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the big and final sticking point in Crawford deal
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BRIGGS
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7/28/2004  11:11 PM
the NY Knick organization is viewing the contract offer to Crawford"as savings to the Bulls of 50+mm over 6 years" and chicago doesn't quite see it that way---that is the reason why this deal is absolutely dead and likely has no chance of revival.
RIP Crushalot😞
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timmyTtop
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7/29/2004  12:08 AM
wait hold up, ITS DEAD?
Knicksfan
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7/29/2004  12:41 AM
It's not over until it's over.
Knicks_Fan
Knicksfan
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7/29/2004  12:45 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

the NY Knick organization is viewing the contract offer to Crawford"as savings to the Bulls of 50+mm over 6 years" and chicago doesn't quite see it that way---that is the reason why this deal is absolutely dead and likely has no chance of revival.

Why so negative, BRIGGS? Not even the news papers, who may still have no idea about what's really happening in the deal, are so negative that are calling it dead with no chance of revival. Why so negative? Why so definitive?

No matter what the articles report, we still have to wait and see.
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timmyTtop
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7/29/2004  1:03 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:

It's not over until it's over.


hellz yeah, isiah isnt gonna let this blow over so easily, if he wants to hold onto deke this badly its for another trade thats more worth it than this... the fact that their still talking about crawford and this deal after what? 3-4 weeks? shows they both wanna get this done.
Rich
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7/29/2004  1:34 AM
Is there a link, or is this merely conjecture?
Rich
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7/29/2004  2:07 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/25764.htm

ISIAH STILL SHOOTING FOR CRAWFORD DEAL

By MARC BERMAN

July 29, 2004 -- The five-hour summit at Chicago's O'Hare Airport Tuesday between Knicks president Isiah Thomas and Bulls GM John Paxson did not achieve a sign-and-trade settlement for Jamal Crawford, but the sides seem so close it would seem only egos stand in the way now.

They exchanged phone calls yesterday, having left on what officials say were positive terms, though it could be August before the deal is hatched.

During the summit, Thomas, with cap man Frank Murphy at his side, compromised by throwing Dikembe Mutombo back into the deal, but Paxson still balked. That's because Moochie Norris is still in the package and Paxson views Norris' pact a lot more prohibitive than it really is. The strongest Thomas offer had Mutombo, Shandon Anderson, Norris and $3 million going to Chicago for Crawford and the bad contracts of Jerome Williams (3 years, $18 million) and Eddie Robinson (two years, $13.9M).

Including Crawford's prospective new contract of six years, $55 million, the Knicks would add $90 million in guaranteed money — that includes the $3M handout — while shedding $37 million.

The Knicks would be doing the Bulls a big favor by taking Williams and Robinson off their hands. Both players dislike Bulls coach Scott Skiles.

The Bulls are eager to add Anderson for his defense and Mutombo for his mentor capabilities and contract status, being in the final year. But Paxson wants one more player in his final year — Othella Harrington — to close the deal.

Thomas is asking Paxson to take Norris with the contention that he, in essence, is a final-year player. By adding $3 million, that almost pays for his $3.8M wage this season. Norris gets $4.2M in the second year and his final year is not guaranteed — a team option. Thomas' unwillingness to have Harrington and Mutombo both involved also stems from saving them for a possible deal for Antoine Walker or Erick Dampier.

The Knicks still are alive in the Walker sweepstakes and Thomas can take heart that yet another player wants to play for the club, as he boldly stated over the weekend.

To get Walker from Dallas, the Knicks could need a third team. If it's a straight-up deal, Kurt Thomas would be the centerpiece.

If the Knicks pull off the Crawford trade, completing another sign-and-trade for Dampier will be difficult but not impossible. Warriors GM Chris Mullin, as reported by The Post 10 days ago, was willing to take Nazr Mohammed and Harrington. But while Dampier met with the Hawks, Mullin traded for Dale Davis.

The Knicks still feel Mullin will spend the summer sifting through the best offers.

*

Only formalities remain in the re-signing of free agent Vin Baker, who could be the Knicks' starting power forward if Kurt Thomas is traded. He'll be officially inked by either tomorrow or early next week, as the Knicks are willing to pay him a starting wage of $3M.





