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Phil And Older Rosters
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nixluva
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7/2/2016  12:09 AM
It's not that unusual for Phil to have an older team. He's not as fearful of older teams as many media and fans are. The Goal is to just get the players to the playoffs healthy. I believe that as much as they can, the Knicks will look to rest and take care of their vets. Fatigue is the biggest reason for serious injuries. Phil has done this before!

Phil's Chicago Bulls 72 win team 1995-96 They went on to win 2 more Titles and Jordan was 34 on the last Title team.


Rk Player Age ▾ G
1 James Edwards 40 28
2 Dennis Rodman 34 64
3 Michael Jordan 32 82
4 Ron Harper 32 80
5 Bill Wennington 32 71
6 Jack Haley 32 1
7 John Salley 31 17
8 Scottie Pippen 30 77
9 Steve Kerr 30 82
10 Toni Kukoc 27 81
11 Luc Longley 27 62
12 Jud Buechler 27 74
13 Randy Brown 27 68
14 Dickey Simpkins 23 60
15 Jason Caffey 22 57

2003-04 Lakers Finals Team


Rk Player Age ▾ G
1 Karl Malone 40 42
2 Horace Grant 38 55
3 Gary Payton 35 82
4 Rick Fox 34 38
5 Bryon Russell 33 72
6 Shaq O'Neal 31 67
7 Derek Fisher 29 82
8 Maurice Carter 27 4
9 Devean George 26 82
10 Ime Udoka 26 4
11 Kobe Bryant 25 65
12 S Medvedenko 24 68
13 Jannero Pargo 24 13
14 Kareem Rush 23 72
15 Luke Walton 23 72
16 Brian Cook 23 35
17 Jamal Sampson 20 10

2009-10 Lakers Title Team


Rk Player Age ▾ G
1 Derek Fisher 35 82
2 Kobe Bryant 31 73
3 Met World Peace 30 77
4 Lamar Odom 30 82
5 Pau Gasol 29 65
6 Luke Walton 29 29
7 D Ilunga-Mbenga 29 49
8 Josh Powell 27 63
9 Sasha Vujacic 25 67
10 Adam Morrison 25 31
11 Shannon Brown 24 82
12 Jordan Farmar 23 82
13 Andrew Bynum 22 65
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callmened
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7/2/2016  12:22 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/2/2016  12:26 AM
cute but what does that have to do with this:

- not the same players
- not the same injuries
- not the same talent
- not the same coach
- not the same decade
- not the same competition
- not the same rules

i can go on and on! now listen im not as pessimistic or optimistic as everyone else. i feel like im in the middle. lol. to me the job isnt complete yet. i trust phil knows what he's doing but im not sure what his teams from 20 yrs ago have to do with this team. if you ask me do i have confidence in phil, sure i do!

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
meloanyk
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7/2/2016  12:24 AM
Jackson is not strolling the sidelines so Hornachek and him have to be on the same page as far as player mins and periodic rests and Jackson has to provide Hornachek with a competent bench to do so. Being a former player, I believe Hornachek understands the rigors for older players. TT would have brought NYK a identity but he would not have been the right coach for this team regardless of past ties with Noah and Rose
CrushAlot
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7/2/2016  12:31 AM
meloanyk wrote:Jackson is not strolling the sidelines so Hornachek and him have to be on the same page as far as player mins and periodic rests and Jackson has to provide Hornachek with a competent bench to do so. Being a former player, I believe Hornachek understands the rigors for older players. TT would have brought NYK a identity but he would not have been the right coach for this team regardless of past ties with Noah and Rose
I think Hornacek was a great hire. I don't know what happened but it seems like Phil is allowing his coach to have a voice now and that is very different from Fisher and Rambis. I think Phil respects both Fish and Rambis but he obviously has a lot more confidence in Jeff. Simpatico or conflict gms and coaches both need to be strong enough to push for what they think will help the team win. Grunfeld/Vangundy was not a simpatico situation but it worked. Hornacek/Jax seems to be simpatico but both guys seem comfortable pushing for what they think is best for the team.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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7/2/2016  1:00 AM
callmened wrote:cute but what does that have to do with this:

- not the same players
- not the same injuries
- not the same talent
- not the same coach
- not the same decade
- not the same competition
- not the same rules

i can go on and on! now listen im not as pessimistic or optimistic as everyone else. i feel like im in the middle. lol. to me the job isnt complete yet. i trust phil knows what he's doing but im not sure what his teams from 20 yrs ago have to do with this team. if you ask me do i have confidence in phil, sure i do!

