Paris907 wrote:Given that Thibs is a hard nose defensive minded coach, would Rondo/Gordon/Batum/Fournier/ make sense ? Do Calderon/OQuinn/Seraphin/AMUNDSON make sense ? Do some trades make more sense under one coach than the other? We don't have a Butler or Joaquin in prime but Lopez and KP do lock up shooters down low.

In terms of building the team I don't think it matters which coach we bring in. The team needs a quality starting backcourt and that will benefit any coach they could possibly consider. There will be options available for this team to improve significantly in the backcourt.

Our Frontcourt should be more than enough for Thibs to work with. I don't know what Dolan thinks about the idea of Phil bringing in Thibs. Has there been enough time for him to have let go of his beef with Thibs? Does Phil have enough clout to higher him and make Dolan relax on his issues? We'll see.

Then there's the question of whether Phil himself is willing to move on from the staff he has? These are in the greatest sense of the word "his guys". It could be that he feels he can improve the roster enough for things to get better without having to let his guys go. It's really gonna be very interesting to watch this summer.

Thibs was a top assistant on the Olympic teams, so all the stars and the top players that tried out for USA basketball have nothing but respect for him.

Rambis on the other hand is known as the dude that has one of the worst losing percentages as a coach and benched Kevin Love.

newyorker4ever wrote:

Paris907 wrote:Given that Thibs is a hard nose defensive minded coach, would Rondo/Gordon/Batum/Fournier/ make sense ? Do Calderon/OQuinn/Seraphin/AMUNDSON make sense ? Do some trades make more sense under one coach than the other? We don't have a Butler or Joaquin in prime but Lopez and KP do lock up shooters down low.

NBA.com reported that the Knicks have the best defensive field goal percentage at the rim in the entire NBA and that's thanks to KP and Rolo.

I think they are tops around the 3 point line too but not exactly sure

martin wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Paris907 wrote:Given that Thibs is a hard nose defensive minded coach, would Rondo/Gordon/Batum/Fournier/ make sense ? Do Calderon/OQuinn/Seraphin/AMUNDSON make sense ? Do some trades make more sense under one coach than the other? We don't have a Butler or Joaquin in prime but Lopez and KP do lock up shooters down low.

NBA.com reported that the Knicks have the best defensive field goal percentage at the rim in the entire NBA and that's thanks to KP and Rolo.

I think they are tops around the 3 point line too but not exactly sure

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Paris907 wrote:Given that Thibs is a hard nose defensive minded coach, would Rondo/Gordon/Batum/Fournier/ make sense ? Do Calderon/OQuinn/Seraphin/AMUNDSON make sense ? Do some trades make more sense under one coach than the other? We don't have a Butler or Joaquin in prime but Lopez and KP do lock up shooters down low.

In terms of building the team I don't think it matters which coach we bring in. The team needs a quality starting backcourt and that will benefit any coach they could possibly consider. There will be options available for this team to improve significantly in the backcourt.

Our Frontcourt should be more than enough for Thibs to work with. I don't know what Dolan thinks about the idea of Phil bringing in Thibs. Has there been enough time for him to have let go of his beef with Thibs? Does Phil have enough clout to higher him and make Dolan relax on his issues? We'll see.

Then there's the question of whether Phil himself is willing to move on from the staff he has? These are in the greatest sense of the word "his guys". It could be that he feels he can improve the roster enough for things to get better without having to let his guys go. It's really gonna be very interesting to watch this summer.

The two young guys we have coaching are D.Fisher guys that he brought on so i don't see either coming back unless Rambis gets the job and likes them. Their names are Keefe and Longstaff and both came from the OKC team where Fisher obviously played the year before we got him. The Phil guys are K.Rambis, R.Hazzard and J.Cleamons.

I didn't talk about the 2 young coaches because I see them as not being consequential in this overall scheme of things. Phil's guys are his long time older coaches and I just wonder if he's ready to push them out in favor of another coach like Thibs or Blatt. A kid like Luke might not have a problem with keeping the older coaches around since he already knows them.

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:If Phil actually used common sense and logic one time to hire Thibs, it would be an absolute boon for recruiting.

Thibs was a top assistant on the Olympic teams, so all the stars and the top players that tried out for USA basketball have nothing but respect for him.

Rambis on the other hand is known as the dude that has one of the worst losing percentages as a coach and benched Kevin Love.

I like Thibs but when you go all Rainman on it the logic gets lost in the dots.
Players can't rely on coach's being here when they considering free agency.

You also rely too much on past performance. The conditions and players between Rambis in Minny and here are not the same.
Blatt benched Love many times last season.

