knicks1248 wrote:

While San Antonio GM R.C. Buford won Executive of the Year, Jackson didn’t get a single vote. Fourteen of the 30 executives got at least one third-place vote, including the Sixers’ Sam Hinkie and Milwaukee’s John Hammond. The voting is done by the team GMs/presidents.

Phil the coach, is far different from phil the prez. sam hinke, got a vote...lmao..

That's why it's going to be tough for phil to make trades, he's not very well like, and he doesn't associate with much of anybody in the front office through out the league..thats why Mills is in the loop, and he hasn't done much himself

Far beit for you to be objective. BTW, teams will deal with knicks when they have something to offer. Phil is smug, but what GM is so loved that teams just love dealing with them? Khan? Who loves to trade with what GM? So why is Phil any different? You Think if knicks have a player another wants they won't reach out and make a fair deal? Knicks have not had much to trade with the last few years so we can't base it on that.

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

While San Antonio GM R.C. Buford won Executive of the Year, Jackson didn’t get a single vote. Fourteen of the 30 executives got at least one third-place vote, including the Sixers’ Sam Hinkie and Milwaukee’s John Hammond. The voting is done by the team GMs/presidents.

Phil the coach, is far different from phil the prez. sam hinke, got a vote...lmao..

That's why it's going to be tough for phil to make trades, he's not very well like, and he doesn't associate with much of anybody in the front office through out the league..thats why Mills is in the loop, and he hasn't done much himself

Far beit for you to be objective. BTW, teams will deal with knicks when they have something to offer. Phil is smug, but what GM is so loved that teams just love dealing with them? Khan? Who loves to trade with what GM? So why is Phil any different? You Think if knicks have a player another wants they won't reach out and make a fair deal? Knicks have not had much to trade with the last few years so we can't base it on that.

Seems like teams had no issue trading with Phil. The thing is this isn't really an issue IMO. MILLS is the GM!!! He's the one doing all the talking with other GM's and so forth. Phil has a team and isn't doing everything all alone. Phil trusts his staff when it comes to scouting. He wasn't the one doing it. He said he pays more attention to NBA players.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

While San Antonio GM R.C. Buford won Executive of the Year, Jackson didn’t get a single vote. Fourteen of the 30 executives got at least one third-place vote, including the Sixers’ Sam Hinkie and Milwaukee’s John Hammond. The voting is done by the team GMs/presidents.

Phil the coach, is far different from phil the prez. sam hinke, got a vote...lmao..

That's why it's going to be tough for phil to make trades, he's not very well like, and he doesn't associate with much of anybody in the front office through out the league..thats why Mills is in the loop, and he hasn't done much himself

Far beit for you to be objective. BTW, teams will deal with knicks when they have something to offer. Phil is smug, but what GM is so loved that teams just love dealing with them? Khan? Who loves to trade with what GM? So why is Phil any different? You Think if knicks have a player another wants they won't reach out and make a fair deal? Knicks have not had much to trade with the last few years so we can't base it on that.

Seems like teams had no issue trading with Phil. The thing is this isn't really an issue IMO. MILLS is the GM!!! He's the one doing all the talking with other GM's and so forth. Phil has a team and isn't doing everything all alone. Phil trusts his staff when it comes to scouting. He wasn't the one doing it. He said he pays more attention to NBA players.

mills is a puppet, or else blatt would be the guy already.. You ever see Mills address the media alone like most GM's.

Phil got the worse part of every trade he's done, he basically had a yard sale

As for Mills, he's the GM and of course works for Phil. Calling him a puppet is childish. They work together for the benefit of the team. Talking about Mills being alone is also silly. He's doing more of the day to day work of a GM. Phil isn't sitting in the office making calls etc. You really need to stop with this nonsense. These points are weak and not befitting of a Knick fan that's supposed to know better.

jrodmc wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

mreinman wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

mreinman wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Probably the lone highlight of Jackson's regime so far is hiring Clarence Gaines Jr in the summer of 2014.

Is that "nepotism"? Or part of the process of decision making. Bring in people you know, trust and admire?
He hired Kerr.
He did not panic and starphuck. Instead he tore it down making us endure a 17 win season. We had a top 4 pick and no other way to get a cornerstone player than to go that route.
He resigned Melo, who is either a 22p scorer or trade chip asset.
He Trade Tyson. Sorry, the guy was toast. So was Felton. If you think he could have done better prove it. If you hoped he could have done better he might even agree with "hope".

