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Cartman718
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7/15/2016 9:33 AM

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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2651755-report-card-grades-for-each-ny-knicks-free-agent-signing

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree

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Dagger
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7/15/2016 2:01 PM

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Grades are spot on in my opinion.

Quick reference for anyone who just wants the grades alone:

Noah: B+
Lee: B+
Jennings: A+
Thomas: A
N'dour:B
Plumlee: C+
Kuz: C+
Willy: B-
Vujacic: B

Finestrg
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7/15/2016 2:48 PM LAST EDITED: 7/15/2016 4:35 PM

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Dagger wrote:Grades are spot on in my opinion.
Quick reference for anyone who just wants the grades alone:
Noah: B+
Lee: B+
Jennings: A+
Thomas: A
N'dour:B
Plumlee: C+
Kuz: C+
Willy: B-
Vujacic: B

Just my feelings: Noah, Lee and Jennings' grades are all top of the spectrum--let's hope that's how it goes. Fingers crossed...The Thomas grade seems high but I've grown to like & respect him (even though with N'Dour in the mix now, did we really need Thomas back? Did we know N'Dour was available when we signed Thomas? And speaking of N'Dour--B seems about right but I'm hoping for higher, hoping for a guy that forces Hornacek to play him. He seems to be a 3--but can he play 4 and maybe even a little 2 at close to 200 lbs.? Great signing--I wanted him bad last year. Love his kinetic energy and his potential on both sides of the ball. Ahh, good to have both I guess, N'Dour and Thomas, but then there's Kuz too. Very good depth at the 3 (and let's hope Kuz's C+ grade is on the low side--very impressed from video I've seen esp. against James Harden and the US Olympic team ). Also hoping for more than B- work from Willy--I've already got him in the rotation as a backup 5. Hope he can live up to that...Vujacic, I could've done without. We could've done better than him for a 3rd string 2G imo...Still need a 3rd PG--I think you act now on a guy like Spencer Dinwiddie. If something better came along or Dinwiddie disappointed, for the limited amount of money, you cut him and go in a different direction (and we did a decent job of saving money all over the place -- on Noah compared to other centers, on Jennings, we didn't buy into the draft, etc.. There's money there for a calculated high upside gamble on Dinwiddie). I think you get this guy in the fold right now while he's still available. Keeping the 15th spot open is playing it too passive & cheap--I hope that's not coming from Dolan. Give Phil the green light to be aggressive on a low-cost gamble to finish out the roster strong but then go in a different direction if need be. And we wouldn't even have to -- too me, Dinwiddie not only makes this team but would be a rotation player.

blkexec
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7/15/2016 3:15 PM

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Plumlee should be a C
Kuz should be a B-

Plumlee was a decent pickup, because Noah was the only 7ft center on the team, and Plumlee is a perfect center to groom for this team. I think his grade will go up, as his minutes increase. Same with Kuz.....I think he was a steal. Jennings is an A+? Really? Maybe before his injury, but he's still a wild card because he's not fully healed mentally or physically......I think he can still perform the same, but he will be hurting during the season, and will miss some games.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!

BigRedDog
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7/15/2016 3:50 PM

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Dagger wrote:Grades are spot on in my opinion.
Quick reference for anyone who just wants the grades alone:
Noah: B+
Lee: B+
Jennings: A+
Thomas: A
N'dour:B
Plumlee: C+
Kuz: C+
Willy: B-
Vujacic: B

Willy deserves a better grade than Vujacic. Kuz B-

fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate

Dagger
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7/15/2016 3:59 PM

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blkexec wrote:Plumlee should be a C
Kuz should be a B-
Plumlee was a decent pickup, because Noah was the only 7ft center on the team, and Plumlee is a perfect center to groom for this team. I think his grade will go up, as his minutes increase. Same with Kuz.....I think he was a steal. Jennings is an A+? Really? Maybe before his injury, but he's still a wild card because he's not fully healed mentally or physically......I think he can still perform the same, but he will be hurting during the season, and will miss some games.

