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OT: Family of Charlotte Shooting Victim Releases Video!
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mreinman
Posts: 37827
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Joined: 7/14/2010
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9/25/2016  6:22 PM
This officer deserves a medal for not shooting this suspect. Officer is lucky to be alive.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
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meloshouldgo
Posts: 23949
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9/25/2016  6:24 PM
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:I saw the video of the North Carolina shooting..I didn't see a gun but Lamont Scott looked like he had a gun, he was walking like he was holding a gun..He simple didn't look like a person backing away from a conflict...He had an object in his right hand. I can't fault the police here...

His main flaw was not coming out with his hands up and attempting to slowly lay on the ground. I can't speak for the officers but I don't feel that he presented any real tldanger to them. Their were multiple officers. They had taken cover behind their vehicles. The man walked out of the car like they requested. When he turned his head to witness all the different officers present is when they took him as a threat. With all that said was there a need for the multiple guns shots with the shoot to kill mentality? Would a shoulder/leg shot not be a more appropriate action in this instance?

If he had a gun in his hand then this is all moot...Dude had a gun holster around his left ankle around his white socks, I saw it, I slowed, froze, the frame from the police body cam...If he had a gun in his hands, all bets are off...Look at the police officer's point of view..You told him to drop the gun several times, he got out the car with gun in hand and moved around in a manner not to resolve the conflict..Be reasonable...

NC is an open carry state. So the main question is if he had a gun in his hand as he came out of the car. Which even after all this still isn't clear for some reason. He was an open target for multiple police officers who we all behind cover. And while his head and body turned he was shot while never even attempting to move his arms. I can't tell you what was going through his head. He was either looking for conflicted which he had no way out of but death. Or he was scared out of his mind and reacted poorly which resulted in his death. At the end of the day police had way more control over the situation and his life then he ever had over theirs.

I don't understand the argument if he had a gun in his hands then we need to examine his mental state or wait to see if he raises and fire or he is reacting poorly to commands...All that is just crazy to me..Everyone is trying to get home to their family. If I'm a police officer, I'm not trying to find out if his bullets can pierce the car I'm trying to hide behind or if he is upset or medicated etc...If you have a gun in hand and you refuse to drop it and you are backtracking like some one in combat then all bets are off...Put yourself in the situation, If you had a gun and think you life is in danger and the other person has a gun, are you going to shoot him in the leg and see what happens next??

I keep thinking back and forth on this and it's hard to really take clear position. Openly carrying a gun around is completely legal in NC. This person like everyone else knows the police are probably going to shoot and kill him in this situation based on the history of several such shootings this year. Right or wrong what do you expect him to do? If he complies and they still shoot him he didn't give himself a fighting chance. This is the dilemma created in people's mind by unchecked police brutality.

Also it's a failure of the gun laws that allow people to openly carry but doesn't provide the police with proper protocol for deescalating.

I have a concealed weapons license. At no time in my life have I or will I, take it out during a traffic stop, hold it in my hand, then refuse to drop it when asked by several police officers. And you should "expect" everyone in their right mind to do the same. However, I do agree that the process for obtaining a gun is way too easy and needs stricter requirements. It is a sad commentary that it is easier to obtain a gun than it is to obtain a driver's license. Also, police have a ridiculously hard job, but there needs to be more training on how to defuse a situation. Some of these shootings are clearly showing certain officers are just not ready for the stress of a life or death situation.

NC is open carry, so there's no reason for him to hide it. I don't know your ethnicity, but I can see why black people may justifiably fear for their life when surrounded by the police. If you think you are going to be shot (not sure how many points in your life you felt that) you too would try to defend yourself. This man had no idea if the police would let him live assuming he even had a gun in his hands. And when both your wife and the police are screaming different things at you, you can get easily confused in a very stressful situation. The man sitting in his car minding his own business and not breaking any laws, There was no "situation" till the Police went out of their way to create one.

There is nothing to get confused about. The first words out of your mouth are "officer, I have a legal hand gun". Situation diffused

Situation diffused? Tell that to the guy shot dead in Tulsa.

So then when the police approached, if he put his hands on the steering wheel and said "officer, I have a legal firearm" that they would have shot him anyway?

No one knows what they would have done, but recent history has shown it's a very real possibility.

I get it, criminals don't trust cops. But the other side of the coin is that police do not trust criminals

What you don't get, is labeling innocent people as criminals doesn't make the so.

How does being in possession of an illegal firearm and narcotics make you an innocent person?

Did they assume it was illegal because he was black? Or did the decide what they saw him smoking through the car window was weed because he was black?

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
meloshouldgo
Posts: 23949
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

9/25/2016  6:25 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Rookie wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:I saw the video of the North Carolina shooting..I didn't see a gun but Lamont Scott looked like he had a gun, he was walking like he was holding a gun..He simple didn't look like a person backing away from a conflict...He had an object in his right hand. I can't fault the police here...

His main flaw was not coming out with his hands up and attempting to slowly lay on the ground. I can't speak for the officers but I don't feel that he presented any real tldanger to them. Their were multiple officers. They had taken cover behind their vehicles. The man walked out of the car like they requested. When he turned his head to witness all the different officers present is when they took him as a threat. With all that said was there a need for the multiple guns shots with the shoot to kill mentality? Would a shoulder/leg shot not be a more appropriate action in this instance?

If he had a gun in his hand then this is all moot...Dude had a gun holster around his left ankle around his white socks, I saw it, I slowed, froze, the frame from the police body cam...If he had a gun in his hands, all bets are off...Look at the police officer's point of view..You told him to drop the gun several times, he got out the car with gun in hand and moved around in a manner not to resolve the conflict..Be reasonable...

