[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

from the daily news (Vince Carter)
Author Thread
raven
Posts: 22454
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #316
Canada
8/5/2004  6:00 AM
Vince pushes for Knick deal



BY FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Vince Carter's agent revealed yesterday that the All-Star swingman met with Toronto Raptors management two weeks ago and asked the club to explore trade possibilities.
"We did meet and asked them to look into trades," Mark Steinberg said in a telephone interview. "They know where we stand."

Steinberg would neither confirm nor deny reports that Carter is trying to orchestrate a trade to New York. Last week, a person close to Carter told the Daily News that he "absolutely wants to be traded to the Knicks."

Raptors first-year GM Rob Babcock has stated publicly that Carter, who has four years remaining on his contract, will remain in Toronto. Still, the Knicks and Raptors have had had preliminary discussions regarding Carter and would likely have to include a third or even fourth team to make a deal.

Knicks president Isiah Thomas has let it be known that under no circumstances would he trade point guard Stephon Marbury, which makes it all the more difficult to pry Carter from Toronto. Tim Thomas could be included in a potential deal, although Isiah Thomas has strong feelings for the player he acquired last February for Keith Van Horn.

In all likelihood, if the Raptors were to trade Carter, they would want some of their high-salaried players (Alvin Williams, Jalen Rose) included in the deal. It's hard to imagine the Raptors trading their most marketable player to the Knicks and to Thomas, the former Raptors president who had a falling out with Toronto's ownership group.

The Knicks can only hope that Carter puts enough pressure on Toronto to force its hand. Shaquille O'Neal and Tracy McGrady forced their teams to trade them to Miami and Houston respectively. Of course, both players had leverage because they were entering the final year of their contracts while Carter's deal doesn't expire until after the 2008 season.


Dampier just visiting?


Golden State free-agent center Erick Dampier met with Knicks officials yesterday in New York and said he would be willing to sign a one-year deal for $5 million. However, Dampier's agent, Dan Fegan, said that a one-year deal would only be a "last resort" because Dampier would not be eligible to sign a more lucrative deal with the Knicks until he spends three seasons with the club. Dampier had opted out of the final two years of his contract worth $16 million.

Trying to work out a sign-and-trade with the Warriors, the Knicks have offered Kurt Thomas and Othella Harrington. The Atlanta Hawks have an advantage because they can sign Dampier outright.

"The mid-level is definitely something I would consider if a sign-and-trade doesn't happen," Dampier told MSG Network. " I would sit down with my representative and my family and put some consideration into it."


Crawford raises asking price


Amid rumors that the Knicks are unhappy with Jamal Crawford's demands for more money, a source indicated that the six-player deal with the Bulls could be finalized today.

Crawford's agent, Aaron Goodwin, is looking for a more lucrative contract than the seven-year, $56 million offer the Knicks have on the table. Of course, that is also the only offer Crawford, a free agent, has received from any team.

If Crawford were to turn down the Knicks, his only option would be to return to Chicago for one year at $3.5 million.

Originally published on August 5, 2004


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/story/219053p-188387c.html
AUTOADVERT
raven
Posts: 22454
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #316
Canada
8/5/2004  6:02 AM
You know we could do a vince + alvin williams + lammond murray swap for KT + TT + nazr.

Works under the cap.

Yet, do we need vince carter ?

I mean we need interior scoring from dampier and sweet if we have both, they'll need touches.

With marbury + houston + crawford, it may be hard if you add vince to succeed in even getting the ball down low.
diderotn
Posts: 25657
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/15/2004
Member: #650
USA
8/5/2004  7:48 AM
We only need Vince if the Raptors will agree to take Houston from us. Until then, the hell with the Raptors.

Posted by raven:

You know we could do a vince + alvin williams + lammond murray swap for KT + TT + nazr.

Works under the cap.

Yet, do we need vince carter ?

I mean we need interior scoring from dampier and sweet if we have both, they'll need touches.

With marbury + houston + crawford, it may be hard if you add vince to succeed in even getting the ball down low.
The true Knickabocker..........
Kwazimodal
Posts: 20896
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 8/3/2004
Member: #728
8/5/2004  8:37 AM
I have a feeling that Toronto would want Sweetney in that deal to help them rebuild.
fishmike
Posts: 53149
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
8/5/2004  9:04 AM
I would rather stick w/ TT this year and see what he has. Its a better move going forward. Vince doesnt really fill a need here and getting him would probably just require us taking a bunch more lousy deals back.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EnySpree
Posts: 44917
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

8/5/2004  9:11 AM
Posted by diderotn:

We only need Vince if the Raptors will agree to take Houston from us. Until then, the hell with the Raptors.

