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Forget about Rose and Jennings for a second. Is it worth it to starphuck for CP3 next season?


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ChuckBuck
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Could this be the Peyote Zen Master's plan all along?

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/the-path-to-chris-paul-becoming-a-knick-next-season/201122298

Since it is unquestionably the biggest elephant in the room, and likely the team's biggest distraction this year, let's get address it in September. The Knicks can clear enough money to sign Chris Paul, the Los Angeles Clippers' guard who is destined for the Hall of Fame that is set to become a free agent at the end of this season.

I know what you're thinking and I'm with you, but Ian Begley of ESPN got the ball rolling already so it needs to be addressed:

"The Knicks can also clear the point guard position altogether by renouncing both Jennings and Rose, which would leave them with approximately $24 million in cap space. In this instance, it would take only a minor move for the Knicks to put themselves in position to offer a max contract to a veteran with as many as six seasons of experience -- a deal that's projected to start at around $25.5 million in 2017.

New York also currently owns its 2017 first-round draft pick, which will likely impact its cap space in 2017 free agency. Assuming the Knicks keep the pick, it will count against the cap. The 2017-18 first overall pick's rookie-scale deal will start at roughly $5 million."

Like teammate Blake Griffin and other top-flight point guards that include Rose and Toronto's Kyle Lowry, Paul has the option to become a free agent this summer. Paul, a perennial All-NBA selection and close friend of Carmelo Anthony is always among the game's leaders in PER thanks to his ability to control the game on both sides of the ball. Like Anthony, Paul has struggled to get his team to the NBA Finals and this year probably won't be any different for the Clippers with Kevin Durant signing in Golden State.

While it's worth noting next summer's free agency class, it's important to remain focused on the 2016-17 season. Ideally, Rose and Anthony will mesh; giving the Knicks the decision to have a little negotiating power against Paul should he opt out. Best case scenario for Knicks fans would be an amazing comeback year for Rose and Paul to opt out of his contract to provide options moving forward.

If Kristaps Porzingis can make even greater strides this year it would make playing with Anthony that much more attractive for Paul, one of the game's all-time best pick-and-roll specialists.

I'm torn. Even at his advanced age, he could literally pick and pop KP to 20 PPG in his sleep. If CP3 could make a lesser talented David West average 21, the sky would be the limit with KP in elevating him to superstar status.

But then there's that nagging gut feeling that Paul would fall apart before we get to see this magic transformation.

Should we go with a proven HOF point guard or should we draft a potentially point guard running mate for KP??? This is tough!!!

YES! Best Pure Point Guard the Knicks will have in history besides Clyde and Action Jax
NAY! Dude's old as the dirt. Starphuck city, he'll break down like all Knicks vets do.
Stick with Rose, he's a surefire bet to regain MVP level
Let's draft our future PG. No need to win big now, win in 3 to 5 years.
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Author Thread
Nalod
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9/13/2016  11:01 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/13/2016  11:03 AM
If he is chasing a legacy, then he should take a pay cut. If he feels that's "Disrespectful", then I'd pass.
We can't max dudes in the their 30's past prime. Rose at 28 won't take the cut at his age, but the market will determine that.
Melo is the present and KP is the future. If guys want to play here and do what the "Heatles" did, thats cool.

Chuck, none of your choices fit my answer so Refrained.
I'd say: "If rose does not prove durable and top tier, then two years with CP3 at a price that allows us to still sign players as well. Also, Draft for the future at the sametime.
We still need money for a bench!!!

AUTOADVERT
ChuckBuck
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9/13/2016  12:54 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/13/2016  12:55 PM
Nalod wrote:If he is chasing a legacy, then he should take a pay cut. If he feels that's "Disrespectful", then I'd pass.
We can't max dudes in the their 30's past prime. Rose at 28 won't take the cut at his age, but the market will determine that.
Melo is the present and KP is the future. If guys want to play here and do what the "Heatles" did, thats cool.

Chuck, none of your choices fit my answer so Refrained.
I'd say: "If rose does not prove durable and top tier, then two years with CP3 at a price that allows us to still sign players as well. Also, Draft for the future at the sametime.
We still need money for a bench!!!

I also think the contract years are the big factor with CP3 on the Knicks. Anything more than a 3 year deal would be considered an albatross contract. I think a 2 year deal would be a no brainer, since his last 2 prime seasons would coincide with Melo's last 2, and would definitely serve as a lead-in to the KP Knicks era.

