Knicks

This is a good time to discuss the 2017 draft and clarify a few things. There's already plenty of hype surrounding this incoming freshman class, and all of it's deserved. College basketball will be twice as fun this year. But looking at this through my draft nerd eyes, it's still too early to say how many franchise-altering players there are in this class. Most of the best prospects are point guards—​Markelle Fultz (Washington), Dennis Smith (NC State), Frank Ntilikina (France), De'Aaron Fox (Kentucky), Lonzo Ball (UCLA)—and while great point guards are valuable, they won't immediately carry a team the way, say, Karl Towns might.

Beyond the guards, we also have a rich crop of intriguing wings with mysterious ceilings—Jayson Tatum (Duke), Josh Jackson (Kansas), Jonathan Isaac (Florida State), Miles Bridges (Michigan State), and Terrance Ferguson (Australia). Finally, there are big men like Harry Giles (Duke), Marques Bolden (also Duke), and Jarrett Allen (Texas).

All of these players are exciting draft prospects—Miles Bridges isn't quite as elite, but I need you to watch him dunk on his own mother—it's just important to manage expectations. For now, this class looks great because of it's full of potential All-Stars, not necessarily potential cornerstones. That's not a criticism; it's a reminder of how rare it is to find real franchise stars even in the best drafts.

And the Knicks already did that. Porzingis has everything. He's got the intangibles, he can protect the rim and score from the perimeter, he played his ass off despite being 30 pounds lighter than everyone he faced last year, and he's barely scratching the surface. He's someone to build around for the next decade.

This is why Knicks fans should be rooting for a slow start that turns into a midseason Melo trade and three months of losing. Somehow, this team already nailed the hardest part of tanking. Now they just need more help, and preferably help that's under the age of 30. Even if you're not sure about the superstars in this draft—Giles could be elite if healthy, Fultz looks incredible— there are potential All-Stars dotting the board that would be perfect running mates with Porzingis. So, forget the playoffs. Be smart, Knicks. Derrick Rose is ready to take 25 shots-a-game. Hornacek's defense could give up 110 points-a-night. They're warming the tanks up in Latvia. Let's make this happen.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/09/20/knicks-lakers-bulls-sixers-jimmy-butler-carmelo-anthony-nba-tanking

#1: Andrew Sharp

Alice_Cassin_Andrew_Sharp1
clothes by andrew sharp’s dad’s closet
WER: 1.5

Worst Offense: “Take Your Pick.”

Explication: The alpha and the omega. The beginning and the end. The sports writing of Andrew Sharp knows no equal in its depravity. Whether he’s entirely misreading the anti-LeBron sentiment or writing his consciously terrible #HOTSPORTSTAKES with very unconscious ease, all of Sharp’s articles inspire the same reaction: who the **** is this guy related to at Disney? A Harvard statistician literally calculated the ****tiness of his writing. Since my words frankly cannot do justice to his, I’ll let the worst writer at Grantland speak for himself. To quote, “Have a great day and #FREE #THE #CATS.”

nixluva wrote:This is the kind of thing that makes real Knicks fans go Ape Nuts. I can understand the idea of hoping you can draft the next stud, but there's no way this team is going to actually lose enough to guarantee they land a top kid in next draft. How do we get the players to buy into not trying to win and how do we move Melo when he's got a No Trade? Also didn't like the joke about Hornacek's D not being good. He actually believes in the Thibs defensive philosophy. He's not MDA when it comes to defense.

Knicks

This is a good time to discuss the 2017 draft and clarify a few things. There's already plenty of hype surrounding this incoming freshman class, and all of it's deserved. College basketball will be twice as fun this year. But looking at this through my draft nerd eyes, it's still too early to say how many franchise-altering players there are in this class. Most of the best prospects are point guards—​Markelle Fultz (Washington), Dennis Smith (NC State), Frank Ntilikina (France), De'Aaron Fox (Kentucky), Lonzo Ball (UCLA)—and while great point guards are valuable, they won't immediately carry a team the way, say, Karl Towns might.

Beyond the guards, we also have a rich crop of intriguing wings with mysterious ceilings—Jayson Tatum (Duke), Josh Jackson (Kansas), Jonathan Isaac (Florida State), Miles Bridges (Michigan State), and Terrance Ferguson (Australia). Finally, there are big men like Harry Giles (Duke), Marques Bolden (also Duke), and Jarrett Allen (Texas).

