Face facts with Isiah, he did a very sub-par job in Toronto, Stoudamire has been a very overated player, he had the number two pick in the draft that was filled with Kobe, Marbury, Allen, Shareef, and many others it was the best draft in history perhaps and he took Marcus....who i love and really would like on the Knicks, but he is often injured and has no offensive game outside of 8 feet.....McGrady was a nice choice, but then what happened in the CBA, it shut down after Isiah took control......The Norris deal was stupid, and he has added a ton of money.......Jordan did an awful Job, with the Wizards who should have hamilton and elton brand, instead they have Kwame Brown, Jefferies, and Jamison.....Chris Mullin is another player that is doing a terrible job, Foyle, Fisher lets be realistic.....Elgin Baylor let Andre Miller get away for nothing, let Lamar Odom and Q go for nothing, and let the Kandi man walk when he could have suckered teams into taking him.....GM's on a whole are pretty questionable

besides, no one was aware of kobes talent at that time...u really think the hornets would have traded him for vlade if they did?

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by DefAndReb:

Crawford has been a huge disappointment ever since coming into the league. On a bad team, he's had every opportunity to be a go-to guy or a team leader, and he has failed. Only take a guy like this if you're not paying him too much. JYD is over-the-hill, even though I like his energy, but he's not going to have much impact unless he's off the bench - another overpaid bench warmer. ERobb is done. He may as well be named Lee Nailon.

Remember, Shandon was hyped young, and now look what you get. That could be Crawford in two years, and with an unmovable contract. There is no way Isiah can turn this team into a contender this season, even taking on ludicrous contracts where the team operates at a lower profit margin, which defeats the purpose of running a sports business. So why break the bank on an iffy swing guard?

For every Chauncey Billups (a big dud until recently) there are ten Travis Knight's. How much are you willing to risk that Crawford will defy the odds and suddenly become a consistent player? Remember, talent is a great lie - it's consistency that counts.

Sure, we'd all love to dump Anderson, but how much better is Crawford? Oh, sure, he may have one or two great performances, but he needs to have 60-70 to be worth clearing out all our trading power. Think, man, think. Crawford will NOT bring this team a championship. He will only provide a modest improvement over last year's squad. How much is a modest improvement worth?

So you're basically saying your ability to evaluate whether a young PG/SG like Jamal has the skills and ability to succeed is better than the ability to reach that evaluation that legendary PGs like Isiah and Lenny have? That's quite a bold statement.

I'm saying he's good enough to be a backup, so he should get paid like a backup. To pay him like a starter when he couldn't even blow up on the worst team in the league? Not worth the risk.

Again, no one knows the future. It's like shooting craps. So, you look at the odds. The odds are not in Crawford's favor. He ain't Bobby Jackson.

You are right, Craw is not Bobby Jackson. He is better. Craw can be just as good or better then Bobby Jackson of the bench, or he can be a starter, something Jackson has never been. To say that Craw is not as good as Jackson is just not right. His skills are far better and he is much bigger.

Crawford has been a huge disappointment ever since coming into the league.

*exaggeration alert*

On a bad team, he's had every opportunity to be a go-to guy or a team leader, and he has failed.

Go-to guy and team leader is not a sweeping statement you make about a guy who is only 23 years old. Those are the kind of attributes a player grows into (although there are exceptions to the rule). Regardless, the maturation process hasn’t been helped by playing on a disaster area known as the Chicago Bulls. What, he was supposed to turn them around all by himself?

Remember, Shandon was hyped young, and now look what you get. That could be Crawford in two years, and with an unmovable contract.

Comparing Shandon Anderson to Jamal Crawford I see. Well, that’s a stretch like Armstrong--- but I’ll indulge you. Jamal is a talented scorer with a potentially limitless offensive game who put up great numbers despite being immersed in a dysfunctional and rudderless organization.

Shandon was a hustle and energy player with an offensive game as pretty as George Muresan in drag. Shandon played with two hall of famers in a Sloan led system that is known for making mediocre players look average, average players look good, ext…

There is no way Isiah can turn this team into a contender this season, even taking on ludicrous contracts where the team operates at a lower profit margin, which defeats the purpose of running a sports business.

No way they can be a contender? Please.

What the Knicks are a mom and pop organization now? Worried about their profit margin? Enough of the Andy the Accountant stuff. Shoot, this fan base supported the knicks during the embarrassing Layden run. Its not as if the Jamal Crawford contract will be the difference between me affording courtside seats at a Knicks home game anytime soon. That’s a problem for that wanksta Dolan. I wouldn’t stay awake at night worrying about his ledger sheets.

For every Chauncey Billups (a big dud until recently) there are ten Travis Knight's. How much are you willing to risk that Crawford will defy the odds and suddenly become a consistent player?

So now we are evoking the name of Travis Knight? How fair and accurate. Crawford averaged 17 pts last year, its not a long shot to say he can build on that. This isn’t a Chris Childs situation. Evidence at this point suggests he easily has consistent All-Star level talent. His offensive game is far superior to that of Billups at their respective stages. “Defy the odds” is a bit strong.

Remember, talent is a great lie - it's consistency that counts.