Having an all-time great at point like Chris Paul would no doubt accelerate Porzingis growth and Bball IQ, and show him on the court what he needs to do, to take his game to the next level.

If they could nab CP3 and draft his successor, that IMO, would be the best case scenario for the Knicks.

martin
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9/13/2016  1:39 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
Nalod wrote:If he is chasing a legacy, then he should take a pay cut. If he feels that's "Disrespectful", then I'd pass.
We can't max dudes in the their 30's past prime. Rose at 28 won't take the cut at his age, but the market will determine that.
Melo is the present and KP is the future. If guys want to play here and do what the "Heatles" did, thats cool.

Chuck, none of your choices fit my answer so Refrained.
I'd say: "If rose does not prove durable and top tier, then two years with CP3 at a price that allows us to still sign players as well. Also, Draft for the future at the sametime.
We still need money for a bench!!!

I also think the contract years are the big factor with CP3 on the Knicks. Anything more than a 3 year deal would be considered an albatross contract. I think a 2 year deal would be a no brainer, since his last 2 prime seasons would coincide with Melo's last 2, and would definitely serve as a lead-in to the KP Knicks era.

Having an all-time great at point like Chris Paul would no doubt accelerate Porzingis growth and Bball IQ, and show him on the court what he needs to do, to take his game to the next level.

If they could nab CP3 and draft his successor, that IMO, would be the best case scenario for the Knicks.

CP3 will not sign anything less than 4 years with any team next contact, so by your definition it's already albatross. In the real world, it's the cost of doing business with him. So let's re-balance this: any other team that signs what would be considered the best PG in the market will get a win.

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EnySpree
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9/13/2016  1:46 PM
Wait and see...
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LivingLegend
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9/13/2016  1:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/13/2016  1:50 PM
CP3 has an awful lot of mileage on that body.

He will be 32.5 going into the 2017/18 season and have just finished his 12th NBA season.

I've been around long enough to remember what Mo Cheek's looked like when we got him from Philly late in his career.

CP3 would probably be in the range of D-Harper and D-Rivers in terms of how much life he would have coming to the Knicks late in his career so wouldn't be throwing any kind of huge $$$ at him IMO.

fishmike
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9/13/2016  2:07 PM
EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...

this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
mreinman
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9/13/2016  3:08 PM
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...

this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years

so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
yellowboy90
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9/13/2016  3:30 PM
LivingLegend wrote:CP3 has an awful lot of mileage on that body.

He will be 32.5 going into the 2017/18 season and have just finished his 12th NBA season.

I've been around long enough to remember what Mo Cheek's looked like when we got him from Philly late in his career.

CP3 would probably be in the range of D-Harper and D-Rivers in terms of how much life he would have coming to the Knicks late in his career so wouldn't be throwing any kind of huge $$$ at him IMO.

I get what you are saying but I disagree. Baring injury he is likely to be like a Steve NAsh, John Stockton, or Billups(pre-achilles). Billups might not have meshed with MDA but he was still good plus CP3 is a different kind of player that can play uptempo a lot more than Billups could.

To me it depends on how good the team looks this year and the growth of KP. IF it looks like they can really compete for a championship if they got CP3 then sure why not go after him.

ChuckBuck
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9/13/2016  3:45 PM
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...

this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years

so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?

I would still take a 32.5 year old CP3 in a heart beat over a healthy Rose. The guy is like Professor X cerebral personified on the ball court, doesn't rely on athleticism at all.

That and draft the best point guard available as his understudy, and you have the makings of a stable back court for years and years.

mreinman
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9/13/2016  3:48 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...

this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years

so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?

I would still take a 32.5 year old CP3 in a heart beat over a healthy Rose. The guy is like Professor X cerebral personified on the ball court, doesn't rely on athleticism at all.

That and draft the best point guard available as his understudy, and you have the makings of a stable back court for years and years.

yeah duh! Of course CP3 over Rose even if healthy (which of course he never is).

so here is what phil is thinking ....
LivingLegend
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9/13/2016  4:13 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:CP3 has an awful lot of mileage on that body.

He will be 32.5 going into the 2017/18 season and have just finished his 12th NBA season.

I've been around long enough to remember what Mo Cheek's looked like when we got him from Philly late in his career.

CP3 would probably be in the range of D-Harper and D-Rivers in terms of how much life he would have coming to the Knicks late in his career so wouldn't be throwing any kind of huge $$$ at him IMO.

