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who is better, J.Craw or H2O
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Allanfan20
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8/6/2004  4:01 PM
Houston does occasionally switch to the small foward, but he cannot start there, just like how Sprewell really shouldn't have been starting at the 3, when he was here. He just isn't tall enough. He can play physical at times, but it's just not his position to play a majority of his minutes. Maybe 8-10 minutes, but that's really it. It does depend on matchups though.

If the playoffs started today, and Crawford was at his level from last year, and Houston was healthy, I'd take Houston, just b/c he's a proven winner. But I agree that Crawford has a ton of upside, and can certainly benefit playing behind Houston and Marbury and besides Penny. Ariza and Crawford can learn from eachother too.
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crzymdups
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8/6/2004  4:05 PM
The thing about the NBA is that starting lineups are important, but you obviously make changes all game long for matchups.

There was an article in ESPN magazine about the 5-man units on the floor the most throughout the league and the percentage of minutes they were all on the floor together. It was written around the all-star break. The team that led the league was the Kings, with the five starters being on the floor 42% of the game. 42%. That means that 58% of the game, you need to be using some aspect of your bench. That's why I like the idea of having Marbury, Houston and Crawford here and healthy. Depth is a good thing in this league.
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simrud
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8/6/2004  4:59 PM
Whoever is actually better, but I sure as hell like having this argument over who is more fit to start, Ward or Eisly. You just can't have too much talent.
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Silverfuel
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8/6/2004  6:12 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

He can play physical at times

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA. ROFLMAO
You Houston fans are too much at times.
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simrud
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8/6/2004  6:52 PM
Houston is a very good jumpshooter who can also shoot over people thus creating his own shot. I really don't understand why the Knicks never run the play JVG used to run for him on the baseline, that ISO that Srpee and Houston used to get like every other possesion. That was prolly the best spot for Houston to operate, on the left baseline, he actually got doubled there. I personally like Craw's game better, he rebounds, passes, and has the physical gifts to be a good defender, plus he is an athletic finisher/penetrator. I think playin Houston at SF against small teams is not such a bad idea. If there SF is not a threat on the lowblock, then Houston will not defend him any worse then he would a shooting guard.
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gunsnewing
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8/6/2004  7:44 PM
Crawford will buy into a team the team concept. He has no choice....He's on a much better team now. That is the least of my worries
tkf
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8/6/2004  7:50 PM
I think craw is better all around but Houston probably has the best midrange game in basketball, but the question is, How are teams going to deal with both Houston and crawford and their substitutions patterns, I mean just imagine teams trying to match up with their second string players... Ouch!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Silverfuel
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8/6/2004  8:32 PM
Posted by simrud:

Houston is a very good jumpshooter who can also shoot over people thus creating his own shot.
He is 1-dimensional as in all he can do is jump shoot. No, more like, all he wants to do is Jumpshoot. Anything else that requires effort he says he cannot do because thats not his GAME!!!

I think anyone that is 6'6 and as big as H2O should have no problem getting 4 rebounds per game.
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EnySpree
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8/6/2004  8:40 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by simrud:

Houston is a very good jumpshooter who can also shoot over people thus creating his own shot.
He is 1-dimensional as in all he can do is jump shoot. No, more like, all he wants to do is Jumpshoot. Anything else that requires effort he says he cannot do because thats not his GAME!!!

I think anyone that is 6'6 and as big as H2O should have no problem getting 4 rebounds per game.

I couldn't have said it better.

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simrud
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8/6/2004  9:57 PM
You are right a 100%, and I'm one of Houston's biggest opponents, has been for a long time, ever since he signed that deal and we stunk with him, but you have to give credit where it is due.

Houston is a one dimensional shooter, yes, but he is a good shooter, and he can get his shoot over people.

However he can't rebound, pass, or defend.

Like I already said I'd pick Craw over him. But Houston is still a usefull player. He def can be utilized, he just needs to be used correctly. Like JVG used to use him. In ISO's on the wing.
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Bobby
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8/7/2004  12:55 PM
now that this year's flavor is jamal crawford, he still needs to start playing games in orange and blue. boy, i can't wait to see the big shots crawford is gonna make. as far as im concern h20 is the proven player in a win situation....
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Nalod
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8/7/2004  1:49 PM
allan is one dimentional? Yeah, he can SHOOT! A diminished skill in the NBA. I don't want him doing much else but score. Before he got hurt he carried the team on his back.

Craw gets better every game he does not play this summer. Get real. He has upside, but lets see it out. And there is the potential he and Marbs won't get along or flow together!

its all subjective what we think. Its interesting, but im no fool. This thing also has the potential to be a disaster as well.
Silverfuel
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8/7/2004  3:14 PM
Posted by Nalod:

allan is one dimentional? Yeah, he can SHOOT! A diminished skill in the NBA. I don't want him doing much else but score.
I want him to score as well but it would be wise to add something more to his arsenal other than jump shooting. Running without the ball would be an example some he cannot do at the end of games to get open.
Before he got hurt he carried the team on his back.
yea, he carried his team on his back to a 37 nad 45 record with Sprewell on the team. He really is not a franchise player or even a 2nd option to franchise player.

