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Where the heck is Hillary Clinton?
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Knickoftime
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10/25/2016  12:29 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Blaming the Russian's has sure become convenient but we should try to look more closely at the content of the information.

I did not realize the headline was irrelevant to the reason you cited it.

My mistake.

Besides, Have the Russian's been convicted of this crime? Did I miss something? If not, it is alleged right? By Rule of Law, we cannot say for sure they did or did, so really they didn't. Once they are criminally charged and convicted then maybe we can blame them well, at least until they get pardoned or appeal.

Indeed.

Also, why the wikileaks hatred now? Afterall, they won awards for journalISM previously!

Because Wikileaks has evolved as an organization. It originated as a whistleblower site, which is a journalistic tradition. By most accounts it is not longer that. Hacking and whistleblowing are different means to similar ends.

If you're arguing that everything and anything involved the public interest should be fair targets of outside hacking, perhaps even by adversarial foreign powers, that's an opinion I do not agree with.

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Knickoftime
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10/25/2016  12:32 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:I am getting a little tired of the Trump supporter bashing. Have we learned nothing from SNL and Tom Hanks?

Ummm, what did we learn?

GoNyGoNyGo
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10/25/2016  12:39 PM
TheGame wrote:
DrAlphaeus wrote:
Nalod wrote:Math is not strong among Trump supporters.

It ain't strong with me either! I am getting a little tired of the Trump supporter bashing. Have we learned nothing from SNL and Tom Hanks?

AM New York — that free subway paper — endorsed Hillary but I thought the way they laid out the case against Donald Trump was revealing, giving him credit for what he has been able to do politically while acknowledging he is not likely to have the skills to pull it off.

EDITORIAL
Donald Trump cannot be president. Here’s why
By The Editorial Board October 24, 2016
http://www.amny.com/opinion/editorial/donald-trump-cannot-be-president-here-s-why-1.12491929

THE BOTTOM LINE

- The flaw in Donald Trump’s candidacy is that his best promises are fairy tales, but his worst attributes are real.
- Our leaders must address the needs Trump deftly identified. He has proved himself singularly incapable of doing so.

A political novice like Donald Trump couldn’t have caught fire, built a deeply loyal following and defeated 16 experienced candidates without saying something many people found compelling. The Republican nominee did this from the start, with some important, honest statements, and some untrue and ugly ones.

It’s no coincidence that many of the most compelling points the New York billionaire made were also stressed by the Democratic Party’s upstart candidate, Sen. Bernie Sanders. Both men were convincing in their attacks on a system in which big-money contributors buy politicians, elections and laws. The two targeted the ruling class of politicians and powerful supporters who so often rig the game to their advantage.
And both men caught the mood of the moment when they attacked treaties like the North American Free Trade Agreement as unfair and poorly negotiated. There is a sense among many Americans that these deals have sent good jobs out of the country to mostly benefit wealthy corporations without safeguarding our workers or industries.

Increased automation and outsourcing of jobs have been changing this country for decades. Establishment politicians from both parties have ignored the pain the changes have caused. Hard data show the middle class is shrinking on Long Island and across the nation. The government has to do more to restore the growth of this bedrock segment of our society, a point Trump made brilliantly.

Trump also deviated from mainstream Republican philosophy to his benefit and credit. He never told a GOP base increasingly dependent on the social safety net that he planned to slash programs like food stamps, Medicare or Social Security to pay for tax breaks for the wealthy. There is no political future for the Republican Party if it insists on continuing to make such a promise.

And Trump gave voice to the widely held belief that government is a maddening bastion of incompetence and inefficiency that needs a free-market nudge.

But Trump also said terrible things, and it is disheartening that some of his most vehement supporters seemed to be more attracted to his travesties than his truths.

Trump kicked off his campaign by saying Mexico sends us rapists and drug dealers. His degradations of women are revolting to hear and impossible to explain away. His presumptions that Muslims are dangerous and that all black people live in crime-ridden neighborhoods and have no jobs are ignorant and bizarre.

