Finestrg wrote:http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-knicks/post/_/id/64749/one-of-knicks-biggest-needs-in-offseason-is-lead-guard-gm-steve-mills-says

So glad to hear him say that. Couldn't agree more. Also glad to hear him say 2 other things: (1) now that Jeff's here, we'll need to get his input on personnel, see how he views things and see what players he likes (makes me think we're not gonna just look to shoehorn 'triangle only' players down his throat and (2) we're prepared to focus mainly on players that are realistic; the ones we think will be available to us, and then act accordingly and aggressively -- I love that too and hope that's the plan in FA and the draft. Makes me believe we're not thinking about guys like Conley Jr. in FA and not thinking lottery in the draft, which is what I've been thinking all along. Who the hell wants to dole out close to max money for Conley Jr. for 15 ppg/6 assts?? Come on, that's not a max player..

Hopefully we're able to come up with something better but suppose we we're only able to do this: acquire Jerryd Bayless in FA at an excellent price for an instant lead guard upgrade and then draft Gary Payton II with a 2nd round pick we hope to acquire. It's my contention that if we got Bayless, we could then lean on him for 15 ppg/5+ apg-type production and wouldn't have to pay a guy like Conley Jr. 5x the amount or trade away an important piece like RoLo for Jeff Teague to get that production. Bayless has the ability to get there imo. Bayless together with another cost-effective move or two as the bigger expenditures (I'm thinking Solomon Hill and Willy Hernangomez and I'd be hoping to get all 3 players for under $15mm/yr in total salary added. Also thinking everything else we'd need in FA to round out a competitive team could come from FA mini camp/league minimum-type signings. I'd also like to see us check in with SWG in Detroit on Spencer Dinwiddie's availability), we'll then have money to carry over to the following year together with Calderon coming off the books for good -- maybe that's when we look to spend the big money... Think about Bayless/Payton II as a lead guard tandem for the foreseeable future, how much of an upgrade that potent offense/defense combo could be over the next several years from what we've been working with and it's 100% doable and realistic. I think at the beginning, Bayless/Grant/Wroten (maybe we also think about swapping out Langston Galloway for Corey Walden -- another subtle upgrade that I think would help us) could be enough at the big level at lead guard, and we look to let Payton Jr. develop at Westchester. Send him down for 25-30 games and look to develop his offense to meet his defense which already looks NBA-ready. He goes down to Westchester to work on ball-handling, being more aggressive looking for his own shot/getting to the rim/converting at the line along with increasing his output/shooting % from 3. I think there's good potential for GP2 to improve in all these areas.. I love Cat Barber but I'm not sure the Knicks do -- Payton Jr. might take a little while but he could wind up being one of the bigger steals of this draft I'm thinking with his quickness/athleticism + the offensive/defensive potential. Payton Jr. has the very realistic potential to be an even better player than Avery Bradley--I think that's this kid's floor. Who knows what his ceiling could be.

100% agree we could get Bayless for much much cheaper and BUcks already have MIchael-Carter WIlliams.

EnySpree wrote:When I hear lead guard, I can only think of one guy and that's Rondo. The rest of the free agents don't possess that quality. Rondo is bat **** crazy especially when he crosses that line to insanity.... the dude is a lead guard though. If he feels and our staff feels they can work together... than this is our guy. If not, I'd rather stay put with what we have.

The more I think about it Lin is looking better and better. There aren't many lead guards available. Rondo I liked a three four years ago but now he seems to become more a malcontent than anything else. Another guard I think would be a great get would be Clarkson. He would fit right into the fold as he is athletic and if you can get Turner at sg the team becomes a passing team. An all around team is what you look for I. Today's NBA.

ChuckBuck wrote:This is one of those "NO SHYT SHERLOCK" statements that a blind guy can say watching the Knicks.

