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Toronto sucks
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EnySpree
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5/19/2016  10:03 PM
They are a team full of role players. Even Lowry and Derozen look like marginal rotation players.

Demarr Carol just got 17 mill a year and he's totally worthless. I remember guys saying he was worth that because the cap went up. If we had Demarr I would be angry as ****.

Toronto doesn't run any offense. They are playing hope basketball. "I hope we can score" "I hope we can go on a run"

If I was Derozen I would leave. They have zero upside. If Derozen leaves like he should, they should trade Lowry and rebuild.

If Derozen doesn't leave they have to pray they can hit the jackpot pot in the draft. No other way to improve the team. They need another scorer, but they already paid Carol 17 mill per to do nothing.

To keep in knick related, Kp,Melo, Rolo, Derozen, and grant is a great starting 5...

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CrushAlot
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5/19/2016  10:15 PM
Just saw this on twitter.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Vmart
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5/19/2016  10:19 PM
EnySpree wrote:They are a team full of role players. Even Lowry and Derozen look like marginal rotation players.

Demarr Carol just got 17 mill a year and he's totally worthless. I remember guys saying he was worth that because the cap went up. If we had Demarr I would be angry as ****.

Toronto doesn't run any offense. They are playing hope basketball. "I hope we can score" "I hope we can go on a run"

If I was Derozen I would leave. They have zero upside. If Derozen leaves like he should, they should trade Lowry and rebuild.

If Derozen doesn't leave they have to pray they can hit the jackpot pot in the draft. No other way to improve the team. They need another scorer, but they already paid Carol 17 mill per to do nothing.

To keep in knick related, Kp,Melo, Rolo, Derozen, and grant is a great starting 5...

What does that say about rest of the East?

Swishfm3
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5/19/2016  11:45 PM
I never thought Demarre Carroll was worth so much and I don't think he has done anything this year to deserve it BUT Cleveland is clicking on all cylinders. The Cavs are making everyone look like a JV team.
wh4t
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5/19/2016  11:57 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/20/2016  12:07 AM
Raptors prove that the East is still wide open. Knicks are 1 or 2 pieces away from being better than them
mreinman
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5/20/2016  12:29 AM
if cleveland sweeps which it looks like they may, I would think that perhaps they would even be a favorite in the finals against GS.

Lebron is playing as good as I have ever seen anyone play in the playoffs.

If he wins it all this season then he has to go into the GOAT convo

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
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5/20/2016  12:31 AM
Derozan on the other hand looks like a 15-18 million player and Lowry either is choking or has something wrong with his wrist.
so here is what phil is thinking ....
Nalod
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5/20/2016  8:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/20/2016  8:11 AM
Toronto sucks?

But they are in the Conf. finals sucking. East is weak, that I don't dispute. East is deeper than west. IT was 3 (Okc, SAS, GSW) vs just the cave in the east. Cav's are healthy and making others look bad.

Vs Cav's, they suck.

knicks1248
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5/20/2016  8:34 AM
Swishfm3 wrote:I never thought Demarre Carroll was worth so much and I don't think he has done anything this year to deserve it BUT Cleveland is clicking on all cylinders. The Cavs are making everyone look like a JV team.

They are being coached very well, and since the Rapts lost there Center, labron gets to post up in the paint and draw doubles and then place 4 of his teammates around the arc for uncontested 3's.

Labron doesn't even have to work on the defensive end because no team in the east has a guy like melo, who can at least make labron work, or paint protectors like Lopez, and KP

The rapts look like the knicks, slow half court basketball and no 3 point threats

ES
Chandler
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5/20/2016  8:37 AM
Toronto reminds me of Clevland back in the day of Mark Price and Lenny Wilkens or even Fratello. Not in style but in effect

there are some teams that due to composition or style can win in the regular seasons, but just aren't designed for the deep runs in the playoff, when the opposition can really focus on you, probe your weaknesses, and even if they don't win that game learn something to exploit in the next. Barkley was talking about this the other night and saying how when OKC goes big (Kanter and Adams) they're a much different team. When they score the buckets are relatively easy, they rebound, and they can get the opponent in foul trouble. For sure, GS came back the next game and smoked them, but CHuck has a very legitimate point

In baseball, the great Whitey Herzog used to say speed and defense never go in slumps -- thus his teams with Ozzie Smith, base stealing etc.

