Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NykInsider/status/765991401611866114

Sangfroid wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Just saw this on twitter.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NykInsider/status/765991401611866114

Impressive tweet. The question going forward is, "Is he going to pass the ball to anyone?"

Having had a long time now to process this trade, I agree with the tweet -- I really can't believe we went from Jose Calderon to Derrick Rose either, even a Rose that may not be quite 100%. It's a huge upgrade, it really is. And I love the trade considering what we gave up -- we didn't overpay at all in my estimation, in fact WE were even the ones who got back a pick for a change (w/o giving up one) and added Holiday who I think is a rotation SG for us. We even covered ourselves at C with Noah and Willy H, a guy I'm personally very high on. Rose expires if it doesn't work out + his presence helped recruit some other good players..I mean seriously, there's little to no downside here. When we chose to resign Melo and build a team around him for the one more sustained run he probably has in him at near top performance, this is the type of offseason you envisioned Phil putting together. And after thinking it all through for awhile now, I think it was the right call and I'm getting pretty damn pumped up thinking about the possibilities and how good this could real be if things go well.

Just looking at the highlight reel linked to the tweet, I think D Rose is the type of guy you just give the ball to and let him do his thing. Let the man make plays. Can't impose any restrictions on him and his game I'm thinking (i.e. don't try to make him a pass-first guy, someone who dumps the ball off and runs to the corner, etc.). He's a special talent and I think he gets the year to show what we can do. I wanna hit the ground running with Rose. Bam--right from game 1! To me this is Rose's team now -- everyone else needs to play off him, including Melo and KP. I think that's how this should work. Rose is a scorer but he'll get everyone involved. He knows he can't do it all himself. I think he understands he's got a talented group here, hence the 'super team' comments that may have been a little misguided, but **** man, I love the confidence! How can you not? Esp. love how he's not backing off that statement.. I just feel if we try tinkering with his game, try to make him into something he's not--that's the wrong approach. Hopefully he's 100% or damn close to it. If so, we got a heck of a player here. One of the league's best. Even at < 100%, he's still a good player and in his prime mind you. Name the last PG we had better than Derrick Rose. I've been watching this team religiously since the early 80s pre Ewing and I can't think of anyone. That's how special this guy is when healthy. The man was looking good at times last season and the reports of how he's looked physically this offseason + his own confidence is all very encouraging. Gotta let him be him, though. I think that's the key. That's how we'll get the full effect and I want the full effect of D Rose. To me we've got one season to evaluate this experiment and make this work. Last thing I wanna see if Horn trying to change his game, make him a pass-first guy etc., and see that fail for 30 games, then say, OK F it--let's take the shackles off and let him be him. No way. Don't waste 30 games like that, you know what I mean? I dunno -- make any sense? What do you guys think?

CrushAlot wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Just saw this on twitter.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NykInsider/status/765991401611866114

Impressive tweet. The question going forward is, "Is he going to pass the ball to anyone?"

Having had a long time now to process this trade, I agree with the tweet -- I really can't believe we went from Jose Calderon to Derrick Rose either, even a Rose that may not be quite 100%. It's a huge upgrade, it really is. And I love the trade considering what we gave up -- we didn't overpay at all in my estimation, in fact WE were even the ones who got back a pick for a change (w/o giving up one) and added Holiday who I think is a rotation SG for us. We even covered ourselves at C with Noah and Willy H, a guy I'm personally very high on. Rose expires if it doesn't work out + his presence helped recruit some other good players..I mean seriously, there's little to no downside here. When we chose to resign Melo and build a team around him for the one more sustained run he probably has in him at near top performance, this is the type of offseason you envisioned Phil putting together. And after thinking it all through for awhile now, I think it was the right call and I'm getting pretty damn pumped up thinking about the possibilities and how good this could real be if things go well.

