Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

I absolutely love statements like this. Reminds me of the IronWillGiroud guy who used to post about how he would own most NBA players because of how many hack squats he could do and because he slapped the backboard after each layup he made.

Anyone can score 20 points in an NBA game, given 30 shots! Anybody!

Thats a tip, boys and girls! Doesn't matter if you're a future HOF'er or if you're just some douche posting on the internet! You too can score 20 a night if you can just be allowed to be an iso ball hog!

Maybe we can start competing threads on whether Melo should bench himself or trade himself. See which one gets more posts!

jrodmc wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

I absolutely love statements like this. Reminds me of the IronWillGiroud guy who used to post about how he would own most NBA players because of how many hack squats he could do and because he slapped the backboard after each layup he made.

Anyone can score 20 points in an NBA game, given 30 shots! Anybody!

Thats a tip, boys and girls! Doesn't matter if you're a future HOF'er or if you're just some douche posting on the internet! You too can score 20 a night if you can just be allowed to be an iso ball hog!

Maybe we can start competing threads on whether Melo should bench himself or trade himself. See which one gets more posts!

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Why is it so hard to believe that Melo did more harm than good in this game? He shot 7 of 25. The team was -16 with him on the court and +11 with him off the court (the worst plus minus on the team).

Let me post this disclaimer first: I am not saying anything negative about KP, just using him as an example of the selective use of advance stats:

KP is -18.3 in +/- in back to back games. So does that mean he's hurting us?

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Why is it so hard to believe that Melo did more harm than good in this game? He shot 7 of 25. The team was -16 with him on the court and +11 with him off the court (the worst plus minus on the team).

Let me post this disclaimer first: I am not saying anything negative about KP, just using him as an example of the selective use of advance stats:

KP is -18.3 in +/- in the 2nd game of back to back games. So does that mean he's hurting us?

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Why is it so hard to believe that Melo did more harm than good in this game? He shot 7 of 25. The team was -16 with him on the court and +11 with him off the court (the worst plus minus on the team).

Let me post this disclaimer first: I am not saying anything negative about KP, just using him as an example of the selective use of advance stats:

KP is -18.3 in +/- in the 2nd game of back to back games. So does that mean he's hurting us?

It *might* mean he has hurt the team in 2nd games of back to backs. All I wrote was that the idea that Melo had hurt the team in that one game wasn't far-fetched. I'm sure Michael Jordan had games where he hurt his team too.

Saturday if we didn't play Melo (-16), Lee (-15), Noah (-12), Rose (-9) and Willy (-8) and just played KP (0), O'Quinn (+13), Kuz (+2), Holiday (+11), Jennings (+2), and Vujacic (+7) you think we probably win?

Welpee wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

i dont agree with the OP at all BUT why do you bring KP into this? I think KP has proven he is big down the stretch in games

Only to show that hypocrisy when it comes to Melo. Statistically KP is actually worse in back to back situation but he suggests that Melo sits based on performance.

And I agree regarding KP. To me the answer isn't sitting Melo but him deferring more to KP and Rose in games when he's off regardless of whether its a back to back. Overreacting to yesterday is way too simplified.

Good luck getting Melo to defer to anyone --- the guy is a tool -- he has proved it over and over again ---- he only knows Melo/me -- does not entertain team concepts unless he is placed at the top of the team as some type of hero/savior --- he is a tool who doesn't get it --- end of story/period.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Why is it so hard to believe that Melo did more harm than good in this game? He shot 7 of 25. The team was -16 with him on the court and +11 with him off the court (the worst plus minus on the team).

But...but Melo is our savior.

LivingLegend wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Nope -- his 7/25 shooting performance was a key to us being in the game. Is that what you were thinking?

Reminds me of the Ewing hate back in the day. Yeah, they'd be better off without Ewing. If it weren't for Ewing the Knicks could run more. Yada, yada, yada.

LivingLegend wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Am I the only one here seeing that Melo does not and never had what it takes to win? Please! Let him do his act of image making and smiling after bad mistakes whenever he's fresh and before a home crowd, he will still be able to come up big once in a while... do not make away games hinge on the princess :-) Those are winnable games, by the way...just not on a 5/30 shooting :-))

You are NOT alone my friend -- it's very obvious this cat doesn't have what it takes.

He only sees himself as someone special -- someone deserving special treatment, special privilege. Yes he can play in a team concept but only when he chooses and/or feels like it and god forbid don't anyone say anything negative about him or he will go into tank mode and start trying to get Horny fired.

Melo is like the little kid from the old Twilight Zone movie --- the kid who would send anyone to the corn field if they said anything he didn't like or if he didn't get his way. He will play how he likes, when he wants and with that no-trade clause there is nothing any Knick fan or Phil can do about it -- thanks Phil for that one.

The tool of wisdom has spoken.

This early in the season, I'd probably let him play both games unless he had a slight injury in the first one.

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Why is it so hard to believe that Melo did more harm than good in this game? He shot 7 of 25. The team was -16 with him on the court and +11 with him off the court (the worst plus minus on the team).

Let me post this disclaimer first: I am not saying anything negative about KP, just using him as an example of the selective use of advance stats:

KP is -18.3 in +/- in the 2nd game of back to back games. So does that mean he's hurting us?

It *might* mean he has hurt the team in 2nd games of back to backs. All I wrote was that the idea that Melo had hurt the team in that one game wasn't far-fetched. I'm sure Michael Jordan had games where he hurt his team too.

So Saturday night we would've been better off if Melo didn't play? Or in the Boston game when KP was -24 we would've been better if he didn't play?

Saturday if we didn't play Melo (-16), Lee (-15), Noah (-12), Rose (-9) and Willy (-8) and just played KP (0), O'Quinn (+13), Kuz (+2), Holiday (+11), Jennings (+2), and Vujacic (+7) you think we probably win?

And in the case of those +/- stats, most of those players played with Melo on the court. So of course they had bad +/- #s. When the guy you're playing with scores 18 points on 25 shots, of course the team is going to do bad while you're on the court with him. It's more revealing when you have *the lowest* plus/minus on the team. It's harder to argue that your bad +/- #s trace to another player in that case. Nevertheless, that is just one of many stats to look at. I don't much from the stats to indicate Melo had a positive impact on that game.