All of this stuff you chose to list has very little to do with the fact that Phil has a comfort level with older rosters and isn't as scared off as Media and some fans. I made that pretty clear. I listed 3 different rosters and so clearly none of those teams were the same. Some players of course overlap, but he's done it more than once.

Also it makes no sense bringing up the talent, decade, competition or rules. WTF man??? The main issue most are talking about is the age and health of the team. Those things are relevant to the topic of the thread. Phil has won with Older rosters or perhaps that FACT simply is too much for you to accept.

callmened
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7/2/2016  1:12 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/2/2016  1:13 AM
nixluva wrote:
callmened wrote:cute but what does that have to do with this:

- not the same players
- not the same injuries
- not the same talent
- not the same coach
- not the same decade
- not the same competition
- not the same rules

i can go on and on! now listen im not as pessimistic or optimistic as everyone else. i feel like im in the middle. lol. to me the job isnt complete yet. i trust phil knows what he's doing but im not sure what his teams from 20 yrs ago have to do with this team. if you ask me do i have confidence in phil, sure i do!

All of this stuff you chose to list has very little to do with the fact that Phil has a comfort level with older rosters and isn't as scared off as Media and some fans. I made that pretty clear. I listed 3 different rosters and so clearly none of those teams were the same. Some players of course overlap, but he's done it more than once.

Also it makes no sense bringing up the talent, decade, competition or rules. WTF man??? The main issue most are talking about is the age and health of the team. Those things are relevant to the topic of the thread. Phil has won with Older rosters or perhaps that FACT simply is too much for you to accept.

dude you dont know me and what i can or cant accept. lol. please dont insult me i wasnt trying to insult you

i have no problem with the age of this roster. age isnt a big time factor to me. in my opinion, the health (or lack of health) for the main players on this team (specifically noah and rose and possibly gordon) is a concern. can you at least admit that?

if youre point was simply to talk about age then sure i agree, age isnt a concern. YOURE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. i think the main concern is the HEALTH. show me a roster with these health concerns that phil has coached and then we can compare apples to apples.

but youre absolutely right - this topic was about age not health. to me thats an insignificant factor - this team isnt old at all. im more worried about health and depth

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
Bonn1997
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7/2/2016  8:01 AM
The trajectory of the players I think matters just as much as the age. Wade (if we get him), Melo, Rose, and Noah would have been a dream come true in 2011.
blkexec
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7/2/2016  8:58 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/2/2016  9:01 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:The trajectory of the players I think matters just as much as the age. Wade (if we get him), Melo, Rose, and Noah would have been a dream come true in 2011.

In 2011 that dream wouldve never been ossible. That's why we got them in 2016. If they were healthier and younger they wouldn't be a knick. To get this caliber of talent while they are still in their prime, you have to take a risk on some and spend money on others.

Its no different from what we've always done in the past.....Every GM or coach feels the pressure in NY to win now. We dont have a large rebuilding window like most small market tesms. Two years is the longest rebuild we've ever had and it got us KP. Now Phil is trying to win and build through the draft at the same time. That's the best way to build in this hungry for a championship city.....

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Bonn1997
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7/2/2016  9:04 AM
blkexec wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:The trajectory of the players I think matters just as much as the age. Wade (if we get him), Melo, Rose, and Noah would have been a dream come true in 2011.

In 2011 that dream wouldve never been ossible. That's why we got them in 2016. If they were healthier and younger they wouldn't be a knick. To get this caliber of talent while they are still in their prime, you have to take a risk on some and spend money on others.