Nothing any GM does is always perfect. This roster was crap and we didn't even have our pick. Who else should run this place and why would he have done better??

Overall decent moves. Although you take away KP playing as he did in first half of year and your left with even more criticism. Does stink seeing Shump and JR close to sweeping the Hawks and playing major minutes. I know we were not getting anything for them at the time but would have been nice to let them play into some kind of value. Or until Cleveland offered something for them. Anything. Just don't see many teams giving up former sith man and young talented stop defenders for nothing.

it seems like we sold low across the board. Phil wanted to play it slow but he should have started selling right when he came in while there was still some value. Its not always best to be slow and deliberate.

JR Smith never had value when he was in New York cause he was a tool bag the whole time with us and EVERYONE from us fans to every writer/media guy was saying we would never be able to get anyone to take on JR and his contract so we gave up Shump for Clev to take him and we weren't gonna re-sign Shump after the season anyway so it was a good deal to get rid of him and i'll take L.Thomas and the future 2nd round picks over JR and Shump all day long. So lets not act like the JR trade was a bad trade now that you see JR not being a tool bag like he was in New York.

JR was a toolbag here but perhaps Phil could have worked with him/them. Not be like Woody and allow him to do whatever JR wanna do.

JR just may not be capable of working in NY but even if we all agreed with it then, its still looks shaky now.

Lance Thomas is a FA so we may have nothing from him. 2nd round picks are ok but almost always fail.

The main issue that I have was not trading Chandler and probably Melo right away. He could have gotten a ton for them. Look what Cleveland gave up for Mozgov.

Phil is obviously a really smart guy but unfortunately, he is not a young guy who has time to make all these mistakes and reboots.

He has to put up this year and there are absolutely no excuses. He will have that chance.

We got all we could for JR and Tyson at that time and keeping them just would of kept them being the same people they were when they were with us. Tyson wanted out of New York and no team but Dallas wanted to take him and his contract on so he got all he could for him and the same with JR. Phil came in with the plan of rebuilding this team and to do that he needed to get rid of every bad contract we had so he did that with getting rid of Tyson, JR and Bargnani and he also needed to get rid of every player that wasn't good for the team in the locker room because he wanted to build a team that played basketball as a team and weren't causing any distractions that would take away from the team and those 3 were a part of that especially JR.

he should have not have waited to trade chandler in the offseason, he should have traded him when he got there. He would have gotten 4 times more than he got.

Hired in mid March, trade deadline in Feb

true but it was in the works or waiting in the wings by the trade deadline. The lowry trade was there too but "rumor" had it that phil said "no trades"

he seemed to have (possibly) already had a say.

Pretty sure that's not how things work.

You can't accuse a prospective President of a team for not making a trade a month or more before he was hired. That's just stupid. You got the timeline wrong, that's all.

its not stupid and that is a bit rude ...

jackson was talking to them for months. Its stupid to believe that he COULD NOT have had a say or any suggestions in the process.

no, it's stupid on about a thousand different levels

agree

It was an impressive try at a save though.

no save. read closer.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

While San Antonio GM R.C. Buford won Executive of the Year, Jackson didn’t get a single vote. Fourteen of the 30 executives got at least one third-place vote, including the Sixers’ Sam Hinkie and Milwaukee’s John Hammond. The voting is done by the team GMs/presidents.

Phil the coach, is far different from phil the prez. sam hinke, got a vote...lmao..

That's why it's going to be tough for phil to make trades, he's not very well like, and he doesn't associate with much of anybody in the front office through out the league..thats why Mills is in the loop, and he hasn't done much himself

Far beit for you to be objective. BTW, teams will deal with knicks when they have something to offer. Phil is smug, but what GM is so loved that teams just love dealing with them? Khan? Who loves to trade with what GM? So why is Phil any different? You Think if knicks have a player another wants they won't reach out and make a fair deal? Knicks have not had much to trade with the last few years so we can't base it on that.

Seems like teams had no issue trading with Phil. The thing is this isn't really an issue IMO. MILLS is the GM!!! He's the one doing all the talking with other GM's and so forth. Phil has a team and isn't doing everything all alone. Phil trusts his staff when it comes to scouting. He wasn't the one doing it. He said he pays more attention to NBA players.

mills is a puppet, or else blatt would be the guy already.. You ever see Mills address the media alone like most GM's.