Trump flouted crucial traditions like the release of tax returns by nominees. And rather than the hoped-for pivot to an acceptable general election campaign after the primaries, Trump began cynically attacking and questioning our treasured institutions: the rights of a free press and freedom of religion, the judicial system, and the credibility of the FBI. Worst of all, in a pre-emptive move to explain away his likely loss, he claimed an unfounded fear of fake votes and a “rigged” election that could be heard by his most vehement fans as a justification for Election Day vigilantism.

Trump never said how he would defeat the Islamic State, or force China or Russia or Mexico or any nation to do his bidding. He never said how he’d rebuild the military or the nation’s infrastructure, how he’d improve education or health care or pay for his tax cuts.

The flaw in Trump’s candidacy is that his best promises are fairy tales, but his worst attributes are real. He can’t bring back 1950s-style manufacturing jobs, immediately end illegal immigration or quickly squelch terrorism. But he would bring callous indifference and divisiveness to our society and furious, impetuous and ignorant leadership to the White House. Three times in debates with Hillary Clinton he tried to remain calm and presidential. Not once could he keep his cool for even 90 minutes.

Our leaders must address the needs Trump deftly identified. He has proved himself singularly incapable of doing so.

Good article. Trumps problem is that, while he says some things that sound good, he has no concrete plan to achieve his promises. In fact, much of what he promises is fiscally inpossible. Thus, to tbose people who realize this, it becomes clear that Trump is just spouting sound bites with no real plan. You couple this with the fact that he has no ability to control his anger or ego, and you have some who is dangerously unprepared and ill-suited to run a country.


Agree, the article is fair. He is struggling because he is who he is.

Likewise, she is who she is and she has not buried him yet. According to those who have been assigned to protect her, she too has anger issues. And anyone running for POTUS has an ego that is HUUUUUGE...lol.

I will say that she has worked all her life to get to this moment, so while not far, far, far from an ideal choice,IMO, she is more prepared to be POTUS than DJT. Scary as that will be, IMO.

Welpee
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10/25/2016  12:44 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:for your reading pleasures...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-is-blaming-russia-for-wikileaks-to_us_580dbb26e4b099c4343198ff?

So is the conclusion here the Intelligence Community is under the control of Hilary Clinton?

Because THAT's who's blaming wikileaks on the Russians.


I would rather pay attention to the real story of following the money as I had stated before in relation to the CF.

The relative info that I get from this article is the connection between Podesta, the selling of Uranium to Russia, HRC, WJC Clinton and donations to the Clinton Foundation based on favors done while she was SOS.

Blaming the Russian's has sure become convenient but we should try to look more closely at the content of the information.

Besides, Have the Russian's been convicted of this crime? Did I miss something? If not, it is alleged right? By Rule of Law, we cannot say for sure they did or did, so really they didn't. Once they are criminally charged and convicted then maybe we can blame them well, at least until they get pardoned or appeal.

In fact, I think Assange himself has said it was not the Russians who leaked this to him. I mean who would know better than him right?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wikileaks-julian-assange-no-proof-hacked-dnc-emails-came-russia-n616541

Also, why the wikileaks hatred now? Afterall, they won awards for journalISM previously!

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/27/wikileaks_wins_major_journalism_award_in_australia/

Yeah, because Assange is such a credible guy. On the run from multiple countries, dodging a rape charge. Yeah, let's take him at his word.
GoNyGoNyGo
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10/25/2016  12:59 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Blaming the Russian's has sure become convenient but we should try to look more closely at the content of the information.

I did not realize the headline was irrelevant to the reason you cited it.

My mistake.

Besides, Have the Russian's been convicted of this crime? Did I miss something? If not, it is alleged right? By Rule of Law, we cannot say for sure they did or did, so really they didn't. Once they are criminally charged and convicted then maybe we can blame them well, at least until they get pardoned or appeal.

Indeed.

Also, why the wikileaks hatred now? Afterall, they won awards for journalISM previously!

Because Wikileaks has evolved as an organization. It originated as a whistleblower site, which is a journalistic tradition. By most accounts it is not longer that. Hacking and whistleblowing are different means to similar ends.

