more than 40 years, right after the biggest orgy of corporate fraud and criminality in US history. But you saw that coming right?

Didnt know that he was lying through his teeth when he was campaigning for the ACA, telling people there would be a public option, when he had already made a deal to kill it. He made a deal with big Pharma to keep prices high. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation proposal from the 1990s, the same Heritage foundation who is consulting Trump on who to hire in his administration.


How about the NDAA? Did you see him making it legal for the president to order the excecution of any American, anywhere in the world (including the US) without a trial or charges? Obama spent 8 years building the framework for an authoritarian state and gift wrapped it for Trump. But you saw that coming right? I was warning this board about it for years. That I did see coming.

As for Bernie, he talks a good game but its mostly talk. If Sanders were serious about changing things he would have left the party, stopped caucusing with them, and formed a new one. I would have voted for him for president, but beyond that, he's a useful tool for the Dems.

The problem with talking about the center is that it has been moving to the right since the 80s. You can go back to Jimmy Carter deregulating the airline industry, but it really started moving to the right with Bill Clinton, and his triangulation strategy.

Always moving to the right of wherever the Dems were at the time to hold the fictitious center, which moved the democratic party away from its traditional mission of representing the working class to that of representating big business, and high income professionals. Obama not only followed that strategy, he went to the right of republicans at times, in a big way.

So yes, I do have an agenda. Its not hearing any more bull**** about the center. It keeps moving right with voters like you leading the way. Telling folks like me to keep moving with it.


All I can say is keep up this way of thinking and you will get Trump or a second term and the Congress will remain GOP controlled.

With all her warts...AND I WAS NOT A HILLARY SYCOPHANT...she would have won without Russian interference and the final Comey letter.

The Bernie teardown and sniping at the Dem party will only hurt...If this is anyone's agenda it is a fool's quest.

In some ways you are not unlike Bannon, who has a similar goal to you, it would seem.

We already see Trump gutting things you probably think are important, and he got a right-wing justice in with help from McConnell...

Deal with the hole in the dam...and then build a new one. You let the GOP keep the Senate and you will get more justices, and future efforts will be chopped down.

You see so all those trees but are truly ignorant of the forest. You helped put Trump in to make a political point and take revenge against the better candidate...now you get to pay for your foolishness.

So continue to be Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" and watch things you probably support, destroyed for the sake of remaining pure to your cause.

Congrats.

If you really must insist on name calling as you have throughout this exchange, congrats on being a sociopath, you ignorant POS. Nothing I cited didnt even make you want to give even a cursory acknowledgment of some of the truly dangerous, destructive, things Obama has done as president. Policies no president has ever pushed before, because they were so radical.

You're like a Trump supporter, there doesn't seem to be a limit to what you will whitewash to support your guy.

If you honestly believe that it was my fault that the democratic party pushed through a rigged system, the most deeply unpopular politican to run for president ever, over someone far more popular, who filled stadiums, who always polled better against Trump. Then you're too ****ing stupid for words.

Steve Bannon wants to destroy the system, that includes all regulations that keep him and his friends from getting everything they can lay their hands on. He is a white nationalist, anti muslim, wants to start World War 3. If you can find anything Ive written that even suggests Im in favor of these any of these things, please provide it now.

Angry young man? No, an old man who has seen enough not to fall for lesser evilism anymore. A majority of polls say that voters believe the democratic party doesn't care about their concerns, is out of touch with what's going on outside of Washington. Why should they when they have morons like you to vote for them, to cover for them, no matter what they do?


Triggered?? I think that is what they call this response.

Berners want a tear down of the Dem party...Bannon wants a national tear down.

We call this an "analogy" in the adult world.


One a leads to a splitting of the Democratic party which will lead to a second term for Trump and the GOP maintaining complete control of Congress...This is quite plausible


Another that would lead to much worse...but has little or no chance of happening.


Right now I see folks who support the former as more dangerous for the fringe types who support the Bannon way.

Sorry, but you deserve responsibility for putting into power the most dangerously ignorant and unqualified man ever placed into office over a flawed, but still competent HRC... and now Bernie and company are putting a 2018 rebound into jeopardy because they lack the political tact.

Many things need to be changed, but Berners blew it they not only decided to turn against HRC for Prez, but also allowed the GOP to take the Senate. If they were a force they could have gone against HRC but still voted for legislators to build a buffer against Trump.

If Bernie had not been building a cult of personality based movement...if he had been an organizer looking at the big picture, his people could have helped take the Senate for the Dems, even if all their candidates were not Bernie approved.

