Whenever we have run those 2 man games it has looked fantastic. Don't know why Jeff lets Melo isolation so much. He wasn't an isolation coach in Phenoix. He was about pace, point guards creating and bigs spacing the floor. I hate to say this, but I can't see Jeff truly run his offense until Noah and Melo play more fitting roles. Melo has to play more of an off the ball spot up shooting game with some flurries of iso play. Noah has to play exclusively without Melo to not instigate the isolation play from the team. Once the opposing team sees Noah is not threat they simply let Noah's man roam more often and play other guys tight. We're clearly seeing why Chicago is doing better without Noah this year. Don't get me wrong, Noah has a role on a good team. Just not as a starter or core player. He's an energizer off the bench. You have to switch him and O'Quinn or Hernangomez.

GustavBahler wrote:

holfresh wrote:Everyone raving about the play of the Knick bench this year..What am I missing?

They have been playing well, but rooks, untested players, went up against a front line that has championship experience, still in their primes. It happens. Part of the learning process.

He basically called out himself and Melo without naming names. Not aggressive enough defensively. Not moving the ball and too selfish offensively.

y2zipper wrote:I definitely think Melo needs to be more self-aware and not force it, especially if he's off.

Rose was awesome out there most of the night. I wish he had better vision as well, but he is at least providing dribble penetration. It's also good to see strides from Porzingis and the Knicks should be running that 2-man game whenever they can.

Bigger concern is defense. It just isn't there at all right now...

Melo did take less shots than Rose and KP, problem was that he missed 80% of them, maybe more

nyknickzingis wrote:Rose is definitely looking more and more like his old self. We should run more Rose/KP screen rolls. We don't run enough of them. Rose is an elite driver and can get to the basket and score. KP can shoot extremely well. The defense does not know what to do there, if they follow Rose it's giving KP open looks. If the big stays back with KP, Rose has an easy blow by drive. This should be our bread and butter play, and we don't milk it. Instead we go to Melo Isolations. We should also go to Rose/Melo pick and roll or 2 man games. Same idea as with KP. You have Melo set the pick.

Whenever we have run those 2 man games it has looked fantastic. Don't know why Jeff lets Melo isolation so much. He wasn't an isolation coach in Phenoix. He was about pace, point guards creating and bigs spacing the floor. I hate to say this, but I can't see Jeff truly run his offense until Noah and Melo play more fitting roles. Melo has to play more of an off the ball spot up shooting game with some flurries of iso play. Noah has to play exclusively without Melo to not instigate the isolation play from the team. Once the opposing team sees Noah is not threat they simply let Noah's man roam more often and play other guys tight. We're clearly seeing why Chicago is doing better without Noah this year. Don't get me wrong, Noah has a role on a good team. Just not as a starter or core player. He's an energizer off the bench. You have to switch him and O'Quinn or Hernangomez.

nyknickzingis wrote:Melo has 18 points on 24 scoring possessions or attempts/shots at the basket (including FT's). 4-18 from the field. Pathetic for a franchise player. Unacceptable. The Knicks go to 8-9 and the haters will say it's the Triangle and Phil Jackson, and yet if Melo plays like a star is supposed to at this level, the Knicks are 2 or 3 wins better.

Rose and KP had good games, KP struggled with the physicality of the game. This is a game KP has to learn from. You have to deal with physical teams. Sometimes calls don't go your way. He dealt with it well.

Noah, I just don't know. Yeah I like the passes, I like the hustle. In the end I see a player who makes us too Melo centric. When your 5 man can not score, he can not catch and finish, what is likely to happen is your top creators will have more pressure to score. Sure, if it's Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant they can thrive with a player like Noah. Carmelo Anthony does not. Noah is bringing out the worst in this lineup.

This team has to get it's act together and Hornachek has to make some changes. The starting lineup is better with O'Quinn. O'Quinn is a scoring threat and does not pass up open looks. The Knicks need to let this season be Hernangomez's development season. As good as Noah can be defensively in certain situations, right now I see him as a 3rd string Center. If we are going to lose and be a team that struggles to stay above .500, I'd like to see us develop the players who will be here next season and are young in O'Quinn (25) Hernangomez (22) and Kuz (27).