If you're arguing that everything and anything involved the public interest should be fair targets of outside hacking, perhaps even by adversarial foreign powers, that's an opinion I do not agree with.

I posted an article, you came back with comments about the Russians being the hackers. I and others have shown you that they may not be.

Yes, your mistake.

As for the second part...I will post the last 3 paragraphs of the article.

While few people know the Clinton Foundation’s ties to Uranium one, or the Podesta Group’s ties to both Uranium One and Sberbank, even fewer people know Bill Clinton’s activities in Russia. As stated above, “Mr. Clinton received $500,000 for a Moscow speech from a Russian investment bank with links to the Kremlin.”

Accusing Julian Assange and WikiLeaks of working for Russia or Trump is not only irresponsible, but also ignores the fact millions of Americans want to learn about corruption within their political system. WikiLeaks has thus far contributed greatly to American democracy by balancing out a press enjoying lavish dinners at John Podesta’s house. Even more troubling is NBC’s Chuck Todd hosting a dinner for John Podesta. Between the Washington Post and New York Times sending the Clinton campaign articles to edit, America needs Julian Assange and WikiLeaks more than ever.

Most importantly, the Podesta Group’s well-documented ties to Russia far outweigh the Cold War propaganda leveled at WikiLeaks. There’s a reason the Clinton campaign has frantically blamed Russia for every WikiLeaks revelation. Hillary Clinton certainly doesn’t want voters to learn of her campaign’s links to Russia, and would rather disparage a needed whistleblower than focus upon the lobbying history of her own campaign manager.


If you have a problem with that, contact the writer.

GoNyGoNyGo
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10/25/2016  1:06 PM
POTUS said he learned of HRC private email account from the news. Untrue - he was emailing with her.


Hmmmm...were any secrets or classified docs in those emails? Were they the ones deleted? Maybe they were doing Yoga together??

It Could explain why DOJ intervened and why no charges were brought against HRC. You decide.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/31077#efmAABABT

Knickoftime
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10/25/2016  1:12 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I posted an article, you came back with comments about the Russians being the hackers. I and others have shown you that they may not be.

You have? I missed that.

As for the second part...I will post the last 3 paragraphs of the article.

Okay, so the article is all about Clintion Foundation corruption... got it.

While few people know the Clinton Foundation’s ties to Uranium one, or the Podesta Group’s ties to both Uranium One and Sberbank, even fewer people know Bill Clinton’s activities in Russia. As stated above, “Mr. Clinton received $500,000 for a Moscow speech from a Russian investment bank with links to the Kremlin.”

Accusing Julian Assange and WikiLeaks of working for Russia or Trump is not only irresponsible, but also ignores the fact millions of Americans want to learn about corruption within their political system. WikiLeaks has thus far contributed greatly to American democracy by balancing out a press enjoying lavish dinners at John Podesta’s house. Even more troubling is NBC’s Chuck Todd hosting a dinner for John Podesta. Between the Washington Post and New York Times sending the Clinton campaign articles to edit, America needs Julian Assange and WikiLeaks more than ever.

Most importantly, the Podesta Group’s well-documented ties to Russia far outweigh the Cold War propaganda leveled at WikiLeaks. There’s a reason the Clinton campaign has frantically blamed Russia for every WikiLeaks revelation. Hillary Clinton certainly doesn’t want voters to learn of her campaign’s links to Russia, and would rather disparage a needed whistleblower than focus upon the lobbying history of her own campaign manager.

If you have a problem with that, contact the writer.

I intended to highlight how much of the last three paragraph were actually about Clinton Foundation corruption and how much were about misplacing blame on the Russian accusation on Clinton. I thought I'd bold maybe three sentences when I started. I didn't realize or intend I'd bold all but 2.

You posted the graphs, so I'll ask you. Do you not recognize how the last sentence in the concluding statement of the thesis of the whole article and how it is misleading?

Yes or no?

You just demonstrated I understood the point of the article all along.

I've stated my position on hacking and whistleblowing clearly.

Can you state yours?