All of these players are exciting draft prospects—Miles Bridges isn't quite as elite, but I need you to watch him dunk on his own mother—it's just important to manage expectations. For now, this class looks great because of it's full of potential All-Stars, not necessarily potential cornerstones. That's not a criticism; it's a reminder of how rare it is to find real franchise stars even in the best drafts.

And the Knicks already did that. Porzingis has everything. He's got the intangibles, he can protect the rim and score from the perimeter, he played his ass off despite being 30 pounds lighter than everyone he faced last year, and he's barely scratching the surface. He's someone to build around for the next decade.

This is why Knicks fans should be rooting for a slow start that turns into a midseason Melo trade and three months of losing. Somehow, this team already nailed the hardest part of tanking. Now they just need more help, and preferably help that's under the age of 30. Even if you're not sure about the superstars in this draft—Giles could be elite if healthy, Fultz looks incredible— there are potential All-Stars dotting the board that would be perfect running mates with Porzingis. So, forget the playoffs. Be smart, Knicks. Derrick Rose is ready to take 25 shots-a-game. Hornacek's defense could give up 110 points-a-night. They're warming the tanks up in Latvia. Let's make this happen.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/09/20/knicks-lakers-bulls-sixers-jimmy-butler-carmelo-anthony-nba-tanking

it's a fact that the knicks are nowhere near contender status this upcoming season.
it's a fact that porzingis is the future of the franchise.
it's a fact that derrick rose is on a one-year contract and embroiled in a very ugly civil suit.
it's a fact that carmelo anthony will turn 33 shortly after the regular season ends.
it's my opinion that the knicks are at cross purposes in terms of the alleged win-now mandate with melo and the future with kp6 after melo.

put these facts together and there is every justification to tank in order to garner more youth and talent in the backcourt. the knicks, barring major injuries to rose, noah, jennings or god forbid kp6, are going to be around 38-43 wins-- something that vegas oddsmakers and i agree on. they are not going to tank overtly, but there's good reason for doing so. who knows-- if melo doesn't like what's happening by the trade deadline he may request a trade, if indeed he is tradable. no shame in chasing a ring at this point in his career.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is the kind of thing that makes real Knicks fans go Ape Nuts. I can understand the idea of hoping you can draft the next stud, but there's no way this team is going to actually lose enough to guarantee they land a top kid in next draft. How do we get the players to buy into not trying to win and how do we move Melo when he's got a No Trade? Also didn't like the joke about Hornacek's D not being good. He actually believes in the Thibs defensive philosophy. He's not MDA when it comes to defense.

Knicks

This is a good time to discuss the 2017 draft and clarify a few things. There's already plenty of hype surrounding this incoming freshman class, and all of it's deserved. College basketball will be twice as fun this year. But looking at this through my draft nerd eyes, it's still too early to say how many franchise-altering players there are in this class. Most of the best prospects are point guards—​Markelle Fultz (Washington), Dennis Smith (NC State), Frank Ntilikina (France), De'Aaron Fox (Kentucky), Lonzo Ball (UCLA)—and while great point guards are valuable, they won't immediately carry a team the way, say, Karl Towns might.

Beyond the guards, we also have a rich crop of intriguing wings with mysterious ceilings—Jayson Tatum (Duke), Josh Jackson (Kansas), Jonathan Isaac (Florida State), Miles Bridges (Michigan State), and Terrance Ferguson (Australia). Finally, there are big men like Harry Giles (Duke), Marques Bolden (also Duke), and Jarrett Allen (Texas).

All of these players are exciting draft prospects—Miles Bridges isn't quite as elite, but I need you to watch him dunk on his own mother—it's just important to manage expectations. For now, this class looks great because of it's full of potential All-Stars, not necessarily potential cornerstones. That's not a criticism; it's a reminder of how rare it is to find real franchise stars even in the best drafts.

And the Knicks already did that. Porzingis has everything. He's got the intangibles, he can protect the rim and score from the perimeter, he played his ass off despite being 30 pounds lighter than everyone he faced last year, and he's barely scratching the surface. He's someone to build around for the next decade.

