dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

I remember watching this game. Rose was a warrior, hit a crazy off balance three to win the game. Should be noted he shot 10-26 though.

He's not the most efficient player. But I do feel the way he breaks down the defense and opens the floor will help the Knicks offense overall. He creates havoc in the paint and I'd bet he makes others more efficient because of that. I'm sure the analytics guys will say there's a stat for that, but I sort of doubt there's a stat that accurately reflects that.

no. his passes are most often made while in midair, a big no-no. the reason is that the mid-air passes will most often lack the timing, touch, and accuracy that are necessary for the recipient to be in rhythm to shoot. marbury and a host of other so-called "scoring point guards" hurt their teams in precisely this manner. placing the burden on the shooter to make a shot when that shooter has just received a poorly-delivered pass, requiring him to get out of any rhythm, is why the fg percentages will necessarily go down.

Maybe... we're both talking about eye test things without stats to back them up. I think we'll just have to wait and see how this collection of players fits together on the court.

Would you rather have a 27 yr old former MVP, injury prone and jumps when he passes....But still demands double teams and breaks down any NBA defense.

or

A pg approaching 40, who couldn't even crack the starting rotation on an international team. Jose didn't jump and pass mid flight....So based on that one skill, sounds like some fans rather have Jose back! No wonder it's so hard to satisfy knick fans......They all over the place. Some fans just search all day for all the biggest negatives on the team......But that negative tunnel vision can cause us to lack the vision of Phils strategy. To win now....and win later.

Rose jumps and pass
Jose doesn't jump and pass

By this theory, Jose would've been the better player for us. Too bad nobody (Noah, Lee, Jennings....) would've been here if we still had Jose.

You're setting up a straw man argument here. Why? Is that necessary? Of course I'd rather have Rose on a one year audition than be stuck with Calderon. I am saying don't set your expectations too high with either Rose or Jennings. They add nothing defensively and neither make others around them better. If I am proven wrong I will be the first to admit it. But Rose and Jennings really won't move the needle as much as you wish and hope they will. How many wins do you predict?

They add nothing defensively? Are you saying Jennings and Rose are no better than Calderon on that side of the ball?

If you believe that Calderon is a better passer and defender than both Rose and Jennings? Then I'm wasting my time arguing that point. You'll have to wait and see for yourself, when the season starts. These guys play as much defense as every other PG in the league. The difference is every team will not target Rose and Jennings lack of defense like they did with Calderon all season.

I said neither of those things. More straw man stuff. You clearly have comprehension issues.

You said Rose jumps and passes.....Then you said his defense sucks. All I said was Jose doesn't jump and pass, so does that make him a better player than Rose? Based on your complaints, sounds like Jose would've been a better PG option over Rose or Jennings.

The question I have is who would you rather have, Rose and Jose? Most rational people would say Rose.....Rose is a stud....even on one leg.....And there's nothing anybody can do to prove it to you, until you watch for yourself.

I would take an injured Rose over Calderon anyday!

dude are you dense? look at what i wrote 8 posts above: i said

"of course i'd rather have rose on a one-year audition than be stuck with calderon."

how many wins do you predict with rose running the team? be brave.

#1 talk to me like you would in person, not a computer thug. You don't know me so I'm sure if we were, face to face, those brave "behind the computer" words would never come out your mouth.....Keep it civilized please. Or move on to someone else!

I never predicted wins in my life, so I have no clue....thats not my game....sorry. Plus I don't observe this team by just wins, because our win total have been pointless in the last 15 yrs. I look at chemistry, easy buckets, spacing, energy, intensity, defense, communication, etc...

Will Rose impact the team with more positive plays than negative? I don't care if we win zero games.....Thats what I'm looking at. This is the beginning phase of Phils rebuild.....I think he finally got it right. He's building for now and for the future. Something I wanted all the pass GMs to do......

I'll say this, we will have more wins than last year....Just by adding Rose by himself and not having Calderon......Thats at least plus 10 wins......Add in Noah (if healthy), will be the biggest impact out of all the new guys. As a defensive specialist myself, Noah is a player every championship team needs.

I'm hoping Rose and Noah grow stronger and healthier together. And we build on this solid 4 or 5 with Jennings....6 with Lee, who's also underrated. If these guys can stay together and stay healthy, we can do something special this year and years after. I don't just look at Rose as a 1 yr rental.....He's also a potential discounted version of a star PG who's only 27 with a chip on his shoulder. It's like waking up the sleepy giant. Rose has something to prove and I believe he will use the bright lights to do it. The home crowd will give him that energy he needs to be successful. That goes with Noah and the other guys. Noah is going to work the crowd like crazy....Home games should be nice. Might be time to buy a nose bleed seat.

