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Knickerblogger Article: Phil Jackson destroyed the stability he created with the Knicks
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CrushAlot
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3/17/2016  6:57 PM
Its on the home page but here it is if you missed it.
The attraction of Phil Jackson running the New York Knicks was he would bring a sensibility to the organization that often didn’t exist.

Whether you agreed or disagreed with the moves Jackson made through the pre-firing Derek Fisher portion of his tenure, his presence became easier to accept because of a level of stability.

The team owned by James Dolan was going along in a rational manner.

They didn’t return much value for Tyson Chandler, Iman Shumpert and J.R. Smith, but you could see a level of logic behind both trades. Despite it taking longer than it should have – Carmelo Anthony did eventually shut it down for the season due to a knee injury. The dead weight on the team was sent away with Amar’e Stoudemire and Andrea Bargnani being bought out.

First-year head coach Derek Fisher spent about half the season experimenting with a more pick and roll based offense rather than the triangle and giving different players an opportunity to prove themselves.

Yea, they screwed up winning a couple games at the end of the season, but it’s not fair to expect players to not go out and try. It was just unfortunate results.

Drafting Kristaps Porzingis and Jerian Grant brought along hope of Jackson being more open to adjusting New York’s playing style due to their skills sets in a good start to his second full offseason on the job.

Free agency should have been the first sign of slight concern when it came to Jackson’s view of what he wanted the team to be. He went after too many bigs and not enough attention to players who could break down a defense off the dribble.

Nothing Jackson did was overly harmful, but he gave insight into what he was looking for with how he constructed the roster. Individually, none of the contracts he gave out were bad, yet in totality they didn’t make all that much sense.

All that said, it wasn’t the end of the world. Rebuilding the Knicks roster from the tear down was more than a one-offseason process. Jackson needed to be given more time to flesh out what he was trying to accomplish.

The season started and the Knicks overachieved. Fisher implemented a smarter defensive scheme that tried to force teams into mid-range shots and the offense was a decent balance of using triangle principles and modern concepts. It wasn’t perfect, but it was something you could live with.

Fisher worked on developing Porzingis and Grant, maximized Thomas’ versatility on the defensive end, had Anthony playing brilliant all-around basketball and managed minutes in a decent fashion.

Once they hit 22-22, one of the healthiest teams in the league at that point in the season, started getting banged up. The nine-man rotation Fisher settled on could no longer be used and the Knicks lack of quality depth shined through. They played a bunch of close games and battled hard, but couldn’t close anything out.

Thinking back on it, in Fisher’s last games it was almost like he was trying to prove a point. In first halves he Knicks would run mainly triangle based offensive sets leading to them falling behind. In second halves they’d run a ton of spread PnR storming back into the game.

This pattern happened quite frequently.

Was it Fisher trying to prove a point to Jackson?

If he was should have Fisher tried to communicate better with his boss instead of being standoffish? Yep.

Should have Jackson been smart enough to see what was happening and not be stubborn about the type of offense that was being implemented? Yep.

The basketball reasons to fire Fisher didn’t make much sense. If it was other dealings that were more involved with off the court shenanigans so be it. Whatever the case, when Jackson made the decision to fire Fisher he tore down what he had worked so hard to build up – an appearance of stability.

Teams that are stable don’t fire coaches less than two years into a job with a group that was on track to be one of the most improved in the NBA.

Jackson made his buddy Kurt Rambis interim head coach and ever since they’ve gone back to their old cluster**** ways.

Rambis trying to “win now” (poorly by the way, he’s not even good at that) has led to potential bad consequences. Melo is getting overplayed, they’ve swung towards increased base triangle action, the protect the paint screw threes defense is back, Sasha Vujacic’s role has increased while Grant’s has decreased and Porzingis is being used incorrectly.

The scary part of all of this is Rambis and Jackson openly discuss how improved the communication between the two of them is compared to Fisher and Jackson.

Simply put………that’s terrifying.