Naive politics got Trump elected...and will keep him in office for a second term with a GOP Congress that will allow the Supreme Court to turn right for the next quarter century and make it impossible for the environmental movement to recover.

2018 is all that matters at this moment- and you need a united effort to take back the Congress ...folks who don't see this and feel things have to be exactly how they want them to be happy are naive.

Yes, being repeatedly insulted by someone talking out his ass does trigger a response, thank you Dr. Obvious.

The reason the democratic party suffered the worst defeat in more than 60 years after the last midterm, was that it became clear to many voters that democrats werent going to do anything about income inequality. No one was going jail, wall street got bailed out, and main street got the shaft.

You keep acting like you are the only adult in the room when you present a fanboy's defense of the democratic party.

Im not reading anything about how the democratic party has been captured by Wall Street, not hearing how under a democratic president, almost all the gains from the recovery, more than 90 percent went to the top one percent. How we've expanded the war on terror, or WTF they're calling it now.

All Im hearing from you is that a party, corrupt to the core, is entitled to my vote. Because Trump will be worse. Worse than what? Hillary Clinton was one of the biggest hawks in the senate, her first response to any crisis was military action. She wanted to put in a no fly zone over Syria which could have triggered word war 3 with the Russians. She was instrumental with her Lybia campaign (along with Obama) in helping turn ISIS into a global threat.

Clinton's top deputy Victoria Nuland, was caught on tape plotting how to overthrow a democratically elected govt (Ukraine) Eventually they did it by enabling Neo Nazis to overthrow the govt. Bannon, Trump, talk about, read about Nazis. Hillary Clinton's state dept enabled actual living, breathing, nazis to overthrow a govt. One of the reasons Putin hacked Clinton.

For someone who acts like he already knows everything, you have very limited understanding of current events. Most of the legislation that gave us a depression for all intents and purposes, were promoted, signed off on, during the Bill Clinton administration. Hillary made very clear back then and now, that she had a role in these decisions. That she was more than a traditional first lady.

So Im being told, that one of the politicians who was instrumental in pushing thorough legislation that exploded income inequality, crashed the economy. A prison bill that put more people in jail (mostly of color) than in Stalin's gulag's . A politican who favors military action over diplomacy, A politician who has lied and lied again to the American people. I have a repsonsibilty to vote for her, and the corrupt party who rigged the primaries for her. Get bent.

One good thing has come out of Trump being elected. People are becoming more politically active than we've seen in 50 years. Americans are starting to wake up to the fact that they are being played by both parties, well most people.

GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

5/2/2017  5:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/2/2017  5:56 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. Just a reminder.

Not as simple as that...and there were changes later... but hey, if you want to make an absolute statement, that is your thing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/38/repeal-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-higher-incomes/

Obama did exactly what I said he did, he extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. He also tried in his "Grand Bargain" to offer deep cuts to SS, Medicare, and medicaid, in exchange for an increase in taxes.

Obama was a neoliberal, too many democrats have trouble accepting that fact. Progressives don't offer to take a knife to the safety net in the the middle of the worst financial crisis since the great depression.


Again...not a black and white issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-security-expansion_us_5751f92de4b0eb20fa0e0142

Again, you oversimplify a fluid political "conversation" taking place under terrible economic circumstances. That is how politics works, I might add.

Who ever said Obama was a progressive, by the way? When he was elected I told everyone I knew, including my girlfriends crazy Bush loving mom, that he was much more middle of the road as a thinker. Much of the hatred against him was racial in its origin, and Trump was a contributor to this, but also rednecks like Mitch McConnell who was to hold so much power, and dedicate his life to obstructionism.

Always have to remember that he did not come into a situation where he could do his own thing...His presidency will always be judged by how he dealt with the recession. With a normal economy and support in Congress we have no idea what he might have accomplished or attempted to accomplish.

Moderate? Thats pretty funny. The man ran on a progressive platform, and governed as a fiscal conservative. Obama stocked the Bowles/Simpson commission aka the "Catfood Commission" with fiscal conservatives who (to no one's surprise) recommended that the answer to the deficit wasnt to make corporations pay the trillions in taxes they have been avoiding, to make Wall Street pay for their role in the crash, the answer was to gut social programs. He got the outcome he wanted.

Obama had a mandate and control of congress to make sure anything as bad as this recession didnt happen again. The banks and the derivatives market are bigger than ever. No top exec went to jail, the conditions that caused the crash remain, and now Obama is cashing in. Nothing moderate about that.


He was never going to be a progressive President...I said it at the time he ran to people I knew and worked with, and I was right. People who thought differently were foolish...no other way to put it. Progressive in terms of individual rights, but he was always going to be left of center at best, economically.