1. Melo (will play until he's 40, as long as that jumper is money)
2. KP
3. Noah
4. Rose
5. Jennings
6. Lee
7. Thomas

Think about it.....you only use an 8 man rotation in the playoffs.....Thats a solid 7 right there, without counting the bench and international players who are also hungry and ready to prove they belong.....I don't care if Rose jumps and pass the entire season, he's still better than half the PG's in the league......And only getting better!

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

I remember watching this game. Rose was a warrior, hit a crazy off balance three to win the game. Should be noted he shot 10-26 though.

He's not the most efficient player. But I do feel the way he breaks down the defense and opens the floor will help the Knicks offense overall. He creates havoc in the paint and I'd bet he makes others more efficient because of that. I'm sure the analytics guys will say there's a stat for that, but I sort of doubt there's a stat that accurately reflects that.

no. his passes are most often made while in midair, a big no-no. the reason is that the mid-air passes will most often lack the timing, touch, and accuracy that are necessary for the recipient to be in rhythm to shoot. marbury and a host of other so-called "scoring point guards" hurt their teams in precisely this manner. placing the burden on the shooter to make a shot when that shooter has just received a poorly-delivered pass, requiring him to get out of any rhythm, is why the fg percentages will necessarily go down.

Maybe... we're both talking about eye test things without stats to back them up. I think we'll just have to wait and see how this collection of players fits together on the court.

Would you rather have a 27 yr old former MVP, injury prone and jumps when he passes....But still demands double teams and breaks down any NBA defense.

or

A pg approaching 40, who couldn't even crack the starting rotation on an international team. Jose didn't jump and pass mid flight....So based on that one skill, sounds like some fans rather have Jose back! No wonder it's so hard to satisfy knick fans......They all over the place. Some fans just search all day for all the biggest negatives on the team......But that negative tunnel vision can cause us to lack the vision of Phils strategy. To win now....and win later.

Rose jumps and pass
Jose doesn't jump and pass

By this theory, Jose would've been the better player for us. Too bad nobody (Noah, Lee, Jennings....) would've been here if we still had Jose.

You're setting up a straw man argument here. Why? Is that necessary? Of course I'd rather have Rose on a one year audition than be stuck with Calderon. I am saying don't set your expectations too high with either Rose or Jennings. They add nothing defensively and neither make others around them better. If I am proven wrong I will be the first to admit it. But Rose and Jennings really won't move the needle as much as you wish and hope they will. How many wins do you predict?

They add nothing defensively? Are you saying Jennings and Rose are no better than Calderon on that side of the ball?

If you believe that Calderon is a better passer and defender than both Rose and Jennings? Then I'm wasting my time arguing that point. You'll have to wait and see for yourself, when the season starts. These guys play as much defense as every other PG in the league. The difference is every team will not target Rose and Jennings lack of defense like they did with Calderon all season.

I said neither of those things. More straw man stuff. You clearly have comprehension issues.

You said Rose jumps and passes.....Then you said his defense sucks. All I said was Jose doesn't jump and pass, so does that make him a better player than Rose? Based on your complaints, sounds like Jose would've been a better PG option over Rose or Jennings.

The question I have is who would you rather have, Rose and Jose? Most rational people would say Rose.....Rose is a stud....even on one leg.....And there's nothing anybody can do to prove it to you, until you watch for yourself.

I would take an injured Rose over Calderon anyday!

dude are you dense? look at what i wrote 8 posts above: i said

"of course i'd rather have rose on a one-year audition than be stuck with calderon."

how many wins do you predict with rose running the team? be brave.

#1 talk to me like you would in person, not a computer thug. You don't know me so I'm sure if we were, face to face, those brave "behind the computer" words would never come out your mouth.....Keep it civilized please. Or move on to someone else!

I never predicted wins in my life, so I have no clue....thats not my game....sorry. Plus I don't observe this team by just wins, because our win total have been pointless in the last 15 yrs. I look at chemistry, easy buckets, spacing, energy, intensity, defense, communication, etc...

Will Rose impact the team with more positive plays than negative? I don't care if we win zero games.....Thats what I'm looking at. This is the beginning phase of Phils rebuild.....I think he finally got it right. He's building for now and for the future. Something I wanted all the pass GMs to do......

I'll say this, we will have more wins than last year....Just by adding Rose by himself and not having Calderon......Thats at least plus 10 wins......Add in Noah (if healthy), will be the biggest impact out of all the new guys. As a defensive specialist myself, Noah is a player every championship team needs.

I'm hoping Rose and Noah grow stronger and healthier together. And we build on this solid 4 or 5 with Jennings....6 with Lee, who's also underrated. If these guys can stay together and stay healthy, we can do something special this year and years after. I don't just look at Rose as a 1 yr rental.....He's also a potential discounted version of a star PG who's only 27 with a chip on his shoulder. It's like waking up the sleepy giant. Rose has something to prove and I believe he will use the bright lights to do it. The home crowd will give him that energy he needs to be successful. That goes with Noah and the other guys. Noah is going to work the crowd like crazy....Home games should be nice. Might be time to buy a nose bleed seat.