And does it include you too? Can anyone hack your data and leak it to the public to justify their ends?

Vmart
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10/25/2016  1:33 PM
Nalod wrote:Math is not strong among Trump supporters.

I don't get this. Democrates are become to well versed to name calling. If someone isn't for their party they must be idiots right. Democrates really need to take their head out of the sand and be more open minded.

Nalod
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10/25/2016  1:37 PM
Many men want to like Hillary. But she is not very likable.

Why? Temper? Manipulative? Power hungry? Crooked? Questionable resume?
Ok, I get that.
Put those words next to Trump and they are valid as well.
Then its down to issues and policies. This is where they start to look different.
Trump seems to score well and leads polls among those who think he would be better for the economy. This is actually where he has been vague and his math is awful. It won't work.
Those who think he is a financial success and have bought into his act think he scores big league here.

What about the educated and successful that are voting for Trump? Is it that they support him or he is their binary choice to execute supreme court judges that are inline with their values?

Knickoftime
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10/25/2016  1:38 PM
Vmart wrote:
Nalod wrote:Math is not strong among Trump supporters.

I don't get this. Democrates are become to well versed to name calling. If someone isn't for their party they must be idiots right. Democrates really need to take their head out of the sand and be more open minded.

No, no. Not at all.

It's like the all apes are mammals but not all mammals are apes thing.

Trump supporters aren't all idiots.

Poll deniers are.

It just so happens not all Trump supporters are poll deniers but almost all poll deniers are Trump supporters.

Vmart
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10/25/2016  1:52 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Nalod wrote:Math is not strong among Trump supporters.

I don't get this. Democrates are become to well versed to name calling. If someone isn't for their party they must be idiots right. Democrates really need to take their head out of the sand and be more open minded.

No, no. Not at all.

It's like the all apes are mammals but not all mammals are apes thing.

Trump supporters aren't all idiots.

Poll deniers are.

It just so happens not all Trump supporters are poll deniers but almost all poll deniers are Trump supporters.

I'm in Texas. They say it's about to become a purple state. I been talking to people I would say majority are still republican and will vote republican. I think the polls are inflated for Hillary. But that could comeback and haunt her because thinking she is going to win some people won't bother to vote.

reub
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10/25/2016  2:04 PM
Vmart wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Nalod wrote:Math is not strong among Trump supporters.

I don't get this. Democrates are become to well versed to name calling. If someone isn't for their party they must be idiots right. Democrates really need to take their head out of the sand and be more open minded.

No, no. Not at all.

It's like the all apes are mammals but not all mammals are apes thing.

Trump supporters aren't all idiots.

Poll deniers are.

It just so happens not all Trump supporters are poll deniers but almost all poll deniers are Trump supporters.

I'm in Texas. They say it's about to become a purple state. I been talking to people I would say majority are still republican and will vote republican. I think the polls are inflated for Hillary. But that could comeback and haunt her because thinking she is going to win some people won't bother to vote.

It's all in the Wikileaks emails. The Clinton corruption machine has been scheming to inflate the polls in their favor for years now. They were requesting the best methods to "oversample" their numbers. They did the same to Bernie and he won a lot of states where the polls showed he was going to get slaughtered.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551

fishmike
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10/25/2016  2:09 PM
reub wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Nalod wrote:Math is not strong among Trump supporters.

I don't get this. Democrates are become to well versed to name calling. If someone isn't for their party they must be idiots right. Democrates really need to take their head out of the sand and be more open minded.

No, no. Not at all.

It's like the all apes are mammals but not all mammals are apes thing.

Trump supporters aren't all idiots.

Poll deniers are.

It just so happens not all Trump supporters are poll deniers but almost all poll deniers are Trump supporters.

I'm in Texas. They say it's about to become a purple state. I been talking to people I would say majority are still republican and will vote republican. I think the polls are inflated for Hillary. But that could comeback and haunt her because thinking she is going to win some people won't bother to vote.