MDA coached Team USA as well. Neither him nor Thibs would ever go full tilt on players given the situation.
My only concern with Thibs is his obsessive nature and has been polarizing with management in Chicago. Reinsdorf hired him, and Del Negro over Gar Heard and Paxson who objected.
That's a bad situation Thibs walked into. Rambis was hired by Taylor and Kahn was the GM. Neither was in synch with each other.

The big question is if he decided to go with the best coach available Thibs, would Phil let Tom have full rein? Short history with the Knicks says no, but people can change if they step back and look at the big picture.

Would he let Tom install his version of the triangle, put in his much lauded defensive principles, but only butt in to make sure personnel and roster isn't over extended like what Tom done in the past? So far Phil has been like the puppeteer to Fisher and Rambis, his way or the highway, and when Fish deviated a little from Phil's scheme, he got the axe (rightfully so). But this is a different animal. Tom has established himself in a short time to be a bright mind himself, will Phil allow Tom to do this thing if hired?

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:If Phil actually used common sense and logic one time to hire Thibs, it would be an absolute boon for recruiting.

Thibs was a top assistant on the Olympic teams, so all the stars and the top players that tried out for USA basketball have nothing but respect for him.

Rambis on the other hand is known as the dude that has one of the worst losing percentages as a coach and benched Kevin Love.

I like Thibs but when you go all Rainman on it the logic gets lost in the dots.
Players can't rely on coach's being here when they considering free agency.

You also rely too much on past performance. The conditions and players between Rambis in Minny and here are not the same.
Blatt benched Love many times last season.

MDA coached Team USA as well. Neither him nor Thibs would ever go full tilt on players given the situation.
My only concern with Thibs is his obsessive nature and has been polarizing with management in Chicago. Reinsdorf hired him, and Del Negro over Gar Heard and Paxson who objected.
That's a bad situation Thibs walked into. Rambis was hired by Taylor and Kahn was the GM. Neither was in synch with each other.

The big question is if he decided to go with the best coach available Thibs, would Phil let Tom have full rein? Short history with the Knicks says no, but people can change if they step back and look at the big picture.

Would he let Tom install his version of the triangle, put in his much lauded defensive principles, but only butt in to make sure personnel and roster isn't over extended like what Tom done in the past? So far Phil has been like the puppeteer to Fisher and Rambis, his way or the highway, and when Fish deviated a little from Phil's scheme, he got the axe (rightfully so). But this is a different animal. Tom has established himself in a short time to be a bright mind himself, will Phil allow Tom to do this thing if hired?

Maybe this whole "Phil coaches home games" BS and the process of quashing that allows Phil the ability to step back and hire a respected name like Thibs.

I think Fish's off court antics led as much to his getting axed as anything he said or actually did, coaching-wise. Phil first and foremost doesn't want his Knicks legacy to be a one-off, lite version of the IT nightmare.

I also don't believe he's going to cram Rambis down somebody's throat, especially someone of Thib's stature. And Rambis isn't Herb Williams, anyway. I doubt Rambis wants anything else in this situation to than to either be head coach or gone somewhere else.

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:If Phil actually used common sense and logic one time to hire Thibs, it would be an absolute boon for recruiting.

Thibs was a top assistant on the Olympic teams, so all the stars and the top players that tried out for USA basketball have nothing but respect for him.

Rambis on the other hand is known as the dude that has one of the worst losing percentages as a coach and benched Kevin Love.

I like Thibs but when you go all Rainman on it the logic gets lost in the dots.
Players can't rely on coach's being here when they considering free agency.

You also rely too much on past performance. The conditions and players between Rambis in Minny and here are not the same.
Blatt benched Love many times last season.

MDA coached Team USA as well. Neither him nor Thibs would ever go full tilt on players given the situation.
My only concern with Thibs is his obsessive nature and has been polarizing with management in Chicago. Reinsdorf hired him, and Del Negro over Gar Heard and Paxson who objected.
That's a bad situation Thibs walked into. Rambis was hired by Taylor and Kahn was the GM. Neither was in synch with each other.

The big question is if he decided to go with the best coach available Thibs, would Phil let Tom have full rein? Short history with the Knicks says no, but people can change if they step back and look at the big picture.

Would he let Tom install his version of the triangle, put in his much lauded defensive principles, but only butt in to make sure personnel and roster isn't over extended like what Tom done in the past? So far Phil has been like the puppeteer to Fisher and Rambis, his way or the highway, and when Fish deviated a little from Phil's scheme, he got the axe (rightfully so). But this is a different animal. Tom has established himself in a short time to be a bright mind himself, will Phil allow Tom to do this thing if hired?

Who is a better coach? Thibs or Phil?
And before you get the "Did Thibs have Kobe or Jordan".....Remember that Bulls did not win before phil nor did the lakers.
Thibs had Lebron in the East. Not his fault. But 11 rings grants you the right to pull the strings and if you must, you phuching dance!

Coaching wise, no contest. Remember though, Phil is only an executive for roughly 2 years, so he's new to this whole management thing. Different animal altogether. Only a few have excelled at both. Riley, Popovich, Bird. So far Phil hasn't been the greatest President, his short record with the Knicks says so at least.

It ultimately might come down to this offseason for Phil Jackson as to how he will be judged as an executive. He'll have to pick the right coach for the next 4 to 5 years, the right free agents, and do his best to get into the draft this summer. Fair or unfair, this summer will be how Phil's tenure as Knicks president will be viewed.

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:If Phil actually used common sense and logic one time to hire Thibs, it would be an absolute boon for recruiting.

Thibs was a top assistant on the Olympic teams, so all the stars and the top players that tried out for USA basketball have nothing but respect for him.

Rambis on the other hand is known as the dude that has one of the worst losing percentages as a coach and benched Kevin Love.

I like Thibs but when you go all Rainman on it the logic gets lost in the dots.
Players can't rely on coach's being here when they considering free agency.

You also rely too much on past performance. The conditions and players between Rambis in Minny and here are not the same.
Blatt benched Love many times last season.

MDA coached Team USA as well. Neither him nor Thibs would ever go full tilt on players given the situation.
My only concern with Thibs is his obsessive nature and has been polarizing with management in Chicago. Reinsdorf hired him, and Del Negro over Gar Heard and Paxson who objected.
That's a bad situation Thibs walked into. Rambis was hired by Taylor and Kahn was the GM. Neither was in synch with each other.

The big question is if he decided to go with the best coach available Thibs, would Phil let Tom have full rein? Short history with the Knicks says no, but people can change if they step back and look at the big picture.

Would he let Tom install his version of the triangle, put in his much lauded defensive principles, but only butt in to make sure personnel and roster isn't over extended like what Tom done in the past? So far Phil has been like the puppeteer to Fisher and Rambis, his way or the highway, and when Fish deviated a little from Phil's scheme, he got the axe (rightfully so). But this is a different animal. Tom has established himself in a short time to be a bright mind himself, will Phil allow Tom to do this thing if hired?

Who is a better coach? Thibs or Phil?
And before you get the "Did Thibs have Kobe or Jordan".....Remember that Bulls did not win before phil nor did the lakers.
Thibs had Lebron in the East. Not his fault. But 11 rings grants you the right to pull the strings and if you must, you phuching dance!

Coaching wise, no contest. Remember though, Phil is only an executive for roughly 2 years, so he's new to this whole management thing. Different animal altogether. Only a few have excelled at both. Riley, Popovich, Bird. So far Phil hasn't been the greatest President, his short record with the Knicks says so at least.

It ultimately might come down to this offseason for Phil Jackson as to how he will be judged as an executive. He'll have to pick the right coach for the next 4 to 5 years, the right free agents, and do his best to get into the draft this summer. Fair or unfair, this summer will be how Phil's tenure as Knicks president will be viewed.

That's pretty darn diplomatic answer for you.

So why would you want him to install his own version of the triangle? But lets be real, If phil hired him its because they do see eye to eye and Phil would have faith in him. And Thibs should only follow his bosses game plan, which includes feed back and intuitive feedback and recommendations!!!

Phil being a maverick himself, would likely get a kick that Dolan would be a bit uncomfortable with it but see it as a teaching moment for Dolan! Phil in his infinite wisedom and arrogance would sell it to Dolan. Lets just say Phil is self made man and Dolan is not.

Thanks. I range from half to full retard at times, maybe I'm tripolar!

I'm sure if Thibs were somehow hired by Phil, he'd get all the intricacies of the triangle from Phil himself, and then throw in a few of his Chicago wrinkles if Phil was okay with it.

Maybe more so than Phil, would be how would Dolan feel about a JVG/Pat the Rat disciple steering the ship. Either way, if both Phil and Dolan took a step away from their perch for a few moments and saw the entire coaching landscape, they'd probably see Thibs as the best man for the job, PERIOD.

Triangle wise, Phil would have to grant interviews to Walton, Shaw, Rambis for Triangle's sake etc...but at the end of the day, how could you not go with the best man for the job. Other non Triangle tree considerations should be Blatt, Brooks, but I feel with Thibs knowledge of New York being an assistant all those years, he'd be a perfect fit to deal with the drama.