GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:They took like a year off but it's updated. Some of the #s for the Knicks are striking.
http://www.82games.com/1516/1516NYK.HTM
A few comments:
-Many of Melo's defensive #s were excellent last year (not just 82games.com)
-I'm a big Rolo supporter. I think his efficient offense is underrated. But his defensive #s on many sites have been underwhelming.
-Every one of our backcourt players has net negative production and simple ratings. Even if you were just pulling names out of a hat to construct a team, I think it would be hard to do that.

Would be interested in seeing how that is broken down. It seemed this season that as soon as Lopez left the floor, more often than not we would start giving up buckets. Fisher really made a hash of things with Lopez's minutes, was benching him early regardless of how well he was playing, and rarely played him in the 4th. Im guessing that Lopez comes out of the gate stronger this season. Grant too. He can probably pick and roll all he wants now.

The exciting potential about Hornacek is he comes from Sloan's system, which was heavily systemized, but incorporated a ton of pick and roll action. All I ever wanted from Phil was to bring in someone he trusted to update the Triangle. I thought Walton could be that guy. From what we are hearing, it seems Hornacek will be given that chance.

Bonn1997 wrote:They took like a year off but it's updated. Some of the #s for the Knicks are striking.
http://www.82games.com/1516/1516NYK.HTM
A few comments:
-Many of Melo's defensive #s were excellent last year (not just 82games.com)

Weigh in ChuckBuck and dtkf7th; give some of that in-depth analysis to this.

ChuckBuck wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:They took like a year off but it's updated. Some of the #s for the Knicks are striking.
http://www.82games.com/1516/1516NYK.HTM
A few comments:
-Many of Melo's defensive #s were excellent last year (not just 82games.com)

Weigh in ChuckBuck and dtkf7th; give some of that in-depth analysis to this.

Sure!

Melo's defense is so improved he cracked the 2nd page!

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5

Ranked 51st in Defensive Real Plus Minus is nothing to sneeze at people.

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:They took like a year off but it's updated. Some of the #s for the Knicks are striking.
http://www.82games.com/1516/1516NYK.HTM
A few comments:
-Many of Melo's defensive #s were excellent last year (not just 82games.com)

Weigh in ChuckBuck and dtkf7th; give some of that in-depth analysis to this.

Sure!

Melo's defense is so improved he cracked the 2nd page!

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5

Ranked 51st in Defensive Real Plus Minus is nothing to sneeze at people.

Do you know what that stat measures? Guessing no...

DRPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions

Fine fine, you don't like that fact he's ranked 51st in the league in DRPM, here's a better stat for you. He's 70th in Defensive Win Shares. Even bested by his own rookie teammate.

Rk                      Player   Pos Age  Tm  G   MP  PER   TS%  3PAr   FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG%   OWS DWS   WS  WS/48   OBPM  DBPM   BPM VORP
1                 Paul Millsap    PF  30 ATL 81 2647 21.3  .556  .218  .383  8.4 21.5 15.1 16.4  2.7  4.1 13.3 24.3   4.1 6.0 10.1   .183    1.1   4.2   5.3  4.9
2               Andre Drummond     C  22 DET 81 2666 21.2  .499  .006  .553 15.6 34.2 24.5  4.4  2.3  3.2 10.5 24.1   2.0 5.5  7.4   .133   -2.1   1.6  -0.5  1.0
3               DeAndre Jordan     C  27 LAC 77 2598 20.6  .628  .002 1.219 11.4 32.7 22.2  5.3  1.0  5.4 12.1 15.4   6.0 5.5 11.5   .213   -0.4   3.8   3.4  3.5
4                Kawhi Leonard    SF  24 SAS 72 2380 26.0  .616  .267  .306  4.7 18.4 11.8 13.0  2.8  2.3  7.8 25.8   8.3 5.5 13.7   .277    5.5   2.8   8.3  6.2
5             Hassan Whiteside     C  26 MIA 73 2125 25.7  .629  .000  .482 13.1 32.4 23.1  2.4  1.1  9.7 14.2 20.7   5.0 5.3 10.3   .233   -0.9   3.4   2.5  2.4
6               Draymond Green    PF  25 GSW 81 2808 19.3  .587  .315  .402  5.5 23.0 14.7 29.0  2.0  3.0 21.2 18.8   6.0 5.1 11.1   .190    2.0   3.9   5.8  5.5
7                  Paul George    SF  25 IND 81 2819 20.9  .557  .391  .364  3.1 18.7 10.9 20.3  2.7  0.8 13.6 30.4   4.4 4.8  9.2   .157    3.5   1.0   4.5  4.6
8            LaMarcus Aldridge    PF  30 SAS 74 2261 22.4  .565  .015  .289  9.2 22.2 15.9  8.1  0.9  2.8  7.8 25.9   5.6 4.5 10.1   .215    0.7   1.1   1.8  2.2
9                   Al Horford     C  29 ATL 82 2631 19.4  .565  .244  .123  6.3 18.2 12.4 16.7  1.3  3.6  8.8 20.6   4.9 4.5  9.4   .172    1.5   2.6   4.1  4.1
10               Stephen Curry    PG  27 GSW 79 2700 31.5  .669  .554  .250  2.9 13.6  8.6 33.7  3.0  0.4 12.9 32.6  13.8 4.1 17.9   .318   12.4   0.1  12.5  9.8
11                 Danny Green    SG  28 SAS 79 2062 10.5  .492  .622  .082  2.7 13.6  8.4  9.3  2.0  2.4 11.4 14.6   0.2 4.1  4.2   .099   -0.2   3.0   2.7  2.5
12                LeBron James    SF  31 CLE 76 2709 27.5  .588  .199  .347  4.7 18.8 11.8 36.0  2.0  1.5 13.2 31.4   9.6 4.0 13.6   .242    6.9   2.3   9.1  7.6
13           Russell Westbrook    PG  27 OKC 80 2750 27.6  .554  .236  .397  6.1 18.1 12.4 49.6  2.9  0.6 16.8 31.6  10.0 4.0 14.0   .245    7.6   2.4  10.0  8.3
14                 Monta Ellis    SG  30 IND 81 2734 13.7  .504  .276  .202  1.7  9.1  5.4 22.2  2.7  1.1 15.4 21.2   0.4 3.9  4.3   .075   -0.6   0.9   0.3  1.6
15                   Pau Gasol     C  35 CHI 72 2291 21.7  .529  .069  .290  7.3 28.7 18.2 21.7  0.9  4.7 12.8 24.6   3.2 3.9  7.1   .149    0.5   3.5   4.0  3.5
16               Kent Bazemore    SF  26 ATL 75 2083 13.4  .551  .421  .208  1.5 18.0  9.9 12.7  2.3  1.4 14.8 20.0   0.3 3.8  4.1   .094   -1.3   1.6   0.3  1.2
17                 Rudy Gobert     C  23 UTA 61 1932 17.5  .582  .000  .799 12.6 27.7 20.2  7.4  1.2  5.9 19.2 14.2   2.6 3.8  6.4   .160   -1.1   4.8   3.7  2.8
18                  Kevin Love    PF  27 CLE 77 2424 19.0  .553  .449  .321  7.0 28.4 17.8 12.2  1.2  1.4 11.3 23.4   4.7 3.8  8.5   .169    1.7   0.9   2.5  2.8
19                  Kyle Lowry    PG  29 TOR 77 2851 22.2  .578  .457  .410  2.2 12.3  7.3 29.9  2.9  1.0 13.7 26.1   8.0 3.7 11.6   .196    6.2   0.6   6.8  6.3
20                  Tim Duncan     C  39 SAS 61 1536 16.9  .523  .005  .297  8.8 23.8 16.6 15.3  1.6  3.9 15.3 17.6   1.6 3.6  5.2   .163   -0.8   5.0   4.1  2.4
21             Jared Sullinger    PF  23 BOS 81 1915 16.7  .476  .128  .200 10.6 27.0 18.7 15.5  1.9  1.9 10.4 21.8   1.3 3.6  4.8   .121   -1.2   2.3   1.1  1.5
22                Kemba Walker    PG  25 CHO 81 2885 20.8  .554  .368  .329  2.1 11.5  6.8 25.7  2.2  1.1 10.1 26.5   6.3 3.6  9.9   .165    4.0   0.0   4.0  4.4
23                 Jae Crowder    SF  25 BOS 73 2308 15.8  .565  .446  .294  3.2 14.2  8.6  8.9  2.7  1.2  8.3 18.5   3.8 3.5  7.3   .152    1.5   1.3   2.8  2.8