NC is an open carry state. So the main question is if he had a gun in his hand as he came out of the car. Which even after all this still isn't clear for some reason. He was an open target for multiple police officers who we all behind cover. And while his head and body turned he was shot while never even attempting to move his arms. I can't tell you what was going through his head. He was either looking for conflicted which he had no way out of but death. Or he was scared out of his mind and reacted poorly which resulted in his death. At the end of the day police had way more control over the situation and his life then he ever had over theirs.

I don't understand the argument if he had a gun in his hands then we need to examine his mental state or wait to see if he raises and fire or he is reacting poorly to commands...All that is just crazy to me..Everyone is trying to get home to their family. If I'm a police officer, I'm not trying to find out if his bullets can pierce the car I'm trying to hide behind or if he is upset or medicated etc...If you have a gun in hand and you refuse to drop it and you are backtracking like some one in combat then all bets are off...Put yourself in the situation, If you had a gun and think you life is in danger and the other person has a gun, are you going to shoot him in the leg and see what happens next??

If this is the case then there would no difference in trained experience police and regular civilians. Police officer are trained in the gun range and trained in protocol.

Looking at the body cam footage. It explains why Scott started to back up nervously. Because the police officer with the body cam footage rolled around the car with the gun directed at him after he got out of the car. I believe he is also the officer who took the shots but not 100%.

I mean I don't see what you see Holfresh. I see him backing up from the officer who popped out from behind the car. Officers yell get on the ground. Him turn his head probably to see the other officers on his left yelling at him and immediately shot.

He was shot 5 seconds after exiting his vehicle. His only actions were backing up and turning his head right and left in a nervous state.

are we going to keep forgetting that he was holding a gun

Is that a confirmed fact?

Even the police chief has said there's no video evidence he was holding a gun

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
holfresh
Posts: 38679
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9/25/2016  6:27 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:I saw the video of the North Carolina shooting..I didn't see a gun but Lamont Scott looked like he had a gun, he was walking like he was holding a gun..He simple didn't look like a person backing away from a conflict...He had an object in his right hand. I can't fault the police here...

His main flaw was not coming out with his hands up and attempting to slowly lay on the ground. I can't speak for the officers but I don't feel that he presented any real tldanger to them. Their were multiple officers. They had taken cover behind their vehicles. The man walked out of the car like they requested. When he turned his head to witness all the different officers present is when they took him as a threat. With all that said was there a need for the multiple guns shots with the shoot to kill mentality? Would a shoulder/leg shot not be a more appropriate action in this instance?

If he had a gun in his hand then this is all moot...Dude had a gun holster around his left ankle around his white socks, I saw it, I slowed, froze, the frame from the police body cam...If he had a gun in his hands, all bets are off...Look at the police officer's point of view..You told him to drop the gun several times, he got out the car with gun in hand and moved around in a manner not to resolve the conflict..Be reasonable...

NC is an open carry state. So the main question is if he had a gun in his hand as he came out of the car. Which even after all this still isn't clear for some reason. He was an open target for multiple police officers who we all behind cover. And while his head and body turned he was shot while never even attempting to move his arms. I can't tell you what was going through his head. He was either looking for conflicted which he had no way out of but death. Or he was scared out of his mind and reacted poorly which resulted in his death. At the end of the day police had way more control over the situation and his life then he ever had over theirs.

I don't understand the argument if he had a gun in his hands then we need to examine his mental state or wait to see if he raises and fire or he is reacting poorly to commands...All that is just crazy to me..Everyone is trying to get home to their family. If I'm a police officer, I'm not trying to find out if his bullets can pierce the car I'm trying to hide behind or if he is upset or medicated etc...If you have a gun in hand and you refuse to drop it and you are backtracking like some one in combat then all bets are off...Put yourself in the situation, If you had a gun and think you life is in danger and the other person has a gun, are you going to shoot him in the leg and see what happens next??

If this is the case then there would no difference in trained experience police and regular civilians. Police officer are trained in the gun range and trained in protocol.

Looking at the body cam footage. It explains why Scott started to back up nervously. Because the police officer with the body cam footage rolled around the car with the gun directed at him after he got out of the car. I believe he is also the officer who took the shots but not 100%.

I mean I don't see what you see Holfresh. I see him backing up from the officer who popped out from behind the car. Officers yell get on the ground. Him turn his head probably to see the other officers on his left yelling at him and immediately shot.

He was shot 5 seconds after exiting his vehicle. His only actions were backing up and turning his head right and left in a nervous state.

Here is how Holfresh would handle this situation if he was in the place of Mr. Scott...First, I'll drop the gun or any object I have as instructed and tell the police officers that I did indeed drop what ever they wanted me to drop...I would put my hands up in the car to show I'm complying with their wishes..I would then tell the officers that I am doing everything to comply with their wishes because I want to get home safely to my kids...What is the next thing you want me to do Mr. Officer???..I certainly won't ignore their repeated calls to drop the gun then exit the vehicle with any object in my hand and a gun holsters on my leg...

mreinman
Posts: 37827
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Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

9/25/2016  6:34 PM
This seemed like an execution (even though this guy almost deserved it) ... if the people across the street did not video this ...

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Rookie
Posts: 23509
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Member: #2274

9/25/2016  6:39 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:I saw the video of the North Carolina shooting..I didn't see a gun but Lamont Scott looked like he had a gun, he was walking like he was holding a gun..He simple didn't look like a person backing away from a conflict...He had an object in his right hand. I can't fault the police here...

His main flaw was not coming out with his hands up and attempting to slowly lay on the ground. I can't speak for the officers but I don't feel that he presented any real tldanger to them. Their were multiple officers. They had taken cover behind their vehicles. The man walked out of the car like they requested. When he turned his head to witness all the different officers present is when they took him as a threat. With all that said was there a need for the multiple guns shots with the shoot to kill mentality? Would a shoulder/leg shot not be a more appropriate action in this instance?