This is why Knicks fans should be rooting for a slow start that turns into a midseason Melo trade and three months of losing. Somehow, this team already nailed the hardest part of tanking. Now they just need more help, and preferably help that's under the age of 30. Even if you're not sure about the superstars in this draft—Giles could be elite if healthy, Fultz looks incredible— there are potential All-Stars dotting the board that would be perfect running mates with Porzingis. So, forget the playoffs. Be smart, Knicks. Derrick Rose is ready to take 25 shots-a-game. Hornacek's defense could give up 110 points-a-night. They're warming the tanks up in Latvia. Let's make this happen.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/09/20/knicks-lakers-bulls-sixers-jimmy-butler-carmelo-anthony-nba-tanking

it's a fact that the knicks are nowhere near contender status this upcoming season.
it's a fact that porzingis is the future of the franchise.
it's a fact that derrick rose is on a one-year contract and embroiled in a very ugly civil suit.
it's a fact that carmelo anthony will turn 33 shortly after the regular season ends.
it's my opinion that the knicks are at cross purposes in terms of the alleged win-now mandate with melo and the future with kp6 after melo.

put these facts together and there is every justification to tank in order to garner more youth and talent in the backcourt. the knicks, barring major injuries to rose, noah, jennings or god forbid kp6, are going to be around 38-43 wins-- something that vegas oddsmakers and i agree on. they are not going to tank overtly, but there's good reason for doing so. who knows-- if melo doesn't like what's happening by the trade deadline he may request a trade, if indeed he is tradable. no shame in chasing a ring at this point in his career.

its a fact that you are talking to a wall.

yes. but it needed to be said anyway.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is the kind of thing that makes real Knicks fans go Ape Nuts. I can understand the idea of hoping you can draft the next stud, but there's no way this team is going to actually lose enough to guarantee they land a top kid in next draft. How do we get the players to buy into not trying to win and how do we move Melo when he's got a No Trade? Also didn't like the joke about Hornacek's D not being good. He actually believes in the Thibs defensive philosophy. He's not MDA when it comes to defense.

Knicks

This is a good time to discuss the 2017 draft and clarify a few things. There's already plenty of hype surrounding this incoming freshman class, and all of it's deserved. College basketball will be twice as fun this year. But looking at this through my draft nerd eyes, it's still too early to say how many franchise-altering players there are in this class. Most of the best prospects are point guards—​Markelle Fultz (Washington), Dennis Smith (NC State), Frank Ntilikina (France), De'Aaron Fox (Kentucky), Lonzo Ball (UCLA)—and while great point guards are valuable, they won't immediately carry a team the way, say, Karl Towns might.

Beyond the guards, we also have a rich crop of intriguing wings with mysterious ceilings—Jayson Tatum (Duke), Josh Jackson (Kansas), Jonathan Isaac (Florida State), Miles Bridges (Michigan State), and Terrance Ferguson (Australia). Finally, there are big men like Harry Giles (Duke), Marques Bolden (also Duke), and Jarrett Allen (Texas).

All of these players are exciting draft prospects—Miles Bridges isn't quite as elite, but I need you to watch him dunk on his own mother—it's just important to manage expectations. For now, this class looks great because of it's full of potential All-Stars, not necessarily potential cornerstones. That's not a criticism; it's a reminder of how rare it is to find real franchise stars even in the best drafts.

And the Knicks already did that. Porzingis has everything. He's got the intangibles, he can protect the rim and score from the perimeter, he played his ass off despite being 30 pounds lighter than everyone he faced last year, and he's barely scratching the surface. He's someone to build around for the next decade.

This is why Knicks fans should be rooting for a slow start that turns into a midseason Melo trade and three months of losing. Somehow, this team already nailed the hardest part of tanking. Now they just need more help, and preferably help that's under the age of 30. Even if you're not sure about the superstars in this draft—Giles could be elite if healthy, Fultz looks incredible— there are potential All-Stars dotting the board that would be perfect running mates with Porzingis. So, forget the playoffs. Be smart, Knicks. Derrick Rose is ready to take 25 shots-a-game. Hornacek's defense could give up 110 points-a-night. They're warming the tanks up in Latvia. Let's make this happen.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/09/20/knicks-lakers-bulls-sixers-jimmy-butler-carmelo-anthony-nba-tanking

it's a fact that the knicks are nowhere near contender status this upcoming season.
it's a fact that porzingis is the future of the franchise.
it's a fact that derrick rose is on a one-year contract and embroiled in a very ugly civil suit.
it's a fact that carmelo anthony will turn 33 shortly after the regular season ends.
it's my opinion that the knicks are at cross purposes in terms of the alleged win-now mandate with melo and the future with kp6 after melo.

put these facts together and there is every justification to tank in order to garner more youth and talent in the backcourt. the knicks, barring major injuries to rose, noah, jennings or god forbid kp6, are going to be around 38-43 wins-- something that vegas oddsmakers and i agree on. they are not going to tank overtly, but there's good reason for doing so. who knows-- if melo doesn't like what's happening by the trade deadline he may request a trade, if indeed he is tradable. no shame in chasing a ring at this point in his career.

