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Jamal and Damp update NY POST
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Knicksfan
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8/4/2004  1:02 AM
I agree with Rich in what he sais but not for the exact same reasons. I think Isiah wants to get in good shape to win now so we can forget about getting under the cap during the Marbury era. Who knows later, Rich, but now I don't think that that's the way he wants to go. He do wants to get young players which is a good way of rebuilding without getting under the cap.

But I agree that if this deal that gives up all of our expiring contracts is the one Isiah is going to agree then Im dissapointed with him. He gets a young player with potential, bla, bla, bla. But by doing this deal the way Chicago wants to he destroys any other chance of making a trade until the season after the next one, and thats not good. Giving up all your trade assets isn't a good thing to do for a player that helps a lot but isn't your biggest problem. By doing this deal Isiah is showing that he lost his patience and that just wants to get Crawford no matter what it takes to get him. Not even including Norris is a dissapointing thing. Isiah is just playing the game exactly like Paxon wants him to play it.

Some here think that just because we get the best talent in Crawford it means that this is a steal for the Knicks but fail to look at the financial and flexibility consecuences of this deal. To think that NY shouldn't care about money of exp. contracts involved in the trade is irresponsible because we may have money, but unlike baseball, we have to manage it wisely because of the cap to be able to upgrade the team now and in the future.
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PhilinLA
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8/4/2004  1:05 AM
I don't like the deal if it's significantly larger than Moochie and Dikembe and cash for Crawford and JYD. We need the contracts for other things.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
codeunknown
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8/4/2004  1:06 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:

I agree with Rich in what he sais but not for the exact same reasons. I think Isiah wants to get in good shape to win now so we can forget about getting under the cap during the Marbury era. Who knows later, Rich, but now I don't think that that's the way he wants to go. He do wants to get young players which is a good way of rebuilding without getting under the cap.

But I agree that if this deal that gives up all of our expiring contracts is the one Isiah is going to agree then Im dissapointed with him. He gets a young player with potential, bla, bla, bla. But by doing this deal the way Chicago wants to he destroys any other chance of making a trade until the season after the next one, and thats not good. Giving up all your trade assets isn't a good thing to do for a player that helps a lot but isn't your biggest problem. By doing this deal Isiah is showing that he lost his patience and that just wants to get Crawford no matter what it takes to get him. Not even including Norris is a dissapointing thing. Isiah is just playing the game exactly like Paxon wants him to play it.

Some here think that just because we get the best talent in Crawford it means that this is a steal for the Knicks but fail to look at the financial and flexibility consecuences of this deal. To think that NY shouldn't care about money of exp. contracts involved in the trade is irresponsible because we may have money, but unlike baseball, we have to manage it wisely because of the cap to be able to upgrade the team now and in the future.

We are defnitely on the same page on this one.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
Rich
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8/4/2004  1:17 AM
I basically agree as well, but Isiah has publicly said that that Houston's contract was the major reason he chose not to rebuild. I have been hoping that he would use the point at which his contract expires as a line of demarcation, affording the team some cap flexiblity.

I would probably rather dump Shandon's contract and take back ERob's, than give up four expiring contracts, including a young asset like FW.
PhilinLA
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8/4/2004  1:20 AM
Obviously anything that moves Shandon and preserves value is good. I'm still hoping it's the deal I heard about.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
codeunknown
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8/4/2004  1:48 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:


If it's Dikembe & Moochie for JYD & Craw they save about $5 mil (compared to letting Crawford walk) and they get cash considerations (probably $3 mil) in the rumored deals

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/03/2004 23:09:32]

Check your math Bonn, JYD makes 18 mil over 3 years and Craw makes 3.5 next year. Deke makes 4.5 and Moochie makes 7 mil over 2 years mil. Thats a 10 mil differential. Add the the 3 mil in cash that we throw in and that makes 13 mil, as I stated.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
Rich
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8/4/2004  1:54 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/28517.htm

PICNIC DELAYS CRAWFORD DEAL

By MARC BERMAN

August 4, 2004 -- It's been five weeks of tedious negotiations, so what was another day.

Agent Aaron Goodwin confirmed the Knicks and Bulls agreed on a sign-and-trade deal yesterday in what is believed to be a six-player package that will make combo guard Jamal Crawford and rebounding forward Jerome Williams Knicks as soon as today.

The only holdup is working through the details of Crawford's estimated six-year, $55 million contract, regarding trade kickers, incentives and physicals.

"There's a deal on the table," Goodwin said. "Barring something unusual, we should have something [today]."

The Knicks and Bulls couldn't officially consummate the Crawford deal yesterday anyway because the NBA ran its company picnic and couldn't approve the deal.