Even while only winning 17 games what made Jackson’s first year a success was an understanding of where the team was and what needed to be accomplished.

The same hasn’t happened this season – it feels like Jackson has become short sighted.

Outside of unrealistic trade rumors involving Jeff Teague – there’s been no attempt to address their slow, plodding, lack of dribble penetration backcourt.

Lower level guards such as Mario Chalmers, D.J. Augustin, Shelvin Mack and Ish Smith were all traded during the regular season. Maybe getting one of them wasn’t realistic, but a move of that elk could have been made.

They’ve had two players come on 10-day contracts in Thanasis Antetokounmpo and Jimmer Fredette and neither was given a chance to contribute in a meaningful way.

And the Fredette circus should have never been at MSG in the first place.

Jackson been content allowing Lou Amundson, Cleanthony Early and Vujacic eat up roster spots and not contribute in a positive way.

Jackson’s managing of the Knicks roster this season has lacked ingenuity and creativity.

Once the playoffs became unrealistic a smartly run team would have preserved Melo, experimented with an offense revolving around Porzingis and Grant’s skills, and used two or three roster spots to try to find cheap talent to add to the team gong forward.

The reason to be worried about Jackson has nothing to do with what his record is since being in charge of the Knicks. It’s quite the opposite – the bad record shows he understood what needed to be done in his first full year on the job. The roster is in a healthier place than where it was when Jackson took it over.

The question is with the decision-making and vision Jackson has demonstrated this season can he be trusted to be in charge of the Knicks going forward?

If Jackson isn’t able to set aside his ego in regards to the next coach and how the Knicks on court product should be shaped – what needs to happen is so painful I don’t have the will to even spell it out.


http://knickerblogger.net/phil-jackson-destroyed-the-stability-he-created-with-knicks/
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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nixluva
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3/17/2016  7:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/17/2016  8:18 PM
It was a good article but I think no permanent damage has been done. If Phil decides to hire a coach like Thibs then all of the stuff that went on this year is rendered moot. This isn't even close to the worst dysfunction we've seen with this franchise. This is mild. It remains to be seen just what Phil is gonna do about the coach and what he can get done in Free Agency this summer. Just by virtue of replacing the dead weight on this roster with younger and more talented players a lot of improvement can be made even if he does keep Rambis. The coach almost doesn't matter if you can't improve the talent on this roster. If Phil can upgrade the roster and the coach that's a big win this summer. We'll see.

Phil's moves become more important with each offseason. What Phil does with his cap space this summer is going to be huge for this franchise. Last summer he was filling huge gaps in the roster and setting a base of talent to work from. This summer his moves have to push this team into a winning ball club with potential to contend in the coming years. Starts obviously with an NBA quality starting backcourt!!!

What is of note is that Phil is still looking at young players. The Signing of Wroten is more telling than some are acknowledging. He went with another young prospect. He's got more young players in the D League and Willy possibly coming from overseas. Melo may want an older vet but Phil may not go in that direction with so much of his club being younger.


NO. NAME POS AGE HT WT COLLEGE 2015-2016 SALARY
6 Kristaps Porzingis PF 20 7-3 240 $4,131,720
-- Guillermo Hernangómez PF 21 6-10 255
-- Tony Wroten SG 22 6-6 205 Washington $2,179,353
13 Jerian Grant PG 23 6-4 195 Notre Dame $1,572,360
11 Cleanthony Early SF 24 6-8 210 Wichita State $845,059
2 Langston Galloway SG 24 6-2 200 Saint Joseph's $845,059
23 Derrick Williams PF 24 6-8 240 Arizona $4,000,000
9 Kyle O'Quinn PF 25 6-10 250 Norfolk State $3,750,000
1 Kevin Seraphin C 26 6-10 278 $2,814,000
8 Robin Lopez C 27 7-0 255 Stanford $12,650,000
42 Lance Thomas SF 27 6-8 235 Duke $1,636,842