How is it a FACT that the Knicks are nowhere near a contender? Won't they have to play out the season to know that for sure?

KP is actually one of the very reasons to be optimistic about this coming season.

Why does the length of Rose's contract mean something negative to you? What does his civil suit have to do with his play on the court this year? You are making leaps of negativity from mundane facts.

Melo is getting older as all players will, but that doesn't mean he can't still be an effective player. Why are you harping on his age as if no one has ever won at his age. You realize that Lebron is basically the same age? Other NBA players have won at his age. So what's your point really?

KP is so young that these early years don't mean the team won't be able to get new talent down the line to play with him. Right now he's surrounded by vets with lots of experience and that can only help KP's development.

Please stop bringing up injury. Of course injury is always an issue for any team. That's not the most important factor to focus on with this team tho. It's a factor but not the only factor. We should all be praying for great health this year cuz if they are fully healthy they can really be in the mix in the East.

You really think that Melo is gonna ask for a trade at this point? You would have to have MASSIVE failure for that kind of change of heart IMO.

IMO Tanking is out of the question. This team may struggle but I think pride will keep them from falling so far that they have to think about tanking.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is the kind of thing that makes real Knicks fans go Ape Nuts. I can understand the idea of hoping you can draft the next stud, but there's no way this team is going to actually lose enough to guarantee they land a top kid in next draft. How do we get the players to buy into not trying to win and how do we move Melo when he's got a No Trade? Also didn't like the joke about Hornacek's D not being good. He actually believes in the Thibs defensive philosophy. He's not MDA when it comes to defense.

Knicks

This is a good time to discuss the 2017 draft and clarify a few things. There's already plenty of hype surrounding this incoming freshman class, and all of it's deserved. College basketball will be twice as fun this year. But looking at this through my draft nerd eyes, it's still too early to say how many franchise-altering players there are in this class. Most of the best prospects are point guards—​Markelle Fultz (Washington), Dennis Smith (NC State), Frank Ntilikina (France), De'Aaron Fox (Kentucky), Lonzo Ball (UCLA)—and while great point guards are valuable, they won't immediately carry a team the way, say, Karl Towns might.

Beyond the guards, we also have a rich crop of intriguing wings with mysterious ceilings—Jayson Tatum (Duke), Josh Jackson (Kansas), Jonathan Isaac (Florida State), Miles Bridges (Michigan State), and Terrance Ferguson (Australia). Finally, there are big men like Harry Giles (Duke), Marques Bolden (also Duke), and Jarrett Allen (Texas).

All of these players are exciting draft prospects—Miles Bridges isn't quite as elite, but I need you to watch him dunk on his own mother—it's just important to manage expectations. For now, this class looks great because of it's full of potential All-Stars, not necessarily potential cornerstones. That's not a criticism; it's a reminder of how rare it is to find real franchise stars even in the best drafts.

And the Knicks already did that. Porzingis has everything. He's got the intangibles, he can protect the rim and score from the perimeter, he played his ass off despite being 30 pounds lighter than everyone he faced last year, and he's barely scratching the surface. He's someone to build around for the next decade.

This is why Knicks fans should be rooting for a slow start that turns into a midseason Melo trade and three months of losing. Somehow, this team already nailed the hardest part of tanking. Now they just need more help, and preferably help that's under the age of 30. Even if you're not sure about the superstars in this draft—Giles could be elite if healthy, Fultz looks incredible— there are potential All-Stars dotting the board that would be perfect running mates with Porzingis. So, forget the playoffs. Be smart, Knicks. Derrick Rose is ready to take 25 shots-a-game. Hornacek's defense could give up 110 points-a-night. They're warming the tanks up in Latvia. Let's make this happen.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/09/20/knicks-lakers-bulls-sixers-jimmy-butler-carmelo-anthony-nba-tanking

it's a fact that the knicks are nowhere near contender status this upcoming season.
it's a fact that porzingis is the future of the franchise.
it's a fact that derrick rose is on a one-year contract and embroiled in a very ugly civil suit.
it's a fact that carmelo anthony will turn 33 shortly after the regular season ends.
it's my opinion that the knicks are at cross purposes in terms of the alleged win-now mandate with melo and the future with kp6 after melo.

put these facts together and there is every justification to tank in order to garner more youth and talent in the backcourt. the knicks, barring major injuries to rose, noah, jennings or god forbid kp6, are going to be around 38-43 wins-- something that vegas oddsmakers and i agree on. they are not going to tank overtly, but there's good reason for doing so. who knows-- if melo doesn't like what's happening by the trade deadline he may request a trade, if indeed he is tradable. no shame in chasing a ring at this point in his career.

