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Nets subtract, Knicks add = big losses
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islesfan
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8/5/2004  8:05 PM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-sppow053918302aug05,0,5406309.column?coll=ny-sports-print

Nets subtract, Knicks add = big losses

August 5, 2004

Back in April, when the baseball season was young, this was a basketball town. Two teams on opposite sides of the Hudson River were engaged in an emotional if lopsided playoff series that ended too quickly and left folks wanting more.

Well, four months later, the anticipation for the NBA season appears to have dropped as sharply as the Nets' payroll.

One team spent the summer dumping salaries. The other team plans to increase costs without getting any guarantee of increased wins. You know, maybe if the Nets and Knicks traded philosophies, they'd be better prepared to confront the upcoming season, satisfy the cravings of their fans and meet again next April.

Instead, the 2004-05 season might be as long as this offseason.

The Knicks are busy trying to strengthen their image as the Yankees of the NBA - minus the titles. If they do a sign-and-trade for center Erick Dampier, who paid a visit yesterday, and/or pull off the deal in the works with Chicago, their payroll will approach Yankees' proportions.

Here's the kicker: Even if all goes well in the next week or two and GM Isiah Thomas gets his man/men, the Knicks won't add any All-Stars to the mix. They'll just get a few more guys making seven figures for the next several years, and it will give the Dolans another reason to raise your cable bill.

Rather than decrease a payroll that's projected to be at least $50 million more than the champion Detroit Pistons, the Knicks have chosen to keep paying a premium for mediocrity. From a practical standpoint, their team makes absolutely no sense. They're erasing their chances of buying free agents the rest of this decade and locking themselves into contracts nobody else wants. That means the Tim Thomases, Allan Houstons and Penny Hardaways must produce here, because there's nowhere else to go.

You have to feel a little for Isiah. Pressured into winning by James Dolan, Isiah can't knock this team down and start over. Therefore, to improve the Knicks a little, he must hike the payroll by a lot.

Other teams realize the crunch he's in. They refuse to trade with Isiah unless he takes some of their dead weight. That's why Isiah must accept Jerome Williams, a poor man's Kurt Thomas who's due $18 million the next three years, in order to hook Jamal Crawford, who'll cost the Knicks at least another $50 million. Yeesh!

Isiah is smitten by Crawford, who's quick and can score in bunches when his shot's falling. He's only 24, and Crawford would be a refreshing change for a team loaded with players who have already peaked. Of course, the obvious question is why Chicago, which is hurting for talent, would give him up for next to nothing.

The Bulls don't think he's worth the $8 million a year he wants. Maybe it's because Crawford's taking the slow route to maturity. He has battled with coaches, and because he doesn't share the ball, his Chicago teammates have grumbled. He should be real compatible with Stephon Marbury, another shoot-first guard who has maybe two friends in the Knicks' locker room.

Dampier becomes desirable to a team that doesn't have a true starting center, a necessity now with Shaquille O'Neal in the conference. He was a rebounding machine in Golden State last year who nearly doubled his career average. But there's a catch: Dampier did this in a contract year. The last time he played well was also in a contract year. See the pattern here? Many teams have backed away for fear his next decent season will come four years from now.

At least the Knicks are adding. The Nets are busy subtracting: Kenyon Martin, long gone to Denver; Kerry Kittles, traded to the Clippers for virtually nothing; and gone are any hopes of contending in the near future.

Now that new owner Bruce Ratner is cutting costs, he shouldn't stop there. He should dump another expensive load: Jason Kidd.

It makes no sense to bring Kidd back to lead a team he clearly doesn't like. If the Nets are going to lose games and see a drop in attendance, then what good is keeping Kidd? One year after they gave him $100 million, that contract is already a burden. Kidd is coming off knee surgery and will report to camp in a grumpy mood, two very bad signs. The longer they hold onto him, the harder it will be to trade him.

In hindsight, the Nets shouldn't have paid Kidd if they weren't going to pay Martin and Richard Jefferson and keep the threesome intact.

Basketball teams open camp in October, but based on the summer, you can bet this will be only a baseball town then.


I thought this article was pretty fair.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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BigSm00th
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8/5/2004  9:07 PM
Heyman's a good writer.

The point about Dampier producing in a contract year should strengthen the argument for him, since he'd prob. sign a 1yr deal at the MLE and be a rebounding machine again.
#Knickstaps
fishmike
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8/5/2004  9:20 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Isiah is smitten by Crawford, who's quick and can score in bunches when his shot's falling. He's only 24, and Crawford would be a refreshing change for a team loaded with players who have already peaked. Of course, the obvious question is why Chicago, which is hurting for talent, would give him up for next to nothing.

That just about says this guy has no idea what he's talking about. The Bulls are hurting for talent? Really? Ben Gordon, Kirk Heirich, Luol Deng, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry arent talented? Good post Heyman... yea the Bulls are starved for talent. They have too many old guys past their prime

They gave up Crawford to save $15mm. Also they DID offer Crawford a contract slightly above the MLE about 6 years and $40mm. Our offer of $7 and 55 is slightly better and he wanted out of there. The reason Chi did the deal was rather than lose him for nothing after playing the year for the QO they opted for financial relief.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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8/5/2004  9:29 PM
This is my favorite part....

"They're erasing their chances of buying free agents the rest of this decade and locking themselves into contracts nobody else wants."

Umm.... didnt we just buy a free agent? Heyman's right... we will probably never have an opportunity to put together a package like Deke, Othella, Frank and TSki to get a 24 year old player with Crawford's upside again.

"the Knicks have chosen to keep paying a premium for mediocrity."

Really? Had we done nothing and let McDyess walk for nothing and resigned ourselves to win 25 games we still would have had a $55mm payroll putting us in the top 4 in the NBA. Thats not paying a premium for mediocrity? More like a premium for crap...lol

If TT and Houst are healthy and we beat the Nets in round 1 are we still mediocre? I'm sorry, am I making assumptions? Silly me I must be John Hey-man.

"I thought this article was pretty fair."
I'm shocked.. I wonder why
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
islesfan
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8/5/2004  9:30 PM
Posted by fishmike:


That just about says this guy has no idea what he's talking about. The Bulls are hurting for talent? Really? Ben Gordon, Kirk Heirich, Luol Deng, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry arent talented? Good post Heyman... yea the Bulls are starved for talent. They have too many old guys past their prime

They gave up Crawford to save $15mm. Also they DID offer Crawford a contract slightly above the MLE about 6 years and $40mm. Our offer of $7 and 55 is slightly better and he wanted out of there. The reason Chi did the deal was rather than lose him for nothing after playing the year for the QO they opted for financial relief.

Yeah the Bulls thought so much of Crawford that they decided to draft guards with their last 2 1st round picks instead of building around Crawford.

Sure they made the deal in order to gain cap relief rather than lose him for nothing. That's just being smart. They didn't want him around anymore so they decided to pawn him off on another team that was willing to give them that cap relief. Sounds pretty smart to me.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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8/5/2004  9:39 PM
Why are you guys talking about Jon Heyman? Shaun Powell wrote the article.

Why are you shocked? I always enjoy fair and well thought out articles, written by people who aren't on the Kool-Aid.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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8/5/2004  9:39 PM
I'm sorry, silly me to question the intellegence or methods of the Bulls. They have had SOOOO much success rebuilding their team the last 6 years. Your right... they would never make a bad decision.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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8/5/2004  9:41 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Why are you guys talking about Jon Heyman? Shaun Powell wrote the article.

Why are you shocked? I always enjoy fair and well thought out articles, written by people who aren't on the Kool-Aid.

What happened to Chad Ford? He fell off the Kool-aid wagon. He was their with you for awile but after his last (less-thought out article) its clear he's relapsed.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BigSm00th
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8/5/2004  9:51 PM
"I'm sorry, silly me to question the intellegence or methods of the Bulls. They have had SOOOO much success rebuilding their team the last 6 years. Your right... they would never make a bad decision."

I'll never forget the classic "The Chicago Bulls trade Elton Brand to the Los Angeles Clippers for the rights to Tyson Chandler." Ouch.

Or trading Artest and Brad Miller for Jalen Rose.

Just going by their track record, this is bound to work out pretty well for the Knicks.
#Knickstaps
islesfan
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8/5/2004  9:56 PM
What about Chad Ford? I enjoyed his article today too. I may not have agreed with some parts of it but I found it interesting.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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8/5/2004  9:59 PM
thats my point. You agreed with him when he dogged Isiah and talked about how stuck the Knicks will be, and how the Marbury trade will be the Lampe trade. Funny how you no longer agree with him.

Geeze.. maybe you should try some kool-aid. Much better than that pickle juice you seem to be hooked on (yuck!)
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
islesfan
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8/5/2004  10:07 PM

How is that different from you disagreeing with him when he dogged Isiah but now you agree with him?

I thought we were allowed to not only have our own opinion but reserved the right to change it. Silly me.

[Edited by - islesfan on 08/05/2004 22:14:02]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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8/5/2004  10:11 PM
your opinion has never changed but thats ok. And what I find funny is my business (even if its you). Dont post silly things if you dont want people to laugh.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
islesfan
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8/5/2004  10:16 PM
Posted by fishmike:

your opinion has never changed but thats ok. And what I find funny is my business (even if its you). Dont post silly things if you dont want people to laugh.

Huh? Who has a problem with you or anybody else finding something funny?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
KNICKSdom
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8/5/2004  11:30 PM
Islesfan's posts is like unintentional comedy. Funny stuff.
Knicks are happening and have a Unicorn.
raven
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8/6/2004  3:28 AM
that article is a total BS.

they should see beyond the cap for once. Those journalists are so stupid, heck, seems they just spend their time copying and pasting what other journalists said, even if it's totally outdated.

We'll be winning soon. With the wins, comes the playoffs, the TV coverage... MSG will rock again !
nykdunk
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8/6/2004  8:04 AM
Overpaying for mediocrity. Can't have it any other way in NY!
Nets subtract, Knicks add = big losses

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