1. Melo (will play until he's 40, as long as that jumper is money)
2. KP
3. Noah
4. Rose
5. Jennings
6. Lee
7. Thomas

Think about it.....you only use an 8 man rotation in the playoffs.....Thats a solid 7 right there, without counting the bench and international players who are also hungry and ready to prove they belong.....I don't care if Rose jumps and pass the entire season, he's still better than half the PG's in the league......And only getting better!

I'm just tryin to understand how anyone can look at Rose and Lee in the backcourt with Melo and KP out there in motion with Noah in the high post whipping the ball around and not see how lethal that group can be.

Then you add BJ and LT off the bench and you've got a tight rotation of dependable players. Hornacek has fewer questions about his rotation going into the season. The bench is actually not bad at all when you look at the actual talent. They just don't have a lot of experience but they at least have talent.

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

I remember watching this game. Rose was a warrior, hit a crazy off balance three to win the game. Should be noted he shot 10-26 though.

He's not the most efficient player. But I do feel the way he breaks down the defense and opens the floor will help the Knicks offense overall. He creates havoc in the paint and I'd bet he makes others more efficient because of that. I'm sure the analytics guys will say there's a stat for that, but I sort of doubt there's a stat that accurately reflects that.

no. his passes are most often made while in midair, a big no-no. the reason is that the mid-air passes will most often lack the timing, touch, and accuracy that are necessary for the recipient to be in rhythm to shoot. marbury and a host of other so-called "scoring point guards" hurt their teams in precisely this manner. placing the burden on the shooter to make a shot when that shooter has just received a poorly-delivered pass, requiring him to get out of any rhythm, is why the fg percentages will necessarily go down.

Maybe... we're both talking about eye test things without stats to back them up. I think we'll just have to wait and see how this collection of players fits together on the court.

Would you rather have a 27 yr old former MVP, injury prone and jumps when he passes....But still demands double teams and breaks down any NBA defense.

or

A pg approaching 40, who couldn't even crack the starting rotation on an international team. Jose didn't jump and pass mid flight....So based on that one skill, sounds like some fans rather have Jose back! No wonder it's so hard to satisfy knick fans......They all over the place. Some fans just search all day for all the biggest negatives on the team......But that negative tunnel vision can cause us to lack the vision of Phils strategy. To win now....and win later.

Rose jumps and pass
Jose doesn't jump and pass

By this theory, Jose would've been the better player for us. Too bad nobody (Noah, Lee, Jennings....) would've been here if we still had Jose.

You're setting up a straw man argument here. Why? Is that necessary? Of course I'd rather have Rose on a one year audition than be stuck with Calderon. I am saying don't set your expectations too high with either Rose or Jennings. They add nothing defensively and neither make others around them better. If I am proven wrong I will be the first to admit it. But Rose and Jennings really won't move the needle as much as you wish and hope they will. How many wins do you predict?

They add nothing defensively? Are you saying Jennings and Rose are no better than Calderon on that side of the ball?

If you believe that Calderon is a better passer and defender than both Rose and Jennings? Then I'm wasting my time arguing that point. You'll have to wait and see for yourself, when the season starts. These guys play as much defense as every other PG in the league. The difference is every team will not target Rose and Jennings lack of defense like they did with Calderon all season.

I said neither of those things. More straw man stuff. You clearly have comprehension issues.

You said Rose jumps and passes.....Then you said his defense sucks. All I said was Jose doesn't jump and pass, so does that make him a better player than Rose? Based on your complaints, sounds like Jose would've been a better PG option over Rose or Jennings.

The question I have is who would you rather have, Rose and Jose? Most rational people would say Rose.....Rose is a stud....even on one leg.....And there's nothing anybody can do to prove it to you, until you watch for yourself.

I would take an injured Rose over Calderon anyday!

dude are you dense? look at what i wrote 8 posts above: i said

"of course i'd rather have rose on a one-year audition than be stuck with calderon."

how many wins do you predict with rose running the team? be brave.

#1 talk to me like you would in person, not a computer thug. You don't know me so I'm sure if we were, face to face, those brave "behind the computer" words would never come out your mouth.....Keep it civilized please. Or move on to someone else!

I never predicted wins in my life, so I have no clue....thats not my game....sorry. Plus I don't observe this team by just wins, because our win total have been pointless in the last 15 yrs. I look at chemistry, easy buckets, spacing, energy, intensity, defense, communication, etc...

Will Rose impact the team with more positive plays than negative? I don't care if we win zero games.....Thats what I'm looking at. This is the beginning phase of Phils rebuild.....I think he finally got it right. He's building for now and for the future. Something I wanted all the pass GMs to do......

I'll say this, we will have more wins than last year....Just by adding Rose by himself and not having Calderon......Thats at least plus 10 wins......Add in Noah (if healthy), will be the biggest impact out of all the new guys. As a defensive specialist myself, Noah is a player every championship team needs.