If he had a gun in his hand then this is all moot...Dude had a gun holster around his left ankle around his white socks, I saw it, I slowed, froze, the frame from the police body cam...If he had a gun in his hands, all bets are off...Look at the police officer's point of view..You told him to drop the gun several times, he got out the car with gun in hand and moved around in a manner not to resolve the conflict..Be reasonable...

NC is an open carry state. So the main question is if he had a gun in his hand as he came out of the car. Which even after all this still isn't clear for some reason. He was an open target for multiple police officers who we all behind cover. And while his head and body turned he was shot while never even attempting to move his arms. I can't tell you what was going through his head. He was either looking for conflicted which he had no way out of but death. Or he was scared out of his mind and reacted poorly which resulted in his death. At the end of the day police had way more control over the situation and his life then he ever had over theirs.

I don't understand the argument if he had a gun in his hands then we need to examine his mental state or wait to see if he raises and fire or he is reacting poorly to commands...All that is just crazy to me..Everyone is trying to get home to their family. If I'm a police officer, I'm not trying to find out if his bullets can pierce the car I'm trying to hide behind or if he is upset or medicated etc...If you have a gun in hand and you refuse to drop it and you are backtracking like some one in combat then all bets are off...Put yourself in the situation, If you had a gun and think you life is in danger and the other person has a gun, are you going to shoot him in the leg and see what happens next??

I keep thinking back and forth on this and it's hard to really take clear position. Openly carrying a gun around is completely legal in NC. This person like everyone else knows the police are probably going to shoot and kill him in this situation based on the history of several such shootings this year. Right or wrong what do you expect him to do? If he complies and they still shoot him he didn't give himself a fighting chance. This is the dilemma created in people's mind by unchecked police brutality.

Also it's a failure of the gun laws that allow people to openly carry but doesn't provide the police with proper protocol for deescalating.

I have a concealed weapons license. At no time in my life have I or will I, take it out during a traffic stop, hold it in my hand, then refuse to drop it when asked by several police officers. And you should "expect" everyone in their right mind to do the same. However, I do agree that the process for obtaining a gun is way too easy and needs stricter requirements. It is a sad commentary that it is easier to obtain a gun than it is to obtain a driver's license. Also, police have a ridiculously hard job, but there needs to be more training on how to defuse a situation. Some of these shootings are clearly showing certain officers are just not ready for the stress of a life or death situation.

NC is open carry, so there's no reason for him to hide it. I don't know your ethnicity, but I can see why black people may justifiably fear for their life when surrounded by the police. If you think you are going to be shot (not sure how many points in your life you felt that) you too would try to defend yourself. This man had no idea if the police would let him live assuming he even had a gun in his hands. And when both your wife and the police are screaming different things at you, you can get easily confused in a very stressful situation. The man sitting in his car minding his own business and not breaking any laws, There was no "situation" till the Police went out of their way to create one.

There is nothing to get confused about. The first words out of your mouth are "officer, I have a legal hand gun". Situation diffused

Situation diffused? Tell that to the guy shot dead in Tulsa.

So then when the police approached, if he put his hands on the steering wheel and said "officer, I have a legal firearm" that they would have shot him anyway?

No one knows what they would have done, but recent history has shown it's a very real possibility.

I get it, criminals don't trust cops. But the other side of the coin is that police do not trust criminals

What you don't get, is labeling innocent people as criminals doesn't make the so.

How does being in possession of an illegal firearm and narcotics make you an innocent person?

Did they assume it was illegal because he was black? Or did the decide what they saw him smoking through the car window was weed because he was black?

I am going to assume that you watched all of the video's and heard the police yelling to put the gun down. Yes, NC is an open carry state, but that doesn't mean that you can purchase a weapon illegally and carry it or that you don't have to have your permit with you to produce to police if requested. Carrying a weapon is a big responsibility. Getting the training to know how to handle a situation if involved in a stop IMHO is a must before purchasing a weapon. I asked all of these questions myself and that is why I am responding to these questions. Quite frankly, I survived the 80's in NY when race tension was high. I have been the guy in that parking lot in the video in Charlotte along with my friends who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I entered this thread because I wanted to discuss social issues. I see our country going back to that place I remember. I would never, ever want to hurt anybody...ever! But it doesn't mean that I will ever be unprepared again. That preparation involves knowledge and training. Anyone who carries a weapon and talked that for granted should not be carrying a weapon.

newyorknewyork
Posts: 27064
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Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
9/25/2016  6:39 PM
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:I saw the video of the North Carolina shooting..I didn't see a gun but Lamont Scott looked like he had a gun, he was walking like he was holding a gun..He simple didn't look like a person backing away from a conflict...He had an object in his right hand. I can't fault the police here...

His main flaw was not coming out with his hands up and attempting to slowly lay on the ground. I can't speak for the officers but I don't feel that he presented any real tldanger to them. Their were multiple officers. They had taken cover behind their vehicles. The man walked out of the car like they requested. When he turned his head to witness all the different officers present is when they took him as a threat. With all that said was there a need for the multiple guns shots with the shoot to kill mentality? Would a shoulder/leg shot not be a more appropriate action in this instance?

If he had a gun in his hand then this is all moot...Dude had a gun holster around his left ankle around his white socks, I saw it, I slowed, froze, the frame from the police body cam...If he had a gun in his hands, all bets are off...Look at the police officer's point of view..You told him to drop the gun several times, he got out the car with gun in hand and moved around in a manner not to resolve the conflict..Be reasonable...