Good scoring game from Rose. Just extremely upset with Melo's game. To be playing like this when all you have said is about your desire to bring a championship to NY. You have Rose and KP. Hornachek has minimized the Triangle and opened up the game. Yet here we are in year 5 of Melo era and it's the same stuff. D'Antoni, Woodson, Fisher, Rambis and now Hornachek. A spade is a spade. He will not win or possibly even get out of the 1st round so long as he's a team's best player. Maybe 4 years ago in his prime. He's slowly exited and yet still playing like he is the best player on the team. He isn't. In terms of impact, Melo may be our 3rd most valuable player right now. As great as his isolation moves and jumper is, when he isn't scoring is, he's pretty much a liability.

A lot of good points here^

Not sure I agree Noah causes ISO. That might be happening but certainly doesn't have to happen

Noah is an excellent facilitator and when he's in the game the ball should be moving. What the team and Noah need to develop are some plays to punish the defense if Noah's defender leaves him

Also I hope The game serves as a lesson that you can win w size and physicalit. It's about matchups

WP76 wrote:Westbrook is so much better than Melo, it's not even funny. Could you imagine KP and Russell on the same roster?

Quote of the night! How about, what if Westbrook played on the same roster with Kevin Durant? And Adams, who just made our 2 bigs look like little kids. And what if he played with Kantor, who just lit us up and bullied KP? Maybe Ibaka? Oh wait, they did play together and they won what?

magicTs wrote:Noah just made some very interesting comments.

He basically called out himself and Melo without naming names. Not aggressive enough defensively. Not moving the ball and too selfish offensively.

Thats what I saw.....Either Melo's IQ on defense is low, or he just wasn't focused on defense. He got caught looking at the ball too much and allowed his man to sneak in for each buckets. KP knows he's guarding a 3 pt shooter, and he's 7'3....but he still gave his man too much room. It's like KP is afraid of getting beat off the dribble. But he needs to understand he's long enough to makeup for that, and he can just meet his man and the ball at the rim.

Melo was also slow on guarding his man from 3......

It's called the westbrook affect. He forces you to pay too much attention to him, which is why others are playing a soft D on their man.

KOQ's bully ball energy on defense and rebounding is needed against teams like OKC. Other finese teams, his skills may not be needed as much. Jeff Horny needs to see this. Noah might have helped us win this game if he played in the 4th. Same with KOQ.

HofstraBBall wrote:

WP76 wrote:Westbrook is so much better than Melo, it's not even funny. Could you imagine KP and Russell on the same roster?

Quote of the night! How about, what if Westbrook played on the same roster with Kevin Durant? And Adams, who just made our 2 bigs look like little kids. And what if he played with Kantor, who just lit us up and bullied KP? Maybe Ibaka? Oh wait, they did play together and they won what?

holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:

magicTs wrote:Noah just made some very interesting comments.

He basically called out himself and Melo without naming names. Not aggressive enough defensively. Not moving the ball and too selfish offensively.

Thats what I saw.....Either Melo's IQ on defense is low, or he just wasn't focused on defense. He got caught looking at the ball too much and allowed his man to sneak in for each buckets. KP knows he's guarding a 3 pt shooter, and he's 7'3....but he still gave his man too much room. It's like KP is afraid of getting beat off the dribble. But he needs to understand he's long enough to makeup for that, and he can just meet his man and the ball at the rim.

Melo was also slow on guarding his man from 3......

It's called the westbrook affect. He forces you to pay too much attention to him, which is why others are playing a soft D on their man.

KOQ's bully ball energy on defense and rebounding is needed against teams like OKC. Other finese teams, his skills may not be needed as much. Jeff Horny needs to see this. Noah might have helped us win this game if he played in the 4th. Same with KOQ.

It's funny because Melo was reaming Noah in game about his defensive rotation the game prior...

The problem I see is that each position is slow to react to their man. Which is why one game, zone was their best defense.