I was very pissed off that bankers and WS types didn't go to jail. Not sure of the dynamics involved in all this, and what could, or could not, have been done, but examples should have been made.

You have an agenda...that is all I'm going to say. Berners are trying to do their tear-down of the Democratic party right now, and Obama getting some play post-office is scaring them, as he has talked about getting involved in creating political leaders for the future. Berners and the GOP are doing the same to Chelsea Clinton...and both Berners and Trumpets are still putting out anti-HRC stuff over social media. Sad thing is that the GOP is happy to encourage this...I'm sure they have some folks posing as Berners, and they know how to trigger you folks. They are using you...I hope you actually understand this.

Meanwhile, Bernie is still in the spotlight, and instead of anointing successors, he seems to be running again. Instead of helping to build a coalition to take Congress back in 2018 he makes comments about the Democrats which will only lead to division and the GOP maintaining their superiority in the House and Senate.

Pushing the Dems left is fine with me...I'm registered Indy, but Sanders seems to lack the tact and nuance to get his points across without sowing division in a party he doesn't even belong to. Not stepping in to quiet his crowd while Perez was getting booed was a sign of cowardice or a total lack of awareness...or does he just not care?

For an organizer, he seems woefully ignorant of coalition building, which ALWAYS involves compromise.

And if you think Bernie won't be going on the speaker circuit if he manages to not die in political office, you are kind of ignorant. He will do the same, and I will have no problem with another guy who has always been a public servant making $$ after "retiring."

I never go upset with Bush2.0, Cheney, and others from that administration who I hate with a passion, getting speaking fees...that is how it works when you are retired.

We will see what Obama does as an out of office political leader and how he uses his money and influence, but to cry about one of the most popular men in the world making money on the speakers circuit makes me believe there are other reasons for your dissatisfaction.

Well pat yourself on the head for guessing that Obama wasn't going to be anything but nominally progressive. In your great wisdom did you see Obama being to the right of Bush on many issues? See that one coming Nostradamus?

I didnt see Obama appointing some of the same people responsible for the crash to oversee the recovery. Not just talking about from the same industry, but the very same people,like Larry Summers.

I didnt see Obama prosecuting more leakers,reporters, of goverment malfeasance than all other president combined.

I didn't see Obama opening up our coastline to oil drilling, even while the BP disaster was going on. Have to give Obama credit for hiding all that oil with Corexit for BP. A substance so toxic that its been banned in large parts of the world. But your moderate president thought it would make a great dispersant. The gulf coast is still recovering, know that from firsthand experience. If Bush had done something like this....

I also didnt know that Obama would prosecute fewer corporate criminals in 8 years than George W Bush, fewer than any president in more than 40 years, right after the biggest orgy of corporate fraud and criminality in US history. But you saw that coming right?

Didnt know that he was lying through his teeth when he was campaigning for the ACA, telling people there would be a public option, when he had already made a deal to kill it. He made a deal with big Pharma to keep prices high. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation proposal from the 1990s, the same Heritage foundation who is consulting Trump on who to hire in his administration.


How about the NDAA? Did you see him making it legal for the president to order the excecution of any American, anywhere in the world (including the US) without a trial or charges? Obama spent 8 years building the framework for an authoritarian state and gift wrapped it for Trump. But you saw that coming right? I was warning this board about it for years. That I did see coming.

As for Bernie, he talks a good game but its mostly talk. If Sanders were serious about changing things he would have left the party, stopped caucusing with them, and formed a new one. I would have voted for him for president, but beyond that, he's a useful tool for the Dems.

The problem with talking about the center is that it has been moving to the right since the 80s. You can go back to Jimmy Carter deregulating the airline industry, but it really started moving to the right with Bill Clinton, and his triangulation strategy.

Always moving to the right of wherever the Dems were at the time to hold the fictitious center, which moved the democratic party away from its traditional mission of representing the working class to that of representating big business, and high income professionals. Obama not only followed that strategy, he went to the right of republicans at times, in a big way.

So yes, I do have an agenda. Its not hearing any more bull**** about the center. It keeps moving right with voters like you leading the way. Telling folks like me to keep moving with it.


All I can say is keep up this way of thinking and you will get Trump or a second term and the Congress will remain GOP controlled.

With all her warts...AND I WAS NOT A HILLARY SYCOPHANT...she would have won without Russian interference and the final Comey letter.

The Bernie teardown and sniping at the Dem party will only hurt...If this is anyone's agenda it is a fool's quest.

In some ways you are not unlike Bannon, who has a similar goal to you, it would seem.

