dk7th wrote:

nadavshomron wrote:I belive that Derrick is going to put up numbers(if healthy) for Him to get a big contract
It should not be a MVP numbers (he can't do it)
but 19-18 points per game I can see him get and its importent for Him
the key for Him is to get the Knicks deep into the playoffs ( at least a long 2nd round series)

In the best scenario:
MELO 23-22 PPG
DROSE 18-19 PPG
KP 17-16 PPG
LEE 12-11 PPG

if he plays FOR his contract, instead of playing FOR the knicks he will be instrumental in the knicks underachieving yet again. the problem with your perspective is that with deeply-flawed players like rose the two things are in fact mutually exclusive, especially when you factor in how godawful a defender he is. the recipe for success for derrick rose this season as a knickerbocker is as follows:

1) taking an average of 12 shots a game, only good shots. those 5 extra bad shots should be going to kp6 and melo.
2) his usage should be well below 25%. 28% is too high for his lack of efficiency, and 4 or 5 fewer percentage points would indicate his ability to properly share the ball
3) he should average 6-7 assists a game.

if he achieves these numbers he will be doing his job!

you also mention a deep playoff run. from your perspective, if it turns out he is somehow permitted to play FOR his contract and puts up the numbers you think he should-- utter madness in my opinion-- then what is your measure of success? conference finals appearance?

the recipe for success for rose is
1) taking an average of 12 shots a game, only good shots. those 5 extra bad shots should be going to kp6 and melo.
2) his usage should be well below 25%. 28% is too high for his lack of efficiency, and 4 or 5 fewer percentage points would indicate his ability to properly share the ball
3) he should average 6-7 assists a game.
if he achieves these numbers he will be doing his job!

nadavshomron wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nadavshomron wrote:I belive that Derrick is going to put up numbers(if healthy) for Him to get a big contract
It should not be a MVP numbers (he can't do it)
but 19-18 points per game I can see him get and its importent for Him
the key for Him is to get the Knicks deep into the playoffs ( at least a long 2nd round series)

In the best scenario:
MELO 23-22 PPG
DROSE 18-19 PPG
KP 17-16 PPG
LEE 12-11 PPG

if he plays FOR his contract, instead of playing FOR the knicks he will be instrumental in the knicks underachieving yet again. the problem with your perspective is that with deeply-flawed players like rose the two things are in fact mutually exclusive, especially when you factor in how godawful a defender he is. the recipe for success for derrick rose this season as a knickerbocker is as follows:

1) taking an average of 12 shots a game, only good shots. those 5 extra bad shots should be going to kp6 and melo.
2) his usage should be well below 25%. 28% is too high for his lack of efficiency, and 4 or 5 fewer percentage points would indicate his ability to properly share the ball
3) he should average 6-7 assists a game.

if he achieves these numbers he will be doing his job!

you also mention a deep playoff run. from your perspective, if it turns out he is somehow permitted to play FOR his contract and puts up the numbers you think he should-- utter madness in my opinion-- then what is your measure of success? conference finals appearance?

Thanks for Your Comment , I will answer:
1)I don't think 18-19 PPG will be achieved by him playing "only for Him" - He should get more easy opportunities by attacking closeouts and pushing the pace
His should get more assists from 4 to 6-7 AST per game , He has good offensive players around Him
2)IF DROSE played for a lottery team he could get 25+ PPG - by shooting a lot of shots (bad shots)
3) a deep playoff run would be at least a long 2ND round series - this is very importent for Him to get a big contract - if He averaged 25 PPG ( MVP season number) and the knicks are a lottery team - he will not get a big max contract , He knows it(I hope).

i have no issues with him getting points by pushing the ball and converting in transition, or getting lob assists. this is where he and other "scoring point guards" have been effective. additionally, there's a plan in place to get melo to fly out on breaks and wait for the pass at the three-point line. rose can get a couple of assists that way.

the problem is with him over-handling the ball in half court sets. he simply does not merit a usage of 28% when he doesn't generate assists and doesn't shoot the ball well. please note that his assists AND his fta have trended down. a TS% of 50% is awful and hurts the team.

moreover, think about how well a playmaker melo was for 25 extraordinary games last season. think about how great a passer noah is-- there's a reason he has a four-year contract, other than defense and leadership. and think about kp6's court vision-- it never gets mentioned-- his fundamentals, and his potential for becoming a playmaker under noah's guidance.

that's three frontcourt players in a triangle-based offense, an inside-out offense, that all have passing/playmaking abilities or potential. you can't advocate let alone reconcile rose's "contract year" and his agenda "to get paid" with the big men and the offense the knicks have. it's a conflict of interest. much better for rose to adapt his game to others as best as he can, if he wants to remain a knick, and focus especially on developing a rapport with kp6. this means fewer shot attempts, more moving off the ball for backdoors, working on not leaving his feet to pass the ball, working on pocket bounce passing instead out of pick and roll and pick and pop, which we should see a lot more of this season if hornacek is coaching well.

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Nixluva, should you post the Phoenix offense videos under Hornacek or should I?

The sad thing is that some guys are so hard up for bashing Rose that they are not able to see how much of an upgrade he can be for this team. Sure Rose has his flaws and is scary because of past injuries, but in terms of what he brings to the functionality of this team there's no question that he will add a LOT to how this team is able to play.

Did we have a guard that could do these kinds of things on a regular basis?

This isn't even showing the 563 PnR plays Rose made.

YUP people forget he still is a former MVP and is 27 y.o
His 2ND half of the last season was very impressive
His scoring comes at transition,drives, tear drops which is a major upgrade from Calderon/Grant/Galloway

Rose needs the ball... Melo likes to pound it... Jennings is looking to get paid too... So there are concerns about the contract year, just as there are concerns that guys haven't played together. If you want to get paid and you haven't played together...

I think the injury risk is a bigger deal personally. Rose is clearly an upgrade from what we had. I am concerned about those things but I expect him to be a net positive addition over last year. You are the most naive fanboy ever though if you aren't concerned about a guy who clearly didn't play last season so he'd be better in his contract year--so he can get paid

nadavshomron wrote:I feel like when he is healthy he is still an All Star caliber player
He is fairly quick and agile , He drives hard to the basket and finishes in varied ways
on defence he is much better than Calderon

you need one player on every team who makes others around him better, agreed? who is that on the knicks?

dk7th wrote:

nadavshomron wrote:I feel like when he is healthy he is still an All Star caliber player
He is fairly quick and agile , He drives hard to the basket and finishes in varied ways
on defence he is much better than Calderon

you need one player on every team who makes others around him better, agreed? who is that on the knicks?

That's a question that's going to get the answer that you want evey time. Thing is we're not going to win if we are relying on one player to make the rest of the team better. We will need to come together as a collective... we have a strong starting 5 and a strong bench.... if everyone brings it we can win. That's where we should focus on because that's the strength of this team