JrZyHuStLa wrote:Welcome back, Tony Douglas.

Toney Douglas was 6'2" with nowhere near the level of athleticism. Wroten is 6'6". Douglas could shoot better, but that's about it. Douglas had the same deer in headlights look Grant seems to have.

martin wrote:

callmened wrote:with limited flexibility, the knicks have to think outside the box or take gambles on young players. That includes players like wroten (who im afriad might be damaged goods). Ive been following this kid since he was a jr in HS. he used to be a an even better football player until he tore his ACL (yes the same ACL) and concentrated on basketball. thats why he wasnt high in all the recruiting trails. and now he suffered the same ACL injury last yr. theres no doubt he has physical talent - well at least he did. but this is a gamble - low risk gamble - cuz his career might even be over. who knows but i wouldnt get hopes up just yet. i think it was a smart move to obtain him, rehab him and teach him the triangle (say what you want if you can learn the triangle then youre smarter off for it).

with that said, keep looking into these low risk options: Ray McCallum. Like Nixluva and finestrg - im a big fan of his

wow didn't know that, same ACL on same knee? Yikes

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/high-school/garfields-tony-wroten-could-miss-7-to-9-months-with-torn-acl/

Garfield High basketball standout Tony Wroten Jr., who injured his right knee in the Bulldogs’ football season-opener, will not play football again this season and will likely miss the upcoming basketball season.

Wroten, a 6-foot-5 junior who is rated among the top five prep basketball players in his class nationally and the No. 2 point guard by ESPN.com, told football coach Anthony Allen he tore his ACL and is considering surgery. If Wroten has surgery, the usual recovery is 7 to 9 months, which wouldn’t allow him to return to the basketball team this season.

Wroten led the Bulldogs to the Class 4A state championship game last season.

“The last time I heard from him, which was [Friday], I think he’s supposed to have surgery next Friday and then go from there,” Allen said Saturday.

Messages to Wroten’s father Tony Wroten Sr. and Garfield High boys basketball coach Ed Haskins were not immediately returned.

Allen said Wroten Jr. is surprisingly upbeat despite the injury. He has attended the past two Garfield football games and doesn’t appear to be hurt, according to Allen.

“We talked several times during the course of the day and he was in very high spirits,” Allen said. “We were sort of teasing each other and I said I wish he would get some crutches or something. He’s in remarkable spirits.”

Before this year, Wroten hadn’t played football since seventh grade. He played receiver and free safety and suffered the injury midway through the fourth quarter of a 12-6 victory over Franklin when he caught a pass, reversed field and was hit in the knee.

The injury was originally diagnosed as a bruise and Wroten has visited with a few doctors in the past two weeks.

“When he told me what it was, I was shocked,” Allen said. “He was walking around and you just don’t think it’s that serious. It was quite shocking.”

Wroten, arguably the best basketball player in the state, was second-guessed when he decided to play football, but his heart was set on playing.

“We had this discussion last year and then this year he came to me and said, ‘Coach I’m going to play football,’ ” Allen said. “Once the kid makes make up his own mind about something like that, then you just deal with it. You wonder [about injury], but you just don’t think something like that can happen.

“It’s just sad because now it gives people who think he shouldn’t have played something to point at, but in reality this could have happened at any time.”

WaltLongmire wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:I want you guys to imagine for a second Wroten and Grant playing in the backcourt together. Both are big guards; both are uber athletic; both have the ability to play good defense and get in passing lanes; both can break down a defense and get in the paint; both would push the pace leading to more fast break points and easier buckets. The only negative is that they're not good shooters yet or know the triangle well. The good news is shooting can be improved with mechanics and work. They have the potential to both become decent shooters. I like the prospects of both being really young developing in our system.

then I imagine the whole defense packing the paint and daring those two to take long shots

Grants problem is nobody respects his jumper and nobody is afraid of his jumping beating you. Wroten will see the same if he cant keep people honest.

Yes...but shooting can be improved with working on proper mechanics in practice and with lots of reps, coupled with confidence. Many bad shooters have become decent, respectable shooters in the NBA. What you can't teach or get better at is: A) athleticism B) Size C) breakdown ability against defenses attacking the rim D) lateral quickness to defend and long wingspan to play passing lanes. Either you have this or you don't. And it's something we currently DO NOT have, and it kills us. It's all about development.

Wroten has had a good deal of time to perfect his jumper since he shot 16% from the college distance 3.

Not sure his stroke and release will ever allow him to be a versatile shooter, and so far the stats back this up. From another site:

Frank
March 7, 2016 at 1:23 pm

His shot distribution from last year is really amazing. He had 434 FGA, 245 of which were in the restricted area. Then he shot 126 3 pointers, leaving just 40 paint/non-RA shots and SEVEN mid-range jumpers. 7 out of 434 shots were midrange shots. that’s astounding, and so not triangular.

