yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:His attitude is great and I hope it works out for him. I think it is a low level risk but for him to have 25 pages is kind of silly. The likely hood of him improving his shooting is low based on history. I could see if he showed promise at the line but he doesn't even shoot over 70% for his career. That is very telling to me. His whole career has been a player who doesn't capitalize on the gifts he has. He can drive but isn't the best finisher. He can create contact and get to the line but doesn't make his free throws. He can break down the defense and create for others but those others also include the opposing team because he turns the ball over at a high rate. Finallly, he is a physical specimen but has suffered severe injuries to his knees.

I'll root for him but updating this thread just seems like a waste but then again these is a fanatics message board.

The way I look at Wroten is a little bit like DWILL. DWILL had his doubters and justifiably so. He never had been able to put it together even tho you could see the immense talent. There were doubts that DWILL could function in a structured offense. It seems tho that the longer he played in the system he started to figure things out. DWILL still has upside IMO.

Wroten has a similar chance to find a niche in this system. He's got MAJOR holes in his game but there's a chance for Wroten to focus on his flaws and make improvement. I think the Structure of the Triangle could be good for him. It's certainly going to be interesting to watch and see how he does. The reason for such a long thread is the high upside of a kid like Wroten if he were ever to put it all together. He's the kind of dribble drive threat that can make things easier for KP and Melo.

I'm sorry I do not see any similarities to Wroten and D.Will besides both being below average players and even so, there is a huge gap between how bad Wroten has played compared to D.Will before he became a knick. Even as a Knicks you can argue that D.Will is still a below average player when looking at other statistics. Also, when looking at D. Will and his efficiency you saw incremental improvements every year plus for three years he improved at the free throw line and usually shot above 70% from the line. If you want to argue Wroten injuries prevented him from showing improvements then I guess you can argue that. But again I go back to track record and there again is where D. Will seperates himself from Wroten because in college you see how great a player D. Will and how efficient he was. Plus, he could shoot free throws at a pretty good clip.

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:His attitude is great and I hope it works out for him. I think it is a low level risk but for him to have 25 pages is kind of silly. The likely hood of him improving his shooting is low based on history. I could see if he showed promise at the line but he doesn't even shoot over 70% for his career. That is very telling to me. His whole career has been a player who doesn't capitalize on the gifts he has. He can drive but isn't the best finisher. He can create contact and get to the line but doesn't make his free throws. He can break down the defense and create for others but those others also include the opposing team because he turns the ball over at a high rate. Finallly, he is a physical specimen but has suffered severe injuries to his knees.

I'll root for him but updating this thread just seems like a waste but then again these is a fanatics message board.

The way I look at Wroten is a little bit like DWILL. DWILL had his doubters and justifiably so. He never had been able to put it together even tho you could see the immense talent. There were doubts that DWILL could function in a structured offense. It seems tho that the longer he played in the system he started to figure things out. DWILL still has upside IMO.

Wroten has a similar chance to find a niche in this system. He's got MAJOR holes in his game but there's a chance for Wroten to focus on his flaws and make improvement. I think the Structure of the Triangle could be good for him. It's certainly going to be interesting to watch and see how he does. The reason for such a long thread is the high upside of a kid like Wroten if he were ever to put it all together. He's the kind of dribble drive threat that can make things easier for KP and Melo.

I'm sorry I do not see any similarities to Wroten and D.Will besides both being below average players and even so, there is a huge gap between how bad Wroten has played compared to D.Will before he became a knick. Even as a Knicks you can argue that D.Will is still a below average player when looking at other statistics. Also, when looking at D. Will and his efficiency you saw incremental improvements every year plus for three years he improved at the free throw line and usually shot above 70% from the line. If you want to argue Wroten injuries prevented him from showing improvements then I guess you can argue that. But again I go back to track record and there again is where D. Will seperates himself from Wroten because in college you see how great a player D. Will and how efficient he was. Plus, he could shoot free throws at a pretty good clip.

yellowboy90 wrote:His attitude is great and I hope it works out for him. I think it is a low level risk but for him to have 25 pages is kind of silly. The likely hood of him improving his shooting is low based on history. I could see if he showed promise at the line but he doesn't even shoot over 70% for his career. That is very telling to me. His whole career has been a player who doesn't capitalize on the gifts he has. He can drive but isn't the best finisher. He can create contact and get to the line but doesn't make his free throws. He can break down the defense and create for others but those others also include the opposing team because he turns the ball over at a high rate. Finallly, he is a physical specimen but has suffered severe injuries to his knees.