Its no different from what we've always done in the pas
t.....Every GM or coach feels the pressure in NY to win now. We dont have a large rebuilding window like most small market tesms. Two years is the longest rebuild we've ever had and it got us KP. Now Phil is trying to win and build through the draft at the same time. That's the best way to build in this hungry for a championship city.....

I agree but that's the problem. How can we not have the window to do a legit rebuild but have a window to suck for the entire century so far?

blkexec
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7/2/2016  9:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/2/2016  9:45 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:The trajectory of the players I think matters just as much as the age. Wade (if we get him), Melo, Rose, and Noah would have been a dream come true in 2011.

In 2011 that dream wouldve never been ossible. That's why we got them in 2016. If they were healthier and younger they wouldn't be a knick. To get this caliber of talent while they are still in their prime, you have to take a risk on some and spend money on others.

Its no different from what we've always done in the pas
t.....Every GM or coach feels the pressure in NY to win now. We dont have a large rebuilding window like most small market tesms. Two years is the longest rebuild we've ever had and it got us KP. Now Phil is trying to win and build through the draft at the same time. That's the best way to build in this hungry for a championship city.....

I agree but that's the problem. How can we not have the window to do a legit rebuild but have a window to suck for the entire century so far?

Look in the mirror.....that's a reflection of NY culture. Fast pace city that never sleeps. Always in a rush....horns blowing....that's why people love us and hate us. It will never change. We don't give our team time to build. In the first year, there were numerous threads calling for Phil's head.....and melo trades....that was just the first season......2nd season was even worse. Sure nyers say we need to rebuild. After a month they throw everybody under the bus. Its not an environment to rebuild from the ground up like other slow market places.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
VCoug
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7/2/2016  9:52 AM
blkexec wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:The trajectory of the players I think matters just as much as the age. Wade (if we get him), Melo, Rose, and Noah would have been a dream come true in 2011.

In 2011 that dream wouldve never been ossible. That's why we got them in 2016. If they were healthier and younger they wouldn't be a knick. To get this caliber of talent while they are still in their prime, you have to take a risk on some and spend money on others.

Its no different from what we've always done in the pas
t.....Every GM or coach feels the pressure in NY to win now. We dont have a large rebuilding window like most small market tesms. Two years is the longest rebuild we've ever had and it got us KP. Now Phil is trying to win and build through the draft at the same time. That's the best way to build in this hungry for a championship city.....

I agree but that's the problem. How can we not have the window to do a legit rebuild but have a window to suck for the entire century so far?

Look in the mirror.....that's a reflection of NY culture. Fast pace city that never sleeps. Always in a rush....horns blowing....that's why people love us and hate us. It will never change. We don't give our team time to build. In the first year, there were numerous threads calling for Phil's head.....and melo trades....that was just the first season......2nd season was even worse. Sure nyers say we need to rebuild. After a month they throw everybody under the bus. Its not an environment to rebuild from the ground up like other slow market places.

I agree. You obviously can't rebuild in NY but it's perfectly OK to be terrible for 15 years.

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GustavBahler
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7/2/2016  10:08 AM
Not going for the quick fix for one season netted us a possible future franchise player in Porzingis, but I keep hearing that only panic moves work in NY. Fans saw that a little patience can go a long way. Im not so convinced that Knicks fans would have revolted if we hadn't made these moves.

I have a hard time believing that someone who has preached the long game since he got here, wanting to break from the mistakes of the past, has suddenly become a disciple of the quick fix. I would be very surprised if Dolan didn't have a talk with Phil.

Last season was a fiasco from a coaching standpoint. Phil keeping his distance in spite of his mega contract, the embarassment of the Fisher affair, and not making the playoffs as a result, I believe was enough for Dolan to tell Phil to speed up the timetable considerably.

I dont see Phil changing course like this suddenly without someone making him. He still is clinging on to the Triangle for dear life, he wanted to keep Rambis in spite of all the opposition, until it became too much. Phil is pretty set in his ways, I doubt this is being driven by him alone.

Bonn1997
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7/2/2016  10:22 AM
blkexec wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:The trajectory of the players I think matters just as much as the age. Wade (if we get him), Melo, Rose, and Noah would have been a dream come true in 2011.

