“I just want one more big headache. How about that?” Fratello said, adding all the top teams used triangle principles, so he would, too. “San Antonio does it. Golden State has incorporated it. There’s a number of teams that have parts of the triangle that they use. They just don’t use the same wording as Phil and as his great assistant, Tex Winter, did over the years. So you can find a place for it in your offense.”

http://nypost.com/2016/05/12/magic-shakeup-complicates-knicks-wild-coaching-search/

Maybe he will just say anything to get a coaching job? You would think being a broadcaster and watching games he would realize this doesn't work in the modern NBA?

fishmike wrote: all the top teams used triangle principles, so he would, too. “San Antonio does it. Golden State has incorporated it. There’s a number of teams that have parts of the triangle that they use.

Phil's close friend doesn't agree you can use parts of the Triangle.

“If you run the triangle, you have to make a total commitment to the triangle,’’ said Rosen, who writes a technical basketball column for todaysfastbreak.com. “It’s not like a part-time thing that you just use some of it. If that’s your offense, you got to commit to it. It doesn’t look like they’re really committed to it.

I agree using elements of the Triangle would be great. That's why I was hopeful about Walton, I thought he could update it. It's why I was hopeful about Blatt (and still would be happy if they hired him), I thought he could update it.

The problem is stubbornly trying to run the system the way it was run in Chicago or LA without adapting to the personnel on the roster and adapting to the three point shot - the latter Phil has pointedly said is not real basketball.

newyorker4ever wrote:It sounded like he was just talking to talk and there's no way he'll be the next Knicks head coach, we all know that's Rambis' job.

If it's Rambis's job why hasn't he been hired yet? I think Phil got some pushback from Mills and Dolan. And obviously from Melo. I think Blatt is more likely at this point. And maybe Vogel. Hopefully with Phil in Chicago we'll get an answer soon. At the player interviews in Chicago, it's been Houston leading them with Phil sitting in. No Rambis.

crzymdups wrote:Also, another nugget from that same article - apparently the offer to Hernangomez that was reported as gospel by some here is false. Guess you can't believe everything you read

Andy Miller, the agent for Knicks stash pick Willy Hernangomez, told The Post “there is no validity” to a report by Spanish outlet Encestando that the team had offered his client a four-year, $4.5 million deal. The 6-foot-11 center turned down two offers from Real Madrid and could end up at the Garden next year.

I am guessing that the situation is a technical nuance. As in, they are going back and forth on what a comfortable price is for both sides but the actual offer has not been engaged (and maybe that's cause the Knicks can't do it until a certain date?)

newyorker4ever wrote:It sounded like he was just talking to talk and there's no way he'll be the next Knicks head coach, we all know that's Rambis' job.

I believe the triangle criticism is somewhat justified. For example, it was invented before the existence of the three point line. The component that is alive and well is the dynamic offense which identifies locations on the floor pursuant to which players have (i) open shots and (ii) maximum PPP efficiency. I think the justified criticism may be the percentage of shots taken between 10-21 feet in the triangle. Spacing really needs to be a bit more expanded to maximize good three point shots and shots at the rim. This can be accomplished with "TRIANGLE" but the reservation to a specific shape is a reference to the triple post -- shots that are now resulting in lower PPP than an offense centered around players that can shoot out to the 3 pt line with efficiency, can get to the FT line at a decent clip and can pass and move.

Triangle seems to be focused on bigger players and with the strength and plethora of players between 6'7 and 6'11, size just isn't as dominating as it used to be. Phil is hanging his hat on Kris P to engineer this version of the triangle around size again and this becomes a function of whether the system can bring Kris to maximum efficiency. Given the number of mid range shots he takes and the percentage he hits at, I am not so convinced it maximizes anything about Kris. But it is only his first year on it. This year may be better. I hope it clicks.

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:It sounded like he was just talking to talk and there's no way he'll be the next Knicks head coach, we all know that's Rambis' job.