NC is an open carry state. So the main question is if he had a gun in his hand as he came out of the car. Which even after all this still isn't clear for some reason. He was an open target for multiple police officers who we all behind cover. And while his head and body turned he was shot while never even attempting to move his arms. I can't tell you what was going through his head. He was either looking for conflicted which he had no way out of but death. Or he was scared out of his mind and reacted poorly which resulted in his death. At the end of the day police had way more control over the situation and his life then he ever had over theirs.

I don't understand the argument if he had a gun in his hands then we need to examine his mental state or wait to see if he raises and fire or he is reacting poorly to commands...All that is just crazy to me..Everyone is trying to get home to their family. If I'm a police officer, I'm not trying to find out if his bullets can pierce the car I'm trying to hide behind or if he is upset or medicated etc...If you have a gun in hand and you refuse to drop it and you are backtracking like some one in combat then all bets are off...Put yourself in the situation, If you had a gun and think you life is in danger and the other person has a gun, are you going to shoot him in the leg and see what happens next??

If this is the case then there would no difference in trained experience police and regular civilians. Police officer are trained in the gun range and trained in protocol.

Looking at the body cam footage. It explains why Scott started to back up nervously. Because the police officer with the body cam footage rolled around the car with the gun directed at him after he got out of the car. I believe he is also the officer who took the shots but not 100%.

I mean I don't see what you see Holfresh. I see him backing up from the officer who popped out from behind the car. Officers yell get on the ground. Him turn his head probably to see the other officers on his left yelling at him and immediately shot.

He was shot 5 seconds after exiting his vehicle. His only actions were backing up and turning his head right and left in a nervous state.

Here is how Holfresh would handle this situation if he was in the place of Mr. Scott...First, I'll drop the gun or any object I have as instructed and tell the police officers that I did indeed drop what ever they wanted me to drop...I would put my hands up in the car to show I'm complying with their wishes..I would then tell the officers that I am doing everything to comply with their wishes because I want to get home safely to my kids...What is the next thing you want me to do Mr. Officer???..I certainly won't ignore their repeated calls to drop the gun then exit the vehicle with any object in my hand and a gun holsters on my leg...

The footage doesn't show a clear picture of him him holding anything in his hand. Don't know if Scott is trained in these specific situations but I do know the police are supposed to be. He was shot literally 5 seconds after leaving his car. With about 4 gunshots fired. We will have a difference of opinion here because based of what has been visible and the info presented. I don't see how his death was warrented.

I mean the dude who set off a bomb in NY who had a shootout with the police in New Jerseys death was more warranted since he was actually a terrorist and actually shot and injured 2 officers. Yet he was taken alive, shot in I believe the shoulder.

mreinman
Posts: 37827
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Member: #3189

9/25/2016  6:40 PM
Here is another stupid kid who got himself killed by not complying. How stupid can people be? You get stopped, you follow directions and shut the hell up. You are holding something? You better put it down if you are told. COMPLY!!

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
Posts: 37827
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Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

9/25/2016  6:48 PM
and it happens to white guys too.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
meloshouldgo
Posts: 23949
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

9/25/2016  6:59 PM
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:I saw the video of the North Carolina shooting..I didn't see a gun but Lamont Scott looked like he had a gun, he was walking like he was holding a gun..He simple didn't look like a person backing away from a conflict...He had an object in his right hand. I can't fault the police here...

His main flaw was not coming out with his hands up and attempting to slowly lay on the ground. I can't speak for the officers but I don't feel that he presented any real tldanger to them. Their were multiple officers. They had taken cover behind their vehicles. The man walked out of the car like they requested. When he turned his head to witness all the different officers present is when they took him as a threat. With all that said was there a need for the multiple guns shots with the shoot to kill mentality? Would a shoulder/leg shot not be a more appropriate action in this instance?

If he had a gun in his hand then this is all moot...Dude had a gun holster around his left ankle around his white socks, I saw it, I slowed, froze, the frame from the police body cam...If he had a gun in his hands, all bets are off...Look at the police officer's point of view..You told him to drop the gun several times, he got out the car with gun in hand and moved around in a manner not to resolve the conflict..Be reasonable...

NC is an open carry state. So the main question is if he had a gun in his hand as he came out of the car. Which even after all this still isn't clear for some reason. He was an open target for multiple police officers who we all behind cover. And while his head and body turned he was shot while never even attempting to move his arms. I can't tell you what was going through his head. He was either looking for conflicted which he had no way out of but death. Or he was scared out of his mind and reacted poorly which resulted in his death. At the end of the day police had way more control over the situation and his life then he ever had over theirs.

I don't understand the argument if he had a gun in his hands then we need to examine his mental state or wait to see if he raises and fire or he is reacting poorly to commands...All that is just crazy to me..Everyone is trying to get home to their family. If I'm a police officer, I'm not trying to find out if his bullets can pierce the car I'm trying to hide behind or if he is upset or medicated etc...If you have a gun in hand and you refuse to drop it and you are backtracking like some one in combat then all bets are off...Put yourself in the situation, If you had a gun and think you life is in danger and the other person has a gun, are you going to shoot him in the leg and see what happens next??

I keep thinking back and forth on this and it's hard to really take clear position. Openly carrying a gun around is completely legal in NC. This person like everyone else knows the police are probably going to shoot and kill him in this situation based on the history of several such shootings this year. Right or wrong what do you expect him to do? If he complies and they still shoot him he didn't give himself a fighting chance. This is the dilemma created in people's mind by unchecked police brutality.

Also it's a failure of the gun laws that allow people to openly carry but doesn't provide the police with proper protocol for deescalating.

I have a concealed weapons license. At no time in my life have I or will I, take it out during a traffic stop, hold it in my hand, then refuse to drop it when asked by several police officers. And you should "expect" everyone in their right mind to do the same. However, I do agree that the process for obtaining a gun is way too easy and needs stricter requirements. It is a sad commentary that it is easier to obtain a gun than it is to obtain a driver's license. Also, police have a ridiculously hard job, but there needs to be more training on how to defuse a situation. Some of these shootings are clearly showing certain officers are just not ready for the stress of a life or death situation.