We already see Trump gutting things you probably think are important, and he got a right-wing justice in with help from McConnell...

Deal with the hole in the dam...and then build a new one. You let the GOP keep the Senate and you will get more justices, and future efforts will be chopped down.

You see so all those trees but are truly ignorant of the forest. You helped put Trump in to make a political point and take revenge against the better candidate...now you get to pay for your foolishness.

So continue to be Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" and watch things you probably support, destroyed for the sake of remaining pure to your cause.

Congrats.

If you really must insist on name calling as you have throughout this exchange, congrats on being a sociopath, you ignorant POS. Nothing I cited didnt even make you want to give even a cursory acknowledgment of some of the truly dangerous, destructive, things Obama has done as president. Policies no president has ever pushed before, because they were so radical.

You're like a Trump supporter, there doesn't seem to be a limit to what you will whitewash to support your guy.

If you honestly believe that it was my fault that the democratic party pushed through a rigged system, the most deeply unpopular politican to run for president ever, over someone far more popular, who filled stadiums, who always polled better against Trump. Then you're too ****ing stupid for words.

Steve Bannon wants to destroy the system, that includes all regulations that keep him and his friends from getting everything they can lay their hands on. He is a white nationalist, anti muslim, wants to start World War 3. If you can find anything Ive written that even suggests Im in favor of these any of these things, please provide it now.

Angry young man? No, an old man who has seen enough not to fall for lesser evilism anymore. A majority of polls say that voters believe the democratic party doesn't care about their concerns, is out of touch with what's going on outside of Washington. Why should they when they have morons like you to vote for them, to cover for them, no matter what they do?


Triggered?? I think that is what they call this response.

Berners want a tear down of the Dem party...Bannon wants a national tear down.

We call this an "analogy" in the adult world.


One a leads to a splitting of the Democratic party which will lead to a second term for Trump and the GOP maintaining complete control of Congress...This is quite plausible


Another that would lead to much worse...but has little or no chance of happening.


Right now I see folks who support the former as more dangerous for the fringe types who support the Bannon way.

Sorry, but you deserve responsibility for putting into power the most dangerously ignorant and unqualified man ever placed into office over a flawed, but still competent HRC... and now Bernie and company are putting a 2018 rebound into jeopardy because they lack the political tact.

Many things need to be changed, but Berners blew it they not only decided to turn against HRC for Prez, but also allowed the GOP to take the Senate. If they were a force they could have gone against HRC but still voted for legislators to build a buffer against Trump.

If Bernie had not been building a cult of personality based movement...if he had been an organizer looking at the big picture, his people could have helped take the Senate for the Dems, even if all their candidates were not Bernie approved.

Naive politics got Trump elected...and will keep him in office for a second term with a GOP Congress that will allow the Supreme Court to turn right for the next quarter century and make it impossible for the environmental movement to recover.

2018 is all that matters at this moment- and you need a united effort to take back the Congress ...folks who don't see this and feel things have to be exactly how they want them to be happy are naive.

Lump me with the Berners then. What you have posted is pure sophistry. If all the Bernie people had voted Hillary to victory the centrist Dems would have seen that as validation of their scumbag policies to cozy up with Wall St. They got their ass handed to them because they are out of touch with the people they claim to represent. Naive politics didn't get Trump elected. The least popular candidate ever to run for president got him elected. I am tired of watching the centrist dems bending over for the right wing agenda. And if that means 4 more years of Trump after this, I'll do that too. I fukking hate hypocrites.


We call this cutting off your nose to spite your face.

By the way...the "least popular candidate" got almost 3 million votes than Trump and had to deal with Russian hacks, up with Russian bots on social media, and the Comey letter...but hey...believe what you want...do what you want...BUT accept the consequences and take responsibility for the results.

Its all about the electoral votes. Unions, organizations, offered to canvas, staff members from states that Clinton lost begged her to put more resources into their districts. They were either told not to bother, or didn't hear back from them at all. This was a common theme during the campaign. Her "basket of deplorables" comment was as bad as Romney's "47 percent"

Clinton was so sure that she had the election in the bag, that she coasted when she should have been going hard right to the finish. But thats the fault of everyone who didnt vote for her. Unreal.

djsunyc
Posts: 44927
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
5/2/2017  9:08 PM
a little contrast...lets hear an educated person talk

Marv
Posts: 35540
Alba Posts: 69
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
5/3/2017  12:25 PM
First Opinion
Joe Kennedy: Trumpcare is a historic attack on mental health care

By Joe Kennedy III

May 3, 2017

Representative Joe Kennedy III listens on Capitol Hill in Washington as debate continues over the GOP's Obamacare replacement bill.
J. Scott Applewhite/AP

A woman recently walked into my Massachusetts office to talk about her daughter, who had been diagnosed with serious mental illness in 2007, when she was just 4 years old.

