Knicksfan wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Noah's contract better be 2-3 years tops, anything longer than that, and Phil officially took too much acid.

I'm "okay" with Rose/Noah moves, as long as we'll have enough to max someone out next year.

Only negative with these moves (besides the obvious health question marks) is it'll jeopardize our draft position in the best draft in years. With these moves we'll be around a .500 team, we'll be picking around 15 instead of 5, and not have that quality stud of a player that can play with KP for a decade.

Of course this the Knicks way....mortgage the future for the mediocre now.

Its a deep draft said to be 1-15 full with great potential guys. We can compete as hard as we want and still come up with a solid player for KP to build a duo.

And, come on, the same "Knicks mortgaging the future" has gotten old, especially when this new management hasn't done so. Not only do we still have KP, but we have been active trying to get young players even without the draft picks that were traded before this regime. I do believe the Knicks are trying to win now, but are also trying to be flexible with their future and do have in mind that the future is KP.

I think the Knicks have set themselves nicely for a "low risk / high reward season." If everything goes wrong with Rose, Melo and the rest of the team, a high pick will take us back up. If everything goes right, we may find out the meaning of the "something special is about to happen" premonition Rose gave in his introduction.

If the Knicks commit $18m per to Noah, They'll have $10-$12m to commit to a sub par shooting guard they'll overpay. Then there's still the bench where depth will be a major key with injury prone players like Rose, Noah, and Melo. Are they bringing back Lance Thomas? And at what price?

It'll be best case the 54 win season all over again, with the team held together with duct tape and elmer's glue, and a ton of veteran minimum contracts. And the eventual bust out in the 1st or 2nd round.

The real best case scenario is the Knicks sign Noah for only a 1 or 2 year rental, fill out SG and the bench with only 1 or 2 yr roster filler, and we go armed to the teeth in 2017 with $60 mill in cap space and a top 5 pick.

Knicks History tells us we'll overpay for Noah with a 4 year deal, and then sign a generic shooting guard to a 4 year $40 mill contract, essentially PHUCKING US UP THE BUTT for the future, draft pick and cap space be damned.

I'll keep my mind open until everything's offical though...

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Noah's been on a downward trajectory starting 2 years ago. I don't think a healthy Noah ages 31 to 35 will be better than Rolo at 27-31.

I'll give you the injury thing, but do you guys only look at offensive stats when making these determinations? Look at what he has done besides scoring the past two seasons when he played. It's exactly what this team needs. Yes, the injury cloud is a concern but I will reserve judgement until we see what the contract is going to be.

I'm looking at the advanced stats - Win Shares, Box +/-, PER, etc. He was definitely good but he wasn't great 2 years ago. On average players sharply decline through their 30s too. What are you looking at on defense anyway?
His last healthy season, I see 11 points, 1 block, 1 steal per 36 min and an opponent production of 17.1 (which means slightly worse defense than league average). His player tracking #s indicate pretty good defense this year. When you take into account age, injury, and trajectory, I think a large ($18 mil per) long-term contract is a bad idea.

It's the KNICKS. It's where bad ideas and overpaid players are allowed to retire gracefully after getting chucked out by other NBA teams. SSDD

It's chuckbuck. It's where a team with bad ideas and overpaid players chucked out by other NBA teams still command his attention, interest and loyalty.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Noah's contract better be 2-3 years tops, anything longer than that, and Phil officially took too much acid.

I'm "okay" with Rose/Noah moves, as long as we'll have enough to max someone out next year.

Only negative with these moves (besides the obvious health question marks) is it'll jeopardize our draft position in the best draft in years. With these moves we'll be around a .500 team, we'll be picking around 15 instead of 5, and not have that quality stud of a player that can play with KP for a decade.

Of course this the Knicks way....mortgage the future for the mediocre now.

Its a deep draft said to be 1-15 full with great potential guys. We can compete as hard as we want and still come up with a solid player for KP to build a duo.

