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Forget Kris for Westbrook. The real question is draft picks...
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joec32033
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7/7/2016  1:41 AM
I don't think Porzingis is going anywhere, I think the real question is would you trade multiple future first rounders for Westbrook.

History dictates situations like this rarely result in high caliber young players getting traded for Westbrook in his current situation. I think the real question is would you trade some filler packages with some combo of younger players (i.e. Thomas, Jennings, Holiday, OQuinn) with Rose (to make salaries match) along with multiple first rounders for Westbrook and filler.

I'm not sure either way just thinking this may be a more realistic scenario than giving up actual high ceiling players based on similiar trades (Boston, although I know they gave up Jefferson, New Jersey-Pierce/Garnett trade), Gasol (at the time the 2 first round picks were the highlight of that trade, not Marc), Chris Paul veto trade (Hornets were gonna get some decent but not high ceiling players and a pick in that trade).

I know some deals had young players in them (Chris Paul netted Eric Gordon), Boston letting go of Jefferson but it seems the draft picks are the constant.

What do you guys think?

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WaltLongmire
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7/7/2016  1:48 AM
The real question is whether OKC would only take draft picks.

We can't do next year's, as far as I know, and if we were to get Westbrook for picks, you have to figure that the #1s we gave up would not be high #1s because you would assume that we would be a good team.

If Westbrook wants the Knicks, and we want him...best thing is to wait for FA.

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joec32033
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7/7/2016  2:02 AM
WaltLongmire wrote: The real question is whether OKC would only take draft picks.

We can't do next year's, as far as I know, and if we were to get Westbrook for picks, you have to figure that the #1s we gave up would not be high #1s because you would assume that we would be a good team.

If Westbrook wants the Knicks, and we want him...best thing is to wait for FA.

Not saying I disagree. I would prefer him as a FA above all else. Im just saying alot of these type of superstar walk year trades revolve around draft picks.

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earthmansurfer
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7/7/2016  3:07 AM
After seeing how Westbrook and Durant couldn't really (consistently) play team ball, Durant actually leaving that team that could have won it all - I'm surprised we would even consider Westbrook. Yeah, super talented but can he play on a team that shares the ball? He seems like a "me first" kind of guy.

I would take him as a FA as we can try it out, but I wouldn't give up much to get him. KP is totally not even in the discussion.

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Paris907
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7/7/2016  5:40 AM
Interestingly most commentary re Weatbrook sees him as a pg. I think his 4th quarter collapses and turnovers made it clear that he's a SG. I don't find him as a pass first define the offense kind of guard. Obviously there's talent through the roof but I'd let someone else run the offense.
newyorknewyork
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7/7/2016  6:11 AM
Westbrook's ast% has exceeded his usage in every season except one. Last yr he held a 31.6 usage to 49.6 ast%. In the playoffs he held a 34.3 usage to 52.4 ast%.

And those are some outstanding assist percentages. Durant over the last 2 playoff seasons his ast% has dropped down to 18% and 14% in the playoffs.

Yet Westbrook is seen as the jock. Westbrook also puts in a lot more effort on defense then Durant has done in his career.

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EwingsGlass
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7/7/2016  8:18 AM
No, I think the core is strong enough to grow together and develop the franchise with the picks we have. Knowing the team has injury risk, I would want to hold draft picks to hedge against that risk. Let him hold out a year and come as a free agency.
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Knixkik
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7/7/2016  8:27 AM
We would never be able to trade for Westbrook without including Porzingis. Hermangomez or Kuzminskas would have to become a star in order to put together a decent package for Westbrook.
StarksEwing1
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7/7/2016  8:33 AM
Let me put it this way if Phil ever trades KP for Westbrook he may as well pack his bags and go back to LA. Porzingis is the future of this franchise not melo,not noah, and not even westbrook. When it comes to westbrook they should wait until free agency. I he signs with us great if he doesn't we simply move on to other targets ecause its a great FA class
Welpee
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7/7/2016  8:39 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:Let me put it this way if Phil ever trades KP for Westbrook he may as well pack his bags and go back to LA. Porzingis is the future of this franchise not melo,not noah, and not even westbrook. When it comes to westbrook they should wait until free agency. If he signs with us great if he doesn't we simply move on to other targets because its a great FA class
I agree. Plus we don't want to get burned like the Lakers did trading for Howard only to have him run to Houston after the season. If you can somehow trade a package to get him that doesn't include picks or KP, definitely consider it. 7'3" guys with KP's skills are way more rare than Westbrook.
dk7th
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7/7/2016  8:41 AM
earthmansurfer wrote:After seeing how Westbrook and Durant couldn't really (consistently) play team ball, Durant actually leaving that team that could have won it all - I'm surprised we would even consider Westbrook. Yeah, super talented but can he play on a team that shares the ball? He seems like a "me first" kind of guy.