24                Kevin Durant    SF  27 OKC 72 2578 28.2  .634  .349  .361  2.0 21.8 12.4 24.2  1.3  2.5 13.5 30.6  11.0 3.5 14.5   .270    7.0   0.9   7.9  6.4
25                  Chris Paul    PG  30 LAC 74 2420 26.2  .575  .295  .294  1.8 12.0  7.0 52.7  3.1  0.4 13.4 27.1   9.2 3.5 12.7   .253    7.3   0.5   7.8  6.0
26                   John Wall    PG  25 WAS 77 2784 19.8  .510  .243  .255  1.7 13.8  7.6 46.2  2.5  1.7 17.5 28.6   2.2 3.5  5.7   .098    2.2   1.0   3.2  3.7
27              Derrick Favors    PF  24 UTA 62 1983 21.6  .551  .005  .313 10.0 19.6 14.8  8.9  2.0  3.9 10.1 23.9   3.8 3.4  7.1   .173    0.4   2.3   2.7  2.3
28              Gordon Hayward    SF  25 UTA 80 2893 18.3  .559  .341  .397  2.5 13.5  8.0 18.2  1.7  0.8 12.5 25.7   5.5 3.4  8.9   .147    2.6  -0.1   2.5  3.3
29            DeMarcus Cousins     C  25 SAC 65 2246 23.6  .538  .158  .498  7.7 28.2 18.0 17.0  2.2  3.3 13.3 35.4   2.4 3.3  5.7   .122    1.0   1.6   2.6  2.6
30                 Ian Mahinmi     C  29 IND 71 1816 16.6  .603  .000  .502  8.3 22.1 15.3  8.9  1.8  3.3 15.5 15.7   2.9 3.3  6.2   .163   -0.9   3.3   2.4  2.0
31             Thabo Sefolosha    SF  31 ATL 75 1758 12.4  .578  .333  .266  3.3 17.1 10.4  8.8  2.4  1.7 14.1 12.3   1.3 3.2  4.5   .122   -1.7   2.8   1.1  1.4
32             Marvin Williams    PF  29 CHO 81 2338 16.8  .585  .506  .193  5.9 18.6 12.2  7.6  1.2  2.7  7.1 16.8   4.7 3.2  7.8   .161    1.7   1.0   2.7  2.7
33             Bismack Biyombo     C  23 TOR 82 1808 14.9  .586  .003  .785 11.7 29.5 20.8  2.4  0.5  6.1 15.5 11.5   2.8 3.1  5.9   .156   -2.4   2.3  -0.1  0.9
34               Marcin Gortat     C  31 WAS 75 2256 19.0  .592  .001  .271 10.8 26.3 18.4  7.5  1.0  3.4 12.4 18.9   4.2 3.1  7.3   .156   -0.5   1.7   1.2  1.8
35               Dwight Howard     C  30 HOU 71 2280 18.9  .604  .010  .790 11.4 29.1 20.2  7.0  1.5  4.1 17.0 18.4   3.5 3.1  6.6   .138   -1.1   1.8   0.6  1.5
36            Tristan Thompson    PF  24 CLE 82 2269 15.9  .611  .000  .576 13.5 23.3 18.4  4.0  0.9  1.8 10.4 11.7   5.6 3.1  8.7   .185    0.2   1.3   1.5  2.0
37                 Serge Ibaka    PF  26 OKC 78 2500 13.9  .533  .212  .139  6.5 16.2 11.6  3.9  0.8  4.5 10.5 17.6   2.5 3.0  5.5   .105   -1.1   1.0  -0.1  1.2
38                 Jeff Teague    PG  27 ATL 79 2255 17.9  .551  .278  .316  1.6  8.6  5.2 34.4  2.1  0.8 16.2 26.6   2.8 3.0  5.9   .125    1.2  -0.9   0.3  1.3
39                 Evan Turner    SG  27 BOS 81 2271 13.6  .513  .110  .238  2.3 16.5  9.3 23.9  1.7  1.0 16.9 18.8   1.0 3.0  4.0   .085   -1.9   1.3  -0.7  0.8
40       Giannis Antetokounmpo    PG  21 MIL 80 2823 18.8  .566  .108  .404  4.6 20.0 12.4 20.0  1.7  3.4 14.8 22.3   4.2 2.9  7.1   .121    1.0   1.5   2.4  3.2
41               Nicolas Batum    SF  27 CHO 70 2448 15.6  .546  .457  .220  2.4 16.8  9.6 26.9  1.3  1.4 17.6 21.4   2.0 2.9  5.0   .097    1.1   0.9   2.0  2.5
42                Andrew Bogut     C  31 GSW 70 1451 15.9  .623  .004  .179  9.5 26.0 18.3 14.8  1.1  5.8 21.6 11.4   2.6 2.9  5.4   .180   -0.6   5.1   4.5  2.4
43                Amir Johnson    PF  28 BOS 79 1800 16.0  .602  .101  .284 10.3 19.6 14.9 11.4  1.4  3.6 16.4 13.6   3.0 2.9  5.9   .158   -0.2   3.2   3.0  2.3
44                 Kyle Korver    SG  34 ATL 80 2401  9.7  .578  .644  .088  0.7 10.9  5.9  9.9  1.2  1.1 13.3 13.7   1.2 2.9  4.1   .081   -0.7   0.5  -0.2  1.1
45                 Tony Parker    PG  33 SAS 72 1980 16.2  .546  .092  .241  1.0  8.8  5.1 29.1  1.4  0.4 14.3 21.2   2.9 2.9  5.8   .142    0.4  -0.3   0.1  1.0
46          Kristaps Porzingis    PF  20 NYK 72 2047 17.7  .518  .274  .271  7.1 20.7 14.0  7.8  1.3  5.0 10.9 24.6   1.5 2.9  4.3   .102   -0.8   0.9   0.1  1.1