NC is open carry, so there's no reason for him to hide it. I don't know your ethnicity, but I can see why black people may justifiably fear for their life when surrounded by the police. If you think you are going to be shot (not sure how many points in your life you felt that) you too would try to defend yourself. This man had no idea if the police would let him live assuming he even had a gun in his hands. And when both your wife and the police are screaming different things at you, you can get easily confused in a very stressful situation. The man sitting in his car minding his own business and not breaking any laws, There was no "situation" till the Police went out of their way to create one.

There is nothing to get confused about. The first words out of your mouth are "officer, I have a legal hand gun". Situation diffused

Situation diffused? Tell that to the guy shot dead in Tulsa.

So then when the police approached, if he put his hands on the steering wheel and said "officer, I have a legal firearm" that they would have shot him anyway?

No one knows what they would have done, but recent history has shown it's a very real possibility.

I get it, criminals don't trust cops. But the other side of the coin is that police do not trust criminals

What you don't get, is labeling innocent people as criminals doesn't make the so.

How does being in possession of an illegal firearm and narcotics make you an innocent person?

Did they assume it was illegal because he was black? Or did the decide what they saw him smoking through the car window was weed because he was black?

I am going to assume that you watched all of the video's and heard the police yelling to put the gun down. Yes, NC is an open carry state, but that doesn't mean that you can purchase a weapon illegally and carry it or that you don't have to have your permit with you to produce to police if requested. Carrying a weapon is a big responsibility. Getting the training to know how to handle a situation if involved in a stop IMHO is a must before purchasing a weapon. I asked all of these questions myself and that is why I am responding to these questions. Quite frankly, I survived the 80's in NY when race tension was high. I have been the guy in that parking lot in the video in Charlotte along with my friends who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I entered this thread because I wanted to discuss social issues. I see our country going back to that place I remember. I would never, ever want to hurt anybody...ever! But it doesn't mean that I will ever be unprepared again. That preparation involves knowledge and training. Anyone who carries a weapon and talked that for granted should not be carrying a weapon.

Dude you keep saying his weapon was illegal and he didn't have a permit. Neither of these are established facts and the cops had no business assuming he had an "illegal" gun. There is also no actual evidence that he was holding a gun. So stop trying to twist the facts around to suit your narrative.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
Rookie
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9/25/2016  7:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/25/2016  7:05 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:I saw the video of the North Carolina shooting..I didn't see a gun but Lamont Scott looked like he had a gun, he was walking like he was holding a gun..He simple didn't look like a person backing away from a conflict...He had an object in his right hand. I can't fault the police here...

His main flaw was not coming out with his hands up and attempting to slowly lay on the ground. I can't speak for the officers but I don't feel that he presented any real tldanger to them. Their were multiple officers. They had taken cover behind their vehicles. The man walked out of the car like they requested. When he turned his head to witness all the different officers present is when they took him as a threat. With all that said was there a need for the multiple guns shots with the shoot to kill mentality? Would a shoulder/leg shot not be a more appropriate action in this instance?

If he had a gun in his hand then this is all moot...Dude had a gun holster around his left ankle around his white socks, I saw it, I slowed, froze, the frame from the police body cam...If he had a gun in his hands, all bets are off...Look at the police officer's point of view..You told him to drop the gun several times, he got out the car with gun in hand and moved around in a manner not to resolve the conflict..Be reasonable...

NC is an open carry state. So the main question is if he had a gun in his hand as he came out of the car. Which even after all this still isn't clear for some reason. He was an open target for multiple police officers who we all behind cover. And while his head and body turned he was shot while never even attempting to move his arms. I can't tell you what was going through his head. He was either looking for conflicted which he had no way out of but death. Or he was scared out of his mind and reacted poorly which resulted in his death. At the end of the day police had way more control over the situation and his life then he ever had over theirs.

I don't understand the argument if he had a gun in his hands then we need to examine his mental state or wait to see if he raises and fire or he is reacting poorly to commands...All that is just crazy to me..Everyone is trying to get home to their family. If I'm a police officer, I'm not trying to find out if his bullets can pierce the car I'm trying to hide behind or if he is upset or medicated etc...If you have a gun in hand and you refuse to drop it and you are backtracking like some one in combat then all bets are off...Put yourself in the situation, If you had a gun and think you life is in danger and the other person has a gun, are you going to shoot him in the leg and see what happens next??

I keep thinking back and forth on this and it's hard to really take clear position. Openly carrying a gun around is completely legal in NC. This person like everyone else knows the police are probably going to shoot and kill him in this situation based on the history of several such shootings this year. Right or wrong what do you expect him to do? If he complies and they still shoot him he didn't give himself a fighting chance. This is the dilemma created in people's mind by unchecked police brutality.

Also it's a failure of the gun laws that allow people to openly carry but doesn't provide the police with proper protocol for deescalating.

I have a concealed weapons license. At no time in my life have I or will I, take it out during a traffic stop, hold it in my hand, then refuse to drop it when asked by several police officers. And you should "expect" everyone in their right mind to do the same. However, I do agree that the process for obtaining a gun is way too easy and needs stricter requirements. It is a sad commentary that it is easier to obtain a gun than it is to obtain a driver's license. Also, police have a ridiculously hard job, but there needs to be more training on how to defuse a situation. Some of these shootings are clearly showing certain officers are just not ready for the stress of a life or death situation.