I would take him as a FA as we can try it out, but I wouldn't give up much to get him. KP is totally not even in the discussion.

he's a difficult case that is for sure. he racks up assists, and his usage is absurdly high, but then his assist rate (the percentage of time an assist is generated with him in the floor) is also extremely high, somewhat justifying the absurdly high usage rate.

the issue with him may lie elsewhere: he takes too many shots for a player with such a low TS%, and he turns the ball over a bunch. bad shots are the same as turnovers, and my hunch is that, since his emergence, that taking around 19 shots a game is about 4 shots a game too many, and they are extremely likely to have been bad shots, which are tantamount to turnovers and momentum changers in the opponent's favor.

as great as westbrook seems to be, he needs to tighten up his game a bunch... and i don't see that happening any time soon.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Knixkik
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7/7/2016  8:57 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:Let me put it this way if Phil ever trades KP for Westbrook he may as well pack his bags and go back to LA. Porzingis is the future of this franchise not melo,not noah, and not even westbrook. When it comes to westbrook they should wait until free agency. I he signs with us great if he doesn't we simply move on to other targets ecause its a great FA class

Yeah Porzingis is the guy, no doubt about that. I really want the Knicks and Porzingis to develop a relationship like Mavs have with Dirk, Spurs with Duncan, etc. I want him in a Knicks jersey for his entire career and for the Knicks and Porzingis name to be synonymous for the rest of time.
Knicksfan
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7/7/2016  9:45 AM
Westbrook on Free Agency or no Westbrook. Simple as that.
Knicks_Fan
shinmen
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7/7/2016  9:52 AM
Knicksfan wrote:Westbrook on Free Agency or no Westbrook. Simple as that.

I agree but we should be aware that OKC will definitely trade Westbrook to get something in return. Even if he has to implicitely approve the trade; Celtics, Lakers or another big market will give them a lot to acquire a player like him.
I don't think he'll be a knick and like you I don't want to give OKC any picks or KP.
newyorker4ever
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7/7/2016  9:57 AM
joec32033 wrote:I don't think Porzingis is going anywhere, I think the real question is would you trade multiple future first rounders for Westbrook.

History dictates situations like this rarely result in high caliber young players getting traded for Westbrook in his current situation. I think the real question is would you trade some filler packages with some combo of younger players (i.e. Thomas, Jennings, Holiday, OQuinn) with Rose (to make salaries match) along with multiple first rounders for Westbrook and filler.

I'm not sure either way just thinking this may be a more realistic scenario than giving up actual high ceiling players based on similiar trades (Boston, although I know they gave up Jefferson, New Jersey-Pierce/Garnett trade), Gasol (at the time the 2 first round picks were the highlight of that trade, not Marc), Chris Paul veto trade (Hornets were gonna get some decent but not high ceiling players and a pick in that trade).

I know some deals had young players in them (Chris Paul netted Eric Gordon), Boston letting go of Jefferson but it seems the draft picks are the constant.

What do you guys think?

I wouldn't trade anything that would hurt our now and future for him. We already know we will have a chance to sign him in free agency so i would wait until he's a free agent and if we don't sign him we move on to C.Paul, S.Curry, K.Lowry, J.Holliday or even D.Rose.
meloanyk
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7/7/2016  10:04 AM
KP going nowhere. Offer #1, Rose and Wily but OKC going get more elsewhere
jrodmc
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7/7/2016  10:34 AM
I love Westbrook, despite the turnovers and his oft-berated D, but I'm done with trading 1st rounders. Get him in FA or let him go somewhere else. Trade KP? Maybe for Durant or Lebron.

Can't wait for the first trade Melo/Rose/2nd rounders for Westbrook trade thread.
arkrud
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7/7/2016  10:34 AM
People never learned.
This is Melo 2008 reduce.
Some will argue that Westbrook is better player that Melo.
May be, but we have no reasonable assets to trade for him.
So it is the same thing.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Caseloads
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7/7/2016  10:43 AM
WaltLongmire wrote: The real question is whether OKC would only take draft picks.

We can't do next year's, as far as I know, and if we were to get Westbrook for picks, you have to figure that the #1s we gave up would not be high #1s because you would assume that we would be a good team.

If Westbrook wants the Knicks, and we want him...best thing is to wait for FA.


TRUE
crzymdups
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7/7/2016  10:48 AM
WaltLongmire wrote: The real question is whether OKC would only take draft picks.

We can't do next year's, as far as I know, and if we were to get Westbrook for picks, you have to figure that the #1s we gave up would not be high #1s because you would assume that we would be a good team.

If Westbrook wants the Knicks, and we want him...best thing is to wait for FA.

I agree with the last part - best thing is to wait for him in FA.

On the middle part - I remember a lot of Knicks fans here figured the two picks we gave up in the Eddy Curry deal would not be high #1s because a team of Marbury and Eddy Curry would be so good... oy vey... we wound up giving up picks 2 and 9 in back to back drafts to the Bulls. Picks that became LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah.

I'm done trading #1 picks.

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