47                  David West    PF  35 SAS 78 1404 17.6  .573  .016  .179  6.0 18.6 12.5 15.4  1.6  3.0 12.3 18.0   2.4 2.9  5.4   .184    0.1   3.3   3.4  1.9
48               Kyle Anderson    SF  22 SAS 78 1245 12.9  .528  .125  .281  2.4 19.4 11.2 13.7  2.5  1.8 15.1 14.4   0.7 2.8  3.5   .133   -1.9   3.7   1.8  1.2
49               Avery Bradley    SG  25 BOS 76 2536 13.2  .538  .399  .121  2.0  7.3  4.6  9.8  2.2  0.6  9.2 19.8   2.0 2.8  4.8   .090    0.5  -0.3   0.2  1.4
50               Anthony Davis    PF  22 NOP 61 2164 25.0  .559  .095  .379  6.4 26.4 16.1 10.0  1.8  4.7  8.4 29.6   4.4 2.8  7.2   .160    1.0   1.2   2.2  2.3
51                   Luol Deng    PF  30 MIA 74 2394 15.0  .549  .344  .258  5.3 15.4 10.5  9.0  1.6  0.9  8.9 17.4   3.5 2.8  6.4   .128    1.3   0.6   1.9  2.3
52                 George Hill    PG  29 IND 74 2524 13.2  .555  .425  .203  2.5 10.3  6.5 15.5  1.6  0.5 11.1 15.8   3.4 2.8  6.2   .118    1.1   0.5   1.5  2.2
53                Nerlens Noel     C  21 PHI 67 1965 16.2  .544  .003  .387  8.2 22.2 15.0 10.5  2.9  3.9 18.7 18.8   0.3 2.8  3.0   .074   -2.7   3.4   0.7  1.3
54          Karl-Anthony Towns     C  20 MIN 82 2627 22.5  .590  .076  .239 10.2 27.5 19.0 11.3  1.1  4.3 12.6 24.9   5.4 2.8  8.3   .151    1.6   1.2   2.8  3.1
55                Jimmy Butler    SG  26 CHI 67 2474 21.3  .562  .198  .459  3.4 11.6  7.6 21.4  2.2  1.3  9.6 24.4   6.5 2.7  9.1   .177    3.6   0.3   4.0  3.7
56    Kentavious Caldwell-Pope    SG  22 DET 76 2789 12.4  .521  .384  .238  2.6  8.6  5.5  7.8  2.0  0.5  9.0 18.2   2.6 2.7  5.3   .092    0.6   0.6   1.1  2.2
57              Wesley Johnson    SF  28 LAC 80 1666 11.0  .513  .600  .089  2.5 13.6  8.1  4.4  2.7  2.6  9.2 16.0   0.0 2.7  2.6   .076   -1.3   1.8   0.5  1.0
58              Victor Oladipo    SG  23 ORL 72 2379 16.7  .534  .291  .255  2.2 14.0  8.0 18.6  2.4  1.9 12.4 22.9   2.2 2.7  4.9   .099    1.0   0.8   1.8  2.3
59               Zaza Pachulia     C  31 DAL 76 2004 16.2  .550  .006  .587 13.7 25.7 19.7  9.7  1.6  0.9 16.8 16.2   3.4 2.7  6.0   .145   -0.8   2.2   1.4  1.7
60               Mason Plumlee     C  25 POR 82 2084 17.2  .564  .008  .648 10.4 22.2 16.3 16.2  1.6  3.2 18.8 17.1   3.4 2.7  6.1   .140   -0.2   3.0   2.8  2.5
61                 Otto Porter    SF  22 WAS 75 2276 14.5  .564  .372  .176  4.7 14.7  9.6  7.9  2.2  1.1  8.3 16.2   3.0 2.7  5.6   .119    0.8   1.0   1.8  2.2
62             Justise Winslow    SF  19 MIA 78 2232  8.4  .489  .251  .253  4.2 15.8 10.2  7.4  1.6  0.9 15.6 12.5  -0.2 2.7  2.5   .054   -2.2   1.6  -0.6  0.8
63                 Cody Zeller     C  23 CHO 73 1774 16.1  .592  .023  .531  8.4 19.7 14.0  6.3  1.6  2.9 11.2 15.4   3.6 2.7  6.3   .169   -1.0   2.0   1.0  1.3
64               Trevor Booker    PF  28 UTA 79 1632 14.4  .533  .106  .273 11.9 20.4 16.2  8.2  1.9  2.1 15.7 14.6   1.8 2.6  4.3   .128   -0.9   2.3   1.4  1.4
65                James Harden    SG  26 HOU 82 3125 25.3  .598  .406  .518  2.2 15.6  8.8 35.4  2.2  1.4 15.9 32.5  10.7 2.6 13.3   .204    7.1  -0.4   6.7  6.9
66               Patrick Mills    PG  27 SAS 81 1662 14.6  .541  .523  .095  1.9  8.7  5.4 20.1  1.8  0.3 10.7 19.7   2.2 2.6  4.8   .139    2.1  -0.4   1.7  1.6
67               Dirk Nowitzki    PF  37 DAL 75 2364 19.0  .555  .308  .252  2.4 20.3 11.4 10.1  1.1  1.8  6.4 25.5   4.2 2.6  6.8   .138    1.2  -0.3   0.9  1.7
68               Klay Thompson    SG  25 GSW 80 2666 18.6  .597  .469  .159  1.5 10.3  6.2  9.8  1.1  1.4  8.5 26.3   5.4 2.6  8.0   .144    2.9  -2.2   0.7  1.8
69                 Dwyane Wade    SG  34 MIA 74 2258 20.3  .517  .037  .343  4.3 10.7  7.6 27.4  1.8  1.4 13.0 31.6   2.4 2.6  4.9   .105    0.9  -0.1   0.8  1.6
70             Carmelo Anthony    SF  31 NYK 72 2530 20.3  .530  .237  .308  4.3 19.5 12.0 21.9  1.3  1.1 10.6 29.7   3.9 2.5  6.4   .121    2.8  -0.2   2.6  2.9