Talent isn’t the great lie, the great lie is “she’s only a friend honey”. If talent is a liar, then Crawford is a regular ole George Bush, because he has me convinced he can become a perennial All-Star. He’s not far from that level now. Lamar Odom would be a better comparison.

“Sure, we'd all love to dump Anderson, but how much better is Crawford?… Think, man, think. Crawford will NOT bring this team a championship. He will only provide a modest improvement over last year's squad. How much is a modest improvement worth?”

Alright, lets cut the b.s. The only comparison between Shandon and Crawford is that both are Black and they urinate standing up. I don’t know why you keep pushing that. Would I rather have Kevin Garnett instead of Jamal? Of course, but Jamal is a nice young talent that can serve as a BUILDING BLOCK to a championship, not the final piece. In the coming years we will have other expiring contracts that can be turned into the final pieces that CAN BRING a championship. If you are willing to show some patience

Posted by simrud:

You are right, Craw is not Bobby Jackson. He is better. Craw can be just as good or better then Bobby Jackson of the bench, or he can be a starter, something Jackson has never been. To say that Craw is not as good as Jackson is just not right. His skills are far better and he is much bigger.

Not even close. Guys who blow up for 50 points once in a blue moon are not as valuable to a team as a guy who always plays defense, hustles for the ball, and makes big plays when it counts. Crawford isn't fit to tie Bobby's sneaks, because Bobby has the fire, and Crawford doesn't.

Typical of the young NBA fans, you guys think that scoring is the most important aspect of the game. It isn't. Jamal has no other strengths. He's not a great passer, defender, hustler, and he lacks a winning attitude, as evidenced by years of sucking in Chicago.

Again, you guys miss the point of my post, but I'm used to that. I'd take Crawford, and I would root for him to become an all-around great ballplayer, but I would not pay him a starter's salary just because Allan is a gimp and Crawford is young and "talented". Knicks are not winning a championship this season, with or without Crawford, so they shouldn't cut off their nose to spite their face. If we do get him, I'm behind him. I agree that he has potential, but you guys act like he's already proven himself. I think he sucks right now.

Alright, lets cut the b.s. The only comparison between Shandon and Crawford is that both are Black and they urinate standing up.

Both are inconsistent, lack passion, and play for losing teams. Yeah, they're totally different. Stats and highlight reels are meaningless to me; the only thing that matters is the number of W's. The Knicks need guys who want to win and play to win. Could Crawford become that guy? Sure. Like you guys said, he's still young enough to turn it around. He's definitely the best swing guard available on the block, and I'd love to see Shandon out of here, but if you overpay the guy and he plays the same as he plays in Chicago, Knicks got screwed with an overpaid scrub who no one wants, and it's no different to me than having Shandon still on the team.

The Knicks need a star player. Marbury is not all that. He's not a good PG in the true sense of the position. He's a very talented athlete, but he's not a good team leader, and teammates tend to dislike him. I'm not a fan of PG's who like to shoot the ball: Marbs, Francis, GP. Overspending for Crawford will not compensate for Marbury's weaknesses or Allan's lack of desire.

I have faith in Zeke not to pull Moochie from the deal. Don't bend for the Bulls, Isiah! Crawford is not our saviour, so don't give up too much! If Paxson won't take Moochie, then don't take Crawford, which is my point.

I've never been against a Crawford deal, I can think of things much worse i.e Antoine Walker and Malike Rose. I agree with you on some aspects---he doesnt compare to Bobby Jackson in terms of mental intensity, he hasnt made any of his teams even slightly better, no other team in the league wants to pay him

BUT here is the arguement for him. There is no doubt about 3 things
A We cannot acquire Jamal with the MLE-so we will have to pay more
B H2O is a gimp but the knicks have a huge payroll[want to win NOW} and cant afford to go into the season with andersen again[although he is no where near as bad as some people think--he needs another team]
C. While he is a selfish player with fundamental skill problems and questionable character I can think of someone similar before he went to Detroit Chauncey Billups


Ive come to grips that NY will just pay more for players. That being said if we do indeed give up what amounts to junk+FW for Crawford--anyway you look at it it's a smart deal. Personally I would go in a different direction but like I said we could do much worse. Im not going to be against any Crawford deal as long as the salary stays on average around 8mm

Posted by djsunyc:

the fact that people that criticize crawford forget is that he's still a developing player and he's not a superstar. maybe he can't step in and carry a team like iverson did but he's still young, athletic, and has exhibited the potential to become a really major player. he's been a talented player on a team comprised of players under the age of 24 and constantly lose. put him in a situation like the knicks where he can see how players like steph, h20, and kurt work (as well as sweets) along with isiah and lenny and he will grow into a better player b/c of it. so anyway you cut it, it's a good deal.

i also believe that if we don't get the deal done, we're still ok

great points!

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by djsunyc:

the fact that people that criticize crawford forget is that he's still a developing player and he's not a superstar. maybe he can't step in and carry a team like iverson did but he's still young, athletic, and has exhibited the potential to become a really major player. he's been a talented player on a team comprised of players under the age of 24 and constantly lose. put him in a situation like the knicks where he can see how players like steph, h20, and kurt work (as well as sweets) along with isiah and lenny and he will grow into a better player b/c of it. so anyway you cut it, it's a good deal.

i also believe that if we don't get the deal done, we're still ok

great points!

I agree. Good post.