I'm hoping Rose and Noah grow stronger and healthier together. And we build on this solid 4 or 5 with Jennings....6 with Lee, who's also underrated. If these guys can stay together and stay healthy, we can do something special this year and years after. I don't just look at Rose as a 1 yr rental.....He's also a potential discounted version of a star PG who's only 27 with a chip on his shoulder. It's like waking up the sleepy giant. Rose has something to prove and I believe he will use the bright lights to do it. The home crowd will give him that energy he needs to be successful. That goes with Noah and the other guys. Noah is going to work the crowd like crazy....Home games should be nice. Might be time to buy a nose bleed seat.

1. Melo (will play until he's 40, as long as that jumper is money)
2. KP
3. Noah
4. Rose
5. Jennings
6. Lee
7. Thomas

Think about it.....you only use an 8 man rotation in the playoffs.....Thats a solid 7 right there, without counting the bench and international players who are also hungry and ready to prove they belong.....I don't care if Rose jumps and pass the entire season, he's still better than half the PG's in the league......And only getting better!

i am the height of civility in person, and quite loveable. but when i speak with someone in "real" life-- which most of the time is at work-- i am usually driving the conversation because, surprise surprise, i am the boss 100% of the time and answer to nobody. no brag just fact. so, since you are an executive like i am, you will understand me when i say that, when i have made myself clear several times-- as i have done here with you-- i make the other person know of my displeasure on no uncertain terms.

you ignored the very clear statements i made about rose and set up a straw man, which i regard as either obtuse or disrespectful, or that you're just playing games. there's no other explanation. show respect you get respect. give me static you get static. very simple with me. so please cut the shyte, man up to your not acknowledging what i wrote, and we're cool. otherwise you go into the ignore pile along with the crushalot, fishmike, jrodmc, actionjackson, cartman718 etc etc. these are all fvck mvnkey yahoos in my book.

as to the rest of your response: i agree with 87.5% of it. the 12.5% i don't agree with you on is rose adding 10 wins by himself. (and not to disagree with you since we hopefully just kissed and made up, but in a sense you are predicting the number of wins to at least 42, aren't you?) that's top-ten player in the league territory in my opinion, and also you can't dismiss that rose is regarded as little more than a "replacement level" player by most advanced stats.

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

I remember watching this game. Rose was a warrior, hit a crazy off balance three to win the game. Should be noted he shot 10-26 though.

He's not the most efficient player. But I do feel the way he breaks down the defense and opens the floor will help the Knicks offense overall. He creates havoc in the paint and I'd bet he makes others more efficient because of that. I'm sure the analytics guys will say there's a stat for that, but I sort of doubt there's a stat that accurately reflects that.

no. his passes are most often made while in midair, a big no-no. the reason is that the mid-air passes will most often lack the timing, touch, and accuracy that are necessary for the recipient to be in rhythm to shoot. marbury and a host of other so-called "scoring point guards" hurt their teams in precisely this manner. placing the burden on the shooter to make a shot when that shooter has just received a poorly-delivered pass, requiring him to get out of any rhythm, is why the fg percentages will necessarily go down.

Maybe... we're both talking about eye test things without stats to back them up. I think we'll just have to wait and see how this collection of players fits together on the court.

Would you rather have a 27 yr old former MVP, injury prone and jumps when he passes....But still demands double teams and breaks down any NBA defense.

or

A pg approaching 40, who couldn't even crack the starting rotation on an international team. Jose didn't jump and pass mid flight....So based on that one skill, sounds like some fans rather have Jose back! No wonder it's so hard to satisfy knick fans......They all over the place. Some fans just search all day for all the biggest negatives on the team......But that negative tunnel vision can cause us to lack the vision of Phils strategy. To win now....and win later.

Rose jumps and pass
Jose doesn't jump and pass

By this theory, Jose would've been the better player for us. Too bad nobody (Noah, Lee, Jennings....) would've been here if we still had Jose.

You're setting up a straw man argument here. Why? Is that necessary? Of course I'd rather have Rose on a one year audition than be stuck with Calderon. I am saying don't set your expectations too high with either Rose or Jennings. They add nothing defensively and neither make others around them better. If I am proven wrong I will be the first to admit it. But Rose and Jennings really won't move the needle as much as you wish and hope they will. How many wins do you predict?

They add nothing defensively? Are you saying Jennings and Rose are no better than Calderon on that side of the ball?

If you believe that Calderon is a better passer and defender than both Rose and Jennings? Then I'm wasting my time arguing that point. You'll have to wait and see for yourself, when the season starts. These guys play as much defense as every other PG in the league. The difference is every team will not target Rose and Jennings lack of defense like they did with Calderon all season.

I said neither of those things. More straw man stuff. You clearly have comprehension issues.

