NardDogNation wrote:I know that the title is kinda clunky but would we be able to offer the Celtics a 2018 1st round pick swap and cash for their 16th and 23rd picks?

With all this talk about the Celtics wanting to trade out of the draft, I was wondering if this type of scenario would be feasible. Yes, the Celtics would be losing multiple picks but could potentially be gaining better quality if they continue to be better than us; which I presume would be good rationale on their part.

FYI, if we manage to accomplish it, I go with Denzel Valentine at 16 and Thon Maker at 23.

Why would Boston trade two 1st round picks for one 1st round pick when there's a good chance that in 2018 we're easily a playoff team and if free agency goes well for us this off season and the following off season we could be making some noise in the playoffs?? Players are gonna want to play with the KP/Melo combo and now we have a head coach that players want to play for.

EwingsGlass wrote:Basically you are trading three for one. Two picks for the option to switch. Not sure why Boston does this.

Boston is currently playing the quality vs quantity game. They have a bunch of picks moving forward- 8 in this particular draft- but none figure to be the game changers they need. And considering the depth of their roster, they can not legally draft that many players, which forces them to consider deals that exchange quantity for quality.

So if they figure that they'll be a better team than us in 2018, why not make this deal? They buy themselves 2 years to allow their current players to establish themselves (trade value) and avoid giving out gauranteed contracts to players in what people deem to be a "weak draft". Why wouldn't this make sense?

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I know that the title is kinda clunky but would we be able to offer the Celtics a 2018 1st round pick swap and cash for their 16th and 23rd picks?

With all this talk about the Celtics wanting to trade out of the draft, I was wondering if this type of scenario would be feasible. Yes, the Celtics would be losing multiple picks but could potentially be gaining better quality if they continue to be better than us; which I presume would be good rationale on their part.

FYI, if we manage to accomplish it, I go with Denzel Valentine at 16 and Thon Maker at 23.

Why would Boston trade two 1st round picks for one 1st round pick when there's a good chance that in 2018 we're easily a playoff team and if free agency goes well for us this off season and the following off season we could be making some noise in the playoffs?? Players are gonna want to play with the KP/Melo combo and now we have a head coach that players want to play for.

There's a very good chance that we are NOT a playoff team come 2018, if history has any barring on our future. Melo will be shadow of himself at this point and if we fail to sign any major free agents, all we'll have is Kristaps Porzingis...and who knows how he'll being fairing with injuries at his size. The fact of the matter is that we geniunely need help in the coming offseasons because what we have isn't stable enough a foundation.

So if I'm Boston and I've got 8 draft picks in this draft, and another 3 first round picks on average for the next couple of drafts, I'd consider taking a gamble. After all, what would the Celtics really be losing? They don't want or need those picks in the first place and have been attempting to overpay in this type of scenario since the 2015 draft when they offered the 3rd pick from this draft and 3 other first round picks to anyone willing to give them Justise Winslow.

Nalod wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Basically you are trading three for one. Two picks for the option to switch. Not sure why Boston does this.

The OP I think assumes we would have a pick higher next year.
In the freaky event we have injuries and we are lottery bound, the trade did not elevate us enough and I would think Boston would want no protection, and for us to do that would inhibit us.

How Phil gets us into the first round is lost on me unless we take back a bad contract as part of a package. Not saying it can't be done or we don't have the means, its just that its not obvious to me.

That is the rationale I'm using and I think it creates enough wiggle room for it to be a good gamble on our part. It'd buy us at least 2 seasons to leapfrog the Celtics in the powerrankings before they'd come looking to collect.

Like you said though, there is a lot that can go wrong on our end but unless Boston can acquire a gamechanger within that period, I'd feel that the difference in seeding between the two of us would not be that severe for me to pass on the opportunity to acquire a net gain of two first round picks...even in a "weak draft". Weak drafts have produced the likes of Giannias Atentokounmpo (2013), Draymond Green (2012), Jae Crowder (2012), Rudy Gobert (2013) and Michael Redd (2000) with mid-first rounders to mid-second rounders. If you know how to draft and can develop talent, I'd be willing to roll the dice in any draft. And while this draft might not be top-heavy, I think there will be some quality talent available in it throughout including Malachi Richardson, Denzel Valentine and Thon Maker.

BRIGGS wrote:I think well be just fine buying 2nd rounders. Id spend the whole 3.4mm buying twos--remember they dont have to be part of our 15 man rotation. It gives the team great flexibility.

Picks that could easily be available(these are 2nd(2nd rounders)

Picks for each team)

35 Boston

38 Milwaukee

40 New Orleans

43 Houston

45 Boston

47 Orlando

51 Boston

52 Utah

54 Atlanta

We could offer 2 mm to Boston for picks 35 and 1.4mm to Milwaukee for pick 38

Even though some of those teams especially Boston have multiple picks they're still gonna want enough value back for them or they can just use their picks on euro players that they can just stash for however many years overseas. I don't think it'll be a problem getting a pick or two but this draft seems so average that i think we might be able to get a player or two with the same talent level as the 2nd round picks as UDFA's.