Phil got the worse part of every trade he's done, he basically had a yard sale

Most of Phil's trades have been him just trying to dump players he didn't want. Don't try and make it seem like he's traded for a cornerstone piece. That's not what he's been doing so far.

As for Mills, he's the GM and of course works for Phil. Calling him a puppet is childish. They work together for the benefit of the team. Talking about Mills being alone is also silly. He's doing more of the day to day work of a GM. Phil isn't sitting in the office making calls etc. You really need to stop with this nonsense. These points are weak and not befitting of a Knick fan that's supposed to know better.

If i didn't know better, i would say you have a better relationship with Phil then rambis, infact.... i would think you guys speak twice a wk.

You mind as well stand at the podium and answer everyones question, you always know what he's thinking, his game plan, why he's doing this or that.

You defend phil as if he is your only son, you know phil better than..well...phil himself. Your love for phil is as bad as DK's hate for melo

You know why I defend Phil? He's the Prez who stopped the madness and led to drafting KP! He only had 1 pick but drafted 6 players. We aren't capped out but again will be able to sign FA's or make trades. This is just the 2nd full season so its not like he's been here for a long time and nothing good has happened. He massively upgraded the D League team to where it is a respectable tool for the franchise. He's had some flops but also has a chance to correct the situation this summer.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

While San Antonio GM R.C. Buford won Executive of the Year, Jackson didn’t get a single vote. Fourteen of the 30 executives got at least one third-place vote, including the Sixers’ Sam Hinkie and Milwaukee’s John Hammond. The voting is done by the team GMs/presidents.

Phil the coach, is far different from phil the prez. sam hinke, got a vote...lmao..

That's why it's going to be tough for phil to make trades, he's not very well like, and he doesn't associate with much of anybody in the front office through out the league..thats why Mills is in the loop, and he hasn't done much himself

Far beit for you to be objective. BTW, teams will deal with knicks when they have something to offer. Phil is smug, but what GM is so loved that teams just love dealing with them? Khan? Who loves to trade with what GM? So why is Phil any different? You Think if knicks have a player another wants they won't reach out and make a fair deal? Knicks have not had much to trade with the last few years so we can't base it on that.

Seems like teams had no issue trading with Phil. The thing is this isn't really an issue IMO. MILLS is the GM!!! He's the one doing all the talking with other GM's and so forth. Phil has a team and isn't doing everything all alone. Phil trusts his staff when it comes to scouting. He wasn't the one doing it. He said he pays more attention to NBA players.

mills is a puppet, or else blatt would be the guy already.. You ever see Mills address the media alone like most GM's.

Phil got the worse part of every trade he's done, he basically had a yard sale

Most of Phil's trades have been him just trying to dump players he didn't want. Don't try and make it seem like he's traded for a cornerstone piece. That's not what he's been doing so far.

As for Mills, he's the GM and of course works for Phil. Calling him a puppet is childish. They work together for the benefit of the team. Talking about Mills being alone is also silly. He's doing more of the day to day work of a GM. Phil isn't sitting in the office making calls etc. You really need to stop with this nonsense. These points are weak and not befitting of a Knick fan that's supposed to know better.

If i didn't know better, i would say you have a better relationship with Phil then rambis, infact.... i would think you guys speak twice a wk.

You mind as well stand at the podium and answer everyones question, you always know what he's thinking, his game plan, why he's doing this or that.

You defend phil as if he is your only son, you know phil better than..well...phil himself. Your love for phil is as bad as DK's hate for melo

You know why I defend Phil? He's the Prez who stopped the madness and led to drafting KP! He only had 1 pick but drafted 6 players. We aren't capped out but again will be able to sign FA's or make trades. This is just the 2nd full season so its not like he's been here for a long time and nothing good has happened. He massively upgraded the D League team to where it is a respectable tool for the franchise. He's had some flops but also has a chance to correct the situation this summer.

Its perfectly fine to defend him, I defend him myself. However I don't think he has been perfect, far from it. I have always given him credit for KP. I said from Day 1 I loved the jerian grant trade. Also I admit was wrong about Lopez, that was a good move. However other signings like afflalo weren't good. Also the Tyson and shumpert/jr smith trades were not good because we didn't maximize the return. Also the head coaching has been a fiasco. So far Phil has been ok as president, he still has a lot to prove so hopefully he can do it

I actually like every thing phil has done, but the coaching situation has made the franchise look dysfunctional once again. This triangle cult like situation is also bad for business.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

While San Antonio GM R.C. Buford won Executive of the Year, Jackson didn’t get a single vote. Fourteen of the 30 executives got at least one third-place vote, including the Sixers’ Sam Hinkie and Milwaukee’s John Hammond. The voting is done by the team GMs/presidents.