If it's Rambis's job why hasn't he been hired yet? I think Phil got some pushback from Mills and Dolan. And obviously from Melo. I think Blatt is more likely at this point. And maybe Vogel. Hopefully with Phil in Chicago we'll get an answer soon. At the player interviews in Chicago, it's been Houston leading them with Phil sitting in. No Rambis.

So Phil is in Chicago?? I thought i read somewhere that he's not there. Are you sure of this cause i only know what i've read and we all know how that goes??

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:It sounded like he was just talking to talk and there's no way he'll be the next Knicks head coach, we all know that's Rambis' job.

If it's Rambis's job why hasn't he been hired yet? I think Phil got some pushback from Mills and Dolan. And obviously from Melo. I think Blatt is more likely at this point. And maybe Vogel. Hopefully with Phil in Chicago we'll get an answer soon. At the player interviews in Chicago, it's been Houston leading them with Phil sitting in. No Rambis.

So Phil is in Chicago?? I thought i read somewhere that he's not there. Are you sure of this cause i only know what i've read and we all know how that goes??

Oh I misread this tweet. I thought the player said Phil WAS present at meeting... but he was NOT.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/HerringWSJ/status/730894818579091458

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:It sounded like he was just talking to talk and there's no way he'll be the next Knicks head coach, we all know that's Rambis' job.

If it's Rambis's job why hasn't he been hired yet? I think Phil got some pushback from Mills and Dolan. And obviously from Melo. I think Blatt is more likely at this point. And maybe Vogel. Hopefully with Phil in Chicago we'll get an answer soon. At the player interviews in Chicago, it's been Houston leading them with Phil sitting in. No Rambis.

That's fine as long as you realize that at this moment its only your made up theory and nothing more and you don't try to pawn it off as a fact. Then get yourself worked up over said theories.

It's a read of the situation given what we know is true. Yes, it could be wrong, but the longer this gets dragged out the more I suspect some serious internal disagreement on the coaching position.

There were reports from a lot of sources that Phil wanted Rambis, including the impecable Ramona Shelburne of ESPN who has deep sources with the Lakers, including Jeanie Buss. Shelburne is one of the most highly respected reporters in the entire league, and friends with Phil's partner, and she said Rambis was the choice. So it's not like it has been pulled out of thin air.

And if Rambis was the choice and almost a month after the season ended, with the Chicago draft combine happening, no coach named... reports of Dolan having blocked the Rambis hire, Melo openly requesting an open coaching search, Blatt brought in for an interview who is close friends with Steve Mills, the rest of the Knicks silent, Phil on a two week vacation (and counting) while the draft combine is going on and while the team has no coach officially named...

We don't know EXACTLY what is going on, but I think a picture is starting to emerge.

I think Phil is being pressured to hire Blatt. The Vogel firing changed things up a bit, maybe muddied the water. But I think Phil is being asked to seriously consider Blatt by Mills. The report that Melo prefers Blatt that Berman wrote? You think Berman just pulled that out of his butt one morning? Or do you think someone who wanted to spin public perception leaked Berman some info to get a story written? You know who normally leaks things to Berman to try to get him to report their spin? The Knicks front office aka Mills aka the guy whose starting backcourt partner in college and best man at his wedding was named David Blatt.

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:It sounded like he was just talking to talk and there's no way he'll be the next Knicks head coach, we all know that's Rambis' job.

If it's Rambis's job why hasn't he been hired yet? I think Phil got some pushback from Mills and Dolan. And obviously from Melo. I think Blatt is more likely at this point. And maybe Vogel. Hopefully with Phil in Chicago we'll get an answer soon. At the player interviews in Chicago, it's been Houston leading them with Phil sitting in. No Rambis.

That's fine as long as you realize that at this moment its only your made up theory and nothing more and you don't try to pawn it off as a fact. Then get yourself worked up over said theories.

It's a read of the situation given what we know is true. Yes, it could be wrong, but the longer this gets dragged out the more I suspect some serious internal disagreement on the coaching position.