A decade later, the stories this mother shared with me are heartbreaking. The countless hospital visits. The fights with insurers and doctors and courts. The time her daughter was kept for 21 straight days in the emergency room as her family desperately searched up and down the East Coast for a single available treatment bed. The ache of watching the person you love most in the world struggle against a merciless disease.

This mother ended our conversation by looking me in the eye and saying, without a hint of bitterness or anger, “But we’ve been lucky. Compared to other people I know, we’ve been lucky.”

If this is luck in the American mental health system, all of us should be ashamed. With 1 in 5 of our neighbors suffering from mental illness, the time for tinkering around the margins of our broken system is over. American families and communities need deep and dramatic reform.

Instead, congressional Republicans are moving forward with efforts to make it harder and more costly for the average American to access mental health care. These efforts began last month, with a hastily drafted bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act. Although it thankfully failed to get the support it needed to secure a vote in Congress, its message to the mental health community was clear: be warned. The legislation, championed by President Trump and Speaker Paul Ryan, was the single largest attack on mental health care in recent history.

By removing guaranteed behavioral health coverage for those covered under Medicaid expansion, millions of people would have lost access to treatment for substance use disorders — in the midst of an opioid epidemic. By capping Medicaid spending for states, Trumpcare would have imperiled the largest insurer of mental health services in our country. The bill did nothing to address abysmal reimbursement rates for mental health providers. Nothing to infuse investment into the full continuum of care. And nothing to force insurance companies to stop skirting parity laws that require they treat mental illness as they do physical health.

Enough Americans spoke out against that dangerous bill that we were able to stop it in its tracks. But almost immediately, Republicans were back behind closed doors trying to revive it. Their second bill could soon see a vote on the House floor.

Unbelievably, it’s an even starker blow to those suffering from mental illness than its predecessor. The latest version of Trumpcare doesn’t just threaten access to behavioral health coverage for those on Medicaid, it threatens access to behavioral health coverage for everyone. Under the guise of flexibility, this bill would allow states and insurance companies to opt out of covering mental health care — not to mention other designated essential health benefits like maternity and emergency care. Premiums and deductibles would soar as a result. Any semblance of mental health parity would be extinguished. And current protections for those with preexisting conditions — which is particularly important when it comes to mental illness — would cease to exist.

This is not the debate Congress should be having during a mental health care crisis. We should be considering steps to vastly expand the transformative mental health reforms made by the ACA, not shrink them. It’s time to go even further.

We need deep investments across the entire continuum of care to connect patients with treatment before they reach crisis points. We need broader support for community health centers, which provide essential entry points for lower and middle-income Americans who struggle to find in-roads to our mental health system. We need increased Medicaid reimbursement rates to encourage a new generation of workers to pursue careers in the mental health field, dramatically increasing access in every community that needs it. And we need relentless enforcement of mental health parity to make insurers live up to the laws of this country, which already demand basic equity in the coverage and treatment of mental illness.

All too often, mental illness is relegated to the sidelines of our health care debates. It’s somehow still deemed less critical, less acute, less wholly devastating than physical disease. One in five Americans and the families who love them would tell you otherwise. From the depths of opioid addiction to the searing pain of eating disorders and the long, often lonely, road through anxiety and depression, we have abandoned too many people in a system that cannot meet their basic needs.

The 40 million Americans suffering from mental illness deserve better than the paltry “luck” of that young mother in my office. They deserve better than a health care bill that degrades them. They deserve a country that is there for them, without question or condition, in their time of deepest need.

Joe Kennedy III has served as the US representative for Massachusetts’s 4th Congressional District since 2013.
Contact the Author

Follow Joe on Twitter @RepJoeKennedy

https://www.statnews.com/2017/05/03/mental-health-care-trump-medicaid/

meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

5/3/2017  1:54 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. Just a reminder.

Not as simple as that...and there were changes later... but hey, if you want to make an absolute statement, that is your thing.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/38/repeal-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-higher-incomes/

Obama did exactly what I said he did, he extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in the middle of the recession. He also tried in his "Grand Bargain" to offer deep cuts to SS, Medicare, and medicaid, in exchange for an increase in taxes.

Obama was a neoliberal, too many democrats have trouble accepting that fact. Progressives don't offer to take a knife to the safety net in the the middle of the worst financial crisis since the great depression.


