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OT: Family of Charlotte Shooting Victim Releases Video!
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nixluva
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9/23/2016  1:17 PM
I don't have the video yet but they are showing it on TV. It's really going to open up a lot of questions. The video is from the man's wife. She doesn't capture the actual gun shots, but she did get video of just before and after he was shot.
I'll post more as it comes.
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nixluva
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9/23/2016  1:20 PM
The MSNBC video doesn't show an gun at his feet as the Photo that was released by the police showed. It also looks like one of the cops threw something down, but this is still early on in the process. It just looks a bit fishy, but there could be an explanation for this. I'm just writing what they're saying.

His wife warned the cops that he had a Traumatic Brain Injury and that he had just taken his medicine. She begged the cops not to shoot him.

nixluva
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9/23/2016  1:24 PM
here is the video
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/exclusive-video-moments-leading-up-to-charlotte-shooting-of-keith-scott-771901507743
nixluva
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9/23/2016  1:37 PM
It looks to me like the Black Cop threw down some rubber gloves that were handed to him by another cop. It's hard to make out but that's what it looks like to me. Black rubber gloves. I don't see a gun tho. Unless they had already picked up the gun you don't see it in the video on the ground near the body. You don't see any of the cops handling a gun they took from Scott to put into evidence either.
Rookie
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9/23/2016  2:07 PM
nixluva wrote:It looks to me like the Black Cop threw down some rubber gloves that were handed to him by another cop. It's hard to make out but that's what it looks like to me. Black rubber gloves. I don't see a gun tho. Unless they had already picked up the gun you don't see it in the video on the ground near the body. You don't see any of the cops handling a gun they took from Scott to put into evidence either.

I live in NC. Everyone has a gun. Not commenting on what happened here, just passing along information that most folks here have a loaded firearm in their car

fishmike
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9/23/2016  2:24 PM
Rookie wrote:
nixluva wrote:It looks to me like the Black Cop threw down some rubber gloves that were handed to him by another cop. It's hard to make out but that's what it looks like to me. Black rubber gloves. I don't see a gun tho. Unless they had already picked up the gun you don't see it in the video on the ground near the body. You don't see any of the cops handling a gun they took from Scott to put into evidence either.

I live in NC. Everyone has a gun. Not commenting on what happened here, just passing along information that most folks here have a loaded firearm in their car

Dude... I spend a lot of time in NC, Wilmington, Huntersville, Raleigh, beach areas like Emerald Isle, Oak Isle... I have a lot of family and friends down there. There are a LOT more guns there than the NYC metro area but MOST people most certainly DO NOT have a loaded gun in the their car. I don't know anyone who does. What is "MOST?" Do elaborate... my experience is very different
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Nalod
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9/23/2016  2:49 PM
Im in NC and seemingly all my "Red" friends have a gun. They are responsible people. I don't, and I don't want one. Fear mongering is very popular.
There are times I do want a hand gun but it would be locked up and very little use in most situations. I think I'd just have two bullets so I can do my self in some Zombie/biological/apocalyptic thing.

Guns are everywhere. I think there will be many situations where gun owners will be shot by police if they walk into a situation where they don't know who is the good guy is. Say there is a robbery and some guy with a carry conceal "saves the day" and shoots a robber, police come in hot an heavy and the good guy has his gun out thinking "Hey guys, so glad I could help" but the cop is like "YOu got a gun, there is a body, and IM freaking torqued!!!!".

Don't know why police could not just back off and let the wife deal with husband. If she is confident he won't shoot, then let her deal with him. Why did the cops come there anyway?

Anger sells, don't buy!
fishmike
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9/23/2016  2:56 PM
Nalod wrote:Im in NC and seemingly all my "Red" friends have a gun. They are responsible people. I don't, and I don't want one. Fear mongering is very popular.
There are times I do want a hand gun but it would be locked up and very little use in most situations. I think I'd just have two bullets so I can do my self in some Zombie/biological/apocalyptic thing.

Guns are everywhere. I think there will be many situations where gun owners will be shot by police if they walk into a situation where they don't know who is the good guy is. Say there is a robbery and some guy with a carry conceal "saves the day" and shoots a robber, police come in hot an heavy and the good guy has his gun out thinking "Hey guys, so glad I could help" but the cop is like "YOu got a gun, there is a body, and IM freaking torqued!!!!".