I think Jennings is an A+ because you're really not going to find another player with his talent at such a low price. The way I interpret the grades is that they are an assessment of the each player's contract given the FA environment and other options available on the market at each position. I didn't think of the grades as predictions guessing the performance of each player next season.

Knixkik
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7/15/2016 4:10 PM

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All deserve good grades except Kuzminskas. I like taking a chance on these euros but using the room exception was tough because there's proven rotation players out there that would accept it for a year and try to build up their value. If he's a rotation player, great, but it's a gamble. My expectations are high on him for that reason.

blkexec
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7/15/2016 4:26 PM

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Dagger wrote:
blkexec wrote:Plumlee should be a C
Kuz should be a B-
Plumlee was a decent pickup, because Noah was the only 7ft center on the team, and Plumlee is a perfect center to groom for this team. I think his grade will go up, as his minutes increase. Same with Kuz.....I think he was a steal. Jennings is an A+? Really? Maybe before his injury, but he's still a wild card because he's not fully healed mentally or physically......I think he can still perform the same, but he will be hurting during the season, and will miss some games.
I think Jennings is an A+ because you're really not going to find another player with his talent at such a low price. The way I interpret the grades is that they are an assessment of the each player's contract given the FA environment and other options available on the market at each position. I didn't think of the grades as predictions guessing the performance of each player next season.

Now that makes sense how the grades were given out.....Thanks

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!

Nalod
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7/15/2016 4:30 PM

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I don't know how to grade? GPA? Weighted curve? Win loss record?

mreinman
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7/15/2016 7:05 PM

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Dagger wrote:Grades are spot on in my opinion.
Quick reference for anyone who just wants the grades alone:
Noah: B+
Lee: B+
Jennings: A+
Thomas: A
N'dour:B
Plumlee: C+
Kuz: C+
Willy: B-
Vujacic: B

Grades are pretty fair though Noah is way too big of a risk to deserve a B+

If Noah can return to the player he was a couple of years ago, its an A+++ though he looks like a player who is on a steady decline.

so here is what phil is thinking ....

GustavBahler
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7/19/2016 11:39 AM

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Have to give Noah an incomplete on a 4 year deal. Have to see how well he holds up. The rest of them I would give a B except for Plumlee who I would give a C. Giving Hernangomez and Kuz (need a better name) a B because they have some pro experience and Phil found talent overseas without any draft picks.

RonRon
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7/20/2016 9:30 AM LAST EDITED: 7/20/2016 9:34 AM

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Just out of curiosity, how would the board feel about acquiring Nick Young from the Lakers for assets?
Iggy and Young are officially separated, though you cannot blame it ALL on Russell, he still had a big part in it....
On top of doing a favor for Jeannie Buss and establishing an ally for our future....

For what would we need to separate Nick Young with DeAngello Russell (as they are not trading him unless it is in a package for Westbrook)

Youngs contract is not that bad with these salaries
Next year he may even OPT out of it as well...
What would it take for us to justify taking Young's contract, with players, cash, draft picks (1st, how many 2nds, or swap picks/1st or/and 2nd rounders)

We could also use another shooter though he needs better shot selection
This would be likely buying his services at a low to acquire maximum assets in the process
Many teams will likely be willing to take his salary for assets, with many teams under the 90m + cap space like Philly/Nets and many others...
If they are under it, the extra money gets divided up to the rest of the roster *so basically it is free assets for many teams*
,

Nick Young's contract
=================================

$5,443,918 *this upcoming year*

$5,668,667 *next years contract with about 30m in cap space but he could OPT out of it as well as he has a player option*

Welpee
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7/20/2016 9:45 AM LAST EDITED: 7/20/2016 9:47 AM

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RonRon wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how would the board feel about acquiring Nick Young from the Lakers for assets?
Iggy and Young are officially separated, though you cannot blame it ALL on Russell, he still had a big part in it....
On top of doing a favor for Jeannie Buss and establishing an ally for our future....
For what would we need to separate Nick Young with DeAngello Russell (as they are not trading him unless it is in a package for Westbrook)
Youngs contract is not that bad with these salaries
Next year he may even OPT out of it as well...
What would it take for us to justify taking Young's contract, with players, cash, draft picks (1st, how many 2nds, or swap picks/1st or/and 2nd rounders)
We could also use another shooter though he needs better shot selection
This would be likely buying his services at a low to acquire maximum assets in the process
Many teams will likely be willing to take his salary for assets, with many teams under the 90m + cap space like Philly/Nets and many others...
If they are under it, the extra money gets divided up to the rest of the roster *so basically it is free assets for many teams*
,
Nick Young's contract
=================================

$5,443,918 *this upcoming year*
$5,668,667 *next years contract with about 30m in cap space but he could OPT out of it as well as he has a player option*

Nick Young was a knucklehead in Washington, he has been an even bigger knucklehead in LA since he took on this "Swaggy P" persona. He's not a knucklehead in a destructive/legal way, but a knucklehead in that he seems focused on a lot of dumb stuff and not so much on basketball. I really don't think winning basketball games is his priority right now. He would be a JR Smith-like distraction.

Pass.

RonRon
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7/20/2016 9:46 AM

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New York Knicks incoming draft picks, we own ALL of our 1st rounders including the upcoming 2017 draft pick
====================================================================================================================

2017 second round draft pick from Chicago
Chicago's 2017 2nd round pick to New York [Chicago-New York, 6/22/2016]

2017 second round draft pick from Houston
Houston's 2017 2nd round pick to New York [Houston-New York, 2/19/2015]

Which gives us 3 total draft picks right now with our 1st rounder
In addition I believe we can have 3.2m or so to use in trades incentives or to purchase picks and also gets resett sometime next year?
==================================================

2019 second round draft picks from Cleveland and/or Houston and/or Orlando (two least favorable)
Orlando will receive the most favorable of Cleveland's 2019 2nd round pick, Houston's 2019 2nd round pick, Orlando's 2019 2nd round pick and Portland's 2019 2nd round pick; New York will receive the two least favorable of the Cleveland pick, the Houston pick and the Orlando pick; Detroit will receive the less favorable of (i) the Portland pick and (ii) the most favorable of the Cleveland pick, the Houston pick and the Orlando pick (via Orlando's right to swap for Cleveland or Houston (via Cleveland and Houston to New York); via Portland to Orlando to Detroit) [Cleveland-New York-Oklahoma City, 1/5/2015; Houston-New York, 2/19/2015; New York-Orlando, 7/9/2015; Orlando-Portland, 6/23/2016; Detroit-Orlando, 6/29/2016]

Knicks outgoing draft picks
========================================

2017 second round draft pick from Chicago
Chicago's 2017 2nd round pick to New York [Chicago-New York, 6/22/2016]

2017 second round draft pick from Houston
Houston's 2017 2nd round pick to New York [Houston-New York, 2/19/2015]

Lakers incoming draft picks
====================================

2018 second round draft pick from Denver
Denver's 2018 2nd round pick to L.A. Lakers (via Utah to Chicago) [Denver-Golden State-Utah, 7/10/2013; Atlanta-Chicago-Utah, 2/18/2016; Chicago-L.A. Lakers, 7/7/2016]

2019 second round draft pick from Chicago
Chicago's 2019 2nd round pick to L.A. Lakers [Chicago-L.A. Lakers, 7/7/2016]

Believe both 2nd rounders above are for taking Calderon's of about 7.8m contract, which Nets also wanted to absorb for assets

Lakers outgoing draft picks
======================================

2017 first round draft pick to Philadelphia
L.A. Lakers' 1st round pick to Philadelphia (via Phoenix) protected for selections 1-3 in 2017 and unprotected in 2018 [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015]
(TOP 3 protected again but unprotected next year however if they can get a TOP 3 pick again this year, Jeannie's brother should be quiting or "fired unless they acquire a Westbrook or LEGIT MAX tier player, since a team can not trade 2 1st rounders in a row, it would affect the next draft pick that is traded already, could also open a return to Lakers from Jeannie Buss/Phil Jackson reuniting)

2019 first round draft pick to Orlando
If the L.A. Lakers convey a 1st round pick to Philadelphia in 2017, then the L.A. Lakers will convey their 2019 1st round pick to Orlando; if the L.A. Lakers do not convey a 1st round pick to Philadelphia in 2017, then the L.A. Lakers will instead convey their 2017 2nd round pick and 2018 2nd round pick to Orlando [L.A. Lakers-Orlando, 8/10/2012]

2019 second round draft pick to Portland or Cleveland
Portland will receive the more favorable of the L.A. Lakers' 2019 2nd round pick (via Indiana to Cleveland) and Minnesota's 2019 2nd round pick (via Cleveland) and Cleveland will receive the less favorable of these two picks [Cleveland-Minnesota, 6/25/2015; Indiana-L.A. Lakers, 7/9/2015; Cleveland-Indiana, 7/23/2015; Cleveland-Portland, 7/27/2015]; Cleveland may convey the pick to Portland (see Cleveland Outgoing)

RonRon
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7/20/2016 9:51 AM LAST EDITED: 7/20/2016 9:58 AM

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Welpee wrote:
RonRon wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how would the board feel about acquiring Nick Young from the Lakers for assets?
Iggy and Young are officially separated, though you cannot blame it ALL on Russell, he still had a big part in it....
On top of doing a favor for Jeannie Buss and establishing an ally for our future....
For what would we need to separate Nick Young with DeAngello Russell (as they are not trading him unless it is in a package for Westbrook)
Youngs contract is not that bad with these salaries
Next year he may even OPT out of it as well...
What would it take for us to justify taking Young's contract, with players, cash, draft picks (1st, how many 2nds, or swap picks/1st or/and 2nd rounders)
We could also use another shooter though he needs better shot selection
This would be likely buying his services at a low to acquire maximum assets in the process
Many teams will likely be willing to take his salary for assets, with many teams under the 90m + cap space like Philly/Nets and many others...
If they are under it, the extra money gets divided up to the rest of the roster *so basically it is free assets for many teams*
,
Nick Young's contract
=================================

$5,443,918 *this upcoming year*
$5,668,667 *next years contract with about 30m in cap space but he could OPT out of it as well as he has a player option*
Nick Young was a knucklehead in Washington, he has been an even bigger knucklehead in LA since he took on this "Swaggy P" persona. He's not a knucklehead in a destructive/legal way, but a knucklehead in that he seems focused on a lot of dumb stuff and not so much on basketball. I really don't think winning basketball games is his priority right now.
Pass.

I am NOT disagreeing with you WELPEE,
However, EVERYTHING has a price

Considering Anthony Tolliver is making about 10m and Gereld Henderson PER YEAR, Bayless, and ALL ON MULTIYEAR deals with many other contracts, the $5.5m (Young's salary) can be sent with cash (about 3.2m) and picks for instance...

Which is also why both Lee (4year 48m which was once A LOT but right now is not much) and Noah's (4year 72.5m) contracts really are not that bad...
I mean Miles Plumlee is making 4year 52m, Mosgov 4years 64m, Noah 4year 72.5m (while he is just 1 year older than MosGoV)

Just say we send Lou Amundson/Early etc...

Knickoftime
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7/20/2016 9:57 AM

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RonRon wrote:
Welpee wrote:
RonRon wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how would the board feel about acquiring Nick Young from the Lakers for assets?
Iggy and Young are officially separated, though you cannot blame it ALL on Russell, he still had a big part in it....
On top of doing a favor for Jeannie Buss and establishing an ally for our future....
For what would we need to separate Nick Young with DeAngello Russell (as they are not trading him unless it is in a package for Westbrook)
Youngs contract is not that bad with these salaries
Next year he may even OPT out of it as well...
What would it take for us to justify taking Young's contract, with players, cash, draft picks (1st, how many 2nds, or swap picks/1st or/and 2nd rounders)
We could also use another shooter though he needs better shot selection
This would be likely buying his services at a low to acquire maximum assets in the process
Many teams will likely be willing to take his salary for assets, with many teams under the 90m + cap space like Philly/Nets and many others...
If they are under it, the extra money gets divided up to the rest of the roster *so basically it is free assets for many teams*
,
Nick Young's contract
=================================

$5,443,918 *this upcoming year*
$5,668,667 *next years contract with about 30m in cap space but he could OPT out of it as well as he has a player option*
Nick Young was a knucklehead in Washington, he has been an even bigger knucklehead in LA since he took on this "Swaggy P" persona. He's not a knucklehead in a destructive/legal way, but a knucklehead in that he seems focused on a lot of dumb stuff and not so much on basketball. I really don't think winning basketball games is his priority right now.
Pass.
I am NOT disagreeing with you WELPEE,
However, EVERYTHING has a price
Considering Anthony Tolliver is making about 10m and Gereld Henderson, Bayless, and ALL ON MULTIYEAR deals with many other contracts, the $5.5m (Young's salary) can be sent with cash (about 3.2m) and picks for instance...
Just say we send Lou Amundson/Early etc...

That'd be tough considering neither of those players are on the KNicks roster.

This is the Knicks roster right now.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/new-york-knicks-team-salary/

The ONLY player that could move for Young is O'Quinn.

Welpee
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7/20/2016 10:05 AM LAST EDITED: 7/20/2016 10:06 AM

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RonRon wrote:
Welpee wrote:
RonRon wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how would the board feel about acquiring Nick Young from the Lakers for assets?
Iggy and Young are officially separated, though you cannot blame it ALL on Russell, he still had a big part in it....
On top of doing a favor for Jeannie Buss and establishing an ally for our future....
For what would we need to separate Nick Young with DeAngello Russell (as they are not trading him unless it is in a package for Westbrook)
Youngs contract is not that bad with these salaries
Next year he may even OPT out of it as well...
What would it take for us to justify taking Young's contract, with players, cash, draft picks (1st, how many 2nds, or swap picks/1st or/and 2nd rounders)
We could also use another shooter though he needs better shot selection
This would be likely buying his services at a low to acquire maximum assets in the process
Many teams will likely be willing to take his salary for assets, with many teams under the 90m + cap space like Philly/Nets and many others...
If they are under it, the extra money gets divided up to the rest of the roster *so basically it is free assets for many teams*
,
Nick Young's contract
=================================

$5,443,918 *this upcoming year*
$5,668,667 *next years contract with about 30m in cap space but he could OPT out of it as well as he has a player option*
Nick Young was a knucklehead in Washington, he has been an even bigger knucklehead in LA since he took on this "Swaggy P" persona. He's not a knucklehead in a destructive/legal way, but a knucklehead in that he seems focused on a lot of dumb stuff and not so much on basketball. I really don't think winning basketball games is his priority right now.
Pass.
I am NOT disagreeing with you WELPEE,
However, EVERYTHING has a price
Considering Anthony Tolliver is making about 10m and Gereld Henderson PER YEAR, Bayless, and ALL ON MULTIYEAR deals with many other contracts, the $5.5m (Young's salary) can be sent with cash (about 3.2m) and picks for instance...
Which is also why both Lee (4year 48m which was once A LOT but right now is not much) and Noah's (4year 72.5m) contracts really are not that bad...
I mean Miles Plumlee is making 4year 52m, Mosgov 4years 64m, Noah 4year 72.5m (while he is just 1 year older than MosGoV)
Just say we send Lou Amundson/Early etc...

Young has had two relatively poor seasons in a row so I don't think his current deal is that much of a bargain. Plus you potentially have to keep him for two years? I would rather roll the dice on some young kid than bring in Nick Young at any price.

jrodmc
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7/20/2016 12:11 PM

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Maybe they should be all A's because with all these signings, we only lose 2nd round picks in the Phil regime.

If the Bargs trade was an F, everything Phil's done should be at least an A.

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