NC is open carry, so there's no reason for him to hide it. I don't know your ethnicity, but I can see why black people may justifiably fear for their life when surrounded by the police. If you think you are going to be shot (not sure how many points in your life you felt that) you too would try to defend yourself. This man had no idea if the police would let him live assuming he even had a gun in his hands. And when both your wife and the police are screaming different things at you, you can get easily confused in a very stressful situation. The man sitting in his car minding his own business and not breaking any laws, There was no "situation" till the Police went out of their way to create one.

There is nothing to get confused about. The first words out of your mouth are "officer, I have a legal hand gun". Situation diffused

Situation diffused? Tell that to the guy shot dead in Tulsa.

So then when the police approached, if he put his hands on the steering wheel and said "officer, I have a legal firearm" that they would have shot him anyway?

No one knows what they would have done, but recent history has shown it's a very real possibility.

I get it, criminals don't trust cops. But the other side of the coin is that police do not trust criminals

What you don't get, is labeling innocent people as criminals doesn't make the so.

How does being in possession of an illegal firearm and narcotics make you an innocent person?

Did they assume it was illegal because he was black? Or did the decide what they saw him smoking through the car window was weed because he was black?

I am going to assume that you watched all of the video's and heard the police yelling to put the gun down. Yes, NC is an open carry state, but that doesn't mean that you can purchase a weapon illegally and carry it or that you don't have to have your permit with you to produce to police if requested. Carrying a weapon is a big responsibility. Getting the training to know how to handle a situation if involved in a stop IMHO is a must before purchasing a weapon. I asked all of these questions myself and that is why I am responding to these questions. Quite frankly, I survived the 80's in NY when race tension was high. I have been the guy in that parking lot in the video in Charlotte along with my friends who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I entered this thread because I wanted to discuss social issues. I see our country going back to that place I remember. I would never, ever want to hurt anybody...ever! But it doesn't mean that I will ever be unprepared again. That preparation involves knowledge and training. Anyone who carries a weapon and talked that for granted should not be carrying a weapon.

Dude you keep saying his weapon was illegal and he didn't have a permit. Neither of these are established facts and the cops had no business assuming he had an "illegal" gun. There is also no actual evidence that he was holding a gun. So stop trying to twist the facts around to suit your narrative.

do you mean other then the weapon that they have in evidence that has both his fingerprints and DNA on it?

meloshouldgo
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9/25/2016  7:08 PM
OMFG - If he owned a gun and kept it in the car it would have his fingerprints. That doesn't automatically prove he was holding it when they shot him. And you can't really answer why they assumed it was an illegal weapon can you? Or how they decided he was smoking weed when they first saw him?
The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
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9/25/2016  7:17 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:OMFG - If he owned a gun and kept it in the car it would have his fingerprints. That doesn't automatically prove he was holding it when they shot him. And you can't really answer why they assumed it was an illegal weapon can you? Or how they decided he was smoking weed when they first saw him?

So then you are saying that we should all wait for the investigation to be completed before jumping to conclusions and rioting in the streets? Social justice seems to be the theme of the day so lets discuss the incomplete evidence as facts and post youtube videos t o support our conclusions....

Just curious here, I am reading a book called Hillbilly Elegy, has anyone else read this book? I think it is germane to discussing social issues in this country that we are all facing

meloshouldgo
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9/25/2016  7:25 PM
Nope, I am saying they had no concrete reasons for surrounding him in the first place. They and not him, created this situation, they escalated it and got him into a state of panic. And then they killed him and will claim self defense. Who needs social justice when the police are justified in instigating scenarios where they can shoot and kill people on the streets.
The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
meloshouldgo
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9/25/2016  7:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/25/2016  7:29 PM
You are the one who posted multiple times that his weapon was illegal and he didn't have a permit for it. Makes sense that you can sit here and accuse other people of "social justice".

SMH

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
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9/25/2016  7:36 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:Nope, I am saying they had no concrete reasons for surrounding him in the first place. They and not him, created this situation, they escalated it and got him into a state of panic. And then they killed him and will claim self defense. Who needs social justice when the police are justified in instigating scenarios where they can shoot and kill people on the streets.

except that they observed him rolling and smoking a joint and playing with his gun. So then, by your account, the police created this situation and escalated it by telling him to get out of the car and drop the gun. Yes the situation escalated but it also could have de-escalated by simply complying with the police's commands. I guess it is also justified for rioters to damage property, create chaos and fear and injure innocent people. It might even also be justified for a billionaire to finance this chaos and national destabilization by dividing people ethnically.

nixluva
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USA
9/25/2016  7:38 PM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:I saw the video of the North Carolina shooting..I didn't see a gun but Lamont Scott looked like he had a gun, he was walking like he was holding a gun..He simple didn't look like a person backing away from a conflict...He had an object in his right hand. I can't fault the police here...

His main flaw was not coming out with his hands up and attempting to slowly lay on the ground. I can't speak for the officers but I don't feel that he presented any real tldanger to them. Their were multiple officers. They had taken cover behind their vehicles. The man walked out of the car like they requested. When he turned his head to witness all the different officers present is when they took him as a threat. With all that said was there a need for the multiple guns shots with the shoot to kill mentality? Would a shoulder/leg shot not be a more appropriate action in this instance?

If he had a gun in his hand then this is all moot...Dude had a gun holster around his left ankle around his white socks, I saw it, I slowed, froze, the frame from the police body cam...If he had a gun in his hands, all bets are off...Look at the police officer's point of view..You told him to drop the gun several times, he got out the car with gun in hand and moved around in a manner not to resolve the conflict..Be reasonable...

NC is an open carry state. So the main question is if he had a gun in his hand as he came out of the car. Which even after all this still isn't clear for some reason. He was an open target for multiple police officers who we all behind cover. And while his head and body turned he was shot while never even attempting to move his arms. I can't tell you what was going through his head. He was either looking for conflicted which he had no way out of but death. Or he was scared out of his mind and reacted poorly which resulted in his death. At the end of the day police had way more control over the situation and his life then he ever had over theirs.