Don't know why police could not just back off and let the wife deal with husband. If she is confident he won't shoot, then let her deal with him. Why did the cops come there anyway?

I have a lot of friends with firearms also, and I shoot regularly with them. Do any of them carry a loaded firearm in their car? none. Nalod do you any of the gun owners you know carry locked and loaded?

Point wasn't who has them, point was having them loaded in the car.

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MaTT4281
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9/23/2016  3:09 PM
Nalod wrote:Im in NC and seemingly all my "Red" friends have a gun. They are responsible people. I don't, and I don't want one. Fear mongering is very popular.
There are times I do want a hand gun but it would be locked up and very little use in most situations. I think I'd just have two bullets so I can do my self in some Zombie/biological/apocalyptic thing.

Guns are everywhere. I think there will be many situations where gun owners will be shot by police if they walk into a situation where they don't know who is the good guy is. Say there is a robbery and some guy with a carry conceal "saves the day" and shoots a robber, police come in hot an heavy and the good guy has his gun out thinking "Hey guys, so glad I could help" but the cop is like "YOu got a gun, there is a body, and IM freaking torqued!!!!".

Don't know why police could not just back off and let the wife deal with husband. If she is confident he won't shoot, then let her deal with him. Why did the cops come there anyway?

I'm still waiting on one of those "hero with a gun saves the day" stories to pop up in the news.

"I must break you." - Kristaps Porzingis to Rocky Balboa
Nalod
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9/23/2016  3:09 PM
fishmike wrote:
Nalod wrote:Im in NC and seemingly all my "Red" friends have a gun. They are responsible people. I don't, and I don't want one. Fear mongering is very popular.
There are times I do want a hand gun but it would be locked up and very little use in most situations. I think I'd just have two bullets so I can do my self in some Zombie/biological/apocalyptic thing.

Guns are everywhere. I think there will be many situations where gun owners will be shot by police if they walk into a situation where they don't know who is the good guy is. Say there is a robbery and some guy with a carry conceal "saves the day" and shoots a robber, police come in hot an heavy and the good guy has his gun out thinking "Hey guys, so glad I could help" but the cop is like "YOu got a gun, there is a body, and IM freaking torqued!!!!".

Don't know why police could not just back off and let the wife deal with husband. If she is confident he won't shoot, then let her deal with him. Why did the cops come there anyway?

I have a lot of friends with firearms also, and I shoot regularly with them. Do any of them carry a loaded firearm in their car? none. Nalod do you any of the gun owners you know carry locked and loaded?

Point wasn't who has them, point was having them loaded in the car.

I don't know what they do with it. I have a colleague who has a carry and conceal permit but we are in a building with "no firearms" signs. My take is he would not tell me even if I asked. ANd I Won't.
ONce these mutherphuchers get a gun they start to get all defensive about Democrats taking them, which they don't. I had a family member killed by a dude who had a restraining order and the sheriff's dept never came to take his registered arms. They were supposed to.

I tell people this all the time because they have to understand that I am emotional over this and most of them had never been exposed or felt what we went thru. Thus, I am for control and logic which the NRA won't even yield to. I want guns taxed like cars, boats, etc because more guns, more need for police.

I freaking laugh when gun advocates get shot buy their kids, but I get very sad for the children who are not burdened with what they did. Very selfish act by the parents!!!

Anger sells, don't buy!
Nalod
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9/23/2016  3:12 PM
MaTT4281 wrote:
Nalod wrote:Im in NC and seemingly all my "Red" friends have a gun. They are responsible people. I don't, and I don't want one. Fear mongering is very popular.
There are times I do want a hand gun but it would be locked up and very little use in most situations. I think I'd just have two bullets so I can do my self in some Zombie/biological/apocalyptic thing.

Guns are everywhere. I think there will be many situations where gun owners will be shot by police if they walk into a situation where they don't know who is the good guy is. Say there is a robbery and some guy with a carry conceal "saves the day" and shoots a robber, police come in hot an heavy and the good guy has his gun out thinking "Hey guys, so glad I could help" but the cop is like "YOu got a gun, there is a body, and IM freaking torqued!!!!".

Don't know why police could not just back off and let the wife deal with husband. If she is confident he won't shoot, then let her deal with him. Why did the cops come there anyway?