Again...not a black and white issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-security-expansion_us_5751f92de4b0eb20fa0e0142

Again, you oversimplify a fluid political "conversation" taking place under terrible economic circumstances. That is how politics works, I might add.

Who ever said Obama was a progressive, by the way? When he was elected I told everyone I knew, including my girlfriends crazy Bush loving mom, that he was much more middle of the road as a thinker. Much of the hatred against him was racial in its origin, and Trump was a contributor to this, but also rednecks like Mitch McConnell who was to hold so much power, and dedicate his life to obstructionism.

Always have to remember that he did not come into a situation where he could do his own thing...His presidency will always be judged by how he dealt with the recession. With a normal economy and support in Congress we have no idea what he might have accomplished or attempted to accomplish.

Moderate? Thats pretty funny. The man ran on a progressive platform, and governed as a fiscal conservative. Obama stocked the Bowles/Simpson commission aka the "Catfood Commission" with fiscal conservatives who (to no one's surprise) recommended that the answer to the deficit wasnt to make corporations pay the trillions in taxes they have been avoiding, to make Wall Street pay for their role in the crash, the answer was to gut social programs. He got the outcome he wanted.

Obama had a mandate and control of congress to make sure anything as bad as this recession didnt happen again. The banks and the derivatives market are bigger than ever. No top exec went to jail, the conditions that caused the crash remain, and now Obama is cashing in. Nothing moderate about that.


He was never going to be a progressive President...I said it at the time he ran to people I knew and worked with, and I was right. People who thought differently were foolish...no other way to put it. Progressive in terms of individual rights, but he was always going to be left of center at best, economically.

I was very pissed off that bankers and WS types didn't go to jail. Not sure of the dynamics involved in all this, and what could, or could not, have been done, but examples should have been made.

You have an agenda...that is all I'm going to say. Berners are trying to do their tear-down of the Democratic party right now, and Obama getting some play post-office is scaring them, as he has talked about getting involved in creating political leaders for the future. Berners and the GOP are doing the same to Chelsea Clinton...and both Berners and Trumpets are still putting out anti-HRC stuff over social media. Sad thing is that the GOP is happy to encourage this...I'm sure they have some folks posing as Berners, and they know how to trigger you folks. They are using you...I hope you actually understand this.

Meanwhile, Bernie is still in the spotlight, and instead of anointing successors, he seems to be running again. Instead of helping to build a coalition to take Congress back in 2018 he makes comments about the Democrats which will only lead to division and the GOP maintaining their superiority in the House and Senate.

Pushing the Dems left is fine with me...I'm registered Indy, but Sanders seems to lack the tact and nuance to get his points across without sowing division in a party he doesn't even belong to. Not stepping in to quiet his crowd while Perez was getting booed was a sign of cowardice or a total lack of awareness...or does he just not care?

For an organizer, he seems woefully ignorant of coalition building, which ALWAYS involves compromise.

And if you think Bernie won't be going on the speaker circuit if he manages to not die in political office, you are kind of ignorant. He will do the same, and I will have no problem with another guy who has always been a public servant making $$ after "retiring."

I never go upset with Bush2.0, Cheney, and others from that administration who I hate with a passion, getting speaking fees...that is how it works when you are retired.

We will see what Obama does as an out of office political leader and how he uses his money and influence, but to cry about one of the most popular men in the world making money on the speakers circuit makes me believe there are other reasons for your dissatisfaction.

Well pat yourself on the head for guessing that Obama wasn't going to be anything but nominally progressive. In your great wisdom did you see Obama being to the right of Bush on many issues? See that one coming Nostradamus?

I didnt see Obama appointing some of the same people responsible for the crash to oversee the recovery. Not just talking about from the same industry, but the very same people,like Larry Summers.

I didnt see Obama prosecuting more leakers,reporters, of goverment malfeasance than all other president combined.

I didn't see Obama opening up our coastline to oil drilling, even while the BP disaster was going on. Have to give Obama credit for hiding all that oil with Corexit for BP. A substance so toxic that its been banned in large parts of the world. But your moderate president thought it would make a great dispersant. The gulf coast is still recovering, know that from firsthand experience. If Bush had done something like this....

I also didnt know that Obama would prosecute fewer corporate criminals in 8 years than George W Bush, fewer than any president in more than 40 years, right after the biggest orgy of corporate fraud and criminality in US history. But you saw that coming right?

Didnt know that he was lying through his teeth when he was campaigning for the ACA, telling people there would be a public option, when he had already made a deal to kill it. He made a deal with big Pharma to keep prices high. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation proposal from the 1990s, the same Heritage foundation who is consulting Trump on who to hire in his administration.