You said Rose jumps and passes.....Then you said his defense sucks. All I said was Jose doesn't jump and pass, so does that make him a better player than Rose? Based on your complaints, sounds like Jose would've been a better PG option over Rose or Jennings.

The question I have is who would you rather have, Rose and Jose? Most rational people would say Rose.....Rose is a stud....even on one leg.....And there's nothing anybody can do to prove it to you, until you watch for yourself.

I would take an injured Rose over Calderon anyday!

dude are you dense? look at what i wrote 8 posts above: i said

"of course i'd rather have rose on a one-year audition than be stuck with calderon."

how many wins do you predict with rose running the team? be brave.

#1 talk to me like you would in person, not a computer thug. You don't know me so I'm sure if we were, face to face, those brave "behind the computer" words would never come out your mouth.....Keep it civilized please. Or move on to someone else!

I never predicted wins in my life, so I have no clue....thats not my game....sorry. Plus I don't observe this team by just wins, because our win total have been pointless in the last 15 yrs. I look at chemistry, easy buckets, spacing, energy, intensity, defense, communication, etc...

Will Rose impact the team with more positive plays than negative? I don't care if we win zero games.....Thats what I'm looking at. This is the beginning phase of Phils rebuild.....I think he finally got it right. He's building for now and for the future. Something I wanted all the pass GMs to do......

I'll say this, we will have more wins than last year....Just by adding Rose by himself and not having Calderon......Thats at least plus 10 wins......Add in Noah (if healthy), will be the biggest impact out of all the new guys. As a defensive specialist myself, Noah is a player every championship team needs.

I'm hoping Rose and Noah grow stronger and healthier together. And we build on this solid 4 or 5 with Jennings....6 with Lee, who's also underrated. If these guys can stay together and stay healthy, we can do something special this year and years after. I don't just look at Rose as a 1 yr rental.....He's also a potential discounted version of a star PG who's only 27 with a chip on his shoulder. It's like waking up the sleepy giant. Rose has something to prove and I believe he will use the bright lights to do it. The home crowd will give him that energy he needs to be successful. That goes with Noah and the other guys. Noah is going to work the crowd like crazy....Home games should be nice. Might be time to buy a nose bleed seat.

1. Melo (will play until he's 40, as long as that jumper is money)
2. KP
3. Noah
4. Rose
5. Jennings
6. Lee
7. Thomas

Think about it.....you only use an 8 man rotation in the playoffs.....Thats a solid 7 right there, without counting the bench and international players who are also hungry and ready to prove they belong.....I don't care if Rose jumps and pass the entire season, he's still better than half the PG's in the league......And only getting better!

i am the height of civility in person, and quite loveable. but when i speak with someone in "real" life-- which most of the time is at work-- i am usually driving the conversation because, surprise surprise, i am the boss 100% of the time and answer to nobody. no brag just fact. so, since you are an executive like i am, you will understand me when i say that, when i have made myself clear several times-- as i have done here with you-- i make the other person know of my displeasure on no uncertain terms.

you ignored the very clear statements i made about rose and set up a straw man, which i regard as either obtuse or disrespectful, or that you're just playing games. there's no other explanation. show respect you get respect. give me static you get static. very simple with me. so please cut the shyte, man up to your not acknowledging what i wrote, and we're cool. otherwise you go into the ignore pile along with the crushalot, fishmike, jrodmc, actionjackson, cartman718 etc etc. these are all fvck mvnkey yahoos in my book.

as to the rest of your response: i agree with 87.5% of it. the 12.5% i don't agree with you on is rose adding 10 wins by himself. (and not to disagree with you since we hopefully just kissed and made up, but in a sense you are predicting the number of wins to at least 42, aren't you?) that's top-ten player in the league territory in my opinion, and also you can't dismiss that rose is regarded as little more than a "replacement level" player by most advanced stats.

pot...kettle.

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:pot...kettle.

lmao.. in the "real world" DK answers to nobody! I think your brilliant post fell on deaf ears as you appear to be in the "fvck mvnkey yahoos" ignore list. Classic!

i dont really respond to his posts anymore, unless he's specifically calling me out. he lives in his own world, which is fine. after interacting with him a few times on here, i realized he's not really interested in listening so why bother debating anything with him.

blkexec wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:pot...kettle.

lmao.. in the "real world" DK answers to nobody! I think your brilliant post fell on deaf ears as you appear to be in the "fvck mvnkey yahoos" ignore list. Classic!

i dont really respond to his posts anymore, unless he's specifically calling me out. he lives in his own world, which is fine. after interacting with him a few times on here, i realized he's not really interested in listening so why bother debating anything with him.

I guess I never paid attention to the friction among different posters. And for Martin to step in was eye opening. Thats why this site has been so successful. I hope I didn't rekindle that friction again. There's so many positives surrounding Knick fans right now, I don't know what to do with myself. For years, I've stood up to all the back lash from other fans, representing orange and blue regardless of our record. So when there is tension between fans, I usually look over it, because the real tension is with non knick fans, who I interact with all the time, since I live outside of NYC, with a potential move down to Dallas Texas.....Again, I will be Giants blue all day with a touch of Orange and Blue, while rocking a yankee blue.....