I'm still waiting on one of those "hero with a gun saves the day" stories to pop up in the news.

My parents went to the movies and some arsehole was arguing with the manager about his rights to carry a gun into the theatre. Its clearly posted "No guns allowed".

Anger sells, don't buy!
Rookie
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9/23/2016  3:24 PM
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
nixluva wrote:It looks to me like the Black Cop threw down some rubber gloves that were handed to him by another cop. It's hard to make out but that's what it looks like to me. Black rubber gloves. I don't see a gun tho. Unless they had already picked up the gun you don't see it in the video on the ground near the body. You don't see any of the cops handling a gun they took from Scott to put into evidence either.

I live in NC. Everyone has a gun. Not commenting on what happened here, just passing along information that most folks here have a loaded firearm in their car

Dude... I spend a lot of time in NC, Wilmington, Huntersville, Raleigh, beach areas like Emerald Isle, Oak Isle... I have a lot of family and friends down there. There are a LOT more guns there than the NYC metro area but MOST people most certainly DO NOT have a loaded gun in the their car. I don't know anyone who does. What is "MOST?" Do elaborate... my experience is very different

Yes, I shouldn't have generalized like that. Let me be a little less dramatic and a little more factual. NC has very liberal gun laws. The application process for a legal firearm purchase permit is not complicated. Proof of residence and no criminal record or mental health issues. Because NC is an open carry state, with a purchase permit you can take a loaded firearm anywhere as long as it is not concealed. A concealed hand gun permit takes a little longer and you are required to take a safety coarse, pass a written test on state gun laws and hit a percentage of targets on a range as well as demonstrate some basic gun handling skills.

So, like you said, there are a lot more guns down here. Anyone in a good mental state that has a legal firearm is not going to do anything to make a police officer or sheriff get twitchy if they are stopped. That's where I think it can get a little complicated. If someone has an illegal firearm or is acting mentally unbalanced and refusing to respond to a simple command such as 'get out of the car' I can see where it can spook the officers responding especially if he is in a car and not keeping his hands in sight at all times. From there it is all judgement and bad things can happen in a split second.

I think most people would respond to the officers simple instructions. In the isolated examples where someone is not responding and acting unbalanced it is going to elevate the officers response to a threatening situation, especially in a state where guns are more common. Most folks with military or police training will carry at all times, and we have a lot here in my area. That would likely mean, one small concealable weapon and possibly a larger hand gun with a longer barrel and range. We also have many gun enthusiasts.

Pretty much, anyone who wants to, can own and carry a gun. That is what I should have said to begin with. As an officer on a routine stop that would always need to be a possibilty to consider especially if someone is acting unstable and is refusing to exit a car where a gun can be easily within reach.

nixluva
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9/23/2016  3:32 PM
There are guys who walk around in our local Walmart with their guns strapped to their hip. It's freakin annoying to me. This ain't the frontier. Heck even in the so called Wild West they had Gun Control Laws.

Back then, Tombstone had far stricter gun control than it does today. In fact, the American West's most infamous gun battle erupted when the marshal tried to enforce a local ordinance that barred carrying firearms in public. A judge had fined one of the victims $25 earlier that day for packing a pistol.

"You could wear your gun into town, but you had to check it at the sheriff's office or the Grand Hotel, and you couldn't pick it up again until you were leaving town," said Bob Boze Bell, executive editor of True West Magazine, which celebrates the Old West. "It was an effort to control the violence."

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/23/nation/la-na-tombstone-20110123
MaTT4281
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9/23/2016  4:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/23/2016  4:11 PM
nixluva wrote:There are guys who walk around in our local Walmart with their guns strapped to their hip. It's freakin annoying to me. This ain't the frontier. Heck even in the so called Wild West they had Gun Control Laws.

Back then, Tombstone had far stricter gun control than it does today. In fact, the American West's most infamous gun battle erupted when the marshal tried to enforce a local ordinance that barred carrying firearms in public. A judge had fined one of the victims $25 earlier that day for packing a pistol.

"You could wear your gun into town, but you had to check it at the sheriff's office or the Grand Hotel, and you couldn't pick it up again until you were leaving town," said Bob Boze Bell, executive editor of True West Magazine, which celebrates the Old West. "It was an effort to control the violence."