Hey if that was Trump-=--that would be racist:) But that is funny:)

dk7th wrote:does "lead guard" mean only a point guard? the article mentions afflalo and his possible opt out. shouldn't "lead guard" mean either backcourt position for this team?

Actually traditionally in the triangle the lead guard was a SG, its a term for the guard who will handle the ball more and take more shots.

It doesn't have to mean a SG but Jordan and Kobe was the lead guards while guys like Harper, Armstrong, Kerr, and Fisher were the off guards. The idea is that two guards bring the ball up (similar to what Hornecek did in Phoenix) and one is more aggressive with the ball (driving, PnR, etc) while the other plays more or a catch and shoot roll.

The rumors about Evan Turner fits this, but the knicks still need better 3 PT Shooters to play the off guard too.

But, yes, glad to hear Mills acknowledge this. It does sort of conflict with what Phil Jackson has said - his comments that we wouldn't get caught up in overpaying for a lead guard and maybe we'd go underground to get one. I think Phil thinks Wroten can be that guy, not sure Mills agrees. Also, Hornacek has never mentioned Wroten in any of his comments on the team's roster, particularly when talking about guards.

Wondering if Mills and JH will push to spend on a point guard. I sort of hope they do.

franco12 wrote:

wargames wrote:

dk7th wrote:does "lead guard" mean only a point guard? the article mentions afflalo and his possible opt out. shouldn't "lead guard" mean either backcourt position for this team?

Actually traditionally in the triangle the lead guard was a SG, its a term for the guard who will handle the ball more and take more shots.

It doesn't have to mean a SG but Jordan and Kobe was the lead guards while guys like Harper, Armstrong, Kerr, and Fisher were the off guards. The idea is that two guards bring the ball up (similar to what Hornecek did in Phoenix) and one is more aggressive with the ball (driving, PnR, etc) while the other plays more or a catch and shoot roll.

The rumors about Evan Turner fits this, but the knicks still need better 3 PT Shooters to play the off guard too.

I agree and I don't think we can assume when anyone from our FO/Staff talks about a lead guard that they necessarily mean a PG.

We just need so much- a SG that can shoot and score and penetrate. A PG that can bring the ball up quickly and attack and possibly shoot.

I think if they can get an impact player at SG, they may be content to see if Grant/Wroten/Galderon/Gallo can hold their own there at that spot.

Fournier would be perfect for that role, but I don't see Orlando letting him walk.

I think the best move is to just try to build depth and hope that a few combinations work better than others. For example Wroten/Grant could be lead guards but they need somebody to be the off guard who can shoot the 3. Same for Evan Turner, They need another 3 pt shooter to make it work.

A line up of Wroten and Turner for example would be two lead guards but only 1 ball.

Turner would be better suited as the 6th man who can come in and help get the ball moving in the half court offense.

Finestrg wrote:http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-knicks/post/_/id/64749/one-of-knicks-biggest-needs-in-offseason-is-lead-guard-gm-steve-mills-says

So glad to hear him say that. Couldn't agree more. Also glad to hear him say 2 other things: (1) now that Jeff's here, we'll need to get his input on personnel, see how he views things and see what players he likes (makes me think we're not gonna just look to shoehorn 'triangle only' players down his throat and (2) we're prepared to focus mainly on players that are realistic; the ones we think will be available to us, and then act accordingly and aggressively -- I love that too and hope that's the plan in FA and the draft. Makes me believe we're not thinking about guys like Conley Jr. in FA and not thinking lottery in the draft, which is what I've been thinking all along. Who the hell wants to dole out close to max money for Conley Jr. for 15 ppg/6 assts?? Come on, that's not a max player..