Crawford might have upside but my point is that Houston is not even as good as Crawford even though he has the ability to be better. Houston refuses to play defense, rebound, pass the ball a little better and drive to the hoop to get more FTs.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 08/07/2004 16:55:17]
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simrud
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8/7/2004  4:11 PM
Houston did not carry us to anything good. Craw has not carried the Bulls to anything good. It remains to be seen what they will do for the Knicks together. I personally think that Craw will start over Houston in a couple of years granted Houston is healthy. If not, he will start this season. Neither scenario sounds like a disaster to me. Its not like we paid Jerome James a boatload bases on his projected per 48 stats the way the Sonics did. We got a proven scorer with unlimited upside for a boatload of sh*it. OH, Deke, Trybanski, and FW is a joak of a trade package. There only value is that there deals expire this year. Considering that to the Knicks these expiring deals would not anywhere near under the cap, they had 0 value to the Knicks. Even if Craw never amounts to anything more then Bobby Jackson, this is still a good trade.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Silverfuel
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8/7/2004  4:54 PM
Posted by simrud:

Houston did not carry us to anything good. Craw has not carried the Bulls to anything good. It remains to be seen what they will do for the Knicks together. I personally think that Craw will start over Houston in a couple of years granted Houston is healthy. If not, he will start this season. Neither scenario sounds like a disaster to me. Its not like we paid Jerome James a boatload bases on his projected per 48 stats the way the Sonics did. We got a proven scorer with unlimited upside for a boatload of sh*it. OH, Deke, Trybanski, and FW is a joak of a trade package. There only value is that there deals expire this year. Considering that to the Knicks these expiring deals would not anywhere near under the cap, they had 0 value to the Knicks. Even if Craw never amounts to anything more then Bobby Jackson, this is still a good trade.
good post
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tkf
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8/8/2004  1:14 AM
All I keep hearing is that Houston didn't carry the knicks to anything good, that is why he is not a star player..blah, blah, blah, Houston has one of the best if not the best midrange game in the NBA, don't be fooled you don't average 20ppg on a team with no options, no post game if you are not a bonafide player.. Houston torched guys a couple of years ago as the only option with a devestating mid range game, and for those who use he knicks record as a way of discrediting Houton, tell me why the magic had the worst record in the league with T-Mac on that team?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BigSm00th
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8/8/2004  3:25 AM
Who cares about all of this who is better talk, I think the full extent of Houston playing well will be when the Knicks have BOTH on the floor.

Let's not forget how well Houston played last year when Marbury was getting him open looks, now he'll have Crawford to do the same thing. Houston is a guy that should flourish as a 2nd to 4th option (same with Tim Thomas).

If Houston gets healthy and the Knicks can have a backcourt of Marbury and Crawford, throw Tim Thomas and Houston out there, along with one big man, then THEYLL be the ones causing matchup problems, not the opponent (when was the last time this happened).

I can't wait to watch Houston with Crawford and Marbury and just getting all these open looks and not having to create his own shot a million times a game.
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Silverfuel
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8/8/2004  7:09 AM
Posted by BigSm00th:

Who cares about all of this who is better talk
I do! If it bothers you so much, I am sorry and you can ignore the thread.
Let's not forget how well Houston played last year when Marbury was getting him open looks, now he'll have Crawford to do the same thing. Houston is a guy that should flourish as a 2nd to 4th option (same with Tim Thomas).
Houston plays well only when he gets open looks. He is a good jump shooter but if you take the time to read you will see that my main point is that he refuses to do anything other than JUMP SHOOT!!!
If Houston gets healthy and the Knicks can have a backcourt of Marbury and Crawford, throw Tim Thomas and Houston out there, along with one big man, then THEYLL be the ones causing matchup problems, not the opponent (when was the last time this happened).
[quote]
Marbury and the big man will be the only 2 ppl playing defense because Craw doesn't move his feet, Tim Thomas goes for the steal and Houston has never heard of playing defense. I think the match up problems will affect both line-ups in that case.
[quote]
I can't wait to watch Houston with Crawford and Marbury and just getting all these open looks and not having to create his own shot a million times a game.
CREATE HIS OWN SHOT? Other than shooting over some smaller SGs 5 times a game, I have not seen Houston create his own shot since JVG left. I have been watching every single game for the last 5 year and you can ask anyone you want: Houston does not create his own shot, he is a jump shooter only.

If you have seen Houston "create his own shot a million times a game" we have absolutely nothing to discuss because you watched something completely out of this world. Houston can probably create 2 shots a game. MAYBE 2!!
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Bonn1997
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8/8/2004  8:46 AM
Houston DOES create his own shot. He's a master at throwing pump fakes to get his defender off balance and creating space to shoot.
Silverfuel
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8/8/2004  10:27 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

He's a master at throwing pump fakes to get his defender off balance and creating space to shoot.
WOW! OK, so he pump fakes and "creates his shot". You are saying that is what he does a million times a game and thats what you are hoping you will not have to do with Crawford in?

What I am saying is, not only should he keep pump faking, he should also do other things like, player harder on defense, rebound the ball (which he refuses to do), try and get some more assists and also drive the ball a little more! Is that too much to ask from someone as talented as Houston?

Atleast drive more so that he can use his amazing FT%!
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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