Thats' what I say.....

Vince would only help if Houston is gone.....

Vince, Craw and Marbs in the Back court? Craw could still get his 30 plus backing up both spots.....Vince could spell Timmy too. That would be crazy.

Dampier already said he would sign for the mid if he had to.....well if he's gonna be dumb enough to say it then send Houston, KT and Nazr over to Toronto for Vince, Alvin, Simon and Theodore.

That would be:
Sweets
Timmy
Damp
Marbs
Vince

Craw, Baker, JYD, Penny, Moochie, Ariza

Yummy!

How crazy would that be?
Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC?t=z5pqPMhdiAZNwzcCGMkiFw&s=09
raven
Posts: 22454
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #316
Canada
8/5/2004  9:40 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

How crazy would that be?

As carzy as the gm who would agree on a deal that would send a player that fills seats to ny in exchange of an overpaid older player with one knee.
djsunyc
Posts: 44927
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
8/5/2004  10:01 AM
the title of the article is "Vince pushes for Knick deal" yet in the article itself, isola writes

"Steinberg would neither confirm nor deny reports that Carter is trying to orchestrate a trade to New York. Last week, a person close to Carter told the Daily News that he "absolutely wants to be traded to the Knicks.""

so now he makes a headline based on a source close to vince when vince and his agent are saying nothing.

just more evidence that isola gets his info from the espn boards.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
8/5/2004  10:25 AM
Vince would only help if Houston is gone

i disagree w/that...i think you'd want to hold onto a guy like Houston on a team w/Marbury, Craw & Vince who can all penetrate & find open teammates...you need some pure shooters who don't demand the ball who can add the perimeter threat...Houston would be a very valuable player for the Knicks on that roster.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
s3231
Posts: 23162
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #544
USA
8/5/2004  11:16 AM
As fishmike said, we don't really need Carter since we have TT at the SF position. Why take more bad contracts back when we have a good SF already? I think TT will surprise people this year and I want to give him a shot. Plus, we basically have no shot at Carter. If we can get Crawford and Dampier then we will be all set for now.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
raven
Posts: 22454
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #316
Canada
8/5/2004  11:23 AM
more is sometimes too much. If we somehow manage to get crawford and dampier, TT will be perfect as a low profile SF that won't demand the ball everytime on offense.

He'll play freed of pressure, as he won't have to be the man on a team that features so many scorers.

Keep TT, let vince rot where he is.
MaTT4281
Posts: 33792
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #538
USA
8/5/2004  11:24 AM
Posted by fishmike:

I would rather stick w/ TT this year and see what he has. Its a better move going forward. Vince doesnt really fill a need here and getting him would probably just require us taking a bunch more lousy deals back.

Agreed. I'm kinda sketchy about trading for Vince. I think if we can add Craw and Damp, we are solid. (Even Chad Ford called it rock solid in the front and back courts and deep on the bench.) Let's see how this team can play together before we add another player who constantly needs the ball.
KNICKSdom
Posts: 20799
Alba Posts: 8
Joined: 1/17/2004
Member: #545
USA
8/5/2004  11:45 AM
We don't need Vince if we get Crawford. I think we would take more bad contracts in a Vince trade which is just so blah. I want to move forward with Tim. He is mad and getting in shape for this upcoming season, I want to see his full potential as a Knick.
Knicks are happening and have a Unicorn.
NYKniCksFan87
Posts: 22170
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/13/2004
Member: #700
8/5/2004  11:48 AM
We dont need vince...vince is overated, and i dont think zeke would trade marbury who has performed consistently the past 6 yrs for a guy that missed alot of games the past 2-3 yrs. Why would u give up the guy that lead u to the playoffs for the 1st time in 3 yrs.

I would take marbury over vince anyday, matbury is more consistent and more durable.

dont get me wrong, VC is a nice player, but if we get crawford, we dont need him wit starbury, houston,crawford, anderson and hardaway we dont need another guard

PLZ ZEKE DONT TRADE AWAY MARBURY FOR VC!
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
technomaster
Posts: 23232
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
8/5/2004  1:59 PM
Alternatively, we don't need Marbury if we have Crawford. ESPN had a pretty good point about Crawford--- as a PG, he's got huge value. As a SG, he's just middle of the pack.

As I started thinking about in another thread, having a couple of big versatile guards might entire a championship-level coach (Phil Jackson) to come off his sabbatical and back to NY, where he should have been when we signed the wrong Jackson (Stu) over a decade ago.