Some other not so good stats:

Mike Kurylo
March 7, 2016 at 1:24 pm

Career TS%: .488
Usage%: 28.3
3p%: .231
3p/36: 4.2

Not so good finishing with his off hand, either- lots of awkward finishes when he drives right.

I'm just thinking that guys have to calm down a bit over this guy...but I don't expects folks around here will.

Good points. Seems like a low risk signing but also seems very clear he still needs to develop. Now we get to see whether he's going to put in whatever needs to go in to develop his game, or whether he thinks he has it all figured out already and won't work. Bruce Bowen used to have a fugly shot, but found a way to contribute on offense. What will Wroten's identity be?

WaltLongmire wrote:Wroten has had a good deal of time to perfect his jumper since he shot 16% from the college distance 3.

Not sure his stroke and release will ever allow him to be a versatile shooter, and so far the stats back this up. From another site:

Frank
March 7, 2016 at 1:23 pm

His shot distribution from last year is really amazing. He had 434 FGA, 245 of which were in the restricted area. Then he shot 126 3 pointers, leaving just 40 paint/non-RA shots and SEVEN mid-range jumpers. 7 out of 434 shots were midrange shots. that’s astounding, and so not triangular.

Some other not so good stats:

Mike Kurylo
March 7, 2016 at 1:24 pm

Career TS%: .488
Usage%: 28.3
3p%: .231
3p/36: 4.2

Not so good finishing with his off hand, either- lots of awkward finishes when he drives right.

I'm just thinking that guys have to calm down a bit over this guy...but I don't expects folks around here will.

The Knicks are dead last in the league in drives to the basket - 15 drives per game. Every other team is over 20 drives per game. Why is it a bad thing again to get a guy who is really good at that? And his last full season he shot 26% from 3pt range - which is at least an improvement.

He also was forced to play heavy minutes on an absolutely terrible team at age 20 and 21. My guess is that that would give you some bad habits and lead to turnovers and bad shots.

I think looking at stats in a vacuum doesn't always tell you the full story. Turnovers can be limited and helped by playing with better teammates. And shooting can always be improved with practice and age and mechanical adjustments.

Simple statistic: career FT% is 65%.

OMG

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:I want you guys to imagine for a second Wroten and Grant playing in the backcourt together. Both are big guards; both are uber athletic; both have the ability to play good defense and get in passing lanes; both can break down a defense and get in the paint; both would push the pace leading to more fast break points and easier buckets. The only negative is that they're not good shooters yet or know the triangle well. The good news is shooting can be improved with mechanics and work. They have the potential to both become decent shooters. I like the prospects of both being really young developing in our system.

then I imagine the whole defense packing the paint and daring those two to take long shots

Grants problem is nobody respects his jumper and nobody is afraid of his jumping beating you. Wroten will see the same if he cant keep people honest.

Yes...but shooting can be improved with working on proper mechanics in practice and with lots of reps, coupled with confidence. Many bad shooters have become decent, respectable shooters in the NBA. What you can't teach or get better at is: A) athleticism B) Size C) breakdown ability against defenses attacking the rim D) lateral quickness to defend and long wingspan to play passing lanes. Either you have this or you don't. And it's something we currently DO NOT have, and it kills us. It's all about development.

Hoping he is better than Grant in composure. Grant has the quickness but gets hurt by it as he seems to run himself into corners. Hoping Wroten has a bit more ability as well as NBA composure. Maybe a more athletic Toure Murry? And outside shooting, specially with Rolo, Melo and KP flooding the middle, will be the key for him.

HofstraBBall wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:I want you guys to imagine for a second Wroten and Grant playing in the backcourt together. Both are big guards; both are uber athletic; both have the ability to play good defense and get in passing lanes; both can break down a defense and get in the paint; both would push the pace leading to more fast break points and easier buckets. The only negative is that they're not good shooters yet or know the triangle well. The good news is shooting can be improved with mechanics and work. They have the potential to both become decent shooters. I like the prospects of both being really young developing in our system.

then I imagine the whole defense packing the paint and daring those two to take long shots

Grants problem is nobody respects his jumper and nobody is afraid of his jumping beating you. Wroten will see the same if he cant keep people honest.

Yes...but shooting can be improved with working on proper mechanics in practice and with lots of reps, coupled with confidence. Many bad shooters have become decent, respectable shooters in the NBA. What you can't teach or get better at is: A) athleticism B) Size C) breakdown ability against defenses attacking the rim D) lateral quickness to defend and long wingspan to play passing lanes. Either you have this or you don't. And it's something we currently DO NOT have, and it kills us. It's all about development.

Hoping he is better than Grant in composure. Grant has the quickness but gets hurt by it as he seems to run himself into corners. Hoping Wroten has a bit more ability as well as NBA composure. Maybe a more athletic Toure Murry. Outside shooting, specially with Rolo, Melo and KP flooding the middle, will be the key for him.

