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Patience evaluation.
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arkrud
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When Knicks will be in top 4 teams in the East?
2 Years
3 Years
5 Years
10 Years
100 Years
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arkrud
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3/29/2016  8:49 AM
I think 5 years if fair number.
3 is not an impossibility.
If Dolan will take control back team will not be any good in his lifetime.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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Bonn1997
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3/29/2016  8:57 AM
You have to outlive Dolan if you want to see this happen
Moonangie
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3/29/2016  9:02 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:You have to outlive Dolan if you want to see this happen

There's some truth to this, but maybe he will play with different toys in his sandbox for a few years.
ChuckBuck
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3/29/2016  9:13 AM
I don't see 200 years as an option.
Vmart
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3/29/2016  9:51 AM
We haven't made the playoff the last 3 years that Melo has been the main option. I don't see it happening with him as the main focal point. The talent level is pretty weak especially the guard position with no pick this year I can't see the Knicks being good next year. With another year under his belt Melo will be older and just as injury prone as before if not more. KP hopefully grows as a player and takes the team over and Melo become the second focal point.

If the Knicks and Melo part ways I see he Knicks being relevant in 3 years. But if Melo decides to stay I see things changing in 5-6 years. At his moment Melo is the real true asset the Knicks have to get better at multiple positions faster.
ChuckBuck
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3/29/2016  9:59 AM
Vmart wrote:We haven't made the playoff the last 3 years that Melo has been the main option. I don't see it happening with him as the main focal point. The talent level is pretty weak especially the guard position with no pick this year I can't see the Knicks being good next year. With another year under his belt Melo will be older and just as injury prone as before if not more. KP hopefully grows as a player and takes the team over and Melo become the second focal point.

If the Knicks and Melo part ways I see he Knicks being relevant in 3 years. But if Melo decides to stay I see things changing in 5-6 years. At his moment Melo is the real true asset the Knicks have to get better at multiple positions faster.

Yes. Melo is the one true asset the Knicks have to speed it up from a 4 to 5 year rebuild to a 3 year rebuild window. Any combination of 1st rd, 2nd rd, and role players Melo fetches will be talent to surround KP with to coincide with KP's prime.

That's the whole point of the "Trade Me7o" movement. Get something while you can for him, before his value is zero. His prime and KP's prime don't parallel each other. Melo did his best "DadMelo" impersonation for KP, now it's time for Phil to talk to Melo about the virtues about going out on top at his advanced age, and to waive his NTC.
callmened
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3/29/2016  11:50 AM
im very optimistic that once melo is gone, and this is truly KP's team then this team will be good in a few yrs. just have to be patient, let him develop and build a young core around him
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
Sangfroid
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3/29/2016  2:02 PM
If the team continues to build around Porzingas AND Anthony, we can expect them to finish in the top 4 spots within 2-3 years. As composed, the Knicks have second tier backcourt components. The defensive efforts from Affalo and Calderone are laughable. The same can be said for their ability to penetrate and dish,or go all the way to the rim. With hard defensive efforts, the two of them can be thrown off their respective games. Carmelo is a 20+ point scorer, as well as an adequate rebounder. To believe that he can be traded to a team, seeking that final piece to push them into the finals, for a treasure trove of picks and talent is also short sighted. Most of these teams have first round pick late in the draft and are usually reluctant to give up talented players in trades. We are a few pieces from our goal. The front court is evolving,and work has begun on the backcourt. Give it the time that it deserves.
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crzymdups
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3/29/2016  4:09 PM
Possible in ten years. Maybe Dolan will have sold the team by then.
¿ △ ?
arkrud
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3/29/2016  6:59 PM
We get 2 players in the first rebuild year in KP (draft) and RoLo (FA) and it is relatively common to get 2 players in a year who are a fit.
Team need 9-10 solid players to compete so we need 3-4 more years to assemble the team.
This is my logic about 5 year time frame.
We also need to get an elite coach and stabilize the coaching stuff and this can take a couple of years too.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
BRIGGS
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3/29/2016  9:42 PM
I base everything on KP and IF I could trade Melo for 3-4 assets including 3 draft assets in this draft--in spots that I think we could really benefit--Id do it. I think the age disparity is too much between Melo and KP and this is our opportunity--the next two years to put players around KP for the next 10. Melo will be 42 and out of this league for years by then. Id keep Melo if LBJ was coming here--other than that--if you sit on it---think about it --we have one draft pick the next 3 years and 20 teams have more cap space than us this summer. This is a chance to get much younger and BETTER--more exciting. Is Carmelo Anthony going to get less injury prone? We havent won many games with him the last 3 years. If he was that good wed still win 43-45 games like we did with a healthy Bernard King.
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nixluva
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3/29/2016  9:44 PM
arkrud wrote:We get 2 players in the first rebuild year in KP (draft) and RoLo (FA) and it is relatively common to get 2 players in a year who are a fit.
Team need 9-10 solid players to compete so we need 3-4 more years to assemble the team.
This is my logic about 5 year time frame.
We also need to get an elite coach and stabilize the coaching stuff and this can take a couple of years too.