Just looking at the highlight reel linked to the tweet, I think D Rose is the type of guy you just give the ball to and let him do his thing. Let the man make plays. Can't impose any restrictions on him and his game I'm thinking (i.e. don't try to make him a pass-first guy, someone who dumps the ball off and runs to the corner, etc.). He's a special talent and I think he gets the year to show what we can do. Bam--right from game 1! To me this is Rose's team now -- everyone else needs to play off him, including Melo and KP. I think that's how this should work. Rose is a scorer but he'll get everyone involved--he knows he can't do it all himself. I think he understands he's got a talented group here, hence the 'super team' comments that may have been a little misguided, but **** man, I love the confidence! How can you not? Esp. love how he's not backing off that statement.. I just feel if we try tinkering with his game, try to make him into something he's not--that's the wrong approach. Hopefully he's 100% or damn close to it. If so, we got a heck of a player here. One of the league's best. Even at < 100%, he's still a good player and in his prime mind you. Name the last PG we had better than Derrick Rose. I've been watching this team religiously since the early 80s pre Ewing and I can't think of anyone. That's how special this guy is when healthy. The man was looking good at times last season and the reports of how he's looked physically this offseason + his own confidence are very encouraging. Gotta let him be him, though. I think that's the key. That's how we'll get the full effect and I want the full effect of D Rose. To me we've got one season to evaluate this experiment and make this work. Last thing I wanna see if Horn trying to change his game, make him a pass-first guy etc., and see that fail for 30 games, then say, OK F it--let's take the shackles off and let him be him. No way. Don't waste 30 games like that, you know what I mean? I dunno -- make any sense? What do you guys think?

Totally agree. Great post. I can't wait for the season.

Me too, man. In the meantime I'll enjoy the Yanks' youth movement but the Knicks are super intriguing coming up this year. Even if it doesn't all work out 100%, I like what they did here. Again, we chose to keep Melo so what they did makes sense. Hearing a lot of how we overpaid for FAs, Rose and Noah are made of glass, it'll never work...Not gonna lie, I can't say I haven't thought those things too at times, but man what if it does work? Can you imagine??? It very well could. Very exciting. Can't wait for it to start!!

Finestrg wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Just saw this on twitter.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NykInsider/status/765991401611866114

Impressive tweet. The question going forward is, "Is he going to pass the ball to anyone?"

Having had a long time now to process this trade, I agree with the tweet -- I really can't believe we went from Jose Calderon to Derrick Rose either, even a Rose that may not be quite 100%. It's a huge upgrade, it really is. And I love the trade considering what we gave up -- we didn't overpay at all in my estimation, in fact WE were even the ones who got back a pick for a change (w/o giving up one) and added Holiday who I think is a rotation SG for us. We even covered ourselves at C with Noah and Willy H, a guy I'm personally very high on. Rose expires if it doesn't work out + his presence helped recruit some other good players..I mean seriously, there's little to no downside here. When we chose to resign Melo and build a team around him for the one more sustained run he probably has in him at near top performance, this is the type of offseason you envisioned Phil putting together. And after thinking it all through for awhile now, I think it was the right call and I'm getting pretty damn pumped up thinking about the possibilities and how good this could real be if things go well.

Just looking at the highlight reel linked to the tweet, I think D Rose is the type of guy you just give the ball to and let him do his thing. Let the man make plays. Can't impose any restrictions on him and his game I'm thinking (i.e. don't try to make him a pass-first guy, someone who dumps the ball off and runs to the corner, etc.). He's a special talent and I think he gets the year to show what we can do. I wanna hit the ground running with Rose. Bam--right from game 1! To me this is Rose's team now -- everyone else needs to play off him, including Melo and KP. I think that's how this should work. Rose is a scorer but he'll get everyone involved. He knows he can't do it all himself. I think he understands he's got a talented group here, hence the 'super team' comments that may have been a little misguided, but **** man, I love the confidence! How can you not? Esp. love how he's not backing off that statement.. I just feel if we try tinkering with his game, try to make him into something he's not--that's the wrong approach. Hopefully he's 100% or damn close to it. If so, we got a heck of a player here. One of the league's best. Even at < 100%, he's still a good player and in his prime mind you. Name the last PG we had better than Derrick Rose. I've been watching this team religiously since the early 80s pre Ewing and I can't think of anyone. That's how special this guy is when healthy. The man was looking good at times last season and the reports of how he's looked physically this offseason + his own confidence is all very encouraging. Gotta let him be him, though. I think that's the key. That's how we'll get the full effect and I want the full effect of D Rose. To me we've got one season to evaluate this experiment and make this work. Last thing I wanna see if Horn trying to change his game, make him a pass-first guy etc., and see that fail for 30 games, then say, OK F it--let's take the shackles off and let him be him. No way. Don't waste 30 games like that, you know what I mean? I dunno -- make any sense? What do you guys think?

i think your perspective is really sad and woefully misguided. "let rose be rose" is a recipe for underachievement with the added punishing of kp6 and his development trajectory. kp6 is the most important knickerbocker and this season should be focussed on allowing him to be all he can be.