There were reports from a lot of sources that Phil wanted Rambis, including the impecable Ramona Shelburne of ESPN who has deep sources with the Lakers, including Jeanie Buss. Shelburne is one of the most highly respected reporters in the entire league, and friends with Phil's partner, and she said Rambis was the choice. So it's not like it has been pulled out of thin air.

And if Rambis was the choice and almost a month after the season ended, with the Chicago draft combine happening, no coach named... reports of Dolan having blocked the Rambis hire, Melo openly requesting an open coaching search, Blatt brought in for an interview who is close friends with Steve Mills, the rest of the Knicks silent, Phil on a two week vacation (and counting) while the draft combine is going on and while the team has no coach officially named...

We don't know EXACTLY what is going on, but I think a picture is starting to emerge.

I think Phil is being pressured to hire Blatt. The Vogel firing changed things up a bit, maybe muddied the water. But I think Phil is being asked to seriously consider Blatt by Mills. The report that Melo prefers Blatt that Berman wrote? You think Berman just pulled that out of his butt one morning? Or do you think someone who wanted to spin public perception leaked Berman some info to get a story written? You know who normally leaks things to Berman to try to get him to report their spin? The Knicks front office aka Mills aka the guy whose starting backcourt partner in college and best man at his wedding was named David Blatt.

There is no doubt to me that Phil feels burned by Fish as well as Kerr to a much smaller degree. It was pretty open that Phil had tapped Kerr and was negotiating with him and that Kerr accepted. GSW came up and I can see a scenario where Phil felt a bit used, even though he gave his blessing for Kerr to go. Was Kerr using the Knicks as leverage for the GSW position and his fallback were the Knicks?

Phil plainly doesn't want to go through that any more. No more using the Knicks as a place of mention by free agents and coaches as a destination while trying to use it as leverage for another play.

Maybe the decision has already been made and all parties know it and they will release when they damn well please. What is the difference between today and the day after finals? Nothing.

Maybe they just finishing out the contract with Blatt who has already agreed and just wants to dot all the i's and cross all the t's.

Maybe Phil wants to coach 1 more year and wants to have Blatt as his #1 and has to think that over for a long time. And has assured Blatt that if he doesn't feel up to it that it's all his.

Maybe Phil is just whack and wants to smoke some more until the Spirits tell him what to do.

All valid. I do think Phil will emerge from his vision quest in Montana with an answer. I'm starting to think he must realize it can't be Rambis. I do think there is some truth to the angle that he tested the waters with Rambis and was told "do better." We shall see.

Golden state I believe run a very difficult offense. It doesn't have a name so nobody has anything to reference. Everyone is crediting that team with being modern because they sit so many three pointers. I think they shot so many the pointers because they have 2 of the best 3pt shooters in NBA history. They are also surrounded by a bunch of good 3 pt shooters. They would be stupid if they tried to dump it down to Bogut.... so all the negative comments just ignorant in my opinion.

The Knicks are building their own team. There are no Curry or Thompsons out there in free agency. Dies that mean we have to sign Conley to the max Cuz he can shoot the 3? The Knicks have a very good front court that will improve. They have some youth in the back court. They can sign a quality 3pt shooter in the off season.

Now so much is brought up about Phil forcing the triangle, but with the personnel on the roster, wouldn't the triangle be the best option? Of course it had to be modified for the personnel. It's basketball not astrophysics. Am offense is a way of organizing players. Basketball is still basketball. Golden state funnels the ball to the 3pt shooters. Depending on what the end product is, we will be funneling everything inside first. We have a confident Grant and Wroten now. Things don't have to start with Rolo in the post. Now we can run that 2 man game and attack the rim... funneling the ball to the towards our front 3 of KP, Melo and Rolo. And if you think the offense can't be modified them you are just ignorant. Again basketball is basketball. Phil ran the offense 5 different ways with Chicago and the Lakers. You can't cop out and say they had the best players. You can't have it both ways.