How about the NDAA? Did you see him making it legal for the president to order the excecution of any American, anywhere in the world (including the US) without a trial or charges? Obama spent 8 years building the framework for an authoritarian state and gift wrapped it for Trump. But you saw that coming right? I was warning this board about it for years. That I did see coming.

As for Bernie, he talks a good game but its mostly talk. If Sanders were serious about changing things he would have left the party, stopped caucusing with them, and formed a new one. I would have voted for him for president, but beyond that, he's a useful tool for the Dems.

The problem with talking about the center is that it has been moving to the right since the 80s. You can go back to Jimmy Carter deregulating the airline industry, but it really started moving to the right with Bill Clinton, and his triangulation strategy.

Always moving to the right of wherever the Dems were at the time to hold the fictitious center, which moved the democratic party away from its traditional mission of representing the working class to that of representating big business, and high income professionals. Obama not only followed that strategy, he went to the right of republicans at times, in a big way.

So yes, I do have an agenda. Its not hearing any more bull**** about the center. It keeps moving right with voters like you leading the way. Telling folks like me to keep moving with it.


All I can say is keep up this way of thinking and you will get Trump or a second term and the Congress will remain GOP controlled.

With all her warts...AND I WAS NOT A HILLARY SYCOPHANT...she would have won without Russian interference and the final Comey letter.

The Bernie teardown and sniping at the Dem party will only hurt...If this is anyone's agenda it is a fool's quest.

In some ways you are not unlike Bannon, who has a similar goal to you, it would seem.

We already see Trump gutting things you probably think are important, and he got a right-wing justice in with help from McConnell...

Deal with the hole in the dam...and then build a new one. You let the GOP keep the Senate and you will get more justices, and future efforts will be chopped down.

You see so all those trees but are truly ignorant of the forest. You helped put Trump in to make a political point and take revenge against the better candidate...now you get to pay for your foolishness.

So continue to be Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" and watch things you probably support, destroyed for the sake of remaining pure to your cause.

Congrats.

If you really must insist on name calling as you have throughout this exchange, congrats on being a sociopath, you ignorant POS. Nothing I cited didnt even make you want to give even a cursory acknowledgment of some of the truly dangerous, destructive, things Obama has done as president. Policies no president has ever pushed before, because they were so radical.

You're like a Trump supporter, there doesn't seem to be a limit to what you will whitewash to support your guy.

If you honestly believe that it was my fault that the democratic party pushed through a rigged system, the most deeply unpopular politican to run for president ever, over someone far more popular, who filled stadiums, who always polled better against Trump. Then you're too ****ing stupid for words.

Steve Bannon wants to destroy the system, that includes all regulations that keep him and his friends from getting everything they can lay their hands on. He is a white nationalist, anti muslim, wants to start World War 3. If you can find anything Ive written that even suggests Im in favor of these any of these things, please provide it now.

Angry young man? No, an old man who has seen enough not to fall for lesser evilism anymore. A majority of polls say that voters believe the democratic party doesn't care about their concerns, is out of touch with what's going on outside of Washington. Why should they when they have morons like you to vote for them, to cover for them, no matter what they do?


Triggered?? I think that is what they call this response.

Berners want a tear down of the Dem party...Bannon wants a national tear down.

We call this an "analogy" in the adult world.


One a leads to a splitting of the Democratic party which will lead to a second term for Trump and the GOP maintaining complete control of Congress...This is quite plausible


Another that would lead to much worse...but has little or no chance of happening.


Right now I see folks who support the former as more dangerous for the fringe types who support the Bannon way.

Sorry, but you deserve responsibility for putting into power the most dangerously ignorant and unqualified man ever placed into office over a flawed, but still competent HRC... and now Bernie and company are putting a 2018 rebound into jeopardy because they lack the political tact.

Many things need to be changed, but Berners blew it they not only decided to turn against HRC for Prez, but also allowed the GOP to take the Senate. If they were a force they could have gone against HRC but still voted for legislators to build a buffer against Trump.

If Bernie had not been building a cult of personality based movement...if he had been an organizer looking at the big picture, his people could have helped take the Senate for the Dems, even if all their candidates were not Bernie approved.

Naive politics got Trump elected...and will keep him in office for a second term with a GOP Congress that will allow the Supreme Court to turn right for the next quarter century and make it impossible for the environmental movement to recover.

2018 is all that matters at this moment- and you need a united effort to take back the Congress ...folks who don't see this and feel things have to be exactly how they want them to be happy are naive.