I get what you are saying but I disagree. Baring injury he is likely to be like a Steve NAsh, John Stockton, or Billups(pre-achilles). Billups might not have meshed with MDA but he was still good plus CP3 is a different kind of player that can play uptempo a lot more than Billups could.

To me it depends on how good the team looks this year and the growth of KP. IF it looks like they can really compete for a championship if they got CP3 then sure why not go after him.

Yeah - you may be right on Paul being able to play well into his mid/upper 30's.

But if we look really good this year in terms of adding a piece that could take us to a championship --- wouldn't D-Rose likely have something to do with us looking so good?
And -- if Rose does play well --- I think I take my chances on a just turning 29 (start of 2017 season) Rose who would be -3.5 years younger than CP3 with 4 to 5 less seasons of NBA wear/tear on his body.

I guess for me -- it's how good Rose looks this year.

fishmike
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9/13/2016  4:15 PM
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...

this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years

so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?

define solid... and be realistic about my chances to sign CP3. Does CP3 *want* to play for the Knicks? Or am I risking losing Rose for nothing so I have 20% chance to sign CP3 while I openly court him? CP3 is the better player.. of late, but has his own injury concerns as well and will want to be paid $30mm until he's 36 years old. Does that sound smart? A lot of things just don't make sense about CP3.

The ideal situation is Rose and Jennings both play their way into big deals, ideal as in they earned those big deals.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
mreinman
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9/13/2016  4:19 PM
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...

this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years

so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?

define solid... and be realistic about my chances to sign CP3. Does CP3 *want* to play for the Knicks? Or am I risking losing Rose for nothing so I have 20% chance to sign CP3 while I openly court him? CP3 is the better player.. of late, but has his own injury concerns as well and will want to be paid $30mm until he's 36 years old. Does that sound smart? A lot of things just don't make sense about CP3.

The ideal situation is Rose and Jennings both play their way into big deals, ideal as in they earned those big deals.

there is zero chance I would even give Rose a big deal and CP3 was and is and will always be 1000000x the player the Rose is/was/will be.

I would not pay him 30 mil for 4 years. 30 for 2 I would probably do - or 25 for 3 (maybe four? eeeeesh )

Again, no matter what Rose does, there is no way that I am going all in with him. He is a stop gap (I HOPE!!!!).

so here is what phil is thinking ....
fishmike
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9/13/2016  4:21 PM
mreinman wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...

this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years

so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?

I would still take a 32.5 year old CP3 in a heart beat over a healthy Rose. The guy is like Professor X cerebral personified on the ball court, doesn't rely on athleticism at all.

That and draft the best point guard available as his understudy, and you have the makings of a stable back court for years and years.

yeah duh! Of course CP3 over Rose even if healthy (which of course he never is).

So now back to the real world... Lets say the Knicks win 45 games and lose to Cle in the 2nd round. Rose has a very good season. Plays 70 games, scores 18ppg, 7 assists.. I know those #s don't mean anything to you in terms of value so focus on him being the #2 scorer, and fitting in very well.

Do you let him walk, losing him for nothing while you court CP3?

I mean CP3 over Rose? That's not really a relevant or interesting question. The question is are you willing to lose the one in the hand for the 2 in the bush?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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9/13/2016  4:28 PM
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...

this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years

so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?

define solid... and be realistic about my chances to sign CP3. Does CP3 *want* to play for the Knicks? Or am I risking losing Rose for nothing so I have 20% chance to sign CP3 while I openly court him? CP3 is the better player.. of late, but has his own injury concerns as well and will want to be paid $30mm until he's 36 years old. Does that sound smart? A lot of things just don't make sense about CP3.

The ideal situation is Rose and Jennings both play their way into big deals, ideal as in they earned those big deals.

there is zero chance I would even give Rose a big deal and CP3 was and is and will always be 1000000x the player the Rose is/was/will be.

I would not pay him 30 mil for 4 years. 30 for 2 I would probably do - or 25 for 3 (maybe four? eeeeesh )

Again, no matter what Rose does, there is no way that I am going all in with him. He is a stop gap (I HOPE!!!!).

Well CP3 is the WS/48 king so I might as well argue Hillary's virtues with Briggs... CP3 is a great great player. He's also not coming here. The bold part of your statement is pretty absolute. Your mind is made up before you have seen him play a minute in a Knicks uni. Youngest MVP ever and he's 27... Looks like there isn't anything else on the topic to discuss with you. Your good.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
mreinman
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9/13/2016  4:30 PM
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...

this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years

so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?