In basketball, you can make the same analogy and add size to that equation.

(5)(5)
martin
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5/20/2016  9:50 AM
And this is why, even if the Raptors are more talented today and obviously have the better record, that the Knicks are still in a better long term position than the Raptors.

The Raptors need to resign DeRozen and then will be capped out long term. They have the Knicks' 9th pick this year, their own, and then the LAC pic next year. That's nice.

Their 2 best players keep flaming out in the playoffs, ECF notwithstanding (the East ****ing sucks). Jonas Valanciunas is obviously missing and still has some room for growth, but can these guys as a team really get THAT much better?

I think they have capped out but you never know.

djsunyc?

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Nalod
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5/20/2016  10:32 AM
I can see why the rumors about Dwayne Casey being replaced might be valid if its perceived he has taken the team as far as he can. Its not an indictment against him, just that sometimes a change is needed.
Bird did it, Detroit did it with Carlisle......it happens.
StarksEwing1
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5/20/2016  10:37 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/20/2016  10:45 AM
I dont know how we have the right to bash other teams? Last i checked Toronto has been a playoff team the last few years including a deep run this year. Last i checked they also have our lottery pick plus their own while we have squat. As far as the future goes its impossible to predict. Im just focused on getting the knicks better
ChuckBuck
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5/20/2016  10:48 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/20/2016  10:49 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont know how we have the right to bash other teams? Last i checked Toronto has been a playoff team the last few years including a deep run this year. Last i checked they also have our lottery pick plus their own while we have squat. As far as the future goes its impossible to predict. Im just focused on getting the knicks better

Exactly. We're really in no position to pick apart another team. Especially a team that fleeced us so bad with Bargnani trade.

StarksEwing1
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5/20/2016  10:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/20/2016  10:51 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont know how we have the right to bash other teams? Last i checked Toronto has been a playoff team the last few years including a deep run this year. Last i checked they also have our lottery pick plus their own while we have squat. As far as the future goes its impossible to predict. Im just focused on getting the knicks better

Exactly. We're really in no position to pick apart another team. Especially a team that fleeced us so bad with Bargnani trade.

obviously i hope we have a better future than them because god knows the last 16 years have been miserable. Our one bright spot is KP, he is our franchise player
ChuckBuck
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5/20/2016  10:56 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/20/2016  10:57 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont know how we have the right to bash other teams? Last i checked Toronto has been a playoff team the last few years including a deep run this year. Last i checked they also have our lottery pick plus their own while we have squat. As far as the future goes its impossible to predict. Im just focused on getting the knicks better

Exactly. We're really in no position to pick apart another team. Especially a team that fleeced us so bad with Bargnani trade.

obviously i hope we have a better future than them because god knows the last 16 years have been miserable. Our one bright spot is KP, he is our franchise player

Toronto can retool on the fly if need be, #9 pick, resign some of their players and they're still in the hunt. So all these naysayers really are just grasping at straws. So what if the east is "weak"? Our Knicks couldn't even make the playoffs in a "weak" Eastern conference.

Stick a phucking fork in that noise.

StarksEwing1
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5/20/2016  10:59 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont know how we have the right to bash other teams? Last i checked Toronto has been a playoff team the last few years including a deep run this year. Last i checked they also have our lottery pick plus their own while we have squat. As far as the future goes its impossible to predict. Im just focused on getting the knicks better

Exactly. We're really in no position to pick apart another team. Especially a team that fleeced us so bad with Bargnani trade.

obviously i hope we have a better future than them because god knows the last 16 years have been miserable. Our one bright spot is KP, he is our franchise player

Toronto can retool on the fly if need be, #9 pick, resign some of their players and they're still in the hunt. So all these naysayers really are just grasping at straws. So what if the east is "weak"? Our Knicks couldn't even make the playoffs in a "weak" Eastern conference.

