StarksEwing1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:hornacek: "kp is often in a mismatch and we are not looking for him. we have to take advantage of that."

that's code for "he's being frozen out."

pretty much. Look i admit KP had a terrible game but he needs to be a priority on offense.

this year should have been about developing kp6 as the main guy, so you had to be concerned when jackson acquired rose and jennings, albeit on one-year contracts. as we all know, this was done to appease carmelo anthiny, who looks every bit the 32 year old he is-- with 33,000 minutes logged in the nba, and who is averaging close to 35 minutes a game thus far this season. this is a very bad trend.

what we have seen thus far is what happens when you try to accomplish two separate agendas: you can't serve melo's agenda and not expect kp6 to get screwed.

that's the big picture, but my guess is that most posters on knicks forums essentially can't see the forest for the trees.

the good news is that we have our draft picks plus rose is a expiring contract. I like hornacek and i hope he is more forceful in what he says

i don't see it happening. rose and melo are a HORRIBLE combination and a HORRIBLE influence on one another.

its exactly what i feared and part of the reason i disliked the trade. Can KP be more aggressive? Of course but they arent exactly looking for him either.

yeah people who say "kp needs to be more aggressive" or "kp needs to demand the ball" or "kp isn't that guy" or "it's not kp's time he needs to be brought along slowly"... are essentially full o' shyte.

look at the advanced stats tomorrow-- i am certain the usage rates for melo and rose will be similar as they were in the detroit game.

SHAMEFUL

dk7th wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:hornacek: "kp is often in a mismatch and we are not looking for him. we have to take advantage of that."

that's code for "he's being frozen out."

pretty much. Look i admit KP had a terrible game but he needs to be a priority on offense.

this year should have been about developing kp6 as the main guy, so you had to be concerned when jackson acquired rose and jennings, albeit on one-year contracts. as we all know, this was done to appease carmelo anthiny, who looks every bit the 32 year old he is-- with 33,000 minutes logged in the nba, and who is averaging close to 35 minutes a game thus far this season. this is a very bad trend.

what we have seen thus far is what happens when you try to accomplish two separate agendas: you can't serve melo's agenda and not expect kp6 to get screwed.

that's the big picture, but my guess is that most posters on knicks forums essentially can't see the forest for the trees.

A lot of this ultimately falls on Jeff, he needs to design and call plays to get KP6 the ball instead of the wild "go as you like it, chuck when you can" offense we are running now. Once teams collapse on Rose and he has no awareness of where his teammates are it's over. We definitely need some adult supervision on offense and it has to come from the coach. If Melo hold or starts pounding the ball, he should be taken out for a few minutes. At least get Noah to throw some alley-oops to KP6

dk7th wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:hornacek: "kp is often in a mismatch and we are not looking for him. we have to take advantage of that."

that's code for "he's being frozen out."

pretty much. Look i admit KP had a terrible game but he needs to be a priority on offense.

this year should have been about developing kp6 as the main guy, so you had to be concerned when jackson acquired rose and jennings, albeit on one-year contracts. as we all know, this was done to appease carmelo anthiny, who looks every bit the 32 year old he is-- with 33,000 minutes logged in the nba, and who is averaging close to 35 minutes a game thus far this season. this is a very bad trend.

what we have seen thus far is what happens when you try to accomplish two separate agendas: you can't serve melo's agenda and not expect kp6 to get screwed.

that's the big picture, but my guess is that most posters on knicks forums essentially can't see the forest for the trees.

the good news is that we have our draft picks plus rose is a expiring contract. I like hornacek and i hope he is more forceful in what he says

i don't see it happening. rose and melo are a HORRIBLE combination and a HORRIBLE influence on one another.

its exactly what i feared and part of the reason i disliked the trade. Can KP be more aggressive? Of course but they arent exactly looking for him either.

yeah people who say "kp needs to be more aggressive" or "kp needs to demand the ball" or "kp isn't that guy" or "it's not kp's time he needs to be brought along slowly"... are essentially full o' shyte.

look at the advanced stats tomorrow-- i am certain the usage rates for melo and rose will be similar as they were in the detroit game.