How is it a FACT that the Knicks are nowhere near a contender? Won't they have to play out the season to know that for sure?

KP is actually one of the very reasons to be optimistic about this coming season.

Why does the length of Rose's contract mean something negative to you? What does his civil suit have to do with his play on the court this year? You are making leaps of negativity from mundane facts.

Melo is getting older as all players will, but that doesn't mean he can't still be an effective player. Why are you harping on his age as if no one has ever won at his age. You realize that Lebron is basically the same age? Other NBA players have won at his age. So what's your point really?

KP is so young that these early years don't mean the team won't be able to get new talent down the line to play with him. Right now he's surrounded by vets with lots of experience and that can only help KP's development.

Please stop bringing up injury. Of course injury is always an issue for any team. That's not the most important factor to focus on with this team tho. It's a factor but not the only factor. We should all be praying for great health this year cuz if they are fully healthy they can really be in the mix in the East.

You really think that Melo is gonna ask for a trade at this point? You would have to have MASSIVE failure for that kind of change of heart IMO.

IMO Tanking is out of the question. This team may struggle but I think pride will keep them from falling so far that they have to think about tanking.

you either don't understand or wish to acknowledge the mathematics behind the odds. the oddsmakers are de facto mathematicians, and base their oddsmaking/predictions on statistical history.

what you're advocating is a dream-case scenario where the knicks defy or beat the odds. you are perfectly entitled to your fantasy but there is no getting around the facts upon which the odds are based.

that said, based on the odds of winning a title, the knicks are clumped together in 8th place with 5 other teams, at 80:1. so they are being rated somewhere between 13th-likeliest to as high as 8th-likeliest. sadly, as we all know, it's really only the top 5-6 teams that are actual contenders in any given year. anyone below that are not within smelling distance. this year the true contenders are:

golden state
cleveland
spurs
clippers
celtics
thunder

has it occurred to you that the longer rose allows his ugly civil suit to drag on, that the oddsmakers will make the knicks' odds longer than they are now? something to chew on.

The Civil Suit is not really a valid issue IMO. I think the lawyers will work something out. A trial is not in either party's best interests.

but that's not the case. phil has definitely improved the team this offseason so I don't see the point in tanking now

Knixkik wrote:

jrodmc wrote:This sounds amazingly alot like a lovechild rant from Hinkie/ChuckyBooBoo:

This is why Knicks fans should be rooting for a slow start that turns into a midseason Melo trade and three months of losing. Somehow, this team already nailed the hardest part of tanking. Now they just need more help, and preferably help that's under the age of 30. Even if you're not sure about the superstars in this draft—Giles could be elite if healthy, Fultz looks incredible— there are potential All-Stars dotting the board that would be perfect running mates with Porzingis. So, forget the playoffs. Be smart, Knicks. Derrick Rose is ready to take 25 shots-a-game. Hornacek's defense could give up 110 points-a-night. They're warming the tanks up in Latvia. Let's make this happen.

So the Knicks, not the Sixers have nailed tanking. And we need more yoots. Lot's more yoots. Because KP6 want's nothing more than to lose, lose, lose. And a lineup with Noah and Porzingis are going to give up 110 points a night. Got ya.

When is this **** ever going to end? When the Sixers franchise decides to become the new NBDL team for Golden State?

This is the part i am glad you mention that everyone who wants to tank forgets about. Surrounding a young player with veterans who know how to win and giving yourself a chance to play in meaningful games (playoffs and/or late-season games to compete for playoffs) is the most important thing for a young player who you want to give the keys to the franchise. Not tank, tank, and more tank for a chance at some decent players along the same career timeline. You can be resourceful to add supporting players, draft well in the middle of the first round, and leave no stone unturned. Plus, trying to win is a lot more fun than trying to lose, at least for true fans. Good franchises (like the Spurs) do not need to tank to find good players in the draft, in free agency, and even those undrafted or overseas.