Another point on this notion of stability. How can you make a claim for stability that starts with a rebuiild after a 17 win season and only lasts for a little more than half a season? There never really was total stability. There was the chance for stability but it's not like there was a long period of solid performance that was broken up. Reaching .500 for a brief time and then falling off a cliff isn't much stability.

yellowboy90
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3/17/2016  8:51 PM
The moral of the story is triangle or bust even more. Who cares if I hire a coach without experience of any kind, I'll fire him when it gets tough because him and his creed want to run PnRs. He is not listening to my bro from another Mom who says play Sasha he work's hard in every practice. So what if he bricks more shots than Ben Simmons in a 3pt contest he's the machine.
nyknickzingis
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3/17/2016  9:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/17/2016  9:19 PM
Phil Jackson didn't go after guards like that because none of them were available last summer. All the top talent was in the front court mode. Aldridge. DeAndre. Marc Gasol, even. Most of the talent was big man heavy.

It beats me why so many think that Phil should blow all NY's free agency wad on players that will not put NY on a championship level. They want Phil to do exactly what every other GM in the last 2 decades has. Overpay for name power and not actual value on the court.

Sure Calderon and Afflalo (And Grant, Gallo, Sasha) aren't enough. How much has Phil really invested in them? 18 million is left owed to those players. Most of them won't even be here in 1 year. The free agency money will allow Phil to address the backcourt needs. In the meantime he has added major talent in the front court with Porzingis and Lopez.

Look around the league, rare that teams can completely re-build a roster within 1 year. And think about where the Knicks would have drafted had they not been as bad as they were last season. Forget about Porzingis if you're drafting 10th, 12th or somewhere like that.

The only thing I want Phil to do is realize that Rambis is not the man for the job. Rambis is a good assistant. He needs to hire Luke Walton, or give other proven NBA coaches a look. Or if the itch really is still there. come back and coach 2 years. Certainly would shut people up, in regards to those who think he isn't worth the contract Dolan gave him.

CrushAlot
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3/17/2016  9:30 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Phil Jackson didn't go after guards like that because none of them were available last summer. All the top talent was in the front court mode. Aldridge. DeAndre. Marc Gasol, even. Most of the talent was big man heavy.

It beats me why so many think that Phil should blow all NY's free agency wad on players that will not put NY on a championship level. They want Phil to do exactly what every other GM in the last 2 decades has. Overpay for name power and not actual value on the court.

Sure Calderon and Afflalo (And Grant, Gallo, Sasha) aren't enough. How much has Phil really invested in them? 18 million is left owed to those players. Most of them won't even be here in 1 year. The free agency money will allow Phil to address the backcourt needs. In the meantime he has added major talent in the front court with Porzingis and Lopez.

Look around the league, rare that teams can completely re-build a roster within 1 year. And think about where the Knicks would have drafted had they not been as bad as they were last season. Forget about Porzingis if you're drafting 10th, 12th or somewhere like that.

The only thing I want Phil to do is realize that Rambis is not the man for the job. Rambis is a good assistant. He needs to hire Luke Walton, or give other proven NBA coaches a look. Or if the itch really is still there. come back and coach 2 years. Certainly would shut people up, in regards to those who think he isn't worth the contract Dolan gave him.

I think just signing Shved over Seraphin would help address a huge weakness in the roster. I know the argument used for the Knicks signing three centers was that KP wasn't ready. But the Knicks already had Lou. I don't think the author was suggesting a big time point guard signing because as you said those guys weren't available. But the back court additions were Afflalo, Sasha and Jerian. That was with a returning back court of Gallo and Jose. I agree about Rambis.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nyknickzingis
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3/17/2016  9:33 PM
Shved didn't get a NBA job. Think about that. While yes he'd be better roster balance wise, I wonder if he starts over Calderon and more importantly how many wins does he really add? Can't act like a top 10 point guard in the league was passed up. A fringe NBA player was passed up for a backup Center.
CrushAlot
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3/17/2016  9:46 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Shved didn't get a NBA job. Think about that. While yes he'd be better roster balance wise, I wonder if he starts over Calderon and more importantly how many wins does he really add? Can't act like a top 10 point guard in the league was passed up. A fringe NBA player was passed up for a backup Center.