BRIGGS
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7/29/2004  2:45 AM
read the chicago papers the knicks still believe they are relieving the bulls of a huge commitment-but the disparity is just crawford's money.
if you value crawford at his current value

which is 3.5mm + the 35mm by the other 2 players

while they are getting back deke 4.9 moochie 8mm and andersen 24mm
that =37mm

if you throw in 3mm still what benefit is chicago seeing? nothing but losing the better player.
RIP Crushalot😞
Rich
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7/29/2004  2:50 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-040728bulls,1,2574596.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

Knicks pushing Norris

By K.C. Johnson
Tribune staff reporter

July 28, 2004, 11:04 PM CDT

Knicks President Isiah Thomas is trying to convince Bulls general manager John Paxson that Moochie Norris' salary is similar to Othella Harrington's as the latest sign-and-trade discussions for Jamal Crawford resumed by phone Wednesday.

The Bulls want Harrington to join Shandon Anderson and Dikembe Mutombo in the deal because his contract expires after next season. Norris has three years left, but the Knicks are offering $3 million cash to pay one year and the third is a team option that the Bulls could decline.

But Paxson won't budge from his and Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf's stance of seeking optimum financial relief if Crawford is dealt.

Copyright © 2004,
Rich
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7/29/2004  2:52 AM
http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38196126

Paxson meets with Thomas on Crawford deal

By Mike McGraw Daily Herald Sports Writer
Posted Wednesday, July 28, 2004


Bulls general manager John Paxson did the polite thing and agreed to Isiah Thomas' request for a meeting Tuesday to discuss a sign-and-trade deal for Jamal Crawford.

Before consenting to the rendezvous with his New York Knicks counterpart, Paxson was not at all optimistic that he and Thomas would be able to work something out.

Paxson was unavailable for comment Tuesday evening, but a team official said there was no indication of an agreement being reached.

It appeared that the one accomplishment Tuesday was Paxson successfully replacing his cell phone, which went on the fritz last week during the Rocky Mountain Revue summer league.

The meeting began in the afternoon at a location near O'Hare Airport. Paxson brought special assistant Gar Forman and financial and legal expert Irwin Mandel.

Crawford's agent, Aaron Goodwin, claimed last week that a sign-and-trade deal could be completed if Thomas and Paxson met face to face.

But this negotiation has been at a stalemate for weeks. The Bulls are willing to swap a re-signed Crawford, plus Eddie Robinson and Jerome Williams for Shandon Anderson, Dikembe Mutombo, Othella Harrington and Frank Williams. That combination would save the Bulls about $8.5 million in future salaries.

Thomas wants to substitute guard Moochie Norris and project center Cezary Trybanski for Mutombo, but the Bulls are adamant about not adding Norris or compromise candidate Penny Hardaway to their roster.

Goodwin keeps pushing for a trade to New York, even though the difference in Crawford's potential salaries is small.

In the seven-player trade the Bulls favor, Crawford could earn $42.8 million over six years. The Bulls' offer to the 6-foot-5 guard is around $39 million for six seasons.

Crawford, 24, was the Bulls' top scorer last year at 17.3 points per game. The Bulls added 6-2 guard Ben Gordon in the draft but still have a need for a tall shooting guard.

• The Bulls announced the signings of first-round draft picks Gordon and Luol Deng on Tuesday.

Under the NBA's rookie wage scale, Gordon will get a guaranteed $10.8 million over three seasons, while Deng signed for $7.3 million over three years.


(Paxson senses that Isiah is desperate to make a move.)
raven
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7/29/2004  2:58 AM
Don't be sonegative, be patient instead. The more we'll be close to the season, the more Paxson will have to trade craw because he really doesn't want to have himp back now.

Just imagine that stuff, williams, robinson and crawford, three that were happy to be tarded and now would have to go back to the bulls ? wow, that's a recipe for disaster.

the bulls can't afford that.
BigSm00th
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7/29/2004  3:00 AM
Losing 3 players who don't want to play for you, and acquiring Mutumbo who Paxson said wanted to tudor the Baby Bulls.

Nobody is praising the hardline stance of Thomas. The market for Crawford has been lukewarm, he's getting an average deal, and he's negotiating very well so far. Hasn't conceded anything, and if the Knicks walk away with Jamal Crawford for only Mutumbo, Anderson, and Norris, WOW! Frank Williams is still on the roster, and they shed two bad contracts in Anderson and Norris for at least a serviceable JYD. Eddie Robinson's a bum.