It's all in the Wikileaks emails. The Clinton corruption machine has been scheming to inflate the polls in their favor for years now. They were requesting the best methods to "oversample" their numbers. They did the same to Bernie and he won a lot of states where the polls showed he was going to get slaughtered.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551

is that corruption? Or are those tactics to gain an advantage? Are you more comfortable with Trump's outright treason vs. Hillary's corruption?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knickoftime
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10/25/2016  2:10 PM
Vmart wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Nalod wrote:Math is not strong among Trump supporters.

I don't get this. Democrates are become to well versed to name calling. If someone isn't for their party they must be idiots right. Democrates really need to take their head out of the sand and be more open minded.

No, no. Not at all.

It's like the all apes are mammals but not all mammals are apes thing.

Trump supporters aren't all idiots.

Poll deniers are.

It just so happens not all Trump supporters are poll deniers but almost all poll deniers are Trump supporters.

I'm in Texas. They say it's about to become a purple state. I been talking to people I would say majority are still republican and will vote republican. I think the polls are inflated for Hillary. But that could comeback and haunt her because thinking she is going to win some people won't bother to vote.

I think most people with a nuanced understanding of electoral demographics believe that with the rising latino population and the high number of professionals with degrees moving to the state that it is poised to become purple over the next few decades.

It is perhaps purple-ish this cycle because of how significantly and unusually incompetent the GOP nominee is. Most agree under any normal circumstance it would not be purple in 2016 or any time for several more cycles. And most of the data driven sources as opposed to the narrative ones still give Trump a significant edge.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/texas/

As always, it's a matter of how big a picture you want to take in. I think a lot of people are prone to gravitating to the first thing they can successfully refute. Some talking heads are impressed by a few closer than usual Texas polls and that should be debunked, but smart money is still on Trump holding Texas.

That said, the same data-driven sources will tell you they cannot 100% predict this election, but that historically the "too confident/low turnout" narrative has been bunk. The data in fact suggests the opposite.

I understand the intuitive assumption you made. It sounds logical spoken out loud, it appeals to our sense of how things work. But that's when you look for historical precedent to measure your assumption against, and in this case, the assumption isn't supported by evidence.

meloshouldgo
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10/25/2016  2:10 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:Reading a long form article in The Atlantic right now:

How Democrats Killed Their Populist Soul
In the 1970s, a new wave of post-Watergate liberals stopped fighting monopoly power. The result is an increasingly dangerous political system.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/how-democrats-killed-their-populist-soul/504710/
All the Democrats in this thread especially need to read this. Would love to hear anyone's thoughts on it.

I'm about halfway done... particularly interesting in light of the AT&T/TimeWarner merger. Trump has expressed serious doubt — as CNN is on Trump's Enemies list — as has Kaine more weakly. Haven't heard anything from Hills on that one.

Who are these people and why are they stealing my material?
Couldn't agree more, the post Watergate democrats absolutely created this paradox of liberal ideals for social justice coupled the this benevolence towards bang sector and the polarization of power and wealth. This pandering to the rich has led to massive to apathy and coma of the left wing voter base, or should have. When one sector becomes more powerful than the state it is trying to influence then you have reached the essence of fascism.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Knickoftime
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10/25/2016  2:11 PM
fishmike wrote:
reub wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Nalod wrote:Math is not strong among Trump supporters.

I don't get this. Democrates are become to well versed to name calling. If someone isn't for their party they must be idiots right. Democrates really need to take their head out of the sand and be more open minded.

No, no. Not at all.

It's like the all apes are mammals but not all mammals are apes thing.

Trump supporters aren't all idiots.

Poll deniers are.

It just so happens not all Trump supporters are poll deniers but almost all poll deniers are Trump supporters.

I'm in Texas. They say it's about to become a purple state. I been talking to people I would say majority are still republican and will vote republican. I think the polls are inflated for Hillary. But that could comeback and haunt her because thinking she is going to win some people won't bother to vote.

It's all in the Wikileaks emails. The Clinton corruption machine has been scheming to inflate the polls in their favor for years now. They were requesting the best methods to "oversample" their numbers. They did the same to Bernie and he won a lot of states where the polls showed he was going to get slaughtered.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551

is that corruption? Or are those tactics to gain an advantage?