you want rose to have a higher usage rate than kp6? you want rose to take 17-18 shots a game with a 50%TS? also, "letting rose be rose" is what brought about his injuries. the violent torsion his legs go through is due to his being allowed to palm the ball to change direction, and this has resulted in meniscus tears and an acl tear.

what you really want is for rose to somehow evolve into tony parker, someone who eventually managed to maintain his dribble after a few somewhat reckless seasons, developed his off hand and kept his head up, who took closer to 12 shots a game, and who played defense with desire.

as it is, rose plays a losing brand of basketball and doesn't make others around him better. so why advocate "letting rose be rose" then? it does not work.

below is a link to a side by side comparison of parker and rose. i encourage all students of the game to look at it carefully:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=rosede01&p2=parketo01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

EnySpree wrote:Rose has a horrible injury history, but the guy is still a top player when healthy. You have to give him that. He didn't all of a sudden become worse than Calderon. We had Galloway acting as the primary back up with Grant having a tough time learning the nba game at first. This year we have Brandon Jennings backing up Rose, lol... we are heading and shoulders better at point guard. There is no debating that fact regardless of injury concerns.

Nalod wrote:A Rose by any other name........

I disagree by letting him be who he is.....But, why not let the kid evolve as should most great players. If he is great then his true defining moment as a 22 year old MVP is to become more than what he was, and sometimes "Less is More"......
I agree, the kind of game he has had is a leg killer. Kyrie Irving has to come to grips with it, as did CP3. Deron Williams got hit too. Long list of great PG's who got cut down. Tiny Archibald and Phil Ford. To a far less extent, Ray Felton's body could not hold up to his youthful game.
Steve Nash is a great example of a guy who knew when to turn on the jets and then also preserve the thrust. His outside shot gave him the ability to get by his man because he must be guarded everywhere. I don't know all of Rose's weakness' but lets just say the ability is there and as such he must evolve with strong fundamentals to refine his game. KObe did it as did Jordan. If phil can get in his head and help him, there is a better Derrick Rose and one that could perhaps stay healthier and be a better player. Maybe his scoring numbers will not come all the way back.
Lets look at the tools he has to play with also? KP6? If rose is gushing about "superteam" then it starts with him. How many 7'3 guys have the tools on offense and can protect the rim? And, we have a hyper athletic 5 so he does not have to carry the heavy load (Pray for his health). Then, Olympic Melo who im guessing now need not carry as heavy a load. Does Melo need to grind it to the rim often? maybe at his age no, but for all melo is not, he is one of the premier shooters in the league and in some situations he can be the third option!!!

1. Rose creates if the opportunity presents. Then go into offense.
2 Ball should go into KP
3 Then to Melo.........
4 Courtney Lee is the 4th option and can shoot.

Nothing guaranteed here, just fun to speculate and the intrigue of this potential. Knicks are interesting. That's a start.

As for Jose..........Who cares where he played on the Olympic team. Maybe he really did not want to play and was there as deep back up just in case and to assist with others.
Why kick him down, or even speculate as to why he was riding the pine. He is supporting his country on his own time. Personally, I like the guy and don't get the hate on him. Nobody really expected him to start or thought he should. IN fact, that is his assessment as well!!!! He was our best PG is a reflection on others who did not step up or knicks inability to get a better player, or the fact we were being patient. It paid off with the potential we got in Derrick Rose.

The trade at so many levels made sense. Basically would any of us have a problem if we "Traded" RoPez for Willy and Noah straight up? Right there is an upgrade at the position. With KP6 emerging, Ropez minutes could have falling a bit.

"Small ball" could have KP6 at the 5 and melo at the 4.

a sober and fair post. hell may be icing up a tinge.

EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Rose has a horrible injury history, but the guy is still a top player when healthy. You have to give him that. He didn't all of a sudden become worse than Calderon. We had Galloway acting as the primary back up with Grant having a tough time learning the nba game at first. This year we have Brandon Jennings backing up Rose, lol... we are heading and shoulders better at point guard. There is no debating that fact regardless of injury concerns.

nobody is denying we upgraded our guard position. However if you are expecting 2012 Rose then you are setting yourself up for disappointment. He is still a good player and he will help us if healthy

That's the the other thing. Rose was 21 when he won the mvp... at 27 he will never turn back the clock on being 21. He's still a good player.

dk7th wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Just saw this on twitter.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NykInsider/status/765991401611866114

Impressive tweet. The question going forward is, "Is he going to pass the ball to anyone?"