If it comes down to the 11th hour and Isiah's gotta swap Norris with Harrington to get the deal, I'm fine with it. But as of now, he's making Paxson wait longer and longer, and all the while Crawford's getting angrier and it looks bad for the Bulls.
#Knickstaps
raven
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7/29/2004  4:16 AM
Posted by BigSm00th:

If it comes down to the 11th hour and Isiah's gotta swap Norris with Harrington to get the deal, I'm fine with it. But as of now, he's making Paxson wait longer and longer, and all the while Crawford's getting angrier and it looks bad for the Bulls.

agree. let them suffer a lil bit. That doesn't hurt.
Rich
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7/29/2004  4:20 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/216784p-186554c.html

Knicks offer Kurt in deal for Dampier

BY FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

The Knicks may have improved their chances of acquiring Erick Dampier by offering Kurt Thomas in the proposed deal for the Warriors' free-agent center, according to a league source.

The Warriors were considering a sign-and-trade for Dampier that would have included the Knicks sending center Nazr Mohammed and forward/center Othella Harrington to Golden State. However, the Warriors last week acquired Portland center Dale Davis in a trade for Nick Van Exel.

The Atlanta Hawks are also interested in Dampier and they have enough salary-cap room to sign him out-right. The Warriors could still re-sign Dampier or move him in a sign-and-trade to one of several interested teams, including the Knicks, Pacers and Grizzlies.

Thomas has more trade value than any other Knick because he's a starting player with a reasonable contract. Harrington, who is entering the final year of his contract, is still included in the new proposal.

Dikembe Mutombo, who like Harrington is in the final year of his contract, has been included in the Knicks' latest proposal to Chicago for free agent Jamal Crawford. Knicks president Isiah Thomas is trying to acquire Crawford along with Eddie Robinson and Jerome Williams for Mutombo, Shandon Anderson and Moochie Norris.

The Bulls, however, are refusing to take back Norris, even though Thomas has agreed to pay the first year of Norris' contract. The third year of Norris' contract is not guaranteed, meaning Chicago would pay only next year's salary worth approximately $4.2 million.

Originally published on July 29, 2004




Bonn1997
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7/29/2004  4:43 AM
The Knicks may have improved their chances of acquiring Erick Dampier by offering Kurt Thomas in the proposed deal for the Warriors' free-agent center, according to a league source.
They have Troy Murphy at PF. Why would they kill their cap room over the next 4 years on a 32 yr old PF who is not even a significant upgrade?

Originally posted by BigSm00th:

If it comes down to the 11th hour and Isiah's gotta swap Norris with Harrington to get the deal, I'm fine with it. But as of now, he's making Paxson wait longer and longer, and all the while Crawford's getting angrier and it looks bad for the Bulls.
agree. let them suffer a lil bit. That doesn't hurt.

Yeah, I agree too

Don't be so negative, be patient instead.
Some people only know how to be negative
Rich
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7/29/2004  5:17 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

[quote]

Some people only know how to be negative

The Knicks haven't won a championships since 1973, and have no chance to win one in the foreseeable future.

It's not unreasonable to beleive that being negative is merely facing reality.
franco12
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7/29/2004  9:09 AM
you know the bulls are just trying to basically dump all their bad deals on us and take nothing back.

If they want the relief, I say offer to include our ending & better contracts and ask for 2 unprotected first round draft picks.

Teams just think they can exploit the knicks to no end- we don't need crawford that bad...
Bonn1997
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7/29/2004  9:31 AM
Posted by franco12:

you know the bulls are just trying to basically dump all their bad deals on us and take nothing back.
If we give up Shandon, we're giving them a worse contract than any contract we're taking
raven
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7/29/2004  9:37 AM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:

[quote]

Some people only know how to be negative

The Knicks haven't won a championships since 1973, and have no chance to win one in the foreseeable future.

It's not unreasonable to beleive that being negative is merely facing reality.

We've to the finals twice over the past 10 yrs and a regular playoff contender. We're getting out of the grave. It could come quicker than expected.
Bonn1997
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7/29/2004  9:39 AM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:

[quote]

Some people only know how to be negative

The Knicks haven't won a championships since 1973, and have no chance to win one in the foreseeable future.

It's not unreasonable to beleive that being negative is merely facing reality.

What does that have to with being impatient about getting Jamal Crawford? Are you certain that Jamal Crawford won't be a Knick? Are you certain that if he is a Knick, it is impossible that he would be part of a championship team? If you're not certain, then why not wait to see what happens? If we do get him, why not be happy that we'd have some very talented young players with him, Marbury, Sweetney, and maybe Ariza? Are you certain that that team would be no closer to winning a championship than the 12 man roster Layden gave Isiah?
the big and final sticking point in Crawford deal

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