Lump me with the Berners then. What you have posted is pure sophistry. If all the Bernie people had voted Hillary to victory the centrist Dems would have seen that as validation of their scumbag policies to cozy up with Wall St. They got their ass handed to them because they are out of touch with the people they claim to represent. Naive politics didn't get Trump elected. The least popular candidate ever to run for president got him elected. I am tired of watching the centrist dems bending over for the right wing agenda. And if that means 4 more years of Trump after this, I'll do that too. I fukking hate hypocrites.


We call this cutting off your nose to spite your face.

By the way...the "least popular candidate" got almost 3 million votes than Trump and had to deal with Russian hacks, up with Russian bots on social media, and the Comey letter...but hey...believe what you want...do what you want...BUT accept the consequences and take responsibility for the results.

Wrong. Not voting for Billary does not equal voting for or endorsing Trump. Pushing this argument will get you nowhere.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
5/3/2017  4:01 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Well pat yourself on the head for guessing that Obama wasn't going to be anything but nominally progressive. In your great wisdom did you see Obama being to the right of Bush on many issues? See that one coming Nostradamus?

I didnt see Obama appointing some of the same people responsible for the crash to oversee the recovery. Not just talking about from the same industry, but the very same people,like Larry Summers.

I didnt see Obama prosecuting more leakers,reporters, of goverment malfeasance than all other president combined.

I didn't see Obama opening up our coastline to oil drilling, even while the BP disaster was going on. Have to give Obama credit for hiding all that oil with Corexit for BP. A substance so toxic that its been banned in large parts of the world. But your moderate president thought it would make a great dispersant. The gulf coast is still recovering, know that from firsthand experience. If Bush had done something like this....

I also didnt know that Obama would prosecute fewer corporate criminals in 8 years than George W Bush, fewer than any president in more than 40 years, right after the biggest orgy of corporate fraud and criminality in US history. But you saw that coming right?

Didnt know that he was lying through his teeth when he was campaigning for the ACA, telling people there would be a public option, when he had already made a deal to kill it. He made a deal with big Pharma to keep prices high. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation proposal from the 1990s, the same Heritage foundation who is consulting Trump on who to hire in his administration.


How about the NDAA? Did you see him making it legal for the president to order the excecution of any American, anywhere in the world (including the US) without a trial or charges? Obama spent 8 years building the framework for an authoritarian state and gift wrapped it for Trump. But you saw that coming right? I was warning this board about it for years. That I did see coming.

As for Bernie, he talks a good game but its mostly talk. If Sanders were serious about changing things he would have left the party, stopped caucusing with them, and formed a new one. I would have voted for him for president, but beyond that, he's a useful tool for the Dems.

The problem with talking about the center is that it has been moving to the right since the 80s. You can go back to Jimmy Carter deregulating the airline industry, but it really started moving to the right with Bill Clinton, and his triangulation strategy.

Always moving to the right of wherever the Dems were at the time to hold the fictitious center, which moved the democratic party away from its traditional mission of representing the working class to that of representating big business, and high income professionals. Obama not only followed that strategy, he went to the right of republicans at times, in a big way.

So yes, I do have an agenda. Its not hearing any more bull**** about the center. It keeps moving right with voters like you leading the way. Telling folks like me to keep moving with it.

Wow. Just wow.

I may look into becoming a Buccaneers fan after reading this a few times...

meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

5/3/2017  11:03 PM
martin wrote:This is a good example of why I think Trump is a scumbag. Not savy or smart enough to walk himself around some very pointed questions, dumb enough to dig himself into his own hole, slimy enough to shoot self and our country as a whole by disparaging a former president for no reason. Literally nothing to his guy but the con.

He is a petty little piece of sh!t. But there are bigger issues than his takedown of Obama. This dumbass is actually trying to provoke a nuclear confrontation with N Korea. South Korea may have to become collateral damage of this dumb prick's arrogance. This is what happens when a bully gets his bluff called.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

5/5/2017  3:49 PM
http://time.com/money/4763609/pre-existing-conditions-ahca/

"Pre existing" conditions.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
smackeddog
Posts: 38386
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
5/5/2017  4:09 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:http://time.com/money/4763609/pre-existing-conditions-ahca/

"Pre existing" conditions.

I don't get why a human being would vote to make ill people not be able to afford health care, I really don't.

martin
Posts: 67880
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
5/5/2017  6:42 PM
smackeddog wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:http://time.com/money/4763609/pre-existing-conditions-ahca/

"Pre existing" conditions.

I don't get why a human being would vote to make ill people not be able to afford health care, I really don't.

bought and paid for my man, bought and paid for by the ultra rich who are getting a tax cut

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
OT: Politics Thread

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy