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stanleybostitch
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7/8/2016  1:25 PM
From Begley: "The Knicks have renounced free agents Derrick Williams, Kevin Seraphin, Lou Amundson and Cleanthony Early, so the players no longer count against their salary cap. They can offer these players a contract with a first-year value equal to whatever cap space they have left, which appears to be minimal. They can also offer each player the veterans minimum exception. Williams, in particular, figures to command more than that on the open market so it will be difficult for New York to re-sign him"

Not too upset, Williams really the only upside guy here, and we have better upside guys now with Willy and Mindy.

The new new core: Randle, RJ, IQ. Maybe Mitch. Future pick. Future trade. Future FA.
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Clean
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7/8/2016  1:52 PM
Early is a real disappointment. I thought he had potential to be a good role player. He just never improved during his time with us.
Dagger
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7/8/2016  2:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/8/2016  2:03 PM
Clean wrote:Early is a real disappointment. I thought he had potential to be a good role player. He just never improved during his time with us.

I'm not really an early fan but injuries and the club shooting really derailed him. He might have grown more if he was actually able to stay on the court.
djsunyc
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7/8/2016  2:05 PM
Clean wrote:Early is a real disappointment. I thought he had potential to be a good role player. He just never improved during his time with us.

only "young" player to play well under phil has been porzingis. knicks are not in the business of development. you need to be good right away otherwise you'll be gone. either that or he got lucky with porzingis and can't really evaluate talent in the draft.
Knickoftime
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7/8/2016  2:12 PM
djsunyc wrote:
Clean wrote:Early is a real disappointment. I thought he had potential to be a good role player. He just never improved during his time with us.

only "young" player to play well under phil has been porzingis. knicks are not in the business of development. you need to be good right away otherwise you'll be gone. either that or he got lucky with porzingis and can't really evaluate talent in the draft.

Lance Thomas says hey.
Dagger
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7/8/2016  2:13 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/8/2016  2:14 PM
djsunyc wrote:
Clean wrote:Early is a real disappointment. I thought he had potential to be a good role player. He just never improved during his time with us.

only "young" player to play well under phil has been porzingis. knicks are not in the business of development. you need to be good right away otherwise you'll be gone. either that or he got lucky with porzingis and can't really evaluate talent in the draft.


Porzingis was Phil's only first round pick, so I don't think that's a fair conclusion to make. Most second rounders don't amount to much in the NBA
djsunyc
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7/8/2016  2:17 PM
jerian grant was a first round pick.

lance thomas is the same age as fred sanford.
Dagger
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7/8/2016  2:23 PM
djsunyc wrote:jerian grant was a first round pick.

lance thomas is the same age as fred sanford.

Well they traded for grant because they wanted to get rid of Hardaway. With rose on board Grant was really not necessary especially with Jennings as a back-up, so I don't think you can write grant off as a player development failure.
EnySpree
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7/8/2016  2:37 PM
You can want to develop someone... it's up to the player to do the work and have the mental capacity to succeed.
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Knickoftime
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7/8/2016  2:40 PM
djsunyc wrote:jerian grant was a first round pick.

lance thomas is the same age as fred sanford.

So Knicks saw something in Thomas, stuck with him, and he blossomed in NY, but it doesn't count because he's 28?

Yup, makes perfect sense.
fishmike
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7/8/2016  3:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/8/2016  3:02 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
djsunyc wrote:jerian grant was a first round pick.

lance thomas is the same age as fred sanford.

So Knicks saw something in Thomas, stuck with him, and he blossomed in NY, but it doesn't count because he's 28?

Yup, makes perfect sense.

Did the Knicks develop Lance? Or was he a guy that played well for us and was resigned? I would say Langston was developed by the Knicks. Grant was not given the chance to (traded). KP did. I mean Phil has had 2 first rounders to work with. One's a HR. The other was probably drafted BECAUSE he was older, and I wouldn't call Grant a failure. I mean he was traded in a deal to get Rose. By comparison I wouldn't call Lopez a failure because he was traded a year later. This is just player movement
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knickoftime
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7/8/2016  3:07 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
djsunyc wrote:jerian grant was a first round pick.

lance thomas is the same age as fred sanford.

So Knicks saw something in Thomas, stuck with him, and he blossomed in NY, but it doesn't count because he's 28?

Yup, makes perfect sense.

Did the Knicks develop Lance? Or was he a guy that played well for us and was resigned? I would say Langston was developed by the Knicks. Grant was not given the chance to (traded). KP did. I mean Phil has had 2 first rounders to work with. One's a HR. The other was probably drafted BECAUSE he was older, and I wouldn't call Grant a failure. I mean he was traded in a deal to get Rose. By comparison I wouldn't call Lopez a failure because he was traded a year later. This is just player movement

I'm not sure what "developed" is exactly?

Doesn't it just mean a player spent time on a team, got better then he was, and earned more PT and a bigger role?

Is it something more specific/nuanced than that?
jrodmc
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7/8/2016  3:44 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
djsunyc wrote:jerian grant was a first round pick.

lance thomas is the same age as fred sanford.

So Knicks saw something in Thomas, stuck with him, and he blossomed in NY, but it doesn't count because he's 28?

Yup, makes perfect sense.

Did the Knicks develop Lance? Or was he a guy that played well for us and was resigned? I would say Langston was developed by the Knicks. Grant was not given the chance to (traded). KP did. I mean Phil has had 2 first rounders to work with. One's a HR. The other was probably drafted BECAUSE he was older, and I wouldn't call Grant a failure. I mean he was traded in a deal to get Rose. By comparison I wouldn't call Lopez a failure because he was traded a year later. This is just player movement

I'm not sure what "developed" is exactly?

Doesn't it just mean a player spent time on a team, got better then he was, and earned more PT and a bigger role?

Is it something more specific/nuanced than that?

"last gasp of Phil hate"

"I have almost nothing to pee on now, so I'll continue to state Phil doesn't know as much as me about yoots"
Nalod
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7/8/2016  4:04 PM
We can still bring back Early.
Nalod
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7/8/2016  4:11 PM
Right now only 4 Knicks are returning:

Melo
KP
Lance
KOQ

I can see Early coming back, but that's it.
Langston was developed to get a nice deal from Pel's. Grant was a work in progress.
its not like we have had multiple picks either.

Maybe Phil was not enamored with the job Fish did with the yoots either.
fishmike
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7/8/2016  4:19 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
djsunyc wrote:jerian grant was a first round pick.

lance thomas is the same age as fred sanford.

So Knicks saw something in Thomas, stuck with him, and he blossomed in NY, but it doesn't count because he's 28?

Yup, makes perfect sense.

Did the Knicks develop Lance? Or was he a guy that played well for us and was resigned? I would say Langston was developed by the Knicks. Grant was not given the chance to (traded). KP did. I mean Phil has had 2 first rounders to work with. One's a HR. The other was probably drafted BECAUSE he was older, and I wouldn't call Grant a failure. I mean he was traded in a deal to get Rose. By comparison I wouldn't call Lopez a failure because he was traded a year later. This is just player movement

I'm not sure what "developed" is exactly?

Doesn't it just mean a player spent time on a team, got better then he was, and earned more PT and a bigger role?

Is it something more specific/nuanced than that?

Do you view Lance as a project that the Knicks developed into an NBA player? I don't think its that nuanced... I guess its progression. Is Lance that much different from the other teams he was on?

I think the notion is simply a progression of the player's game, skill set and impact. Did those things change for Lance with the Knicks? They certainly did with Galloway. Grant had a strong finish but its hard to make judgments as those games were extended garbage time.

For the record I disagree with comment.. I think the Knicks are pretty committed to player development. I think they view the Dleague as a real resource. We have added more draft picks than traded away, and the most important player on the roster was drafted.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knickoftime
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7/8/2016  4:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/8/2016  4:44 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
djsunyc wrote:jerian grant was a first round pick.

lance thomas is the same age as fred sanford.

So Knicks saw something in Thomas, stuck with him, and he blossomed in NY, but it doesn't count because he's 28?

Yup, makes perfect sense.

Did the Knicks develop Lance? Or was he a guy that played well for us and was resigned? I would say Langston was developed by the Knicks. Grant was not given the chance to (traded). KP did. I mean Phil has had 2 first rounders to work with. One's a HR. The other was probably drafted BECAUSE he was older, and I wouldn't call Grant a failure. I mean he was traded in a deal to get Rose. By comparison I wouldn't call Lopez a failure because he was traded a year later. This is just player movement

I'm not sure what "developed" is exactly?

Doesn't it just mean a player spent time on a team, got better then he was, and earned more PT and a bigger role?

Is it something more specific/nuanced than that?

Do you view Lance as a project that the Knicks developed into an NBA player? I don't think its that nuanced... I guess its progression. Is Lance that much different from the other teams he was on?

Well, the 3 pointer is new this past year.

Anecdotally, LT went from a guys most Knicks fans didn't understand how he was on the roster and was the but of jokes for whatever PT he got to a player that most embraced back at 4 years at $6m per.

So yes, I think the Knicks exhibited vision, patience, put him in a role he could succeed in, and he added to his game to solidify his role and justify his PT.

If that just progress and development is something different, I'm not sure I recognize the difference.
reub
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7/8/2016  8:29 PM
How can anybody be hating on Phil right now after he brought in all of this talent and excitement? Plus a good coach. Even Baker and Randle are looking good with no draft picks.
meloanyk
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7/8/2016  8:57 PM
Lance is the same hard working player that was well liked by all his previous coaches and teams. The difference with Lance last year was that he finally developed a reliable shot

As far as Grant, many forget that we got Holiday who may turn out to be better fr this team
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