I don't understand the argument if he had a gun in his hands then we need to examine his mental state or wait to see if he raises and fire or he is reacting poorly to commands...All that is just crazy to me..Everyone is trying to get home to their family. If I'm a police officer, I'm not trying to find out if his bullets can pierce the car I'm trying to hide behind or if he is upset or medicated etc...If you have a gun in hand and you refuse to drop it and you are backtracking like some one in combat then all bets are off...Put yourself in the situation, If you had a gun and think you life is in danger and the other person has a gun, are you going to shoot him in the leg and see what happens next??

I keep thinking back and forth on this and it's hard to really take clear position. Openly carrying a gun around is completely legal in NC. This person like everyone else knows the police are probably going to shoot and kill him in this situation based on the history of several such shootings this year. Right or wrong what do you expect him to do? If he complies and they still shoot him he didn't give himself a fighting chance. This is the dilemma created in people's mind by unchecked police brutality.

Also it's a failure of the gun laws that allow people to openly carry but doesn't provide the police with proper protocol for deescalating.

I have a concealed weapons license. At no time in my life have I or will I, take it out during a traffic stop, hold it in my hand, then refuse to drop it when asked by several police officers. And you should "expect" everyone in their right mind to do the same. However, I do agree that the process for obtaining a gun is way too easy and needs stricter requirements. It is a sad commentary that it is easier to obtain a gun than it is to obtain a driver's license. Also, police have a ridiculously hard job, but there needs to be more training on how to defuse a situation. Some of these shootings are clearly showing certain officers are just not ready for the stress of a life or death situation.

NC is open carry, so there's no reason for him to hide it. I don't know your ethnicity, but I can see why black people may justifiably fear for their life when surrounded by the police. If you think you are going to be shot (not sure how many points in your life you felt that) you too would try to defend yourself. This man had no idea if the police would let him live assuming he even had a gun in his hands. And when both your wife and the police are screaming different things at you, you can get easily confused in a very stressful situation. The man sitting in his car minding his own business and not breaking any laws, There was no "situation" till the Police went out of their way to create one.

There is nothing to get confused about. The first words out of your mouth are "officer, I have a legal hand gun". Situation diffused

Situation diffused? Tell that to the guy shot dead in Tulsa.

So then when the police approached, if he put his hands on the steering wheel and said "officer, I have a legal firearm" that they would have shot him anyway?

No one knows what they would have done, but recent history has shown it's a very real possibility.

why was he out of his car? and the way he went back to get something, if I was a cop I would have certainly feared that he was going for a gun.

It would be nice if people were trained on what to do when pulled over to not scare the sh1t out of the cops.


Have you ever had a cop draw his gun on you? I have! My Dad is a retired Police Lieutenant and I still was unsure of what to do in that moment. I was in South
Jamaica, Queens, in the dead of winter, in the mid 80's and we had called the police because a rental property was broken into. I was on the porch and when one of the cops approached I started to direct him over and when he got close I was standing there with my hands in my pockets cuz it was cold. He put his hands on his gun and told me to take my hands out of my pockets slowly. I just remember locking up and thinking what is the right speed to move? If I go too slow it may freak him out and if it's too fast... Thank God nothing happened but it was a very scary situation and I can tell you that when you see a Gun in a cop's hand and he's got a stern look on his face you will panic. The thing is I told him we were the ones who called but he was dead serious about seeing my hands.

My thing with all of this is that Civilians are expected to react in a perfect way to situations that they are not used to. Cops do this all the time and are used to the weird reactions people have and should not be panicking and just shooting people who have their wallet in their hands or NOTHING in their hands. Even when someone has a gun in their hands a cop still has to be professional and follow proper tactics.

meloshouldgo
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9/25/2016  7:44 PM
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Nope, I am saying they had no concrete reasons for surrounding him in the first place. They and not him, created this situation, they escalated it and got him into a state of panic. And then they killed him and will claim self defense. Who needs social justice when the police are justified in instigating scenarios where they can shoot and kill people on the streets.

except that they observed him rolling and smoking a joint and playing with his gun. So then, by your account, the police created this situation and escalated it by telling him to get out of the car and drop the gun. Yes the situation escalated but it also could have de-escalated by simply complying with the police's commands. I guess it is also justified for rioters to damage property, create chaos and fear and injure innocent people. It might even also be justified for a billionaire to finance this chaos and national destabilization by dividing people ethnically.

Here's an idea, you can't observe someone smoking through a car window from 25-30 feet away and conclude he is smoking a joint. And if he has a legally owned gun he can play with it all he wants in his car.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
Rookie
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9/25/2016  7:47 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Nope, I am saying they had no concrete reasons for surrounding him in the first place. They and not him, created this situation, they escalated it and got him into a state of panic. And then they killed him and will claim self defense. Who needs social justice when the police are justified in instigating scenarios where they can shoot and kill people on the streets.

except that they observed him rolling and smoking a joint and playing with his gun. So then, by your account, the police created this situation and escalated it by telling him to get out of the car and drop the gun. Yes the situation escalated but it also could have de-escalated by simply complying with the police's commands. I guess it is also justified for rioters to damage property, create chaos and fear and injure innocent people. It might even also be justified for a billionaire to finance this chaos and national destabilization by dividing people ethnically.