Hopefully we're able to come up with something better but suppose we we're only able to do this: acquire Jerryd Bayless in FA at an excellent price for an instant lead guard upgrade and then draft Gary Payton II with a 2nd round pick we hope to acquire. It's my contention that if we got Bayless, we could then lean on him for 15 ppg/5+ apg-type production and wouldn't have to pay a guy like Conley Jr. 5x the amount or trade away an important piece like RoLo for Jeff Teague to get that production. Bayless has the ability to get there imo. Bayless together with another cost-effective move or two as the bigger expenditures (I'm thinking Solomon Hill and Willy Hernangomez and I'd be hoping to get all 3 players for under $15mm/yr in total salary added. Also thinking everything else we'd need in FA to round out a competitive team could come from FA mini camp/league minimum-type signings. I'd also like to see us check in with SWG in Detroit on Spencer Dinwiddie's availability), we'll then have money to carry over to the following year together with Calderon coming off the books for good -- maybe that's when we look to spend the big money... Think about Bayless/Payton II as a lead guard tandem for the foreseeable future, how much of an upgrade that potent offense/defense combo could be over the next several years from what we've been working with and it's 100% doable and realistic. I think at the beginning, Bayless/Grant/Wroten (maybe we also think about swapping out Langston Galloway for Corey Walden -- another subtle upgrade that I think would help us) could be enough at the big level at lead guard, and we look to let Payton Jr. develop at Westchester. Send him down for 25-30 games and look to develop his offense to meet his defense which already looks NBA-ready. He goes down to Westchester to work on ball-handling, being more aggressive looking for his own shot/getting to the rim/converting at the line along with increasing his output/shooting % from 3. I think there's good potential for GP2 to improve in all these areas.. I love Cat Barber but I'm not sure the Knicks do -- Payton Jr. might take a little while but he could wind up being one of the bigger steals of this draft I'm thinking with his quickness/athleticism + the offensive/defensive potential. Payton Jr. has the very realistic potential to be an even better player than Avery Bradley--I think that's this kid's floor. Who knows what his ceiling could be.

I don't think by him saying that they'll only focus on players that are realistic means he's just gonna ignore the KD's or M.Conley's, i think it means they'll be calling both those guys and any other players they see a fit with to ask if there's any interest instead of bringing them in for interviews knowing that there's no interest which seems silly anyway and don't understand why teams waste that time anyway. Just call their people and find out if they have interest and how strong it is and then decide if they're worth bringing in for the interview process.

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think Rondo and Evan Turner are big candidates. I hope Brandon Jennings gets a look, too. I wonder if they think they can make a play for Conley? I'd still love Conley and I'd even be okay with overpaying him.

But, yes, glad to hear Mills acknowledge this. It does sort of conflict with what Phil Jackson has said - his comments that we wouldn't get caught up in overpaying for a lead guard and maybe we'd go underground to get one. I think Phil thinks Wroten can be that guy, not sure Mills agrees. Also, Hornacek has never mentioned Wroten in any of his comments on the team's roster, particularly when talking about guards.

Wondering if Mills and JH will push to spend on a point guard. I sort of hope they do.

I think JH is already pushing and now Mills is making it known.

I was thinking it was kinda funny how every time JH talked guards he never brought up Wroten's name either, i've never not once have heard him say anything about Wroten and i've never heard him say anything about R.Lopez either. You would think he'd at least mention both of them in some way but nothing.

He's mentioned RoLo a few times when talking about the knicks Front Court strength..... He hasn't mentioned Wroten once.

crzymdups wrote:I think Rondo and Evan Turner are big candidates. I hope Brandon Jennings gets a look, too. I wonder if they think they can make a play for Conley? I'd still love Conley and I'd even be okay with overpaying him.

But, yes, glad to hear Mills acknowledge this. It does sort of conflict with what Phil Jackson has said - his comments that we wouldn't get caught up in overpaying for a lead guard and maybe we'd go underground to get one. I think Phil thinks Wroten can be that guy, not sure Mills agrees. Also, Hornacek has never mentioned Wroten in any of his comments on the team's roster, particularly when talking about guards.

Wondering if Mills and JH will push to spend on a point guard. I sort of hope they do.

That would be one of the worst three point shooting backcourts in the league.