Stick a phucking fork in that noise.

yeah Toronto definetly have the tools to retool if they needed to. Not having our pick once again really hurts
djsunyc
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5/20/2016  11:06 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/20/2016  11:10 AM
martin - the raptors have a payroll of $71 mil. that's 24th. that means there are 23 other teams with higher payrolls in the league. it's a pretty crazy accomplishment to be in the final 4 with such a low payroll. almost never happens. next lowest is gsw and they have $22 mil more.

our big contract will be derozan and while alot of folks don't like his game (myself included) - he is a huge reason we win games in the regular season so his value is that of a max player. ujiri is always about asset retention - and signing dd to the max will fall into that category. and if we chose to move on from lowry after next season, then moving dd will actually be quite easy with an even bigger cap next year. i also think that he would fit into a better systemic offense that casey doesn't instill. (side note - after we dealt rudy and lowry was almost a knick, we also had a dd for beldsoe deal lined up as well).

we have 4 first round picks the next 2 drafts - knicks and our own this draft, clippers and our own next draft.

you make the best with what you've got. we have improved every year as a team the past 5 seasons. and now we've finally made it to the ecf's. we just aren't anywhere near as good as cleveland - they are on another level. and yes, missing jonas is a huge factor b/c he's the one guy that can get easy baskets. cleveland would have no answer for him and he was dominating (star like) in the playoffs until his injury. he was a game changer and we may have been able to get 2 games if he was healthy. but w/o him, and on the heels of 2 seven games series, there was no shot. especially not with the way lebron + kryie + love are all clicking.

the east is good, it's just not top heavy. but to say toronto sucks is just something fans of crappy teams say. but it's eny - he still has a qyntel woods picture on his wall.

we are the best of the 2nd tier teams in the league - nothing wrong with that. final 4. i would say cle + gsw + sas are all better and we are on par with okc(actually slightly better). pop told casey during the season that he expected us to go far and we did. last time the knicks were in the final 4 was in 1999 (a strike shortened season). that's 16 years. and it could be 16 more - there are no guarantees in sports. that's why you take the good when they give it to you.

we are probably going to ride out this current toronto core for another year at least and then see what happens after that.

can we get that much better? well much better means we are championship level so the realistic answer is no and this is as good as this core is going to get. if love + kyrie was out this year instead of last and if jonas was healthy - we are going to the finals. so sometimes luck plays into it - luck and timing. with that said, we could still add a piece to the mix like batum or horford. the good thing about winning is that players values go up which makes deals easier to make and the team more attractive. pivoting from our situation will be quite easy and we have one of the best gm's. 64 wins on the season so far - i'll take it.

the one thing toronto has to deal with that no other team does is that it's in a foreign country. only b/c of the latest success of the franchise have folks actually thinking it's ok to play in toronto. if the team was still losing, it would still be considered siberia.

few other things to address from this thread:

chandler - even tho we kept improving the past 5 years - my biggest gripe with casey is our offensive system. he relies too much on lowry + dd to carry the load. we did see an adjustment and saw us using jonas alot more in the playoffs but overall, it's still an iso-heavy guard team. maybe changing the offense will help but you still need the guards to hit shots and lowry + dd's shot really struggled for most of the playoffs.

swish - carroll was hurt alot of the year. but when he played, he made an impact. we just don't maximize his offensive output based on our iso heavy style of play. but he has provided everything we needed when we signed him in the offseason. he just is no match for lebron - but he allowed us to single cover george + wade which is huge considering alot of folks would have to help/switch or double. if he didn't get hurt, we may have 60 wins this year and then the #1 seed - then maybe we split the first two games at home and outlook is a little different.

wh4t - the knicks are not 1 or 2 pieces away to get to #2. the knicks are 1-2 starters and 3-4 bench players away. need to get a quality guard with breakdown and takeover potential and the team needs alot of depth.

knicks1248 - we are a very good 3 point shooting team - but the two 7 game series have tired us out. we are missing wide open looks - tired legs. but without the jonas release valve - our offense is even easier to guard with free safety lebron.