In 2011 that dream wouldve never been ossible. That's why we got them in 2016. If they were healthier and younger they wouldn't be a knick. To get this caliber of talent while they are still in their prime, you have to take a risk on some and spend money on others.

Its no different from what we've always done in the pas
t.....Every GM or coach feels the pressure in NY to win now. We dont have a large rebuilding window like most small market tesms. Two years is the longest rebuild we've ever had and it got us KP. Now Phil is trying to win and build through the draft at the same time. That's the best way to build in this hungry for a championship city.....

I agree but that's the problem. How can we not have the window to do a legit rebuild but have a window to suck for the entire century so far?

Look in the mirror.....that's a reflection of NY culture. Fast pace city that never sleeps. Always in a rush....horns blowing....that's why people love us and hate us. It will never change. We don't give our team time to build. In the first year, there were numerous threads calling for Phil's head.....and melo trades....that was just the first season......2nd season was even worse. Sure nyers say we need to rebuild. After a month they throw everybody under the bus. Its not an environment to rebuild from the ground up like other slow market places.


Fast pace but getting nowhere? How do you know this is NY rather than Dolan specifically? Lots of other huge cities have built successful sports teams.
BRIGGS
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7/2/2016  10:32 AM
I wouldve liked to have acquired a couple of young athletic players in spots 14-15 --I think its imperative to hedge with this team and its injury history.

I love that trade Memphis did trading a top 15 restricted pick in 2020 for picks 31 and 35 in this draft. Even if we get Demetrius Jackson--we couldve had Brogdon and that good looking SG prospect from France that we couldve kept their for a year or two or a big like Hammons. It wouldve given us cheap quality depth.

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smackeddog
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7/2/2016  12:49 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I wouldve liked to have acquired a couple of young athletic players in spots 14-15 --I think its imperative to hedge with this team and its injury history.

I love that trade Memphis did trading a top 15 restricted pick in 2020 for picks 31 and 35 in this draft. Even if we get Demetrius Jackson--we couldve had Brogdon and that good looking SG prospect from France that we couldve kept their for a year or two or a big like Hammons. It wouldve given us cheap quality depth.

At least we got the Bulls 2017 second rounder- judging by their moves this offseason, it could turn out to be pretty high.

nixluva
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7/2/2016  12:56 PM
Phil is completely aware that you can win a Title with older players. He's done it before and he's not the only one. Look at the number of games played by the older guys!

Spurs 2013-14 Title Team


Rk Player Age ▾ G
1 Tim Duncan 37 74
2 Manu Ginobili 36 68
3 Matt Bonner 33 61
4 Tony Parker 31 68
5 Boris Diaw 31 79
6 Tiago Splitter 29 59
7 Shannon Brown 28 10
8 Othyus Jeffers 28 4
9 Marco Belinelli 27 80
10 Aron Baynes 27 53
11 Danny Green 26 68
12 Jeff Ayres 26 73
13 Nando De Colo 26 26
14 Damion James 26 5
15 Patrick Mills 25 81
16 Malcolm Thomas 25 1
17 Austin Daye 25 14
18 Kawhi Leonard 22 66
19 Cory Joseph 22 68
callmened
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7/2/2016  12:57 PM
i wouldnt characterize this knicks roster as old though
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
EnySpree
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7/2/2016  1:20 PM
callmened wrote:i wouldnt characterize this knicks roster as old though

Calderon was the oldest guy in the trade at 34. Rolo is 28. Rose is still only 27. Justin Holiday is 27. Noah is 31...

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callmened
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7/2/2016  1:25 PM
exactly. i think melo is the oldest at age 32. this is NOT an old team
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
nixluva
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7/2/2016  1:38 PM
callmened wrote:exactly. i think melo is the oldest at age 32. this is NOT an old team

My point is that people are worried about the fact that the guys we're adding are going to be going into older ages thru their time with the Knicks. It's not just about THIS SEASON but the next 3-4 seasons. Also it's not that EVERY player on the team is older but rather that KEY players on the team are older. Phil values vet experience and has seen it work for him in the past.
Phil And Older Rosters

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