In DK's defense, he hasn't been the same poster the last few months that he was when he joined. His poor choice of words aside, there is a lot less Melo on the brain, and he's added more to the discussion IMO lately than he has taken away from it. Hope this carries into the season.

Also hope we don't once again have a small faction holding whatever views they might have (positive or negative) spamming threads, trying to shut down discussions. This board works when its more about exchanging ideas, and less about planting flags.

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

I remember watching this game. Rose was a warrior, hit a crazy off balance three to win the game. Should be noted he shot 10-26 though.

He's not the most efficient player. But I do feel the way he breaks down the defense and opens the floor will help the Knicks offense overall. He creates havoc in the paint and I'd bet he makes others more efficient because of that. I'm sure the analytics guys will say there's a stat for that, but I sort of doubt there's a stat that accurately reflects that.

no. his passes are most often made while in midair, a big no-no. the reason is that the mid-air passes will most often lack the timing, touch, and accuracy that are necessary for the recipient to be in rhythm to shoot. marbury and a host of other so-called "scoring point guards" hurt their teams in precisely this manner. placing the burden on the shooter to make a shot when that shooter has just received a poorly-delivered pass, requiring him to get out of any rhythm, is why the fg percentages will necessarily go down.

Maybe... we're both talking about eye test things without stats to back them up. I think we'll just have to wait and see how this collection of players fits together on the court.

Would you rather have a 27 yr old former MVP, injury prone and jumps when he passes....But still demands double teams and breaks down any NBA defense.

or

A pg approaching 40, who couldn't even crack the starting rotation on an international team. Jose didn't jump and pass mid flight....So based on that one skill, sounds like some fans rather have Jose back! No wonder it's so hard to satisfy knick fans......They all over the place. Some fans just search all day for all the biggest negatives on the team......But that negative tunnel vision can cause us to lack the vision of Phils strategy. To win now....and win later.

Rose jumps and pass
Jose doesn't jump and pass

By this theory, Jose would've been the better player for us. Too bad nobody (Noah, Lee, Jennings....) would've been here if we still had Jose.

you can see who actually understands the game (or any athletic competition for that matter) by some of these comments. Nobody is calling Rose the big fundamental. He is a big upgrade over Jose (although some of the stat monkeys actually think the Knicks got worse). He's an athletic scoring PG who gets into the paint at will. We will see if this translates into a better Knick team or not.

I'm convinced this team will be better. Cuz it's not just Rose but how all the new players fit with each other and with Hornacek's schemes. The way Rose plays fits how Hornacek wants to play. He can push the ball but also run PnR. Lee, Melo and KP can knock down jumpers off the catch. Rose and Noah already have great chemistry, which gets overlooked. In every way this is a better roster.

You keep bringing up fit like ours a foregone conclusion. Thread after thread, I see the same thing. How well they fit and if they fit will only be determined in the regular season. It's great to project what you believe in, but it's not an established fact.

Projecting how a team fits together can never be a fact.....Because it's in the future and the future is never promised! But what he's saying is there's a high probability that they will fit together, based on the parts that phil put together, and the history between players like Rose and Noah or Hornacek and fast guards....Thats his opinion, based on historical data, so I can't say he's wrong or right, it's just a fans opinion. I see nothing wrong with that. Same can be said about rose and noah haters, who point to their historical injury resume, and use that historical fact to project the future.

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:pot...kettle.

lmao.. in the "real world" DK answers to nobody! I think your brilliant post fell on deaf ears as you appear to be in the "fvck mvnkey yahoos" ignore list. Classic!

i dont really respond to his posts anymore, unless he's specifically calling me out. he lives in his own world, which is fine. after interacting with him a few times on here, i realized he's not really interested in listening so why bother debating anything with him.

I guess I never paid attention to the friction among different posters. And for Martin to step in was eye opening. Thats why this site has been so successful. I hope I didn't rekindle that friction again. There's so many positives surrounding Knick fans right now, I don't know what to do with myself. For years, I've stood up to all the back lash from other fans, representing orange and blue regardless of our record. So when there is tension between fans, I usually look over it, because the real tension is with non knick fans, who I interact with all the time, since I live outside of NYC, with a potential move down to Dallas Texas.....Again, I will be Giants blue all day with a touch of Orange and Blue, while rocking a yankee blue.....

In DK's defense, he hasn't been the same poster the last few months that he was when he joined. His poor choice of words aside, there is a lot less Melo on the brain, and he's added more to the discussion IMO lately than he has taken away from it. Hope this carries into the season.

Also hope we don't once again have a small faction holding whatever views they might have (positive or negative) spamming threads, trying to shut down discussions. This board works when its more about exchanging ideas, and less about planting flags.

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:pot...kettle.

lmao.. in the "real world" DK answers to nobody! I think your brilliant post fell on deaf ears as you appear to be in the "fvck mvnkey yahoos" ignore list. Classic!

i dont really respond to his posts anymore, unless he's specifically calling me out. he lives in his own world, which is fine. after interacting with him a few times on here, i realized he's not really interested in listening so why bother debating anything with him.

I guess I never paid attention to the friction among different posters. And for Martin to step in was eye opening. Thats why this site has been so successful. I hope I didn't rekindle that friction again. There's so many positives surrounding Knick fans right now, I don't know what to do with myself. For years, I've stood up to all the back lash from other fans, representing orange and blue regardless of our record. So when there is tension between fans, I usually look over it, because the real tension is with non knick fans, who I interact with all the time, since I live outside of NYC, with a potential move down to Dallas Texas.....Again, I will be Giants blue all day with a touch of Orange and Blue, while rocking a yankee blue.....

In DK's defense, he hasn't been the same poster the last few months that he was when he joined. His poor choice of words aside, there is a lot less Melo on the brain, and he's added more to the discussion IMO lately than he has taken away from it. Hope this carries into the season.

Also hope we don't once again have a small faction holding whatever views they might have (positive or negative) spamming threads, trying to shut down discussions. This board works when its more about exchanging ideas, and less about planting flags.

only better basketball will help. If the Knicks are stinking the anti-Melo crowd plants the flags, digs in and there you have it. When its good they shut up or go away. When its bad they come back. All the quieting that happened during the 54 win season is unleashed as "we knew this was fools gold all along."

Its simply a better team with more talent... but until there is quality hoops being played its a long offseason of Chuck's Melo posts and DK reminding anyone he talks to that he's the boss and everyone else is dense with reading comprehension.

Positive or negative its going to be an exciting year. Like blkexec I am pumped because of how the roster is built and regardless of win totals there is also great upside and plenty of youth to this roster. Will they gel? Only time will prove but I cant wait to watch

For me, there's only 1 real reason to watch.

[IMG_block] http://static.businessinsider.com/image/564c966311231437018b612a/image.gif [/IMG_block]

[IMG_block] https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*8Idff14qVAuLF-7DwFV2tw.gif [/IMG_block]

[IMG_block] https://media.giphy.com/media/13dzKxmV1XCCQM/giphy.gif [/IMG_block]

Must see TV.

Everything and everyone else is merely a subplot until he gets much better teammates. He's the reason for all the nationally televised games more than Melo, Rose, Noah, etc.

Most people outside of knick fans, don't even know KP's name......All I hear them say is, yall got a nice young tall whit dude. But everybody know's Rose, Noah, Melo by name. Thats the reason non knick fans will be interested to watch any knick game next season. This year is hopefully when KP will change that and make a name for himself (outside of Knicks fan nation). If he balls out, even with a loaded team, then people will know him by first name......Right now, he's still a sleeper. Rose and Melo are proven, and they have their own fans.....especially Rose. But I usually hear all the non knick fan discussion, since I live outside of NY. And fans love Rose.....They all say he's injury prone, but Rose will be part of the reason why people will watch this team.......Real true knick fans see KP as the future and will be watching him closely.

ChuckBuck wrote:

blkexec wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:pot...kettle.

lmao.. in the "real world" DK answers to nobody! I think your brilliant post fell on deaf ears as you appear to be in the "fvck mvnkey yahoos" ignore list. Classic!

i dont really respond to his posts anymore, unless he's specifically calling me out. he lives in his own world, which is fine. after interacting with him a few times on here, i realized he's not really interested in listening so why bother debating anything with him.

I guess I never paid attention to the friction among different posters. And for Martin to step in was eye opening. Thats why this site has been so successful. I hope I didn't rekindle that friction again. There's so many positives surrounding Knick fans right now, I don't know what to do with myself. For years, I've stood up to all the back lash from other fans, representing orange and blue regardless of our record. So when there is tension between fans, I usually look over it, because the real tension is with non knick fans, who I interact with all the time, since I live outside of NYC, with a potential move down to Dallas Texas.....Again, I will be Giants blue all day with a touch of Orange and Blue, while rocking a yankee blue.....

In DK's defense, he hasn't been the same poster the last few months that he was when he joined. His poor choice of words aside, there is a lot less Melo on the brain, and he's added more to the discussion IMO lately than he has taken away from it. Hope this carries into the season.

Also hope we don't once again have a small faction holding whatever views they might have (positive or negative) spamming threads, trying to shut down discussions. This board works when its more about exchanging ideas, and less about planting flags.

only better basketball will help. If the Knicks are stinking the anti-Melo crowd plants the flags, digs in and there you have it. When its good they shut up or go away. When its bad they come back. All the quieting that happened during the 54 win season is unleashed as "we knew this was fools gold all along."