It's a fact that no one, outside of our favorite civil court suit defendant, is picking the Knicks to be instant contenders.
It's a fact that actual NBA analysts, who may just may more know more about the NBA than Vegas mathematicians, like JVG, Greg Anthony are picking the Knicks to make the playoffs.
It's a fact than anyone with anything approaching even a miniscule level of NBA IQ realizes that the Knicks back court and bench are vastly improved, younger, and not (at least in the case of the bench) a various collection of NBDL flotsam.
It's a fact that Phil invested a large sum to sign Noah, and this would not be consistent with the Hinkie model of franchise destruction.
It's a fact that we've been listening to the greatness of the tanking model regarding Philly for years, ever since they drafted MCW and then traded him away. It's a fact you can count their wins since without a calculator.
It's my opinion that what everyone was pining for during the early off-season, vastly improving the backcourt, has occurred. And without losing any further draft picks, either.

But please, keep ignoring the words No Trade Clause, and keep plying the
1) "it's best for my personal pariah who's now outlived all the hoops I wanted him to jump through, to go somewhere else for his own good. Really, I want Melo to have a chip"
2) I love KP so much it makes my gonads shrivel up and die to think he might have some level of success with my personal pariah.
3) I really only want to watch AAU basketball, because I firmly believe that, despite all the evidence to the contrary, veterans are not good for sheehit.

It never gets old, and it's great to know the bastions of negativity will always be there, serving a greater purpose for those of us who just love the Knicks more than our own fuhucking stupid opinions and idiotic fanboy versions of BB IQ, having never played, coached or even been a clerk in an NBA office.

Rock on, haters!

Knixkik wrote:

jrodmc wrote:This sounds amazingly alot like a lovechild rant from Hinkie/ChuckyBooBoo:

This is why Knicks fans should be rooting for a slow start that turns into a midseason Melo trade and three months of losing. Somehow, this team already nailed the hardest part of tanking. Now they just need more help, and preferably help that's under the age of 30. Even if you're not sure about the superstars in this draft—Giles could be elite if healthy, Fultz looks incredible— there are potential All-Stars dotting the board that would be perfect running mates with Porzingis. So, forget the playoffs. Be smart, Knicks. Derrick Rose is ready to take 25 shots-a-game. Hornacek's defense could give up 110 points-a-night. They're warming the tanks up in Latvia. Let's make this happen.

So the Knicks, not the Sixers have nailed tanking. And we need more yoots. Lot's more yoots. Because KP6 want's nothing more than to lose, lose, lose. And a lineup with Noah and Porzingis are going to give up 110 points a night. Got ya.

When is this **** ever going to end? When the Sixers franchise decides to become the new NBDL team for Golden State?

This is the part i am glad you mention that everyone who wants to tank forgets about. Surrounding a young player with veterans who know how to win and giving yourself a chance to play in meaningful games (playoffs and/or late-season games to compete for playoffs) is the most important thing for a young player who you want to give the keys to the franchise. Not tank, tank, and more tank for a chance at some decent players along the same career timeline. You can be resourceful to add supporting players, draft well in the middle of the first round, and leave no stone unturned. Plus, trying to win is a lot more fun than trying to lose, at least for true fans. Good franchises (like the Spurs) do not need to tank to find good players in the draft, in free agency, and even those undrafted or overseas.

what veterans on the knicks "know how to win?" is there a single player on the roster who has played in the finals? these knicks will try to win, but nonetheless are not contenders. in fact they are projected to be mediocre, even if healthy. what am i missing? how do you see them getting to the second round beyond 6 games, their high-water mark in the melo era? because if they don't-- the odds are against it-- then there is nothing wrong with the *philosophy* of tanking, especially it it garners a high first round pick for a point guard closer to kp6's age.

nixluva wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

jrodmc wrote:This sounds amazingly alot like a lovechild rant from Hinkie/ChuckyBooBoo:

This is why Knicks fans should be rooting for a slow start that turns into a midseason Melo trade and three months of losing. Somehow, this team already nailed the hardest part of tanking. Now they just need more help, and preferably help that's under the age of 30. Even if you're not sure about the superstars in this draft—Giles could be elite if healthy, Fultz looks incredible— there are potential All-Stars dotting the board that would be perfect running mates with Porzingis. So, forget the playoffs. Be smart, Knicks. Derrick Rose is ready to take 25 shots-a-game. Hornacek's defense could give up 110 points-a-night. They're warming the tanks up in Latvia. Let's make this happen.