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:They took like a year off but it's updated. Some of the #s for the Knicks are striking.
http://www.82games.com/1516/1516NYK.HTM
A few comments:
-Many of Melo's defensive #s were excellent last year (not just 82games.com)

Weigh in ChuckBuck and dtkf7th; give some of that in-depth analysis to this.

I don't think there's anything they or other critics need to weigh in on. With the second largest contract in the league, Melo is still a bad bargain.

With nearly $80 million still guaranteed due to Melo and continuous diminishing returns....God help us all!

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:They took like a year off but it's updated. Some of the #s for the Knicks are striking.
http://www.82games.com/1516/1516NYK.HTM
A few comments:
-Many of Melo's defensive #s were excellent last year (not just 82games.com)

Weigh in ChuckBuck and dtkf7th; give some of that in-depth analysis to this.

I don't think there's anything they or other critics need to weigh in on. With the second largest contract in the league, Melo is still a bad bargain.

He won't be the second largest contract in the league about a month from now.

Still doesn't make it a good contract for the production and lack of wins you get. Steph Curry was the 67th highest paid NBA player this year at 11 mill! Melo doesn't even earn his keep in the slightest.

Porzingis seems to be gushing about what a great teammate he has been as well.

I say this and I have not been a monumental Melo lover.

jrodmc wrote:So his defensive play improves, we can't win one effing game without him on the floor, the unicorn loves him, he runs preseason camps, he leads the team in three slightly meaningful statistics, but he's a bad bargain. Got ya.

Way to backtrack on "excellent defensive numbers" Bonn. You're like the nerdy poindexter who backs down and yells amen when the angry ignorant mob enters the classroom.

Enjoy the next three years fellas.