According to a source, Dikembe Mutombo, Othella Harrington and Frank Williams, all in the final years of their contracts, will head to Chicago. Moochie Norris' inclusion was a sticking point during last-minute talks yesterday, until Isiah Thomas relented and substituted Harrington. With Norris out, Thomas will not be required to fork over $3 million in cash. Cezary Trybanski was a late throw-in. The only true loss is Williams, who's expendable with Crawford aboard.

While Crawford's Knick future is a virtual certainty, the chance of pulling off a second sign-and-trade for Golden State center Erick Dampier is still possible, even with Mutombo and Harrington out of play. Kurt Thomas and Nazr Mohammed will be the pawns.

Dampier is expected to fly to New York tonight and visit tomorrow. Plans call for Dampier to work out at the Knicks' Westchester facility.

According to a source, the Warriors would be willing to do a deal with the Knicks if Isiah would take center Evan Eschmeyer, who is coming off multiple knee surgeries and has three years and $10.2 million left on his contract. There's doubt if Eschmeyer will play again.

When the Knicks obtain Crawford, it will be interesting to see if Isiah changes his mind on Stephon Marbury's availability. For three weeks, reports out of Toronto had Vince Carter trying to force a trade to the Knicks. It's believed only an offer of Marbury would have a chance of flying with Toronto GM Rob Babcock, who drafted him with Minnesota.

Isiah has said he won't trade Marbury, but if he did, the Knicks would field a threesome of Crawford at PG, Carter at SG and Tim Thomas at SF, with Allan Houston the sixth man.

*

The Knicks signed their second-round pick Trevor Ariza of UCLA to a one-year guaranteed deal at the league minimum with a team option.




Elite
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8/4/2004  2:22 AM
i ahte when they suggest trading marbury...


i seriously would not trade stephon for ANYONE except Ben Wallace or Garnett... thats right u heard me

u can keep kobe, duncan all them squares.. Marbs is the man, keep him!!!
BigSm00th
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8/4/2004  2:23 AM
I don't like the Ariza contract, they should've had two-years with a team option on the 3rd.

I'll trade KT, Nazr, a first rounder, and cash for Dampier (re-signed), Eschmeyer, and Troy Murphy. Murphy averaged 11 and 10 2 years ago and got hurt last year. He's 6'11" and can shoot and rebound like crazy, and he's only 24 years old. I'll do that trade in a heartbeat.

KT is a bargain contract, Nazr would be almost paid off for the $3 million and the first rounder given up basically cancels out since the Knicks are getting a stud in Murphy.

I don't think Golden State gets a better offer than that, and the Knicks make out like bandits.
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Rich
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8/4/2004  2:35 AM
I agree with you guys about Marbury (although I can think of a few other untouchable players I would add to the list I would trade him for), and Ariza.

I don't think the Knicks can trade a 1st rounder because they don't know if the conditional pick they owe Phoenix will be transfered in 2006 or 2007.

[Edited by - Rich on 08/04/2004 02:36:32]
jaydh
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8/4/2004  3:12 AM
Posted by BigSm00th:

I don't like the Ariza contract, they should've had two-years with a team option on the 3rd.

I'll trade KT, Nazr, a first rounder, and cash for Dampier (re-signed), Eschmeyer, and Troy Murphy. Murphy averaged 11 and 10 2 years ago and got hurt last year. He's 6'11" and can shoot and rebound like crazy, and he's only 24 years old. I'll do that trade in a heartbeat.

KT is a bargain contract, Nazr would be almost paid off for the $3 million and the first rounder given up basically cancels out since the Knicks are getting a stud in Murphy.

I don't think Golden State gets a better offer than that, and the Knicks make out like bandits.

i seriously doubt the warriors would trade murphy unless they also got sweetney in return. the warriors like murphy and wont give him up that easy... the deal would have to be kt+(moochie+cash)or nazr for dampier+esch... something like that. i doubt they would take shandon.
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8/4/2004  7:17 AM
Hey, if we can get Dampier for Kurt and Nazr I think that's ideal. Signing Damps for the MLE would be nice, but I feel like the front court would almost be too crowded.

But if Ric Bucher is saying that Damps is coming, I think it means he's coming. Unless Atlanta ponies up the rest of its cap room (which is always a possibility).

I think if you can add Dampier and Crawford for all the expiring contracts and Kurt and Nazr you have to do it. They can make more moves next summer when Tim, Penny, and Sweetney have one year left. Obviously we wouldn't trade Sweets unless it was for something very good.

But this lineup?

Marbury, Moochie
Houston/Crawford
Tim Thomas, Penny, Shan
Sweetney, Jerome
Dampier, Vin?