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/23/nation/la-na-tombstone-20110123

Wow, history lesson for the day!

It's always the same back and forth on gun control. "If you take away guns from the good guys, the bad guys will still find a way to get them. Then we're left defenseless."

There's still supposed to be good guys with guns. That's supposed to be the police.
If the argument is now that police are too afraid of who may or may not have a gun, so much that it escalates the situation this fast, then the conversation needs to come back full circle.

The issues with these shootings obviously go deeper than that, but could regulation help prevent an officer walking on egg shells from pulling the trigger so quickly? Could it hurt?

"I must break you." - Kristaps Porzingis to Rocky Balboa
nixluva
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9/23/2016  4:25 PM
The thing that bothers me about this whole thing is that it doesn't seem like there was an effort to de-escalate the situation. What was the reason why they pulled guns on this man in the 1st place? Apparently Mr. Scott was just minding his business waiting for his kid to be dropped off. Why were plain clothed Cops there to begin with and how did they end up focusing on him just sitting in his car? There are just too many details missing at this point. The police need to give a clear picture of how this all started so it's not so unclear.
mreinman
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9/23/2016  6:25 PM
nixluva wrote:here is the video
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/exclusive-video-moments-leading-up-to-charlotte-shooting-of-keith-scott-771901507743

that is heart wrenching but I could not tell anything from that video, could you see him?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nixluva
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9/23/2016  6:35 PM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:here is the video
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/exclusive-video-moments-leading-up-to-charlotte-shooting-of-keith-scott-771901507743

that is heart wrenching but I could not tell anything from that video, could you see him?


No it really doesn't answer the most pressing questions. It does indicate the fact that the police didn't use the best protocol in how they dealt with the situation. Proper tactics when dealing with an individual with a gun is not to roll right up to them and expose yourself. You want distance and cover so you have options. They were so close that once he got out the car there was an immediate danger. They also could've tried to de-escalate and see if they could get him to talk to his wife. It's a tough situation but the man didn't seem like he was in his right mind. His wife said he had Traumatic Brain Injury and had just taken medication which might have had an impact on his judgment. What guy is gonna confront police when surrounded when all he was doing is waiting to pick up his kids?
JesseDark
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9/23/2016  8:19 PM
nixluva wrote:The thing that bothers me about this whole thing is that it doesn't seem like there was an effort to de-escalate the situation. What was the reason why they pulled guns on this man in the 1st place? Apparently Mr. Scott was just minding his business waiting for his kid to be dropped off. Why were plain clothed Cops there to begin with and how did they end up focusing on him just sitting in his car? There are just too many details missing at this point. The police need to give a clear picture of how this all started so it's not so unclear.

+1
You hear the wife screaming in the video that he has tbi (tramitc brain injury) and it's like the cops are oblivious to her pleas. It reminds of when dog is about to attack and its ears are pinned back and eyes are locked on its target.
There is no reason why that man should not be alive today.

Bring back dee-fense
reub
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9/23/2016  10:08 PM
The cops yelled about 10 times to put down the gun. Were they hallucinating? I also believe that Mr. Scott was convicted for shooting at police in 2005.

http://christiantimesnewspaper.com/report-keith-lamont-scott-shot-handgun-at-texas-officers-in-2005/

nixluva
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9/23/2016  10:48 PM
reub wrote:The cops yelled about 10 times to put down the gun. Were they hallucinating? I also believe that Mr. Scott was convicted for shooting at police in 2005.

http://christiantimesnewspaper.com/report-keith-lamont-scott-shot-handgun-at-texas-officers-in-2005/


I still have issues with this entire incident. It seems his troubles with the law were a decade ago and that he hasn't been in trouble like that recently.

I don't think he was mentally right. He could've been a bit off due to the Brain Injury and Medication. Do you realize that it would make no sense for him to basically get out of his car with a gun surrounded by police with their guns drawn? That's not a normal or logical thing to do with your wife calling out to you.

I think the Police should've backed off and tried to have his wife talk him down. It doesn't always have to escalate into a shootout. What if he wasn't hit but a stray bullet hit an innocent person in the neighborhood? The Police were entirely too close to him and that made it much more likely that the police would have to resort to shooting if they felt in danger.

OT: Family of Charlotte Shooting Victim Releases Video!

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