And, come on, the same "Knicks mortgaging the future" has gotten old, especially when this new management hasn't done so. Not only do we still have KP, but we have been active trying to get young players even without the draft picks that were traded before this regime. I do believe the Knicks are trying to win now, but are also trying to be flexible with their future and do have in mind that the future is KP.

I think the Knicks have set themselves nicely for a "low risk / high reward season." If everything goes wrong with Rose, Melo and the rest of the team, a high pick will take us back up. If everything goes right, we may find out the meaning of the "something special is about to happen" premonition Rose gave in his introduction.

If the Knicks commit $18m per to Noah, They'll have $10-$12m to commit to a sub par shooting guard they'll overpay. Then there's still the bench where depth will be a major key with injury prone players like Rose, Noah, and Melo. Are they bringing back Lance Thomas? And at what price?

It'll be best case the 54 win season all over again, with the team held together with duct tape and elmer's glue, and a ton of veteran minimum contracts. And the eventual bust out in the 1st or 2nd round.

The real best case scenario is the Knicks sign Noah for only a 1 or 2 year rental, fill out SG and the bench with only 1 or 2 yr roster filler, and we go armed to the teeth in 2017 with $60 mill in cap space and a top 5 pick.

Knicks History tells us we'll overpay for Noah with a 4 year deal, and then sign a generic shooting guard to a 4 year $40 mill contract, essentially PHUCKING US UP THE BUTT for the future, draft pick and cap space be damned.

I'll keep my mind open until everything's offical though...

SupremeCommander wrote:I think if you're comparing Noah to Looez then you also have to compare Grant/Calderon to Rose. I think when you look at it holistically it makes more sense. I think if we can resign our guys and one more SG it isn't as dire as some make it out to be. Don't get me wrong it's not that great but where did our picks end up again? I think this proposed team is good enough to make noise in the east. If we fill out the roster with the equivalent of Kidd, KT, Rasheed, etc. on lle deals I think we can get through injury. Just need guys to be able to play at 85%

Let's also not forget if Lopez was a fa this year he'd be getting paid more then Noah.
Also I think Phil will give him a 2 year with a player option for 3. Let's not for get the cap will go up even higher next year . 18 for Noah is a good fair deal. Put into account he's a locker room leader vocal on the court leader two things the Knicks desperately need . If his court vision rubs off on KP it's all gravy after that .

Noah
KP
Melo
Rose

Core 4 man that's a nasty core

CrushAlot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Noah's contract better be 2-3 years tops, anything longer than that, and Phil officially took too much acid.

I'm "okay" with Rose/Noah moves, as long as we'll have enough to max someone out next year.

Only negative with these moves (besides the obvious health question marks) is it'll jeopardize our draft position in the best draft in years. With these moves we'll be around a .500 team, we'll be picking around 15 instead of 5, and not have that quality stud of a player that can play with KP for a decade.

Of course this the Knicks way....mortgage the future for the mediocre now.

Its a deep draft said to be 1-15 full with great potential guys. We can compete as hard as we want and still come up with a solid player for KP to build a duo.

And, come on, the same "Knicks mortgaging the future" has gotten old, especially when this new management hasn't done so. Not only do we still have KP, but we have been active trying to get young players even without the draft picks that were traded before this regime. I do believe the Knicks are trying to win now, but are also trying to be flexible with their future and do have in mind that the future is KP.

I think the Knicks have set themselves nicely for a "low risk / high reward season." If everything goes wrong with Rose, Melo and the rest of the team, a high pick will take us back up. If everything goes right, we may find out the meaning of the "something special is about to happen" premonition Rose gave in his introduction.

If the Knicks commit $18m per to Noah, They'll have $10-$12m to commit to a sub par shooting guard they'll overpay. Then there's still the bench where depth will be a major key with injury prone players like Rose, Noah, and Melo. Are they bringing back Lance Thomas? And at what price?