Here's an idea, you can't observe someone smoking through a car window from 25-30 feet away and conclude he is smoking a joint. And if he has a legally owned gun he can play with it all he wants in his car.

seriously, I am done debating with you until you get up to date with all of the facts as they have been disclosed. They were in the car next to his truck in the parking lot. They were there to serve a warrant. They observed him and then left the parking lot to put on their gear identifying them as police. stop being lazy and come back when you know the details as they have been released.

mreinman
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9/25/2016  7:49 PM
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Rookie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
holfresh wrote:I saw the video of the North Carolina shooting..I didn't see a gun but Lamont Scott looked like he had a gun, he was walking like he was holding a gun..He simple didn't look like a person backing away from a conflict...He had an object in his right hand. I can't fault the police here...

His main flaw was not coming out with his hands up and attempting to slowly lay on the ground. I can't speak for the officers but I don't feel that he presented any real tldanger to them. Their were multiple officers. They had taken cover behind their vehicles. The man walked out of the car like they requested. When he turned his head to witness all the different officers present is when they took him as a threat. With all that said was there a need for the multiple guns shots with the shoot to kill mentality? Would a shoulder/leg shot not be a more appropriate action in this instance?

If he had a gun in his hand then this is all moot...Dude had a gun holster around his left ankle around his white socks, I saw it, I slowed, froze, the frame from the police body cam...If he had a gun in his hands, all bets are off...Look at the police officer's point of view..You told him to drop the gun several times, he got out the car with gun in hand and moved around in a manner not to resolve the conflict..Be reasonable...

NC is an open carry state. So the main question is if he had a gun in his hand as he came out of the car. Which even after all this still isn't clear for some reason. He was an open target for multiple police officers who we all behind cover. And while his head and body turned he was shot while never even attempting to move his arms. I can't tell you what was going through his head. He was either looking for conflicted which he had no way out of but death. Or he was scared out of his mind and reacted poorly which resulted in his death. At the end of the day police had way more control over the situation and his life then he ever had over theirs.

I don't understand the argument if he had a gun in his hands then we need to examine his mental state or wait to see if he raises and fire or he is reacting poorly to commands...All that is just crazy to me..Everyone is trying to get home to their family. If I'm a police officer, I'm not trying to find out if his bullets can pierce the car I'm trying to hide behind or if he is upset or medicated etc...If you have a gun in hand and you refuse to drop it and you are backtracking like some one in combat then all bets are off...Put yourself in the situation, If you had a gun and think you life is in danger and the other person has a gun, are you going to shoot him in the leg and see what happens next??

I keep thinking back and forth on this and it's hard to really take clear position. Openly carrying a gun around is completely legal in NC. This person like everyone else knows the police are probably going to shoot and kill him in this situation based on the history of several such shootings this year. Right or wrong what do you expect him to do? If he complies and they still shoot him he didn't give himself a fighting chance. This is the dilemma created in people's mind by unchecked police brutality.

Also it's a failure of the gun laws that allow people to openly carry but doesn't provide the police with proper protocol for deescalating.

I have a concealed weapons license. At no time in my life have I or will I, take it out during a traffic stop, hold it in my hand, then refuse to drop it when asked by several police officers. And you should "expect" everyone in their right mind to do the same. However, I do agree that the process for obtaining a gun is way too easy and needs stricter requirements. It is a sad commentary that it is easier to obtain a gun than it is to obtain a driver's license. Also, police have a ridiculously hard job, but there needs to be more training on how to defuse a situation. Some of these shootings are clearly showing certain officers are just not ready for the stress of a life or death situation.

NC is open carry, so there's no reason for him to hide it. I don't know your ethnicity, but I can see why black people may justifiably fear for their life when surrounded by the police. If you think you are going to be shot (not sure how many points in your life you felt that) you too would try to defend yourself. This man had no idea if the police would let him live assuming he even had a gun in his hands. And when both your wife and the police are screaming different things at you, you can get easily confused in a very stressful situation. The man sitting in his car minding his own business and not breaking any laws, There was no "situation" till the Police went out of their way to create one.

There is nothing to get confused about. The first words out of your mouth are "officer, I have a legal hand gun". Situation diffused

Situation diffused? Tell that to the guy shot dead in Tulsa.

So then when the police approached, if he put his hands on the steering wheel and said "officer, I have a legal firearm" that they would have shot him anyway?

No one knows what they would have done, but recent history has shown it's a very real possibility.

why was he out of his car? and the way he went back to get something, if I was a cop I would have certainly feared that he was going for a gun.

It would be nice if people were trained on what to do when pulled over to not scare the sh1t out of the cops.


Have you ever had a cop draw his gun on you? I have! My Dad is a retired Police Lieutenant and I still was unsure of what to do in that moment. I was in South
Jamaica, Queens, in the dead of winter, in the mid 80's and we had called the police because a rental property was broken into. I was on the porch and when one of the cops approached I started to direct him over and when he got close I was standing there with my hands in my pockets cuz it was cold. He put his hands on his gun and told me to take my hands out of my pockets slowly. I just remember locking up and thinking what is the right speed to move? If I go too slow it may freak him out and if it's too fast... Thank God nothing happened but it was a very scary situation and I can tell you that when you see a Gun in a cop's hand and he's got a stern look on his face you will panic. The thing is I told him we were the ones who called but he was dead serious about seeing my hands.

My thing with all of this is that Civilians are expected to react in a perfect way to situations that they are not used to. Cops do this all the time and are used to the weird reactions people have and should not be panicking and just shooting people who have their wallet in their hands or NOTHING in their hands. Even when someone has a gun in their hands a cop still has to be professional and follow proper tactics.

that poor guy did not mean to do what he did but these guys need to be trained as well. I have been pulled over > 100 times and of course, I would never ever get out of the car. I follow a protocol because a state trooper once told me exactly what scares cops and what you need to do to alleviate that fear. Guess what ... its gotten me out of almost every ticket :-)

I get that some people have no idea what to do ... what can be done about that?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
OT: Family of Charlotte Shooting Victim Releases Video!

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