He turned down the knicks and signed for more money to play in Russia. You can call him a fringe player but he got paid and he would be an upgrade to the current back court and fill more of a role than Seraphin. 2.8 mil could have been better spent. Obviously it is hindsight but that backcourt was relying on Grant adapting to the nba a lot faster than he has. Shved looked like a good fit for the Knicks. It is easy to label a guy a fringe player but if they fit a teams needs and perform they usually are signed.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
DrAlphaeus
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3/17/2016  10:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/17/2016  10:05 PM

nyknickzingis wrote:Shved didn't get a NBA job. Think about that. While yes he'd be better roster balance wise, I wonder if he starts over Calderon and more importantly how many wins does he really add? Can't act like a top 10 point guard in the league was passed up. A fringe NBA player was passed up for a backup Center.


You call him fringe but we are playing a fringe system that apparently needs special snowflakes to make it work. Shved is the highest paid basketball player outside of the NBA at $10.2 million over three years. There are like 150-200 NBA players who make more than that.

It's not like I have homie's jersey on the wall, but let's not pretend he was just some scrub.

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
yellowboy90
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3/17/2016  10:07 PM
Cory Joseph was apparently out there for the taking.
callmened
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3/17/2016  10:12 PM
im a Shved fan but i can admit that hes no steph curry or westbrook. he wouldve probably been the best point guard on the team but thats not saying much.

but lets not act like the knicks CHOSE not to keep him. it was HE who decided to play in russia. I believe we offered him 1.3 mill and they offered him 10 mill (rubels?!?!) my point is it will always come down to money to get good players. will we have enough money to outbid other teams that have as much or even more (i counted 17 teams - from Martin's cap space list)?

then you have to look at another factor. so lets say, we DO have comparable money to play for XYZ free agent. now you must discuss OTHER factors. i'll ignore the NYC media and tough fans, the pressure, the attention, the owner. What about this old school triangle offense? do free agents want to play in that system?

for example, lets take two different types of examples: knicks vs sixers. our heros will have about 21 mill in cap space however the sixers will have at least 70 mill. the sixers with GM Colangelo are reported to be big players in free agency this summer. they most likely will have two lottery picks surrounded by other young talent. can the knicks compete with the sixers for getting a PG like a jennings. we might say hes worth 10-13mill in the new cap. but they can offer dude 20 mill. there he could he would be their leader and play in a fun up tempo system

but wait, what if you say 'ned no free agent will want to go to that mess in philly'. ok fine, so lets fid a team with a similar cap space situation: say...the Houston Rockets. You get to play in a tax free state, with MVP talent J. Harden with a team that was two yrs removed from a conf finals.

im been accused of my negative vibe but i think im just being realistic. i simply dont think we can compete for significant free agents in the few yrs but i dont think its the end of the world at all. in fact i think we should use the next two yrs to develop KP and save money. save money for 2018 when the cap flattens out - and hopelfully the knicks can buy a free agent to join KP who should be in his prime. im willing to be patient thats all

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
nixluva
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3/17/2016  10:27 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Shved didn't get a NBA job. Think about that. While yes he'd be better roster balance wise, I wonder if he starts over Calderon and more importantly how many wins does he really add? Can't act like a top 10 point guard in the league was passed up. A fringe NBA player was passed up for a backup Center.

He turned down the knicks and signed for more money to play in Russia. You can call him a fringe player but he got paid and he would be an upgrade to the current back court and fill more of a role than Seraphin. 2.8 mil could have been better spent. Obviously it is hindsight but that backcourt was relying on Grant adapting to the nba a lot faster than he has. Shved looked like a good fit for the Knicks. It is easy to label a guy a fringe player but if they fit a teams needs and perform they usually are signed.