Phil the coach, is far different from phil the prez. sam hinke, got a vote...lmao..

That's why it's going to be tough for phil to make trades, he's not very well like, and he doesn't associate with much of anybody in the front office through out the league..thats why Mills is in the loop, and he hasn't done much himself

Far beit for you to be objective. BTW, teams will deal with knicks when they have something to offer. Phil is smug, but what GM is so loved that teams just love dealing with them? Khan? Who loves to trade with what GM? So why is Phil any different? You Think if knicks have a player another wants they won't reach out and make a fair deal? Knicks have not had much to trade with the last few years so we can't base it on that.

Seems like teams had no issue trading with Phil. The thing is this isn't really an issue IMO. MILLS is the GM!!! He's the one doing all the talking with other GM's and so forth. Phil has a team and isn't doing everything all alone. Phil trusts his staff when it comes to scouting. He wasn't the one doing it. He said he pays more attention to NBA players.

mills is a puppet, or else blatt would be the guy already.. You ever see Mills address the media alone like most GM's.

Phil got the worse part of every trade he's done, he basically had a yard sale

Most of Phil's trades have been him just trying to dump players he didn't want. Don't try and make it seem like he's traded for a cornerstone piece. That's not what he's been doing so far.

As for Mills, he's the GM and of course works for Phil. Calling him a puppet is childish. They work together for the benefit of the team. Talking about Mills being alone is also silly. He's doing more of the day to day work of a GM. Phil isn't sitting in the office making calls etc. You really need to stop with this nonsense. These points are weak and not befitting of a Knick fan that's supposed to know better.

If i didn't know better, i would say you have a better relationship with Phil then rambis, infact.... i would think you guys speak twice a wk.

You mind as well stand at the podium and answer everyones question, you always know what he's thinking, his game plan, why he's doing this or that.

You defend phil as if he is your only son, you know phil better than..well...phil himself. Your love for phil is as bad as DK's hate for melo

You know why I defend Phil? He's the Prez who stopped the madness and led to drafting KP! He only had 1 pick but drafted 6 players. We aren't capped out but again will be able to sign FA's or make trades. This is just the 2nd full season so its not like he's been here for a long time and nothing good has happened. He massively upgraded the D League team to where it is a respectable tool for the franchise. He's had some flops but also has a chance to correct the situation this summer.

Its perfectly fine to defend him, I defend him myself. However I don't think he has been perfect, far from it. I have always given him credit for KP. I said from Day 1 I loved the jerian grant trade. Also I admit was wrong about Lopez, that was a good move. However other signings like afflalo weren't good. Also the Tyson and shumpert/jr smith trades were not good because we didn't maximize the return. Also the head coaching has been a fiasco. So far Phil has been ok as president, he still has a lot to prove so hopefully he can do it

Starks i generally like your post and think they're well reasoned but i don't see the basis for either of the above. Was there another superior trade he turned down for Shump and JR that we don't know about? It could be the case that at the time that was the best he could get; and waiting to the end of the season would have been worse. I always thought of the trade as Shumpert, but whoever took him would need to take JR and his antics with the trade. Anyway, superficially, I agree with you; it seems they should have been worth more, but i think it's a little silly to think Phil didn't get the best he could get at the time. (Jets got Brandon Marshall for peanuts; Bears fans probably have the same criticism but i'm sure 31 other teams (or whatever the number is) passed on him by not offering a slightly better draft pick)

And I don't get the fiasco business either. Seems like Phil had the eye for talent with Kerr. But you can't force the man to coach the Knicks and Kerr reneged. Fisher was all talk -- but who would you have signed instead (or who should Phil have signed instead). In any event, I think it's over-reacting to call it a fiasco. Was Blatt a fiasco in CLevland? Fisher lasted longer than he did

I know Knicks fans are quite frustrated (and with good reason), but why is it that everything less than 18 straight holes in one is bad.