SHAMEFUL

Go look at the game again..In the second quarter KP was playing with the second unit(LT, Holliday, N'Dour, Jennings) before he picked up his third foul..He runs up court and stands in the corner letting N'Dour be the main pick and roll guy and post play guy on four possessions..KP is standing in the corner waiting to shoot the three on two of those possessions..Who is calling those plays?

Courtney Lee says the Knicks should "practice against more game-like situations" rather than practicing against the triangle offense. "We run the triangle, we practice against it a lot. I think we need to practice against pick and rolls, practice against other looks and whatnot and get comfortable with that because that's what other teams are running."

Courtney Lee might wanna get his bags packed. Only four games in and players are making comments about the offense and more importantly the defense. I guess it isn't wrong for fans to be concerned since the players are talking so early.

melo shot very well but, once again, was incredibly selfish: usage was 30.7 with one assist and five turnovers. he is reverting to bad melo.

rose and melo are a very bad tandem that are a bad influence on each other and it is hurting the knicks.

Chandler wrote:

dk7th wrote:rose took 18 shots and scored 16 points with zero free throw attempts. his usage was a whopping 28.8. can't have usage that high and that may shot attempts from the point guard and expect to win games, let alone promote offensive cohesion.

melo shot very well but, once again, was incredibly selfish: usage was 30.7 with one assist and five turnovers. he is reverting to bad melo.

rose and melo are a very bad tandem that are a bad influence on each other and it is hurting the knicks.

I'm not sure I agree about the usage rate in isolation. I suspect hardens rate was high

Issue was high use + ineffective. Melo dribbling into a triple team under the basket and praying for the refs to bail him out was not a good look

I'm optimistic team will adjust and improve

the difference was that harden's usage was lower than both melo and rose, at 26.6%, AND his assist rate was an incredible 72.5%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201611020NYK.html

We also have an offense going in several directions, between the Triangle, and Hornacek's run and gun offense. Not enough time seems to be spent developing a half court game. Two competing offensive philosophies at work.

Haven't even gone into defense. I know there are some coaching reasons for KP's drop in D, but I think its more than that. Right after he got drafted by the Knicks, there were plenty of stories, and a few comments from current and former NBA players that KP would be just another soft Euro who could shoot. You could tell from the first time he set foot on the floor that KP heard all that stuff. He played D often like a man possessed last season, like someone trying to prove the doubters wrong. I dont see that this season. KP has to understand that he has to bring that fire on D every night.

Too many things going on offense, not enough on defense. At some point they are going to have to make KP the man if they want him to renew his contract. I know it feels like its a long way off, but if he is still playing Robin to the vets next season, dont be surprised if he doesnt come back. Cant wait until KP's contract year to make it his team.

I think you play Melo, Jennings and KP together, with holiday and Lance Thomas (if anyone has seen him). This will really help with the defense and allow us to showcase are two best scorers.

Rose, is very similar to Amare. Really all world athletic talent that got by on his quickness and superior athleticism. Never learned how to play the game. Head down to the rim every possession. Missing passes left and right.

I agree with the above posters - we must give Horny a chance to figure out his team. Melo+Rose on high usage rates with low efficiency is a terrible "plan".

dk7th wrote:

Chandler wrote:

dk7th wrote:rose took 18 shots and scored 16 points with zero free throw attempts. his usage was a whopping 28.8. can't have usage that high and that may shot attempts from the point guard and expect to win games, let alone promote offensive cohesion.

melo shot very well but, once again, was incredibly selfish: usage was 30.7 with one assist and five turnovers. he is reverting to bad melo.

rose and melo are a very bad tandem that are a bad influence on each other and it is hurting the knicks.

I'm not sure I agree about the usage rate in isolation. I suspect hardens rate was high

Issue was high use + ineffective. Melo dribbling into a triple team under the basket and praying for the refs to bail him out was not a good look

I'm optimistic team will adjust and improve

the difference was that harden's usage was lower than both melo and rose, at 26.6%, AND his assist rate was an incredible 72.5%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201611020NYK.html

Wow surprised by that

the one thing not captured even in that assist rate is how many resulted in incredibly easy baskets -- wide open lay-ups etc. He's an incredible talent