I would still take a 32.5 year old CP3 in a heart beat over a healthy Rose. The guy is like Professor X cerebral personified on the ball court, doesn't rely on athleticism at all.

That and draft the best point guard available as his understudy, and you have the makings of a stable back court for years and years.

yeah duh! Of course CP3 over Rose even if healthy (which of course he never is).

So now back to the real world... Lets say the Knicks win 45 games and lose to Cle in the 2nd round. Rose has a very good season. Plays 70 games, scores 18ppg, 7 assists.. I know those #s don't mean anything to you in terms of value so focus on him being the #2 scorer, and fitting in very well.

Do you let him walk, losing him for nothing while you court CP3?

I mean CP3 over Rose? That's not really a relevant or interesting question. The question is are you willing to lose the one in the hand for the 2 in the bush?

well of course you are correct that those numbers you mentioned don't mean much/enough to me but lets say he has a good season by all standards, not superstar good, just solid. Would I choose to give Rose 12 million vs. CP3 25? That would be a good problem to have, problem is, Rose will want 25 too because he (probably) believes he is way better than he actually is.

I guess that is all conjecture and for starters, lets see rose overcome big odds and have an efficient, solid, and healthy season.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
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9/13/2016  4:32 PM
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...

this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years

so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?

define solid... and be realistic about my chances to sign CP3. Does CP3 *want* to play for the Knicks? Or am I risking losing Rose for nothing so I have 20% chance to sign CP3 while I openly court him? CP3 is the better player.. of late, but has his own injury concerns as well and will want to be paid $30mm until he's 36 years old. Does that sound smart? A lot of things just don't make sense about CP3.

The ideal situation is Rose and Jennings both play their way into big deals, ideal as in they earned those big deals.

there is zero chance I would even give Rose a big deal and CP3 was and is and will always be 1000000x the player the Rose is/was/will be.

I would not pay him 30 mil for 4 years. 30 for 2 I would probably do - or 25 for 3 (maybe four? eeeeesh )

Again, no matter what Rose does, there is no way that I am going all in with him. He is a stop gap (I HOPE!!!!).

Well CP3 is the WS/48 king so I might as well argue Hillary's virtues with Briggs... CP3 is a great great player. He's also not coming here. The bold part of your statement is pretty absolute. Your mind is made up before you have seen him play a minute in a Knicks uni. Youngest MVP ever and he's 27... Looks like there isn't anything else on the topic to discuss with you. Your good.

this is true because once a car was in a number of bad accidents the value will just never be close to the same to one that has a clean carfax

so here is what phil is thinking ....
ChuckBuck
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9/13/2016  4:34 PM
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...

this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years

so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?

I would still take a 32.5 year old CP3 in a heart beat over a healthy Rose. The guy is like Professor X cerebral personified on the ball court, doesn't rely on athleticism at all.

That and draft the best point guard available as his understudy, and you have the makings of a stable back court for years and years.

yeah duh! Of course CP3 over Rose even if healthy (which of course he never is).

So now back to the real world... Lets say the Knicks win 45 games and lose to Cle in the 2nd round. Rose has a very good season. Plays 70 games, scores 18ppg, 7 assists.. I know those #s don't mean anything to you in terms of value so focus on him being the #2 scorer, and fitting in very well.

Do you let him walk, losing him for nothing while you court CP3?

I mean CP3 over Rose? That's not really a relevant or interesting question. The question is are you willing to lose the one in the hand for the 2 in the bush?

How can you say back to the real world and use a hypothetical best case scenario with a Derrick Rose averaging 18 and 7 when he hasn't come close to averaging that for 5 seasons?!!!!

If CP3 signs elsewhere, I'd rather let Rose walk for nothing and draft and groom a point guard.

GustavBahler
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9/13/2016  5:28 PM
If the Clips crash and burn in the playoffs next season, who knows? Paul might not look forward to having to deal with Durant at GS for the foreseeable future. Paul isn't geting any younger. Might feel he has a better shot in the east with LeBron getting older, than with GS and OKC in the west.

I would sign Paul long term over Rose, but Im no so sure the Knicks should commit to either of them long term.

dk7th
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9/13/2016  6:32 PM
NO
knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Forget about Rose and Jennings for a second. Is it worth it to starphuck for CP3 next season?

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