The biggest mistake was not re-signing Shved but at the time it didn't seem like it would have THIS kind of impact. I think Phil did feel Jerian could develop faster than he did. Just remember back to Summer League and Jerian looked like he had a shot to push Jose. He was aggressive and confident. Then early on he and Gallo led the bench mob to some nice performances and people were calling for him to start over Jose. But the league dropped back off Jerian and he lost his confidence as did Gallo when his shot deserted him.

In the end it's not the end of the world. This team was always going to need a better answer at SG than AA. The starting backcourt and depth has to be improved. Hopefully Phil can make a dent this summer but the process of building a title contender will take more than one more summer. There will need to be more talent added and young players developed.

DrAlphaeus
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3/17/2016  10:54 PM
callmened wrote:im a Shved fan but i can admit that hes no steph curry or westbrook. he wouldve probably been the best point guard on the team but thats not saying much.

but lets not act like the knicks CHOSE not to keep him. it was HE who decided to play in russia. I believe we offered him 1.3 mill and they offered him 10 mill (rubels?!?!) my point is it will always come down to money to get good players. will we have enough money to outbid other teams that have as much or even more (i counted 17 teams - from Martin's cap space list)?

then you have to look at another factor. so lets say, we DO have comparable money to play for XYZ free agent. now you must discuss OTHER factors. i'll ignore the NYC media and tough fans, the pressure, the attention, the owner. What about this old school triangle offense? do free agents want to play in that system?

for example, lets take two different types of examples: knicks vs sixers. our heros will have about 21 mill in cap space however the sixers will have at least 70 mill. the sixers with GM Colangelo are reported to be big players in free agency this summer. they most likely will have two lottery picks surrounded by other young talent. can the knicks compete with the sixers for getting a PG like a jennings. we might say hes worth 10-13mill in the new cap. but they can offer dude 20 mill. there he could he would be their leader and play in a fun up tempo system

but wait, what if you say 'ned no free agent will want to go to that mess in philly'. ok fine, so lets fid a team with a similar cap space situation: say...the Houston Rockets. You get to play in a tax free state, with MVP talent J. Harden with a team that was two yrs removed from a conf finals.

im been accused of my negative vibe but i think im just being realistic. i simply dont think we can compete for significant free agents in the few yrs but i dont think its the end of the world at all. in fact i think we should use the next two yrs to develop KP and save money. save money for 2018 when the cap flattens out - and hopelfully the knicks can buy a free agent to join KP who should be in his prime. im willing to be patient thats all

True about the choice ultimately being Shved's: at the end of the day, you offer a 26-year old Russian the highest salary in the Euroleague to come home and play at $10.2 over 3 years — that's a great offer for him. He was looking for the 1-year $2.8m exception, they wouldn't budge, and the Knicks gave that to Seraphin.

Hindsight is 20/20 but facts are we lowballed a 26-year 6'6" guard who was the best point guard we had, and now we got 6'7" 34-year old Sasha starting because he's the best point guard we got... the lowball offer/lousy second choice knack it seems like Phil might have these days.

I do feel lame talking this much about Shved... but we can't afford to make unforced errors. I think you have a fair view on the state of things though.

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
nixluva
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3/17/2016  11:02 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:Never hire an old guy living in the past to take on the task of guiding you through the future!!

You mean like Popovich?

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3/17/2016  11:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/17/2016  11:08 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Its on the home page but here it is if you missed it.


If Jackson isn’t able to set aside his ego in regards to the next coach and how the Knicks on court product should be shaped – what needs to happen is so painful I don’t have the will to even spell it out.

http://knickerblogger.net/phil-jackson-destroyed-the-stability-he-created-with-knicks/

Never hire an old guy living in the past to take on the task of guiding you through the future! Specially one with a huge ego.

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DrAlphaeus
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3/17/2016  11:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/17/2016  11:36 PM
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:Never hire an old guy living in the past to take on the task of guiding you through the future!!

You mean like Popovich?