Season	Age Tm  Pos  G  GS  MP   FG  FGA  FG%  3P  3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  eFG%  FT  FTA  FT%  ORB  DRB  TRB  AST  STL  BLK  TOV PF  PTS
2012-13	19  MEM	SG   35 0   7.8  0.9 2.5  .384 0.1 0.5  .250 0.8 2.0  .414 .407  0.6 0.8  .724 0.4  0.4  0.8  1.2  0.2  0.1  0.8 1.0 2.6
2013-14	20  PHI	PG   72	16  24.5 4.8 11.2 .427 0.6 2.6	.213 4.2 8.6  .492 .452  2.9 4.5  .641 1.0  2.2  3.2  3.0  1.1  0.2  2.8 2.1 13.0
2014-15	21  PHI	PG   30	15  29.8 5.8 14.5 .403 1.2 4.7	.261 4.6 9.7  .473 .446  4.0 6.0  .667 0.7  2.1  2.9  5.2  1.6	0.3  3.8 2.4 16.9

I didn't include the 8 games he played this year since it's just too small a sample and he was just coming back off the ACL. Hopefully a full summer of conditioning and skills work will help him going into next year.

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

callmened wrote:with limited flexibility, the knicks have to think outside the box or take gambles on young players. That includes players like wroten (who im afriad might be damaged goods). Ive been following this kid since he was a jr in HS. he used to be a an even better football player until he tore his ACL (yes the same ACL) and concentrated on basketball. thats why he wasnt high in all the recruiting trails. and now he suffered the same ACL injury last yr. theres no doubt he has physical talent - well at least he did. but this is a gamble - low risk gamble - cuz his career might even be over. who knows but i wouldnt get hopes up just yet. i think it was a smart move to obtain him, rehab him and teach him the triangle (say what you want if you can learn the triangle then youre smarter off for it).

with that said, keep looking into these low risk options: Ray McCallum. Like Nixluva and finestrg - im a big fan of his

wow didn't know that, same ACL on same knee? Yikes

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/high-school/garfields-tony-wroten-could-miss-7-to-9-months-with-torn-acl/

Garfield High basketball standout Tony Wroten Jr., who injured his right knee in the Bulldogs’ football season-opener, will not play football again this season and will likely miss the upcoming basketball season.

Wroten, a 6-foot-5 junior who is rated among the top five prep basketball players in his class nationally and the No. 2 point guard by ESPN.com, told football coach Anthony Allen he tore his ACL and is considering surgery. If Wroten has surgery, the usual recovery is 7 to 9 months, which wouldn’t allow him to return to the basketball team this season.

Wroten led the Bulldogs to the Class 4A state championship game last season.

“The last time I heard from him, which was [Friday], I think he’s supposed to have surgery next Friday and then go from there,” Allen said Saturday.

Messages to Wroten’s father Tony Wroten Sr. and Garfield High boys basketball coach Ed Haskins were not immediately returned.

Allen said Wroten Jr. is surprisingly upbeat despite the injury. He has attended the past two Garfield football games and doesn’t appear to be hurt, according to Allen.

“We talked several times during the course of the day and he was in very high spirits,” Allen said. “We were sort of teasing each other and I said I wish he would get some crutches or something. He’s in remarkable spirits.”

Before this year, Wroten hadn’t played football since seventh grade. He played receiver and free safety and suffered the injury midway through the fourth quarter of a 12-6 victory over Franklin when he caught a pass, reversed field and was hit in the knee.

The injury was originally diagnosed as a bruise and Wroten has visited with a few doctors in the past two weeks.

“When he told me what it was, I was shocked,” Allen said. “He was walking around and you just don’t think it’s that serious. It was quite shocking.”

Wroten, arguably the best basketball player in the state, was second-guessed when he decided to play football, but his heart was set on playing.

“We had this discussion last year and then this year he came to me and said, ‘Coach I’m going to play football,’ ” Allen said. “Once the kid makes make up his own mind about something like that, then you just deal with it. You wonder [about injury], but you just don’t think something like that can happen.

“It’s just sad because now it gives people who think he shouldn’t have played something to point at, but in reality this could have happened at any time.”

thank you for pulling up that article. i vaguely remembered that when he was in HS. So he originally tore his RIGHT ACL as a jr in HS. and then last yr he had a partial tear on the same RIGHT ACL. as a left, the right leg is the leg you jump off from. the one you get your explosion from. normally, ACL or other major injuries in players under 24, im not too concerned since theyre young enough to recover. however TWO surgeries to the SAME knee is def a red flag. now i can see why the sixers cut him and no one else wanted him. now i can see why he didnt want to try the DLeague. Basically he needs rehab and it looks like hell get that with the knicks