So the Knicks, not the Sixers have nailed tanking. And we need more yoots. Lot's more yoots. Because KP6 want's nothing more than to lose, lose, lose. And a lineup with Noah and Porzingis are going to give up 110 points a night. Got ya.

When is this **** ever going to end? When the Sixers franchise decides to become the new NBDL team for Golden State?

This is the part i am glad you mention that everyone who wants to tank forgets about. Surrounding a young player with veterans who know how to win and giving yourself a chance to play in meaningful games (playoffs and/or late-season games to compete for playoffs) is the most important thing for a young player who you want to give the keys to the franchise. Not tank, tank, and more tank for a chance at some decent players along the same career timeline. You can be resourceful to add supporting players, draft well in the middle of the first round, and leave no stone unturned. Plus, trying to win is a lot more fun than trying to lose, at least for true fans. Good franchises (like the Spurs) do not need to tank to find good players in the draft, in free agency, and even those undrafted or overseas.

It's a fact that no one, outside of our favorite civil court suit defendant, is picking the Knicks to be instant contenders.
It's a fact that actual NBA analysts, who may just may more know more about the NBA than Vegas mathematicians, like JVG, Greg Anthony are picking the Knicks to make the playoffs.
It's a fact than anyone with anything approaching even a miniscule level of NBA IQ realizes that the Knicks back court and bench are vastly improved, younger, and not (at least in the case of the bench) a various collection of NBDL flotsam.
It's a fact that Phil invested a large sum to sign Noah, and this would not be consistent with the Hinkie model of franchise destruction.
It's a fact that we've been listening to the greatness of the tanking model regarding Philly for years, ever since they drafted MCW and then traded him away. It's a fact you can count their wins since without a calculator.
It's my opinion that what everyone was pining for during the early off-season, vastly improving the backcourt, has occurred. And without losing any further draft picks, either.

But please, keep ignoring the words No Trade Clause, and keep plying the
1) "it's best for my personal pariah who's now outlived all the hoops I wanted him to jump through, to go somewhere else for his own good. Really, I want Melo to have a chip"
2) I love KP so much it makes my gonads shrivel up and die to think he might have some level of success with my personal pariah.
3) I really only want to watch AAU basketball, because I firmly believe that, despite all the evidence to the contrary, veterans are not good for sheehit.

It never gets old, and it's great to know the bastions of negativity will always be there, serving a greater purpose for those of us who just love the Knicks more than our own fuhucking stupid opinions and idiotic fanboy versions of BB IQ, having never played, coached or even been a clerk in an NBA office.

Rock on, haters!

Makes me laugh! Have these guys even read anything KP has been saying. HE'S ECSTATIC to be playing with good players!!! I mean he isn't hoping to spend the next few years struggling to get wins and praying we strike gold again in the draft. If you have no choice but to lose because your team stinks and you have no way to improve, then you are fine with looking to the draft. The Knicks weren't in that situation. They already had Melo and he wasn't going anywhere, so the best thing to do is to improve the team around KP and help him to develop even faster.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

jrodmc wrote:This sounds amazingly alot like a lovechild rant from Hinkie/ChuckyBooBoo:

This is why Knicks fans should be rooting for a slow start that turns into a midseason Melo trade and three months of losing. Somehow, this team already nailed the hardest part of tanking. Now they just need more help, and preferably help that's under the age of 30. Even if you're not sure about the superstars in this draft—Giles could be elite if healthy, Fultz looks incredible— there are potential All-Stars dotting the board that would be perfect running mates with Porzingis. So, forget the playoffs. Be smart, Knicks. Derrick Rose is ready to take 25 shots-a-game. Hornacek's defense could give up 110 points-a-night. They're warming the tanks up in Latvia. Let's make this happen.

So the Knicks, not the Sixers have nailed tanking. And we need more yoots. Lot's more yoots. Because KP6 want's nothing more than to lose, lose, lose. And a lineup with Noah and Porzingis are going to give up 110 points a night. Got ya.

When is this **** ever going to end? When the Sixers franchise decides to become the new NBDL team for Golden State?