It'll be best case the 54 win season all over again, with the team held together with duct tape and elmer's glue, and a ton of veteran minimum contracts. And the eventual bust out in the 1st or 2nd round.

The real best case scenario is the Knicks sign Noah for only a 1 or 2 year rental, fill out SG and the bench with only 1 or 2 yr roster filler, and we go armed to the teeth in 2017 with $60 mill in cap space and a top 5 pick.

Knicks History tells us we'll overpay for Noah with a 4 year deal, and then sign a generic shooting guard to a 4 year $40 mill contract, essentially PHUCKING US UP THE BUTT for the future, draft pick and cap space be damned.

I'll keep my mind open until everything's offical though...

This isn't like the 2012 team. That team was really old. After Shump the youngest player was 27. That team had a 40 yr old, a 39 yr old, two 38 yr olds, and two 35 year olds. Not even close to what the Knicks are doing now. The influx of youth for that year was Cope and he is older than Melo.

Melo is 32 and Noah is 31. Both haven't come close to playing full season in quite a long time. Rose will be turning 28, but he's only played 127 out of a possible 246 regular season games the last 3 years (not even counting the entire 2013 season he missed).

This is exactly the 2012 squad all over again. A win now or forever hold your peace type team. If they don't win anything significant this year, it'll be torn apart and the reset button will be pressed once again.

Do or die team. History repeating itself once again.

CrushAlot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Noah's contract better be 2-3 years tops, anything longer than that, and Phil officially took too much acid.

I'm "okay" with Rose/Noah moves, as long as we'll have enough to max someone out next year.

Only negative with these moves (besides the obvious health question marks) is it'll jeopardize our draft position in the best draft in years. With these moves we'll be around a .500 team, we'll be picking around 15 instead of 5, and not have that quality stud of a player that can play with KP for a decade.

Of course this the Knicks way....mortgage the future for the mediocre now.

Its a deep draft said to be 1-15 full with great potential guys. We can compete as hard as we want and still come up with a solid player for KP to build a duo.

And, come on, the same "Knicks mortgaging the future" has gotten old, especially when this new management hasn't done so. Not only do we still have KP, but we have been active trying to get young players even without the draft picks that were traded before this regime. I do believe the Knicks are trying to win now, but are also trying to be flexible with their future and do have in mind that the future is KP.

I think the Knicks have set themselves nicely for a "low risk / high reward season." If everything goes wrong with Rose, Melo and the rest of the team, a high pick will take us back up. If everything goes right, we may find out the meaning of the "something special is about to happen" premonition Rose gave in his introduction.

If the Knicks commit $18m per to Noah, They'll have $10-$12m to commit to a sub par shooting guard they'll overpay. Then there's still the bench where depth will be a major key with injury prone players like Rose, Noah, and Melo. Are they bringing back Lance Thomas? And at what price?

It'll be best case the 54 win season all over again, with the team held together with duct tape and elmer's glue, and a ton of veteran minimum contracts. And the eventual bust out in the 1st or 2nd round.

The real best case scenario is the Knicks sign Noah for only a 1 or 2 year rental, fill out SG and the bench with only 1 or 2 yr roster filler, and we go armed to the teeth in 2017 with $60 mill in cap space and a top 5 pick.

Knicks History tells us we'll overpay for Noah with a 4 year deal, and then sign a generic shooting guard to a 4 year $40 mill contract, essentially PHUCKING US UP THE BUTT for the future, draft pick and cap space be damned.

I'll keep my mind open until everything's offical though...

This isn't like the 2012 team. That team was really old. After Shump the youngest player was 27. That team had a 40 yr old, a 39 yr old, two 38 yr olds, and two 35 year olds. Not even close to what the Knicks are doing now. The influx of youth for that year was Cope and he is older than Melo.

This is clearly a better version of that 54 win team. People forget that Lebron who just won a Title is the same age as Melo and Noah. Yes there have been missed games and injuries but for both Rose and Noah we may be getting them at just the right time to get bounce back seasons from them. Neither will have to carry the team since we have other players who can help to carry the action. The more talent you have the less each one has to do and thus is makes things easier for players to stay healthy.

We will have young players on this team!!! Naysayers keep assuming that we somehow won't have any youth and that's not true.

ChuckBuck wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Noah's contract better be 2-3 years tops, anything longer than that, and Phil officially took too much acid.

I'm "okay" with Rose/Noah moves, as long as we'll have enough to max someone out next year.

Only negative with these moves (besides the obvious health question marks) is it'll jeopardize our draft position in the best draft in years. With these moves we'll be around a .500 team, we'll be picking around 15 instead of 5, and not have that quality stud of a player that can play with KP for a decade.

Of course this the Knicks way....mortgage the future for the mediocre now.

Its a deep draft said to be 1-15 full with great potential guys. We can compete as hard as we want and still come up with a solid player for KP to build a duo.

And, come on, the same "Knicks mortgaging the future" has gotten old, especially when this new management hasn't done so. Not only do we still have KP, but we have been active trying to get young players even without the draft picks that were traded before this regime. I do believe the Knicks are trying to win now, but are also trying to be flexible with their future and do have in mind that the future is KP.

I think the Knicks have set themselves nicely for a "low risk / high reward season." If everything goes wrong with Rose, Melo and the rest of the team, a high pick will take us back up. If everything goes right, we may find out the meaning of the "something special is about to happen" premonition Rose gave in his introduction.

If the Knicks commit $18m per to Noah, They'll have $10-$12m to commit to a sub par shooting guard they'll overpay. Then there's still the bench where depth will be a major key with injury prone players like Rose, Noah, and Melo. Are they bringing back Lance Thomas? And at what price?

It'll be best case the 54 win season all over again, with the team held together with duct tape and elmer's glue, and a ton of veteran minimum contracts. And the eventual bust out in the 1st or 2nd round.

The real best case scenario is the Knicks sign Noah for only a 1 or 2 year rental, fill out SG and the bench with only 1 or 2 yr roster filler, and we go armed to the teeth in 2017 with $60 mill in cap space and a top 5 pick.

Knicks History tells us we'll overpay for Noah with a 4 year deal, and then sign a generic shooting guard to a 4 year $40 mill contract, essentially PHUCKING US UP THE BUTT for the future, draft pick and cap space be damned.

I'll keep my mind open until everything's offical though...

This isn't like the 2012 team. That team was really old. After Shump the youngest player was 27. That team had a 40 yr old, a 39 yr old, two 38 yr olds, and two 35 year olds. Not even close to what the Knicks are doing now. The influx of youth for that year was Cope and he is older than Melo.

Melo is 32 and Noah is 31. Both haven't come close to playing full season in quite a long time. Rose will be turning 28, but he's only played 127 out of a possible 246 regular season games the last 3 years (not even counting the entire 2013 season he missed).

This is exactly the 2012 squad all over again. A win now or forever hold your peace type team. If they don't win anything significant this year, it'll be torn apart and the reset button will be pressed once again.

Do or die team. History repeating itself once again.

That 2012 team never had a player the caliber of porzingod or a healthy Rose for that matter. 2012 didn't have a core of guys in the prime even if it's later in their prime

If healthy Noah Rose addition to our already stars is the best team put together since gosh I would say Ewing days but even he got screwed with just blue collar players most of his career .

This is the best core I think I've ever seen in my knick history dating back to 86

Rose Ny has not had a pg of his talent since Clyde, rose had a great second half and is fully healthy

Noah is a super glue guy warrior VOCAL LEADER we need a guy who holds people accountable and gets under opponents skin. He's fully healthy

We have Porzingod we have never nor has any other team had such a talent as porzingod he's going to go down as one of the greatest.

Melo a scoring machine one of the best in the game

We sure surrounded KP with some great in prime talent to learn and grow .. Again KP is the center piece to this team not melo,Rose,or Noah

It's all about KP and Phil knows it .