Having had a long time now to process this trade, I agree with the tweet -- I really can't believe we went from Jose Calderon to Derrick Rose either, even a Rose that may not be quite 100%. It's a huge upgrade, it really is. And I love the trade considering what we gave up -- we didn't overpay at all in my estimation, in fact WE were even the ones who got back a pick for a change (w/o giving up one) and added Holiday who I think is a rotation SG for us. We even covered ourselves at C with Noah and Willy H, a guy I'm personally very high on. Rose expires if it doesn't work out + his presence helped recruit some other good players..I mean seriously, there's little to no downside here. When we chose to resign Melo and build a team around him for the one more sustained run he probably has in him at near top performance, this is the type of offseason you envisioned Phil putting together. And after thinking it all through for awhile now, I think it was the right call and I'm getting pretty damn pumped up thinking about the possibilities and how good this could real be if things go well.

Just looking at the highlight reel linked to the tweet, I think D Rose is the type of guy you just give the ball to and let him do his thing. Let the man make plays. Can't impose any restrictions on him and his game I'm thinking (i.e. don't try to make him a pass-first guy, someone who dumps the ball off and runs to the corner, etc.). He's a special talent and I think he gets the year to show what we can do. I wanna hit the ground running with Rose. Bam--right from game 1! To me this is Rose's team now -- everyone else needs to play off him, including Melo and KP. I think that's how this should work. Rose is a scorer but he'll get everyone involved. He knows he can't do it all himself. I think he understands he's got a talented group here, hence the 'super team' comments that may have been a little misguided, but **** man, I love the confidence! How can you not? Esp. love how he's not backing off that statement.. I just feel if we try tinkering with his game, try to make him into something he's not--that's the wrong approach. Hopefully he's 100% or damn close to it. If so, we got a heck of a player here. One of the league's best. Even at < 100%, he's still a good player and in his prime mind you. Name the last PG we had better than Derrick Rose. I've been watching this team religiously since the early 80s pre Ewing and I can't think of anyone. That's how special this guy is when healthy. The man was looking good at times last season and the reports of how he's looked physically this offseason + his own confidence is all very encouraging. Gotta let him be him, though. I think that's the key. That's how we'll get the full effect and I want the full effect of D Rose. To me we've got one season to evaluate this experiment and make this work. Last thing I wanna see if Horn trying to change his game, make him a pass-first guy etc., and see that fail for 30 games, then say, OK F it--let's take the shackles off and let him be him. No way. Don't waste 30 games like that, you know what I mean? I dunno -- make any sense? What do you guys think?

i think your perspective is really sad and woefully misguided. "let rose be rose" is a recipe for underachievement with the added punishing of kp6 and his development trajectory. kp6 is the most important knickerbocker and this season should be focussed on allowing him to be all he can be.

you want rose to have a higher usage rate than kp6? you want rose to take 17-18 shots a game with a 50%TS? also, "letting rose be rose" is what brought about his injuries. the violent torsion his legs go through is due to his being allowed to palm the ball to change direction, and this has resulted in meniscus tears and an acl tear.

what you really want is for rose to somehow evolve into tony parker, someone who eventually managed to maintain his dribble after a few somewhat reckless seasons, developed his off hand and kept his head up, who took closer to 12 shots a game, and who played defense with desire.

as it is, rose plays a losing brand of basketball and doesn't make others around him better. so why advocate "letting rose be rose" then? it does not work.

below is a link to a side by side comparison of parker and rose. i encourage all students of the game to look at it carefully:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=rosede01&p2=parketo01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

DRose has to play his game and to a certain extent he's adjusted his game to be a little less violent in how he makes his attack moves. That's understandable for a guy that had his injury history. He's much less reckless in how he throws his body around and changes direction. He's still making similar quick change of direction moves but just a touch more under control and less violent. It seems that you look at his game and only see the things you want to see rather than appreciate how he can actually help the team.

You're horribly biased against Rose for some reason. Accusing Rose of possibly limiting KP's game rather than helping KP and all his teammates to get better looks. Rose is not CP3, not Parker and he doesn't have to be in order to be effective. I think Hornacek will help Rose to play some of his best basketball. Along with all the talent around him I expect Rose to have one of his best assist seasons as well.