Chandler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

While San Antonio GM R.C. Buford won Executive of the Year, Jackson didn’t get a single vote. Fourteen of the 30 executives got at least one third-place vote, including the Sixers’ Sam Hinkie and Milwaukee’s John Hammond. The voting is done by the team GMs/presidents.

Phil the coach, is far different from phil the prez. sam hinke, got a vote...lmao..

That's why it's going to be tough for phil to make trades, he's not very well like, and he doesn't associate with much of anybody in the front office through out the league..thats why Mills is in the loop, and he hasn't done much himself

Far beit for you to be objective. BTW, teams will deal with knicks when they have something to offer. Phil is smug, but what GM is so loved that teams just love dealing with them? Khan? Who loves to trade with what GM? So why is Phil any different? You Think if knicks have a player another wants they won't reach out and make a fair deal? Knicks have not had much to trade with the last few years so we can't base it on that.

Seems like teams had no issue trading with Phil. The thing is this isn't really an issue IMO. MILLS is the GM!!! He's the one doing all the talking with other GM's and so forth. Phil has a team and isn't doing everything all alone. Phil trusts his staff when it comes to scouting. He wasn't the one doing it. He said he pays more attention to NBA players.

mills is a puppet, or else blatt would be the guy already.. You ever see Mills address the media alone like most GM's.

Phil got the worse part of every trade he's done, he basically had a yard sale

Most of Phil's trades have been him just trying to dump players he didn't want. Don't try and make it seem like he's traded for a cornerstone piece. That's not what he's been doing so far.

As for Mills, he's the GM and of course works for Phil. Calling him a puppet is childish. They work together for the benefit of the team. Talking about Mills being alone is also silly. He's doing more of the day to day work of a GM. Phil isn't sitting in the office making calls etc. You really need to stop with this nonsense. These points are weak and not befitting of a Knick fan that's supposed to know better.

Phil's trades have multiple intents. He gets the players and assets he wants and by "wants" we mean those assets that are sufficient. He may not be trying to win talent for talent deals alone. Talent for useful assets and goodwill that rebuilds the league's confidence in doing business with the Knicks is equally valuable.

The message of the trades - "we're not trying to offer foolish exchanges and we won't accept foolish exchanges of over-priced, silently injured names to be dumped here" and to the players - "come here and we'll take care of you or send you to a decent career situation".

The Knicks front-office is deep and smart - this is not some lone wolf organization. Mills is being groomed, the coaching staff is mature and trusted, and Phil is not a fool. The criticism of these people has nothing to do with fairness, its delusional.

I like this thinking. In the investment world people know enough to look at more than returns. they care about things like "variance" too. One big loss or down year can be crippling, e.g., if you go down 50%; you need to go up 100% just to get back to even. In the past we had a lot of bad, losing trades, e.g., Curry, Bargs, etc. Phil is clearly avoiding that stuff for now, and if he bets big on a player i think he's going to want to be real sure about that investment, not "being agressive" "jumping on it" or whatever other nonsense. That stuff sounds good (i.e., pablum) but I can't think of a single instance where it has ever been successful

Good analogy. Knick fans usually want and crave change when things are not going great and have confused "change" with "improvement". New coach, new starphuch to wish upon in free agency, etc. The best teams make lots of small "investments" and then create luck buy increasing the opportunity exposure. I have used SAS drafting Manu at #57 and then he don't come over for 3 years as a good example. I use Drafting George hill at 29th, then he eclipses Tony Parker to start, then SAS trades him for the 15th pick and they take Leonard, who needed a few years to blossom. Can't make good trades if you don't have decent assets. JR Smith was a bonehead and Shump with his "Beefs" was called out even by Woodson to grow up and focus on basketball. I dont' regret drafting him as he was talented but he came with risk.

Regarding the overall frustration that "Phil could have done better", either in trades or hiring Fish I will say it for the 100th time, not everything goes to plan and we don't know the value offered in trades by teams and when they were offered. This is heady stuff for some.

Really, its just fun for me. I enjoy the intrigue that is phil. Others, some how feel like Phil is being disrespectful and Berman and co. are just playing with you. That's some funny shyt there!!

Maybe Phil thinks Rambis is the right man at this time. In two years, its not like there won't be other coach's available either then.
Phil is taking his time. Some of you have backed into the corner to involve Dolan to back up your theory that he was "all irresponsible and ready to go with Rambis until Dolan let him know that was not good and now he MIGHT be forced to hire someone else".

As if any of us really know.