The coach spot could be solved this summer. Rambis hasn't exactly locked up the job with his performance. So IMO there is a very high possibility of a new coach being hired.

If we're talking about adding 2 high quality starters this summer, then this team could see a pretty substantial improvement. We get good production from our bigs. The guards and wings need to be upgraded and young players further developed. The speed of improvement will depend on just how well Phil does in Free Agency and how much we can get out of the young prospects we have in development. All of that is up in the air right now. Who knows how Free Agency will go?
crzymdups
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3/29/2016  9:46 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I base everything on KP and IF I could trade Melo for 3-4 assets including 3 draft assets in this draft--in spots that I think we could really benefit--Id do it. I think the age disparity is too much between Melo and KP and this is our opportunity--the next two years to put players around KP for the next 10. Melo will be 42 and out of this league for years by then. Id keep Melo if LBJ was coming here--other than that--if you sit on it---think about it --we have one draft pick the next 3 years and 20 teams have more cap space than us this summer. This is a chance to get much younger and BETTER--more exciting. Is Carmelo Anthony going to get less injury prone? We havent won many games with him the last 3 years. If he was that good wed still win 43-45 games like we did with a healthy Bernard King.

We have our first round picks in 2017 and 2018. Just don't have it in 2016.

We can't trade Melo unless he says so. I think he might this summer to the Clippers, but that's a mighty big might. If we struggle next season, he might at the trade deadline.

I would be somewhat surprised if Melo finishes the 2016-7 season a Knick. But it might not be til next trade deadline.

¿ △ ?
callmened
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3/29/2016  10:11 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I base everything on KP and IF I could trade Melo for 3-4 assets including 3 draft assets in this draft--in spots that I think we could really benefit--Id do it. I think the age disparity is too much between Melo and KP and this is our opportunity--the next two years to put players around KP for the next 10. Melo will be 42 and out of this league for years by then. Id keep Melo if LBJ was coming here--other than that--if you sit on it---think about it --we have one draft pick the next 3 years and 20 teams have more cap space than us this summer. This is a chance to get much younger and BETTER--more exciting. Is Carmelo Anthony going to get less injury prone? We havent won many games with him the last 3 years. If he was that good wed still win 43-45 games like we did with a healthy Bernard King.

i 100% agree with this post

see i AM able to agree with BRIGGS. at our cores i think we have the same philosophy. we just go about it in different ways.

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
arkrud
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3/29/2016  10:41 PM
callmened wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I base everything on KP and IF I could trade Melo for 3-4 assets including 3 draft assets in this draft--in spots that I think we could really benefit--Id do it. I think the age disparity is too much between Melo and KP and this is our opportunity--the next two years to put players around KP for the next 10. Melo will be 42 and out of this league for years by then. Id keep Melo if LBJ was coming here--other than that--if you sit on it---think about it --we have one draft pick the next 3 years and 20 teams have more cap space than us this summer. This is a chance to get much younger and BETTER--more exciting. Is Carmelo Anthony going to get less injury prone? We havent won many games with him the last 3 years. If he was that good wed still win 43-45 games like we did with a healthy Bernard King.

i 100% agree with this post

see i AM able to agree with BRIGGS. at our cores i think we have the same philosophy. we just go about it in different ways.

I am in the same camp but I think Melo will roll his contract up to the wire.
It's fine as he will be one of this 9-10 solid players group.
If however by some strange turn of events he will get traded for fair value we can cut the rebuild time by 1-2 years....
But this is unlikely.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
jrodmc
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3/30/2016  8:48 AM
Great. Another pointless trade Melo thread.