Oddly enough, Crawford has some experience playing w/ the triangle offense, and Vince Carter could provide the flat-out scoring and athleticism of the Kobe/Jordan role. Note that based on his career assist average, Vince also seems to be an adept passer/ball distributor.

Tim Thomas would be useful in the Kukoc-type role, either as a spot up 3pt shooter or another ball distributer in the post-- maximizing his strengths.

The rest of the roster would be built with role players around these three--- with Vin Baker providing the workman-like Scott Williams/Stacey King role off the bench, Sweetney being the Horace Grant, Shandon Anderson the Pete Myers, Houston the Steve Kerr/Craig Hodges. I'm not sure who fits in as the Cartwright/Longley.

I'd imagine the other championship blueprint the Knicks could follow is that of Detroit 2004 championship team-- but there are issues. Marbury is better than Billups, but Rasheed is better than TT, Ben Wallace is better than KT/Sweetney, Tayshaun is better/more useful than Penny, and Hamilton is better than a gimpy Houston-- and probably better than Crawford at this stage.

Of course... Isiah is looking at the blueprint for his own championship teams in the late 80s...

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
nyvector16
Posts: 21308
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/9/2001
Member: #130
USA
8/5/2004  2:32 PM
Phil Jackson is the most overated coach in NBA history...

- Rode Jordan's coat tails to championships in Chicago
- Went into a sweetheart of a deal with Kobe and Shaq and rode their coat tails to Championships in LA

Riley could Outcoach Phil Jackson anytime...
Personally... I'd rather try to do something outside the box like try and snag Jim Boeheim from Syracuse (Only if Wilkins proves to be a bad fit for the team)...
nyballer
Posts: 21019
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/4/2001
Member: #108
USA
8/5/2004  4:22 PM
I know it isn't likely, but if we were going to trade marbury, wouldn't we try to get someone other than vince carter back? marbury has been healthy, vince hasnt, and i think we could get a better player back for marbury, ie marbury and TT for ray allen and rashard lewis? ray allen wants out and tt is a big 3 like rashard, but rashard imo is a better player. it would leave us with two similar players (houston and allen) but ray is an upgrade over a hurt houston, and with crawford in the backcourt wed have a really strong, young nucleus (crawford, allen, lewis, sweetney). with crawford's driving and kicking, sweetneys low post passing and allen's jumpshot, i can see that team going pretty far. i'm not saying we should trade stephon - in fact i think him and crawford and houston as our backcourt is going to be one of the strongest in the league, but if we do trade him i'd rather not trade him for a guy like vince carter.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
technomaster
Posts: 23232
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
8/5/2004  4:31 PM
Curious. Rashard/Allen for Marbury/TT would be fascinating. Allen is amazing (excellent PG skills for a guy who many thought was just an overrated shooter coming out of college)...

And Rashard is better, simply put.

What I like about Vince is that he's bigger/longer than Ray and carries more star power. Ray Allen is one of the purest shooters in the league, yet carries an excellent well-rounded game... kind of like Houston +1 assist and +1 rebound.

Both of these guys are clear upgrades over Houston. Don't get me wrong, I think Houston's a good player--- but with his knee issues and age, doesn't seem to have the shelf life of either of these guys.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
nyballer
Posts: 21019
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/4/2001
Member: #108
USA
8/5/2004  4:39 PM
Posted by technomaster:

Curious. Rashard/Allen for Marbury/TT would be fascinating. Allen is amazing (excellent PG skills for a guy who many thought was just an overrated shooter coming out of college)...

And Rashard is better, simply put.

What I like about Vince is that he's bigger/longer than Ray and carries more star power. Ray Allen is one of the purest shooters in the league, yet carries an excellent well-rounded game... kind of like Houston +1 assist and +1 rebound.

Both of these guys are clear upgrades over Houston. Don't get me wrong, I think Houston's a good player--- but with his knee issues and age, doesn't seem to have the shelf life of either of these guys.

i think the major lesson we need to take from layden is to avoid trading for players with injury problems. allen doesn't have any recurring, nagging injuries. also, personally i would rather put a winning team out on the court than a team with a lot of starpower. if the knicks are a winning team, they are going to sell out the garden every game.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/5/2004  5:14 PM
If Isiah didn't offer Marbury to try to get Kobe, how could anyone think he's gonna offer Marbury to try to get Carter or Rashard Lewis?
from the daily news (Vince Carter)

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy