BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Forbes another 3 guys has 8 3s in 2 games and missed only 4 times. I begged to get him and we took Baker??

Briggs...you do know that a UFA and his agent also have a say in where they go. For all you know he chose SA for this or that reason over the Knicks or other teams. Maybe he feared the wrath of UK posters...who knows?

We are not privy to what is going on behind the scenes...or at least I'm not.

$$$ thats the language that speaks to the agent. Bryn said that he had guaranteed money from Philly and SA for the full year. Right now I guarantee that a few teams who need shooting are probably scratching their heads. Just looking at Baker--he looks like it will take time in development leagues to adjust to the longer 3. It was a natural shot for Bryn who has has seamlessly transitioned. The thing that you like watching bryn was the defense use of the floater and step in mid range .

Ill say this about Christian Wood--hes as good as what we saw with Brice Johnson today if not better because he seems to be better in the low block. Yet he also has range out to 3. He lifted weights and put on 20 pounds--he looked much bigger. The guy is a steal from the PF position and he can help in every area rebounding interior offense and dfense stretching the floor--he has oodles of talent and he is playing much harder than last year.

When I see a guy come out to early and I can see what he is I say this is a lottery pick next year. Just in the last two years I think I pegged Grayson Allen and Christian Wood. I also think Derrick Jones wouldve been a lottery pick and I had Diamond Stone 17th in my mock. If you want to try to make something out of a Ronny Baker--good luck--but the 14-15 slots should be for a higher plain. The older guys I picked Bryn Forbes Georges Niang--how have they fared so far? Pretty good. Im on the hook for Malcolm Brogdon well see what he can do.

What is Forbes' position, Briggs.

6'3 with shoes, not a great vertical, small wingspan...His stats say that he is a limited rebounder, not a great passer, rarely makes steals, but a darn good shooter.

He is not a PG from what I know, and his wingspan will not compensate for his lack of size at the 2.

He is basically a miniature version of Steve Novak, more or less...no?

He's an elite type 3 point shooter who understands the nuances of the game. He's explosive accurate and plays with great passion. Over time he can transition into a combo guard but right now he's doing what he's good at making shots

If you honestly watched Baker and Forbes all year and walked away thinking Baker was superior this is not your niche

Their's either, apparently.

http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/NCAA-Seniors/

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Forbes another 3 guys has 8 3s in 2 games and missed only 4 times. I begged to get him and we took Baker??

Briggs...you do know that a UFA and his agent also have a say in where they go. For all you know he chose SA for this or that reason over the Knicks or other teams. Maybe he feared the wrath of UK posters...who knows?

We are not privy to what is going on behind the scenes...or at least I'm not.

$$$ thats the language that speaks to the agent. Bryn said that he had guaranteed money from Philly and SA for the full year. Right now I guarantee that a few teams who need shooting are probably scratching their heads. Just looking at Baker--he looks like it will take time in development leagues to adjust to the longer 3. It was a natural shot for Bryn who has has seamlessly transitioned. The thing that you like watching bryn was the defense use of the floater and step in mid range .

Ill say this about Christian Wood--hes as good as what we saw with Brice Johnson today if not better because he seems to be better in the low block. Yet he also has range out to 3. He lifted weights and put on 20 pounds--he looked much bigger. The guy is a steal from the PF position and he can help in every area rebounding interior offense and dfense stretching the floor--he has oodles of talent and he is playing much harder than last year.

When I see a guy come out to early and I can see what he is I say this is a lottery pick next year. Just in the last two years I think I pegged Grayson Allen and Christian Wood. I also think Derrick Jones wouldve been a lottery pick and I had Diamond Stone 17th in my mock. If you want to try to make something out of a Ronny Baker--good luck--but the 14-15 slots should be for a higher plain. The older guys I picked Bryn Forbes Georges Niang--how have they fared so far? Pretty good. Im on the hook for Malcolm Brogdon well see what he can do.

What is Forbes' position, Briggs.

6'3 with shoes, not a great vertical, small wingspan...His stats say that he is a limited rebounder, not a great passer, rarely makes steals, but a darn good shooter.

He is not a PG from what I know, and his wingspan will not compensate for his lack of size at the 2.

He is basically a miniature version of Steve Novak, more or less...no?

He's an elite type 3 point shooter who understands the nuances of the game. He's explosive accurate and plays with great passion. Over time he can transition into a combo guard but right now he's doing what he's good at making shots

If you honestly watched Baker and Forbes all year and walked away thinking Baker was superior this is not your niche

Their's either, apparently.

http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/NCAA-Seniors/

I dont go by draftexpress--I use my eyes. Bryn Forbes dominated some games this year Ron Baker for a 5th year senior was porous and underwhelming. I dont even know his position--what does a 6-4 220 pound non athletic player play? He cant dribble and he hasnt shown he can throw a decent pass at a higher level of talent--if he cant do it here--is he going to do it in the nBA? Its one thing making shots in practice--the speed of the game has caught up to him. Hes going to bust--no doubt in my mind. Bryn Forbes is an electric 3 point shooter who understands the nuances of the game and has sneaky quickness and a steph curry like release and accuracy. Baker thinks about shooting it Forbes shoots it--two different players not close.

Christian Wood is much much much better than people realize. Hes a Lamarcus Aldridge. This guy wouldve been the 5th pick in this draft if he stayed in school

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Forbes another 3 guys has 8 3s in 2 games and missed only 4 times. I begged to get him and we took Baker??

Briggs...you do know that a UFA and his agent also have a say in where they go. For all you know he chose SA for this or that reason over the Knicks or other teams. Maybe he feared the wrath of UK posters...who knows?

We are not privy to what is going on behind the scenes...or at least I'm not.

$$$ thats the language that speaks to the agent. Bryn said that he had guaranteed money from Philly and SA for the full year. Right now I guarantee that a few teams who need shooting are probably scratching their heads. Just looking at Baker--he looks like it will take time in development leagues to adjust to the longer 3. It was a natural shot for Bryn who has has seamlessly transitioned. The thing that you like watching bryn was the defense use of the floater and step in mid range .

Ill say this about Christian Wood--hes as good as what we saw with Brice Johnson today if not better because he seems to be better in the low block. Yet he also has range out to 3. He lifted weights and put on 20 pounds--he looked much bigger. The guy is a steal from the PF position and he can help in every area rebounding interior offense and dfense stretching the floor--he has oodles of talent and he is playing much harder than last year.

When I see a guy come out to early and I can see what he is I say this is a lottery pick next year. Just in the last two years I think I pegged Grayson Allen and Christian Wood. I also think Derrick Jones wouldve been a lottery pick and I had Diamond Stone 17th in my mock. If you want to try to make something out of a Ronny Baker--good luck--but the 14-15 slots should be for a higher plain. The older guys I picked Bryn Forbes Georges Niang--how have they fared so far? Pretty good. Im on the hook for Malcolm Brogdon well see what he can do.

What is Forbes' position, Briggs.

6'3 with shoes, not a great vertical, small wingspan...His stats say that he is a limited rebounder, not a great passer, rarely makes steals, but a darn good shooter.

He is not a PG from what I know, and his wingspan will not compensate for his lack of size at the 2.

He is basically a miniature version of Steve Novak, more or less...no?

He's an elite type 3 point shooter who understands the nuances of the game. He's explosive accurate and plays with great passion. Over time he can transition into a combo guard but right now he's doing what he's good at making shots

If you honestly watched Baker and Forbes all year and walked away thinking Baker was superior this is not your niche

Their's either, apparently.

http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/NCAA-Seniors/

I dont go by draftexpress--I use my eyes.

Not the point.

But I'm pretty sure draftexpress uses their eyes, is the point.

I suspect Sam Vecenie has eyes too.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/prospect-rankings

And Aran Smith.

http://www.nbadraft.net/ranking/bigboard

The point isn't they're all right and you're wrong. Who the hell knows.

If you want to keep ignoring the data and your own track record and pretending you have some sort of skill at this over others you don't exploit professionally, that's fine, you're allowed.

But don't make it like anyone who has seen these players would agree with you. Quite obviously that is not the case.

The first post I ever made on a Knick message board--and a few of the people who post where there on the old MSG boards know this was to just ask the Knicks tolook/ draft a guy by the name of Michael Redd in 2000 and we took Lavor Postell just a few spots before him rd 2 2000. Ive made a few bad ones but the overall body of work now for 15+ years has been off the charts. Just take a look at the guys I picked the last two years--there all playing good. Its not luck or coincidence--Im good at spotting NBA players from the college ranks. I remember posting about Jeremy Lin while he was a junior at Harvard saying hes an NBA player. I remember when Chris Kaman was a complete nothing when I saw him play and I came on this board and said next year hes a lottery pick--bang pick 6. I got to see Andrew Bynum play in person at Uconn practicing against Tarvis Knight and Jake Voshkul and I knew at 17 this guy could be a star and made over 300 posts on why the Knicks should take him--we took Channing Frye--I did the same thing with Amare Studemire aftre seeing him play twice in AAU--that was prep to pros. I could sit here and name a lot of good ones--some bad ones too like Rodney White Anthony Randolph--and you learn along the way that talent is not everything--although those guys had NBA talent but not the mindset. And this is not trying to make a good pick #1 I try to make a good pick 46 to me which is more important than pick 1--everyone can get pick 1--Its pick 46 like the Spurs always do--they seem to get it right.

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Forbes another 3 guys has 8 3s in 2 games and missed only 4 times. I begged to get him and we took Baker??

Briggs...you do know that a UFA and his agent also have a say in where they go. For all you know he chose SA for this or that reason over the Knicks or other teams. Maybe he feared the wrath of UK posters...who knows?

We are not privy to what is going on behind the scenes...or at least I'm not.

$$$ thats the language that speaks to the agent. Bryn said that he had guaranteed money from Philly and SA for the full year. Right now I guarantee that a few teams who need shooting are probably scratching their heads. Just looking at Baker--he looks like it will take time in development leagues to adjust to the longer 3. It was a natural shot for Bryn who has has seamlessly transitioned. The thing that you like watching bryn was the defense use of the floater and step in mid range .

Ill say this about Christian Wood--hes as good as what we saw with Brice Johnson today if not better because he seems to be better in the low block. Yet he also has range out to 3. He lifted weights and put on 20 pounds--he looked much bigger. The guy is a steal from the PF position and he can help in every area rebounding interior offense and dfense stretching the floor--he has oodles of talent and he is playing much harder than last year.

When I see a guy come out to early and I can see what he is I say this is a lottery pick next year. Just in the last two years I think I pegged Grayson Allen and Christian Wood. I also think Derrick Jones wouldve been a lottery pick and I had Diamond Stone 17th in my mock. If you want to try to make something out of a Ronny Baker--good luck--but the 14-15 slots should be for a higher plain. The older guys I picked Bryn Forbes Georges Niang--how have they fared so far? Pretty good. Im on the hook for Malcolm Brogdon well see what he can do.

What is Forbes' position, Briggs.

6'3 with shoes, not a great vertical, small wingspan...His stats say that he is a limited rebounder, not a great passer, rarely makes steals, but a darn good shooter.

He is not a PG from what I know, and his wingspan will not compensate for his lack of size at the 2.

He is basically a miniature version of Steve Novak, more or less...no?

He's an elite type 3 point shooter who understands the nuances of the game. He's explosive accurate and plays with great passion. Over time he can transition into a combo guard but right now he's doing what he's good at making shots

If you honestly watched Baker and Forbes all year and walked away thinking Baker was superior this is not your niche

Look at the Forbes line when he scored 23, and then look at Baker's line today,

Outside of his scoring, Forbes had 3 rebounds, 1 foul, 0 assists, 2 turnovers, 0 steals in 28 minutes.

Besides Baker's points he had 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 steals, 3 turnovers, and 5 fouls in 33 minutes.

I'll let you and others draw conclusions from the two lines.

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Forbes another 3 guys has 8 3s in 2 games and missed only 4 times. I begged to get him and we took Baker??

Briggs...you do know that a UFA and his agent also have a say in where they go. For all you know he chose SA for this or that reason over the Knicks or other teams. Maybe he feared the wrath of UK posters...who knows?

We are not privy to what is going on behind the scenes...or at least I'm not.

$$$ thats the language that speaks to the agent. Bryn said that he had guaranteed money from Philly and SA for the full year. Right now I guarantee that a few teams who need shooting are probably scratching their heads. Just looking at Baker--he looks like it will take time in development leagues to adjust to the longer 3. It was a natural shot for Bryn who has has seamlessly transitioned. The thing that you like watching bryn was the defense use of the floater and step in mid range .

Ill say this about Christian Wood--hes as good as what we saw with Brice Johnson today if not better because he seems to be better in the low block. Yet he also has range out to 3. He lifted weights and put on 20 pounds--he looked much bigger. The guy is a steal from the PF position and he can help in every area rebounding interior offense and dfense stretching the floor--he has oodles of talent and he is playing much harder than last year.

When I see a guy come out to early and I can see what he is I say this is a lottery pick next year. Just in the last two years I think I pegged Grayson Allen and Christian Wood. I also think Derrick Jones wouldve been a lottery pick and I had Diamond Stone 17th in my mock. If you want to try to make something out of a Ronny Baker--good luck--but the 14-15 slots should be for a higher plain. The older guys I picked Bryn Forbes Georges Niang--how have they fared so far? Pretty good. Im on the hook for Malcolm Brogdon well see what he can do.

What is Forbes' position, Briggs.

6'3 with shoes, not a great vertical, small wingspan...His stats say that he is a limited rebounder, not a great passer, rarely makes steals, but a darn good shooter.

He is not a PG from what I know, and his wingspan will not compensate for his lack of size at the 2.

He is basically a miniature version of Steve Novak, more or less...no?

He's an elite type 3 point shooter who understands the nuances of the game. He's explosive accurate and plays with great passion. Over time he can transition into a combo guard but right now he's doing what he's good at making shots

If you honestly watched Baker and Forbes all year and walked away thinking Baker was superior this is not your niche

Come on...I got plenty of niches...not need to get personal.

Look at the Forbes line when he scored 23, and then look at Baker's line today,

Outside of his scoring, Forbes had 3 rebounds, 1 foul, 0 assists, 2 turnovers, 0 steals in 28 minutes.

Besides Baker's points he had 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 steals, 3 turnovers, and 5 fouls in 33 minutes.

I'll let you and others draw conclusions from the two lines.

Before the start of the 2nd half Baker over 3.5 games was shooting 16%--he did go 7-9 in the 2nd half and played a solid last two minutes where he hit 3 of his 3's

Forbes has 11 rebounds through 2 games and his true FG% is 90%. If you watched the games hes played tight D even his coach was happy on the interview on the telecast--I saw Baker's man go around him many times--he had some steals and he had some olee's. He played a solid 2nd half but he was given the time that most are not afforded. Most players who go 1-6 in period 1 in SL dont get to stay out for 34 minutes

I think when it comes to NBA time a fluid quick release with accurate range out to 30 feet is a weapon. Baker---I have my doubts he will be on the Knick bench when all is said and one--although I will root for him

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Mike Tobey has been impressive in SL.

So then maybe he'll be available for next year's SL season.

In fact, odds are he will.

EAch year UDFA and SL offer teams players that fill out rosters talking about odds. What are the odds of finding 7-0 260 pound Cs that can play a lick? Not high. From watching not only will Tobey get a camp invite he'll be a 14-15 th man with a nice chance to really develop

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Forbes another 3 guys has 8 3s in 2 games and missed only 4 times. I begged to get him and we took Baker??

Briggs...you do know that a UFA and his agent also have a say in where they go. For all you know he chose SA for this or that reason over the Knicks or other teams. Maybe he feared the wrath of UK posters...who knows?

We are not privy to what is going on behind the scenes...or at least I'm not.

$$$ thats the language that speaks to the agent. Bryn said that he had guaranteed money from Philly and SA for the full year. Right now I guarantee that a few teams who need shooting are probably scratching their heads. Just looking at Baker--he looks like it will take time in development leagues to adjust to the longer 3. It was a natural shot for Bryn who has has seamlessly transitioned. The thing that you like watching bryn was the defense use of the floater and step in mid range .

Ill say this about Christian Wood--hes as good as what we saw with Brice Johnson today if not better because he seems to be better in the low block. Yet he also has range out to 3. He lifted weights and put on 20 pounds--he looked much bigger. The guy is a steal from the PF position and he can help in every area rebounding interior offense and dfense stretching the floor--he has oodles of talent and he is playing much harder than last year.

When I see a guy come out to early and I can see what he is I say this is a lottery pick next year. Just in the last two years I think I pegged Grayson Allen and Christian Wood. I also think Derrick Jones wouldve been a lottery pick and I had Diamond Stone 17th in my mock. If you want to try to make something out of a Ronny Baker--good luck--but the 14-15 slots should be for a higher plain. The older guys I picked Bryn Forbes Georges Niang--how have they fared so far? Pretty good. Im on the hook for Malcolm Brogdon well see what he can do.

What is Forbes' position, Briggs.

6'3 with shoes, not a great vertical, small wingspan...His stats say that he is a limited rebounder, not a great passer, rarely makes steals, but a darn good shooter.

He is not a PG from what I know, and his wingspan will not compensate for his lack of size at the 2.

He is basically a miniature version of Steve Novak, more or less...no?

He's an elite type 3 point shooter who understands the nuances of the game. He's explosive accurate and plays with great passion. Over time he can transition into a combo guard but right now he's doing what he's good at making shots

If you honestly watched Baker and Forbes all year and walked away thinking Baker was superior this is not your niche

Come on...I got plenty of niches...not need to get personal.

Look at the Forbes line when he scored 23, and then look at Baker's line today,

Outside of his scoring, Forbes had 3 rebounds, 1 foul, 0 assists, 2 turnovers, 0 steals in 28 minutes.

Besides Baker's points he had 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 steals, 3 turnovers, and 5 fouls in 33 minutes.

I'll let you and others draw conclusions from the two lines.

Before the start of the 2nd half Baker over 3.5 games was shooting 16%--he did go 7-9 in the 2nd half and played a solid last two minutes where he hit 3 of his 3's

Forbes has 11 rebounds through 2 games and his true FG% is 90%. If you watched the games hes played tight D even his coach was happy on the interview on the telecast--I saw Baker's man go around him many times--he had some steals and he had some olee's. He played a solid 2nd half but he was given the time that most are not afforded. Most players who go 1-6 in period 1 in SL dont get to stay out for 34 minutes

I think when it comes to NBA time a fluid quick release with accurate range out to 30 feet is a weapon. Baker---I have my doubts he will be on the Knick bench when all is said and one--although I will root for him

Briggs...in two games Forbes has not had an assist or a steal. 0 assists is more troubling, IMO.

Please tell me what position he would play on SA? Has minimal jumping ability, a small wingspan, and is only 6'3."

Seems to me that he has to be a PG, yet in 4 yrs of college playing significant minutes, he averaged about 1.3 APG.

If he becomes able to play the point and defend the position, you have a very good player when you add in his great shooting, but the guy is not going to be able to play SG in the NBA as a defender at this point.

J J Reddick comes to mind. As the nba has changed the last two years jj has also benefitted and become a more valuable piece

BRIGGS wrote:
J J Reddick comes to mind. As the nba has changed the last two years jj has also benefitted and become a more valuable piece

Watched the entire second half of the SA game vs Boston, and some of the first half, and focused almost exclusively on watching what Forbes was doing on the court.

Not overly concerned that Forbes was only 1/6 from 3, that is going to happen, but once again he ended up without a single assist, and they gave him no ball handling responsibilities at all, which is strange for a player who had talked about taking on more responsibilities distributing the ball.

Did some back cuts, but much of the time he was standing in the corner doing nothing...and you rarely saw him inside the 3pt line. I expect that he barely broke a sweat out there. Did not see him having to do much on D, either, and he never had to defend against any of the Celtics playing PG or play any kind of pressure defense.

Ryan Arcidiacono, another small guard on SA, seemed like a much more heady player and you actually noticed him on the floor, even though he didn't score much...Except for taking shots, Forbes was basically invisible.

Judging basketball talent might not be my niche, but I'll still hazard an opinion and say that Baker is a much more complete player than Forbes, and to be honest, it's not that close. I would even say that Randle is a better player based on the games I have seen so far.

I wouldve signed Christian Wood to a guaranteed three year contract
I wouldve give a partial guarantee for 1 year to Mike Tobey for a camp invite

I looked at the rosters of Las Vegas and their void of big men--have more guards to look at. So I would grab the one guy I really liked here for the team and put Tobey into camp. No Plumlee Baker is already on a partial guarantee so Im looking for one more guard essentially a third PG in Vegas if there is one that makes sense.

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I wouldve signed Christian Wood to a guaranteed three year contract

Let's tie two threads together.

The Spurs may be without Duncan (and it's now or next year)

The Spurs are likely losing Marjanovic.

The Spurs and Philly are 2 of only 4 teams in Utah so Spurs have seen him up close.

The Spurs are "the best organization in sports" for identifying young talent.

So why haven't the Spurs signed Wood, to even a one year, partial guarantee?

I had to answer the samne question when I went on a rant 6 years ago about why the Knicks should draft--then sign Hassan Whiteside. It turns out Whiteside was very good--just to young coming into the league. Wood has matured much quicker--hes a steal. We have no idea if Christian Wood has an offer or 6-7 offers but one team will be walking out with a top 5 type lottery talent in this year draft with Wood.