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I know that the title is kinda clunky but would we be able to offer the Celtics a 2018 1st round pick swap and cash for their 16th and 23rd picks?

With all this talk about the Celtics wanting to trade out of the draft, I was wondering if this type of scenario would be feasible. Yes, the Celtics would be losing multiple picks but could potentially be gaining better quality if they continue to be better than us; which I presume would be good rationale on their part.

FYI, if we manage to accomplish it, I go with Denzel Valentine at 16 and Thon Maker at 23.

Why would Boston trade two 1st round picks for one 1st round pick when there's a good chance that in 2018 we're easily a playoff team and if free agency goes well for us this off season and the following off season we could be making some noise in the playoffs?? Players are gonna want to play with the KP/Melo combo and now we have a head coach that players want to play for.

There's a very good chance that we are NOT a playoff team come 2018, if history has any barring on our future. Melo will be shadow of himself at this point and if we fail to sign any major free agents, all we'll have is Kristaps Porzingis...and who knows how he'll being fairing with injuries at his size. The fact of the matter is that we geniunely need help in the coming offseasons because what we have isn't stable enough a foundation.

So if I'm Boston and I've got 8 draft picks in this draft, and another 3 first round picks on average for the next couple of drafts, I'd consider taking a gamble. After all, what would the Celtics really be losing? They don't want or need those picks in the first place and have been attempting to overpay in this type of scenario since the 2015 draft when they offered the 3rd pick from this draft and 3 other first round picks to anyone willing to give them Justise Winslow.

How are you gonna predict what kind of team we'll be in 2018? How do you know that we don't get a M.Conley or another legit player this off season? If we do i can almost guarantee that it'll be easy for us to get another legit player the following off season cause players will be jumping at the chance to play with a lineup of M.Conley, Melo, KP and Rolo?? I know some of you are still thinking that we're sooooo far away from being a good team but IMO we're two good guards away from being a really good team and we could have those two guards and i think we will have them by 2018.

I truly think we're gonna get some good players in these next two off seasons and will be a legit team in 2018.

Totally agree!!! This team is going to have a few good shots to improve this summer. They will also have some growth from within. There is no need to panic. Phil just needs to make smart moves to fill the starting backcourt spots.

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I know that the title is kinda clunky but would we be able to offer the Celtics a 2018 1st round pick swap and cash for their 16th and 23rd picks?

With all this talk about the Celtics wanting to trade out of the draft, I was wondering if this type of scenario would be feasible. Yes, the Celtics would be losing multiple picks but could potentially be gaining better quality if they continue to be better than us; which I presume would be good rationale on their part.

FYI, if we manage to accomplish it, I go with Denzel Valentine at 16 and Thon Maker at 23.

Why would Boston trade two 1st round picks for one 1st round pick when there's a good chance that in 2018 we're easily a playoff team and if free agency goes well for us this off season and the following off season we could be making some noise in the playoffs?? Players are gonna want to play with the KP/Melo combo and now we have a head coach that players want to play for.

There's a very good chance that we are NOT a playoff team come 2018, if history has any barring on our future. Melo will be shadow of himself at this point and if we fail to sign any major free agents, all we'll have is Kristaps Porzingis...and who knows how he'll being fairing with injuries at his size. The fact of the matter is that we geniunely need help in the coming offseasons because what we have isn't stable enough a foundation.

So if I'm Boston and I've got 8 draft picks in this draft, and another 3 first round picks on average for the next couple of drafts, I'd consider taking a gamble. After all, what would the Celtics really be losing? They don't want or need those picks in the first place and have been attempting to overpay in this type of scenario since the 2015 draft when they offered the 3rd pick from this draft and 3 other first round picks to anyone willing to give them Justise Winslow.

Looks like the Knicks going after big time FA's. I believe Dolan, and Phil want to rebuild on the fly while staying competitive. The more talent Melo has around him, the longer he will be effective, the less of a load he has to carry.

If they weren't serious about making the playoffs, they wouldn't be trying so hard to make a splash in free agency. I agree with this strategy, dont want to KP to spend his early years watching the playoffs on TV if it can be avoided.

I have no doubt that this is the plan. And if the plan succeeds, then we'd be looking pretty in this scenario. We'd basically end up with two first round picks without giving up any assets, if a trade could be structured like I'm suggesting. It only screws us if we fail to grab any major free agents before 2018.

I do oscillate between wanting a full rebuild and trying to "win now" though. I tend to gravitate more towards the "win now" end of the spectrum since Jeff Hornancek has been hired. Melo's resolve to stay a Knick has also been endearing but I am still majorly concerned with his health and long-term viability. If we add some draft picks along the way though, I'd feel a little more comfortable with the situation.