Well Pop is a couple years younger than Phil and has been some manner of gm/vp/pres in SA since the 1990s. The elderly shots are cheap and I hope Phil can eventually debunk them.

Donnie Walsh was an old guy, and for all of the smack folks gave him about a wheelchair — like if he was looking a little more spry LeBron would have suddenly found NYC sexier than South Beach — he put in work to undo the ignoble legacy of He Who Shall Not Be Named.

No Melo without Amare. No Amare without Donnie cleaning house. "What if" the team had the foresight to resist the threat of the lockout which did end up happening? (EDIT: and Donnie probably didn't even want to do the Melo trade! But it wouldn't have been possible if Walsh hadn't cleaned up after Layden and HWSNBN)

The best teams we've had over the last decade were possible because of an old guy given the task to guide us to the future!

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
mreinman
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3/17/2016  11:51 PM
splendid and dead on article. Been saying this sh1t for how long? Geeeeez. We are back to clogging the paint and letting threes rain and sh1t ... puhhhhrfukked.

It was also obvious that Fisher was trying to go more pnr and phil said not on my fukking triangle watch.

pretty clear no matter how many times nixluva says "wroten blah blah" that phil has no idea wtf he is doing and is obviously no GM and certainly not a GM with an eye for todays game.

This team is not as bad as he is making them. Clap clap clap. Legacy = tainted.

Can he fix this? Sure. Allow steve mills to run the show (geeeeeeeez how sad is that), hire a top non triangle-putz coach, and stick to instagram.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
EnySpree
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3/18/2016  3:51 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:Cory Joseph was apparently out there for the taking.

It's not slavery. You can't force a player to sign with you. Corey Joseph wanted to be in Toronto. He's Canadian. That's as far as that goes.

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EnySpree
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3/18/2016  4:09 AM
mreinman wrote:splendid and dead on article. Been saying this sh1t for how long? Geeeeez. We are back to clogging the paint and letting threes rain and sh1t ... puhhhhrfukked.

It was also obvious that Fisher was trying to go more pnr and phil said not on my fukking triangle watch.

pretty clear no matter how many times nixluva says "wroten blah blah" that phil has no idea wtf he is doing and is obviously no GM and certainly not a GM with an eye for todays game.

This team is not as bad as he is making them. Clap clap clap. Legacy = tainted.

Can he fix this? Sure. Allow steve mills to run the show (geeeeeeeez how sad is that), hire a top non triangle-putz coach, and stick to instagram.

This entire post is the reason I hate all "knicks" fans nowadays.

Fisher was not trying to add pick and roll to the triangle. It's already in the triangle. Fishers offense doesn't look any different than what we are doing now. Guys just want to make that point stock just to further slander the "triangle". Truth is you don't even know what an nba offense is. "More modern offense" is the new catch phrase now that golden state is on top. How do you use that to fuel the argument that 2 years as a knicks GM tarnished a 20 year domination of the nba winning 11 championships. It's garbage.

the only argument you can make is Phil can't get talent here. That's not entirely his fault. Players don't want to come here. They would rather sign with other teams and come off the bench than come here and start. That's not because of the triangle. Is because of the media, ignorant fans and piss poor ownership. Who wants to deal with that stufff on purpose when you can go to basically any other team and won with less of a headache?

Anyway this is by far the best shape we have been in as a franchise since Ewing was drafted or the summer we signed Allan Houston. The thing is in those eras, players wantedito play on the Knicks. Guys wanted to sign here. We have to build that back up again. I think Phil is doing a great job cleaning up. I just think it's disgusting to have to argue that after all we've been through. Let fans tell it and you would think this is the worst time to ever be a knicks fan. We've definitely been through worse. We're actually on the come up. Yet here we are arguing about it

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3/18/2016  7:29 AM
Phil gets vilified for thinking long term, and short term for wanting to win games.
BigRedDog
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3/18/2016  7:49 AM
Fisher was developing Grant? Really??? When??? During the dnps???
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
Knickerblogger Article: Phil Jackson destroyed the stability he created with the Knicks

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