Basi
Starters                MP FG FGA   FG% 3P 3PA  3P% FT FTA   FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Carmelo Anthony      35:31  5  15  .333  1   5 .200  9  12  .750   0   6   6   5   0   0   3  2  20
Derrick Rose         32:16  6  13  .462  0   1 .000  1   2  .500   1   3   4   3   2   1   0  2  13
Kristaps Porzingis   36:22  7  11  .636  1   4 .250  6   8  .750   0   5   5   2   0   1   0  5  21
Courtney Lee         33:37  6  11  .545  2   4 .500  2   2 1.000   0   3   3   1   1   0   0  1  16
Justin Holiday       19:24  4   7  .571  0   2 .000  0         0   0   0   0   1   0   1   0  3   8
Kyle OQuinn          18:48  3   5  .600  0        0  5   7  .714   2   4   6   2   0   0   1  4  11
Lance Thomas         18:38  3   5  .600  0   1 .000  0         0   1   2   3   0   0   0   0  1   6
Brandon Jennings     15:44  2   4  .500  2   4 .500  0         0   0   2   2   3   1   0   2  1   6
Willy Hernangomez     7:52  2   3  .667  0        0  0   2  .000   1   1   2   0   0   0   2  0   4
Joakim Noah          21:50  2   2 1.000  0        0  2   6  .333   1   9  10   7   0   1   4  6   6
Team Totals            240 40  76  .526  6  21 .286 25  39  .641   6  35  41  24   4   4  12 25 111

As to efficiency and sharing the ball, kp6 showed elite efficiency, no doubt due in part to the several flushes and finishes he had from noah primarily. But when sorting for TS%, ie efficiency, there's an unsettling fact: both melo and rose, the two players taking the most shots, are in fact at the bottom of the team for efficiency-- that is not something the knicks will be able to live with if they want to gel into a tough playoff out. a mitigating factor, however, is the degree to which both rose and melo shared the ball, as shown by their usage and assist rates. rose's was 19.6/14.4 for a ratio of 1.36:1. while not a ratio for a true point guard (would have to be closer to .5:1 or lower), he at least did not dominate the ball, being 10-12% below his career average. I believe that Rose must have a usage of 24% or less if the knicks are to win games. so his 19.2% usage was part of why they won, in spite of his paltry 46.8% TS. melo was even better: 29.9% usage is a bit high-- he did go isolation too much last night-- but his assist rate was a terrific 20.3% for a ratio of 1.47:1. if he takes 2 fewer shots-- he took several bad shots-- that ratio gets closer to 1.25:1 which is around what he did for 25 tremendous and perception-altering games last season. with the exception of rose and melo, the rest of the team, including the bench, were very efficient and also shared the ball. one last thing: brandon jennings was mentioned by breen, who alluded to the fact that jennings 3-point % is actually pretty good. he just needs to play a little more under control. the form on his shot is terrible.

                                                                                                      
                                                                                                  Adva
Starters                MP  TS%  eFG%  3PAr   FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  ORtg  DRtg
Brandon Jennings     15:44 .750  .750 1.000  .000  0.0 13.3  7.5 27.0  3.2  0.0 33.3  17.4   106   105
Kristaps Porzingis   36:22 .723  .682  .364  .727  0.0 14.3  8.1  8.6  0.0  2.2  0.0  18.2   149   110
Kyle OQuinn          18:48 .681  .600  .000 1.400 14.6 22.2 18.9 15.8  0.0  0.0 11.0  22.0   137   109
Courtney Lee         33:37 .673  .636  .364  .182  0.0  9.3  5.3  4.5  1.5  0.0  0.0  16.1   135   110
Joakim Noah          21:50 .647 1.000  .000 3.000  6.3 43.0 27.1 43.2  0.0  3.6 46.3  18.1    97    99
Lance Thomas         18:38 .600  .600  .200  .000  7.4 11.2  9.5  0.0  0.0  0.0  0.0  12.2   125   112
Justin Holiday       19:24 .571  .571  .286  .000  0.0  0.0  0.0  8.2  0.0  4.1  0.0  16.5   116   113
Willy Hernangomez     7:52 .515  .667  .000  .667 17.4 13.3 15.1  0.0  0.0  0.0 34.0  34.1    67   112
Carmelo Anthony      35:31 .493  .367  .333  .800  0.0 17.6 10.0 20.3  0.0  0.0 12.9  29.9    98   110
Derrick Rose         32:16 .468  .462  .077  .154  4.3  9.7  7.3 14.4  3.1  2.4  0.0  19.6   106   104
Team Totals            240 .596  .566  .276  .513 17.1 76.1 50.6 60.0  4.1  6.6 11.4 100.0 115.1 107.9

That said, I love what I see from KP in transition. This team with Noah at C is perfect for KP now, but he will be a monster monster in a free flowing transition offense when guarded by anyone not named Anthony Davis. So, if you can tell me those additional KP shots are created in transition offense, I agree.

HofstraBBall wrote:Can you please break down every second of the first games 3rd quarter from the 9th to 10th minute? Would help to have a smaller more useless sample size.

Until then we will just say your wrong. Don't know if you noticed but Rose is the guard we desperately needed to penetrate and get easy baskets. And now that we have one, your advocating Hornacek limit the easy scores? Perhaps you missed the game last night in which he went on a run to the basket umtouched and opened up shots for others because of it. KP has to be a constant cutter behind Rose. Has to be a catch and shoot player within 20 feet. Was pleased that KP played great last night sticking to mostly inside. He followed shots to basket, was active on the break and stayed away from crazy 3pt shots, except for two. But he is not yet able to create his own shot. He needs to develop his post up game. He needs a guy like Rose to set him up. And if Rose is not an aggressive scorer, defenders wont come off KP. You just don't understand fundamental basketball. Bugs get set up and guards have to be a threat to drive. With time, Rose will also pass out. But only if defenses can stop his drive. Which as you saw last night, they could not do. Rose won the game last night when he too over with the Knicks only up 2 in the 4th. I know this kills you.

Sometimes numbers can give you the wrong impression of what actually happened in a game! I know it may sound counter intuitive to some but actually watching the game it was clear how Rose impacted the game at the end. Having him late in games makes a big difference!

HofstraBBall wrote:Can you please break down every second of the first games 3rd quarter from the 9th to 10th minute? Would help to have a smaller more useless sample size.

Until then we will just say your wrong. Don't know if you noticed but Rose is the guard we desperately needed to penetrate and get easy baskets. And now that we have one, your advocating Hornacek limit the easy scores? Perhaps you missed the game last night in which he went on a run to the basket umtouched and opened up shots for others because of it. KP has to be a constant cutter behind Rose. Has to be a catch and shoot player within 20 feet. Was pleased that KP played great last night sticking to mostly inside. He followed shots to basket, was active on the break and stayed away from crazy 3pt shots, except for two. But he is not yet able to create his own shot. He needs to develop his post up game. He needs a guy like Rose to set him up. And if Rose is not an aggressive scorer, defenders wont come off KP. You just don't understand fundamental basketball. Bigs get set up and guards have to be a threat to drive. With time, Rose will also pass out. But only if defenses can stop his drive. Which as you saw last night, they could not do. Rose won the game last night when he took over with the Knicks only up 2 in the 4th. I know this kills you.

until you read the game thread you have no idea what you're saying about me or my alleged ignorance about basketball fundamentals-- you come across as having a vacuous vendetta or agenda, and you're clearly a smart person. please don't waste my time tilting at windmills or setting up straw man arguments. read the game thread and participate in the next game thread-- then we can have a dialogue. agreed?

Welpee wrote:The problem with these "advance stats" is it doesn't account for common sense and game situations/conditions. If Rose is being guarded by a Jose Calderon clone and KP is being guarded by a Kevin Garnett clone for most of the game, then guess what? Our best chance of winning is Rose taking more shots than KP.

Each game has it own match ups, different flows, players are hot or cold on different nights, players nursing injuries, opponents nursing injuries, etc. These advanced stats are useful but can't be used the way its being advanced in this thread unless you're talking about a video game. Fortunately these games are played and coached by humans.

I was going to say something somewhat similar.

At the end of the day we just need our players to make the right basketball decisions and the stats will fall in line. I'm pretty sure that is basically the gist of what DK is trying to say but using stats to quantify it.

Melo needs to kick the ball out a little more when he is deep in the paint instead of looking to draw the foul. He isn't going to get the foul call and kicking out for open 3 point jumpers will eventually open up the lane for him to not have to work as hard. If they have to fear that he will potentially kick out to a 3 point shooter.

Good article on usage. I think the OP uses usage solely as a function of shots taken. Clearly including turnovers we want the usage to decrease, but for me, getting into the paint is Rose's job. Turnovers may ensure from there. He may also miss many shots. But that's where I want him. Usage or not.

Welpee wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Welpee wrote:The problem with these "advance stats" is it doesn't account for common sense and game situations/conditions. If Rose is being guarded by a Jose Calderon clone and KP is being guarded by a Kevin Garnett clone for most of the game, then guess what? Our best chance of winning is Rose taking more shots than KP.

Each game has it own match ups, different flows, players are hot or cold on different nights, players nursing injuries, opponents nursing injuries, etc. These advanced stats are useful but can't be used the way its being advanced in this thread unless you're talking about a video game. Fortunately these games are played and coached by humans.

I was going to say something somewhat similar.

At the end of the day we just need our players to make the right basketball decisions and the stats will fall in line. I'm pretty sure that is basically the gist of what DK is trying to say but using stats to quantify it.

Melo needs to kick the ball out a little more when he is deep in the paint instead of looking to draw the foul. He isn't going to get the foul call and kicking out for open 3 point jumpers will eventually open up the lane for him to not have to work as hard. If they have to fear that he will potentially kick out to a 3 point shooter.

Well, in the past he just keeps harping on Rose shouldn't take more shots than KP. It's a lot more complex and nuanced than thinking if player A takes X number of shot and player B takes Y number of shots, we have a better chance of winning. Game situation, matchups, who's hot, etc. plays a huge role in shot distribution in each individual game.

I agree with you.