StarksEwing1
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5/20/2016  11:10 AM
djsunyc wrote:martin - the raptors have a payroll of $71 mil. that's 24th. that means there are 23 other teams with higher payrolls in the league. it's a pretty crazy accomplishment to be in the final 4 with such a low payroll. almost never happens. next lowest is gsw and they have $22 mil more.

our big contract will be derozan and while alot of folks don't like his game (myself included) - he is a huge reason we win games in the regular season so his value is that of a max player. ujiri is always about asset retention - and signing dd to the max will fall into that category. and if we chose to move on from lowry after next season, then moving dd will actually be quite easy with an even bigger cap next year. i also think that he would fit into a better systemic offense that casey doesn't instill. (side note - after we dealt rudy and lowry was almost a knick, we also had a dd for beldsoe deal lined up as well).

we have 4 first round picks the next 2 drafts - knicks and our own this draft, clippers and our own next draft.

you make the best with what you've got. we have improved every year as a team the past 5 seasons. and now we've finally made it to the ecf's. we just aren't anywhere near as good as cleveland - they are on another level. and yes, missing jonas is a huge factor b/c he's the one guy that can get easy baskets. cleveland would have no answer for him and he was dominating (star like) in the playoffs until his injury. he was a game changer and we may have been able to get 2 games if he was healthy. but w/o him, and on the heels of 2 seven games series, there was no shot. especially not with the way lebron + kryie + love are all clicking.

the east is good, it's just not top heavy. but to say toronto sucks is just something fans of crappy teams say. but it's eny - he still has a qyntel woods picture on his wall.

we are the best of the 2nd tier teams in the league - nothing wrong with that. final 4. i would say cle + gsw + sas are all better and we are on par with okc. last time the knicks were in the final 4 was in 1999 (a strike shortened season). that's 16 years. and it could be 16 more - there are no guarantees in sports. that's why you take the good when they give it to you.

we are probably going to ride out this current toronto core for another year at least and then see what happens after that.

can we get that much better? well much better means we are championship level so the realistic answer is no and this is as good as this core is going to get. if love + kyrie was out this year instead of last and if jonas was healthy - we are going to the finals. so sometimes luck plays into it - luck and timing. with that said, we could still add a piece to the mix like batum or horford. the good thing about winning is that players values go up which makes deals easier to make and the team more attractive. pivoting from our situation will be quite easy and we have one of the best gm's. 64 wins on the season so far - i'll take it.

the one thing toronto has to deal with that no other team does is that it's in a foreign country. only b/c of the latest success of the franchise have folks actually thinking it's ok to play in toronto. if the team was still losing, it would still be considered siberia.

few other things to address from this thread:

chandler - even tho we kept improving the past 5 years - my biggest gripe with casey is our offensive system. he relies too much on lowry + dd to carry the load. we did see an adjustment and saw us using jonas alot more in the playoffs but overall, it's still an iso-heavy guard team. maybe changing the offense will help but you still need the guards to hit shots and lowry + dd's shot really struggled for most of the playoffs.

swish - carroll was hurt alot of the year. but when he played, he made an impact. we just don't maximize his offensive output based on our iso heavy style of play. but he has provided everything we needed when we signed him in the offseason. he just is no match for lebron - but he allowed us to single cover george + wade which is huge considering alot of folks would have to help/switch or double. if he didn't get hurt, we may have 60 wins this year and then the #1 seed - then maybe we split the first two games at home and outlook is a little different.

wh4t - the knicks are 1 or 2 pieces away to get to #2. the knicks are 1-2 starters and 3-4 bench players away. need to get a quality guard with breakdown and takeover potential and the team needs alot of depth.

knicks1248 - we are a very good 3 point shooting team - but the two 7 game series have tired us out. we are missing wide open looks - tired legs. but without the jonas release valve - our offense is even easier to guard with free safety lebron.