Your question is moot, because they actually didn't do that.

Again, we do the discourse a disservice by answering stupid questions genuinely.

Bonn1997
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10/25/2016  2:11 PM
Vmart wrote:
Nalod wrote:Math is not strong among Trump supporters.

I don't get this. Democrates are become to well versed to name calling. If someone isn't for their party they must be idiots right. Democrates really need to take their head out of the sand and be more open minded.


But the person at the top of the ticket (Trump) does more name calling than anyone else (Little Marco, Lyin' Ted, Crooked Hillary). I know, Hillary once made and then took back the deplorables comment but it's a regular occurrence (in fact, an intentional strategy) on Trump's part.
Bonn1997
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10/25/2016  2:15 PM
Vmart wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Nalod wrote:Math is not strong among Trump supporters.

I don't get this. Democrates are become to well versed to name calling. If someone isn't for their party they must be idiots right. Democrates really need to take their head out of the sand and be more open minded.

No, no. Not at all.

It's like the all apes are mammals but not all mammals are apes thing.

Trump supporters aren't all idiots.

Poll deniers are.

It just so happens not all Trump supporters are poll deniers but almost all poll deniers are Trump supporters.

I'm in Texas. They say it's about to become a purple state. I been talking to people I would say majority are still republican and will vote republican. I think the polls are inflated for Hillary. But that could comeback and haunt her because thinking she is going to win some people won't bother to vote.


Are you in a major city? If not, then most of the people you talk to likely are Republican.
Welpee
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10/25/2016  2:16 PM
reub wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Nalod wrote:Math is not strong among Trump supporters.

I don't get this. Democrates are become to well versed to name calling. If someone isn't for their party they must be idiots right. Democrates really need to take their head out of the sand and be more open minded.

No, no. Not at all.

It's like the all apes are mammals but not all mammals are apes thing.

Trump supporters aren't all idiots.

Poll deniers are.

It just so happens not all Trump supporters are poll deniers but almost all poll deniers are Trump supporters.

I'm in Texas. They say it's about to become a purple state. I been talking to people I would say majority are still republican and will vote republican. I think the polls are inflated for Hillary. But that could comeback and haunt her because thinking she is going to win some people won't bother to vote.

It's all in the Wikileaks emails. The Clinton corruption machine has been scheming to inflate the polls in their favor for years now. They were requesting the best methods to "oversample" their numbers. They did the same to Bernie and he won a lot of states where the polls showed he was going to get slaughtered.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551

And you really interpreted that email to mean the campaign was going to make the media over represent democrats in the polls they published. That's how you read this? Also, did you catch the date? 2008? Really?
Bonn1997
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10/25/2016  2:18 PM
fishmike wrote:
reub wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Nalod wrote:Math is not strong among Trump supporters.

I don't get this. Democrates are become to well versed to name calling. If someone isn't for their party they must be idiots right. Democrates really need to take their head out of the sand and be more open minded.

No, no. Not at all.

It's like the all apes are mammals but not all mammals are apes thing.

Trump supporters aren't all idiots.

Poll deniers are.

It just so happens not all Trump supporters are poll deniers but almost all poll deniers are Trump supporters.

I'm in Texas. They say it's about to become a purple state. I been talking to people I would say majority are still republican and will vote republican. I think the polls are inflated for Hillary. But that could comeback and haunt her because thinking she is going to win some people won't bother to vote.

It's all in the Wikileaks emails. The Clinton corruption machine has been scheming to inflate the polls in their favor for years now. They were requesting the best methods to "oversample" their numbers. They did the same to Bernie and he won a lot of states where the polls showed he was going to get slaughtered.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551

is that corruption? Or are those tactics to gain an advantage? Are you more comfortable with Trump's outright treason vs. Hillary's corruption?

And the guy Tom Mattzie is not even a member of the Clinton campaign. He's just a person they've consulted with. Is Trump responsible for the behavior of every person he consults with?
Where the heck is Hillary Clinton?

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