Its simply a better team with more talent... but until there is quality hoops being played its a long offseason of Chuck's Melo posts and DK reminding anyone he talks to that he's the boss and everyone else is dense with reading comprehension.

Positive or negative its going to be an exciting year. Like blkexec I am pumped because of how the roster is built and regardless of win totals there is also great upside and plenty of youth to this roster. Will they gel? Only time will prove but I cant wait to watch

For me, there's only 1 real reason to watch.

[IMG_block] http://static.businessinsider.com/image/564c966311231437018b612a/image.gif [/IMG_block]

[IMG_block] https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*8Idff14qVAuLF-7DwFV2tw.gif [/IMG_block]

[IMG_block] https://media.giphy.com/media/13dzKxmV1XCCQM/giphy.gif [/IMG_block]

Must see TV.

Everything and everyone else is merely a subplot until he gets much better teammates. He's the reason for all the nationally televised games more than Melo, Rose, Noah, etc.

Most people outside of knick fans, don't even know KP's name......All I hear them say is, yall got a nice young tall whit dude. But everybody know's Rose, Noah, Melo by name. Thats the reason non knick fans will be interested to watch any knick game next season. This year is hopefully when KP will change that and make a name for himself (outside of Knicks fan nation). If he balls out, even with a loaded team, then people will know him by first name......Right now, he's still a sleeper. Rose and Melo are proven, and they have their own fans.....especially Rose. But I usually hear all the non knick fan discussion, since I live outside of NY. And fans love Rose.....They all say he's injury prone, but Rose will be part of the reason why people will watch this team.......Real true knick fans see KP as the future and will be watching him closely.

Uhm, you must be talking to the wrong people. People know his name....

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/15518210/stephen-curry-golden-state-warriors-finishes-nba-best-selling-jersey

Curry's was also the best-selling jersey in every U.S. state except Ohio and Oklahoma, according to Fanatics, the largest licensed sports retailer in the country.

Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant, in his final season, finished second in jersey sales, followed by Cleveland Cavaliers forward LeBron James.

New York Knicks forward Kristaps Porzingis finished fourth, the highest season-ending spot on the jersey list for a rookie since James and Carmelo Anthony finished atop the jersey rankings at the end of the 2003-04 season.

Rose is going to be very famous both in New York and outside it, more than ever it looks like. He should be especially popular with women:

http://nypost.com/2016/08/31/testimony-reveals-derrick-rose-pressured-gang-rape-accuser-into-having-a-foursome/

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Between Noah, Melo, Rose, Jennings all capable of getting 4-5 ast a game each. Rose doesn't really have to focus on creating for everyone all the time though, and he has a lot of space to work with. He has played majority with 2 lane blockers.

With the spacing KP, Melo, Lee could provide from the 4-2 a high energy high IQ player like Noah could have a field day as well. Teams have to worry about Rose penetration to go with the shooters and then Noah's clean up capabilities & passing. Noah has not really played with this much spacing from the forward positions before always being paired up with the Boozer's, Gibson's, Gasol's. Though sure he has played mins with stretches like Dunleavy and Mirotic. But KP alleviates him with spacing and defense length.

Between the potential spacing, ball movement, penetration and front court length offensively and defensively around the rim. We have a lot of elements in place.

EXACTLY!!! This is Phil's best roster in terms of how the parts fit. Also of just as great importance was Phil bringing in Hornacek a coach that is about as close to what he hoped for in Steve Kerr as you can get. So much so that Kerr stole plays from Hornacek and was inspired by how he coached the Suns. Kerr wanted to hire Hornacek to replace Walton. So all together this makes a lot of sense, the players and the coach. Hornacek wants tons of guard penetration and we know Rose can do that. Hornacek wants lots of 3's and Melo, KP and Lee can do that. Hornacek wants lots of PnR and Rose, Noah and KP can do that as can Melo and Lee. Then you add Jennings to the mix and there should be a lot of capability.

How Tyson excelled due to the spacing provided by moving Melo to the 4. There is a good probability Noah is able to excel the same. Noah is more skilled then Tyson though. I look forward to seeing how Noah's high energy and high IQ play will produce. He averaged 3.8 ast in 21.9 mins from the center position last yr in a down yr.

Same thing with Rose, the spacing for penetration will be there. There will be times when KP slides to the 5 and all 4 teammates on the court with him can bang the 3. That has to be heaven for him coming from Chi's lineups. We will see what Rose and JH are about to come up with out of this potential.

Then there is KP. With Rose penetration, Melo's gravity effect, and bodies having to be put on Noah as well as Noah's ability to find players with the ball in his hands. KP can come out clean out of all this. Between open 3s and finishing opportunities as the lane opens up as teams scramble off penetrations and the havoc that Noah is creating. He can also be featured more as the go to guy in PNR with the 2nd unit to bolster them which will be his development for his arsenal. All while providing twin tower defensive length with Noah or on the offensive glass.