It's one decent big man (Keon?) short of being a VERY good team. I don't think it wins it all or anything, but I won't say it can't make the Finals. I think it would match up very well with Detroit and Indiana and yes, Miami...provided Jamal can learn to use his length to play defense.
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Bonn1997
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8/4/2004  8:24 AM
Posted by Rich:

Are the Knicks ever getting rid of Moochie or Shandon?
Yes, in just 11 months Moochie will have a valuable expiring contract. Can you wait that long?
Kwazimodal
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8/4/2004  8:52 AM
I wonder if Houston would still want to be in the NBA if his knee got worse this year?He sure doesnt need the money and while the Knicks are getting better,I doubt they will be winning a championship during the lifetime of his contract and he is 33.Could he handle losing the starter's job to Crawford?He sure wasnt enthusiastic about the rumours of his coming here.
Bonn1997
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8/4/2004  9:08 AM
Posted by Kwazimodal:

I wonder if Houston would still want to be in the NBA if his knee got worse this year?
I've been wondering about that too. If his knee actually gets worse and the pain becomes more severe, he might decide to skip the final two seasons of his contract by reaching a buy out agreement. That's obviously the worst case scenario, though. Hopefully, if his minutes are shortened and he's asked to be a scoring punch off the bench (that's the role I'd give him if we get Jamal), he can handle it. (There still will be pain, but hopefully it won't be too severe.)
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8/4/2004  12:39 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

He gets a young player with potential, bla, bla, bla. But by doing this deal the way Chicago wants to he destroys any other chance of making a trade until the season after the next one, and thats not good.

y isnt it good?! the pistons won the championship on chemistry, not superstars. chemistry is what we need, we need our players to play together for a couple of years! your one of those drama queens that wants a new player every year or so, just so you can talk about it. man get out of here.
timmyTtop
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8/4/2004  12:43 PM
Posted by Kwazimodal:

I wonder if Houston would still want to be in the NBA if his knee got worse this year?He sure doesnt need the money and while the Knicks are getting better,I doubt they will be winning a championship during the lifetime of his contract and he is 33.Could he handle losing the starter's job to Crawford?He sure wasnt enthusiastic about the rumours of his coming here.


he doesnt need the money?! since when do rich people do what they do because they need the money. like 'zo said, every player has their time when they feel its ready to move from the game, houston is no where near that. he will be healthy by training camp. period! you guys make this **** up from your azz. as far as im concerned, no recent news is good news, bc the press would LOVE to blow up houston's knees into something 10x worse than it already is. he'll be fine, players come back from knee problems. everyone knows their own body, if he says he'll be healthy come training camp, i'm sure he will.
Knicksfan
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8/4/2004  1:04 PM
Posted by timmyTtop:
Posted by Knicksfan:

He gets a young player with potential, bla, bla, bla. But by doing this deal the way Chicago wants to he destroys any other chance of making a trade until the season after the next one, and thats not good.

y isnt it good?! the pistons won the championship on chemistry, not superstars. chemistry is what we need, we need our players to play together for a couple of years! your one of those drama queens that wants a new player every year or so, just so you can talk about it. man get out of here.



Its always good to get a young player with potential, and Im with you that one of the most important things to develope is chemestry because this is a team sport. But if you think that we just need that to win a championship like Detroit then you are not looking at the roster carefully. We are not a tittle contender yet. We need more pieces, not superstars I never said that, to solve the tittle puzzle correctly. Look at our frontcourt, specially at center. We aren't there yet. The Pistons won with great chemestry and a great plan, but they had a lot of talent including at center. Ben Wallace and Sheed along with a good and tall bench helped them a lot. Crawford helps us now with Houston and in the future, but he isn't the last piece to our tittle puzzle. We still need size and if we are in position to get that now or get something close to it then we should be careful with every deal we make now. We don't need superstars, but we do lack some pieces to become a real contender.

Do I want a new player every year? No, I would like to have the same team together to let them grow, but until we don't have all the pieces to be a real contender, we need to explore every option avaliable to upgrade the team.

Be sure to understand what a poster is trying to say before responding to his post, and more if you are going to insult him. Please, if you disagree with me, just explain your opinion respectfully.
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PhilinLA
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8/4/2004  1:22 PM
FAN just said on Sportsflash that the Knicks were working out Damps today and would speak to the Media later today.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
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8/4/2004  1:24 PM
Posted by PhilinLA:

FAN just said on Sportsflash that the Knicks were working out Damps today and would speak to the Media later today.

I wonder if "working out" means that he is taking a pysical....so he can sign. Wishfull thinkging.
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