1) We can't win with Melo, even when we did, we didn't. I really hate Melo.
2) But his value is so high right now, other teams will give us their 1st born, best players and build us new buildings for him. Interesting how that works, huh?
3) I really just hate Melo.
4) I really like KP. Alot. He's not Melo. Even when he's playing bad, he's better than watching Melo play great. I'd really pay extra money for KP to play his position and Melo's [at the same time], if we could just get rid of Melo. Yeah, 4 on 5 wouldn't be all that bad if I didn't have to see Melo.
5) I'm really just frustrated because I haven't been able to cut and paste "no defense, inefficient chucker" in a while.
6) I'm glad Melo's a good teammate, because he should be a great teammate somewhere else. I really hate Melo.
7) Phil kept Melo and gave him a NTC. That just has to be Dolan, Satan, CAA and Phil's secret evil Zen. Plus Melo is just a team cancer. Oh wait...
8) Our guardplay really sucks, but that's because Melo is still here. Damn you, Phil Jackson!
9) I really truly believe in my heart that although Melo wanted and received a NTC on a 5 year contract, he was just really kidding, because he knows how much I hate him.
10) I'm really just concerned about Melo's legacy. I like him so much, I want him to actually win chips somewhere else. Yeah, that's it, secretly I love Melo...
ChuckBuck
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3/30/2016  8:53 AM
jrodmc wrote:Great. Another pointless trade Melo thread.

1) We can't win with Melo, even when we did, we didn't. I really hate Melo.
2) But his value is so high right now, other teams will give us their 1st born, best players and build us new buildings for him. Interesting how that works, huh?
3) I really just hate Melo.
4) I really like KP. Alot. He's not Melo. Even when he's playing bad, he's better than watching Melo play great. I'd really pay extra money for KP to play his position and Melo's [at the same time], if we could just get rid of Melo. Yeah, 4 on 5 wouldn't be all that bad if I didn't have to see Melo.
5) I'm really just frustrated because I haven't been able to cut and paste "no defense, inefficient chucker" in a while.
6) I'm glad Melo's a good teammate, because he should be a great teammate somewhere else. I really hate Melo.
7) Phil kept Melo and gave him a NTC. That just has to be Dolan, Satan, CAA and Phil's secret evil Zen. Plus Melo is just a team cancer. Oh wait...
8) Our guardplay really sucks, but that's because Melo is still here. Damn you, Phil Jackson!
9) I really truly believe in my heart that although Melo wanted and received a NTC on a 5 year contract, he was just really kidding, because he knows how much I hate him.
10) I'm really just concerned about Melo's legacy. I like him so much, I want him to actually win chips somewhere else. Yeah, that's it, secretly I love Melo...

Quick question. Do you actually see Melo realistically winning a championship let alone get out of the first round in the next 3 seasons?

That's what it really boils down to for him and the Knicks.
jrodmc
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3/30/2016  2:24 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Great. Another pointless trade Melo thread.

1) We can't win with Melo, even when we did, we didn't. I really hate Melo.
2) But his value is so high right now, other teams will give us their 1st born, best players and build us new buildings for him. Interesting how that works, huh?
3) I really just hate Melo.
4) I really like KP. Alot. He's not Melo. Even when he's playing bad, he's better than watching Melo play great. I'd really pay extra money for KP to play his position and Melo's [at the same time], if we could just get rid of Melo. Yeah, 4 on 5 wouldn't be all that bad if I didn't have to see Melo.
5) I'm really just frustrated because I haven't been able to cut and paste "no defense, inefficient chucker" in a while.
6) I'm glad Melo's a good teammate, because he should be a great teammate somewhere else. I really hate Melo.
7) Phil kept Melo and gave him a NTC. That just has to be Dolan, Satan, CAA and Phil's secret evil Zen. Plus Melo is just a team cancer. Oh wait...
8) Our guardplay really sucks, but that's because Melo is still here. Damn you, Phil Jackson!
9) I really truly believe in my heart that although Melo wanted and received a NTC on a 5 year contract, he was just really kidding, because he knows how much I hate him.
10) I'm really just concerned about Melo's legacy. I like him so much, I want him to actually win chips somewhere else. Yeah, that's it, secretly I love Melo...

Quick question. Do you actually see Melo realistically winning a championship let alone get out of the first round in the next 3 seasons?

That's what it really boils down to for him and the Knicks.

Quicker rhetorical answer/question: Do you actually believe we are any closer to a chip without him for the next three seasons? Because that's the net/net for me.

Are you going to keep asking to trade him for all of the next three years?

He's a great player that's improved and is a documented mentor to KP. He has a NTC. He came here when no one else of any actual value would.

Move on.
ChuckBuck
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3/30/2016  2:44 PM
jrodmc wrote:
He came here when Brooklyn couldn't muster up the right package of picks and players to Denver no one else of any actual value would.

Move on.

Fixed.
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