you make good points DJ. Im a diehard knick fan but we have no right to criticize the raptors. You are already a good team plus you are loaded with first rounders including our lottery pick from the insanely stupid bargnani trade
ChuckBuck
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5/20/2016  11:12 AM
djsunyc wrote:martin - the raptors have a payroll of $71 mil. that's 24th. that means there are 23 other teams with higher payrolls in the league. it's a pretty crazy accomplishment to be in the final 4 with such a low payroll. almost never happens. next lowest is gsw and they have $22 mil more.

our big contract will be derozan and while alot of folks don't like his game (myself included) - he is a huge reason we win games in the regular season so his value is that of a max player. ujiri is always about asset retention - and signing dd to the max will fall into that category. and if we chose to move on from lowry after next season, then moving dd will actually be quite easy with an even bigger cap next year. i also think that he would fit into a better systemic offense that casey doesn't instill. (side note - after we dealt rudy and lowry was almost a knick, we also had a dd for beldsoe deal lined up as well).

we have 4 first round picks the next 2 drafts - knicks and our own this draft, clippers and our own next draft.

you make the best with what you've got. we have improved every year as a team the past 5 seasons. and now we've finally made it to the ecf's. we just aren't anywhere near as good as cleveland - they are on another level. and yes, missing jonas is a huge factor b/c he's the one guy that can get easy baskets. cleveland would have no answer for him and he was dominating (star like) in the playoffs until his injury. he was a game changer and we may have been able to get 2 games if he was healthy. but w/o him, and on the heels of 2 seven games series, there was no shot. especially not with the way lebron + kryie + love are all clicking.

the east is good, it's just not top heavy. but to say toronto sucks is just something fans of crappy teams say. but it's eny - he still has a qyntel woods picture on his wall.

we are the best of the 2nd tier teams in the league - nothing wrong with that. final 4. i would say cle + gsw + sas are all better and we are on par with okc(actually slightly better). pop told casey during the season that he expected us to go far and we did. last time the knicks were in the final 4 was in 1999 (a strike shortened season). that's 16 years. and it could be 16 more - there are no guarantees in sports. that's why you take the good when they give it to you.

we are probably going to ride out this current toronto core for another year at least and then see what happens after that.

can we get that much better? well much better means we are championship level so the realistic answer is no and this is as good as this core is going to get. if love + kyrie was out this year instead of last and if jonas was healthy - we are going to the finals. so sometimes luck plays into it - luck and timing. with that said, we could still add a piece to the mix like batum or horford. the good thing about winning is that players values go up which makes deals easier to make and the team more attractive. pivoting from our situation will be quite easy and we have one of the best gm's. 64 wins on the season so far - i'll take it.

the one thing toronto has to deal with that no other team does is that it's in a foreign country. only b/c of the latest success of the franchise have folks actually thinking it's ok to play in toronto. if the team was still losing, it would still be considered siberia.

few other things to address from this thread:

chandler - even tho we kept improving the past 5 years - my biggest gripe with casey is our offensive system. he relies too much on lowry + dd to carry the load. we did see an adjustment and saw us using jonas alot more in the playoffs but overall, it's still an iso-heavy guard team. maybe changing the offense will help but you still need the guards to hit shots and lowry + dd's shot really struggled for most of the playoffs.

swish - carroll was hurt alot of the year. but when he played, he made an impact. we just don't maximize his offensive output based on our iso heavy style of play. but he has provided everything we needed when we signed him in the offseason. he just is no match for lebron - but he allowed us to single cover george + wade which is huge considering alot of folks would have to help/switch or double. if he didn't get hurt, we may have 60 wins this year and then the #1 seed - then maybe we split the first two games at home and outlook is a little different.

wh4t - the knicks are not 1 or 2 pieces away to get to #2. the knicks are 1-2 starters and 3-4 bench players away. need to get a quality guard with breakdown and takeover potential and the team needs alot of depth.

knicks1248 - we are a very good 3 point shooting team - but the two 7 game series have tired us out. we are missing wide open looks - tired legs. but without the jonas release valve - our offense is even easier to guard with free safety lebron.

Toronto sucks

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