This is the part i am glad you mention that everyone who wants to tank forgets about. Surrounding a young player with veterans who know how to win and giving yourself a chance to play in meaningful games (playoffs and/or late-season games to compete for playoffs) is the most important thing for a young player who you want to give the keys to the franchise. Not tank, tank, and more tank for a chance at some decent players along the same career timeline. You can be resourceful to add supporting players, draft well in the middle of the first round, and leave no stone unturned. Plus, trying to win is a lot more fun than trying to lose, at least for true fans. Good franchises (like the Spurs) do not need to tank to find good players in the draft, in free agency, and even those undrafted or overseas.

It's a fact that no one, outside of our favorite civil court suit defendant, is picking the Knicks to be instant contenders.
It's a fact that actual NBA analysts, who may just may more know more about the NBA than Vegas mathematicians, like JVG, Greg Anthony are picking the Knicks to make the playoffs.
It's a fact than anyone with anything approaching even a miniscule level of NBA IQ realizes that the Knicks back court and bench are vastly improved, younger, and not (at least in the case of the bench) a various collection of NBDL flotsam.
It's a fact that Phil invested a large sum to sign Noah, and this would not be consistent with the Hinkie model of franchise destruction.
It's a fact that we've been listening to the greatness of the tanking model regarding Philly for years, ever since they drafted MCW and then traded him away. It's a fact you can count their wins since without a calculator.
It's my opinion that what everyone was pining for during the early off-season, vastly improving the backcourt, has occurred. And without losing any further draft picks, either.

But please, keep ignoring the words No Trade Clause, and keep plying the
1) "it's best for my personal pariah who's now outlived all the hoops I wanted him to jump through, to go somewhere else for his own good. Really, I want Melo to have a chip"
2) I love KP so much it makes my gonads shrivel up and die to think he might have some level of success with my personal pariah.
3) I really only want to watch AAU basketball, because I firmly believe that, despite all the evidence to the contrary, veterans are not good for sheehit.

It never gets old, and it's great to know the bastions of negativity will always be there, serving a greater purpose for those of us who just love the Knicks more than our own fuhucking stupid opinions and idiotic fanboy versions of BB IQ, having never played, coached or even been a clerk in an NBA office.

Rock on, haters!

Makes me laugh! Have these guys even read anything KP has been saying. HE'S ECSTATIC to be playing with good players!!! I mean he isn't hoping to spend the next few years struggling to get wins and praying we strike gold again in the draft. If you have no choice but to lose because your team stinks and you have no way to improve, then you are fine with looking to the draft. The Knicks weren't in that situation. They already had Melo and he wasn't going anywhere, so the best thing to do is to improve the team around KP and help him to develop even faster.

Well said. I get cautious optimism. But I think there is a lot to get excited about. I really like the young guys that the Knicks brought in. I think NDour, and Willy have a shot at being good rotation level pros. I also think Noah was a great addition. Rose's trainer and his teammates have been extremely positive about how he is doing. I guess I don't get pushing that all aside to rag on the team I root for.

Because you don't get that there can possible another side to you view as a fan. If you read most outsiders takes + vegas predictions you will see that there are many issues factored into their predictions that you seem to be pushing aside. They don't brush by things like injury risks just like insurance underwriters don't ignore these things, and just like actuaries etc ... The silly statement of "but any team can have injuries" is beyond stupid and completely missing the boat. There are many question marks here for a reason. Can they beat the odds? Of course they can ANYBODY CAN BEAT ANY ODDS.

On the flip side, JVG picked the knicks to win close to fifty games and raved about Phil Jackson (though dissed the triangle) so that is interesting, but JVG is funny like that, especially with Phil. He is always playing poker when he talks about the knicks.

I am picking them to beat the vegas predictions though I am an optimistic homer so my opinion is biased. I do think that the knicks will have many injuries as predicted though. Most of my optimism is Hornacek. I hope that he is not handcuffed. And, I think that Lee and Jennings were very solid pickups. I don't think Rose will be here more than this season and I definitely don't think the Noah (who I adore) is gonna live up to his contract. I think that Melo will be a solid this year but continue with nagging injuries that will mess with his jump shot. KP can go either way ... He can breakout or have a sophomore slump. He is certainly no where near a star yet and his physique scares the hell out of me since guys that size are at a higher risk to injury. I really hope that Hornacek builds his game in a way that will limit his risk. These 3 point shot fakes and drives are suicide plays that can really get him hurt. I want him more as a spot up deep shooter or down low (depending on matchups) but I do NOT want him driving in traffic!

The knicks need to beat the odds but lets not be surprised that there are many questions around this team and that there is significant risk. Vegas has no interest in ragging on the knicks.