I'll root for him but updating this thread just seems like a waste but then again these is a fanatics message board.

I don't see any reason to look at Wroten getting 25 now 26 pages of fans talking about him as such a bad thing like you do, i see it as us fans going through a whole season of knowing how badly we needed a point guard that can penetrate and play defense and just do a lot of the things that any point guard we had all year couldn't do so the fans are happy we got one that can maybe/hopefully give us another edge to our game next year. We unfortunately weren't able to find out what Grant could really do until the last few games of the year so stop being such a debbie downer man, if fans wanna talk about Wroten for 26 pages and counting then i'm pretty sure it's not gonna hurt you in any way.

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:His attitude is great and I hope it works out for him. I think it is a low level risk but for him to have 25 pages is kind of silly. The likely hood of him improving his shooting is low based on history. I could see if he showed promise at the line but he doesn't even shoot over 70% for his career. That is very telling to me. His whole career has been a player who doesn't capitalize on the gifts he has. He can drive but isn't the best finisher. He can create contact and get to the line but doesn't make his free throws. He can break down the defense and create for others but those others also include the opposing team because he turns the ball over at a high rate. Finallly, he is a physical specimen but has suffered severe injuries to his knees.

I'll root for him but updating this thread just seems like a waste but then again these is a fanatics message board.

The way I look at Wroten is a little bit like DWILL. DWILL had his doubters and justifiably so. He never had been able to put it together even tho you could see the immense talent. There were doubts that DWILL could function in a structured offense. It seems tho that the longer he played in the system he started to figure things out. DWILL still has upside IMO.

Wroten has a similar chance to find a niche in this system. He's got MAJOR holes in his game but there's a chance for Wroten to focus on his flaws and make improvement. I think the Structure of the Triangle could be good for him. It's certainly going to be interesting to watch and see how he does. The reason for such a long thread is the high upside of a kid like Wroten if he were ever to put it all together. He's the kind of dribble drive threat that can make things easier for KP and Melo.

I'm sorry I do not see any similarities to Wroten and D.Will besides both being below average players and even so, there is a huge gap between how bad Wroten has played compared to D.Will before he became a knick. Even as a Knicks you can argue that D.Will is still a below average player when looking at other statistics. Also, when looking at D. Will and his efficiency you saw incremental improvements every year plus for three years he improved at the free throw line and usually shot above 70% from the line. If you want to argue Wroten injuries prevented him from showing improvements then I guess you can argue that. But again I go back to track record and there again is where D. Will seperates himself from Wroten because in college you see how great a player D. Will and how efficient he was. Plus, he could shoot free throws at a pretty good clip.

For the Knics he definitely could be the next AR but he was an athletic freak prior to his injury and he is only 23. JVG was talking about the shooting coach they had that changed Mase to a one anded shot for free throws during the Pistons game in reference to Drummond. He said it improved Mase's free throw percentage dramatically. Seeing how much Lance Thomas improved his outside shot, and Wroten working with Houston, you have to hope that he improves in the areas that have been deficits fr him.

IMO Wroten knows this is a HUGE opportunity. He REALLY wants this and I suspect he's never worked so diligently as he is now to make the most of this opportunity. He was chomping at the bit back before they signed the deal. He may never be a very good shooter but he can't stay as bad as he's been and have any hope of sticking in the NBA. As you mentioned working with H2O has to give him confidence and technique. From what i've seen of Wroten he doesn't look like he has no shot at improving his shooting. Gotta hope he can make a full recovery and earn a spot on the roster.

J.Wall and K.Walker also came into the league as bad shooters and neither one of them are that great of shooters now but they sure as hell can run their teams now can't they?? There's nothing better for Wroten right now then to have Phil Jackson in his ear and like Nix said in a earlier post the triangle system could be just what he needs to slow him down a little sometimes and make him think a little more.

We have the kid under a very team friendly deal so it can't hurt us in any way what so ever so lets give the kid a year and see if he grows.

Kemba Walker is probably the one player people can grasp on for hope when it comes to Wroten shooting. However, Walker is a career 82% Ft shooter. Wall has problems also but he knows how to finish at the rim and he is a career 79% free throw shooter. One thing they both could do is a run a team because their ast/to was good and near great. Plus, Wall is a good defender for a pg.

Another thing is that we do not know if this is something that will stick for Walker. This could be just a shooting blimp.

Like I said before, Wroten has many more deficiencies than most other players that I can think of. He needs to up grade so many aspects of his shooting, finishing, passing, ball security, and defense. He is on a deal that it's all reward and no risk but to think he might contribute this year seems unreasonable. Heck, I think he needs a year in the DL. I would even be okay if the Knicks just tried to make him a defensive specialist.

CrushAlot wrote:Another Wroten blog article.

Tony Wroten needs to make a case for a spot on the Knicks. Tony Wroten’s time in the NBA is filled with hype, potential, promise, and flash. His handles became famous in the NBA summer league. However, this is not a fairy tale story. He has the skills to turn summer league regulars and NBA hopefuls into his personal viral highlight reels. Wroten even showed real success back in November 2010 with a Sixers team that helped him make the NBA into his own summer league by averaging 21.9 points, 6.7 assists, 4.3 rebounds, and 2.7 steals per game as a 21 year old back up! Sadly all the promise came to a halt after multiple injuries have stolen seasons from him.

THE CASE FOR TONY WROTEN
Post Injury Reality

Now in 2016 Tony is coming off a partially torn ACL but he is the ultimate high risk, high reward play for the Knicks. He can come back as the budding star or he might be a shadow of himself. The evolution of his game prior to injury has been interesting because he hasn’t evolved. Throughout his time with the Sixers and Grizzlies, Wroten’s scouting report has read the same: he refuses to use his right hand and he has adopted the Rockets’ philosophy of never taking a mid-range shot. His three point shooting evolved into serviceable threat, whether as a function of all the long balls he takes or actual good shooting remains to be seen. His achievement on a Sixers team calls into question his abilities to succeed in a championship caliber system.

Exhibit A

His shooting habits should make him a comparatively effective shooter but his shooting is so bad he is 84th on a list of efficiency. When Wroten was on the Sixers this is what the average game looks like:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/what-hath-shammgod-wroten-the-emergence-of-another-sixers-point-guard/

6:13 — Wroten layup attempt blocked
6:05 — Wroten made 3-pointer
5:48 — Wroten steal
5:41 — Wroten turnover
5:02 — Wroten turnover
4:39 — Wroten made layup
4:39 — Wroten made and-1 free throw
It would be a severe understatement to call him a bundle of energy. That list is literally a Wroten only team for 90 seconds. I don’t know many teams are willing to put up with that kind of system. But he is too much of a talent to ignore at his size, athleticism, height, and his endless energy.

Knicks Take a Smart Gamble

The Knicks’ made a deal of veteran’s minimum for two years to fit the risk. The Knicks have his Early Bird rights and a non guaranteed second year. They are already over the cap with $73.8 million so they can’t exactly be picky. It is all green lights financially for the Knicks, but what about developmentally?

Phil Jackson has certainly made moves to effect a cultural change, so should we listen to Kobe Bryant that, “People in New York just need to trust the fact that he knows more about basketball than any of them put together.” Jackson has called Kurt Rambis “perfectly capable” of permanently coaching the team. He believes that Rambis’ time with the Wolves left a “black mark on his coaching ability,” and while that may be true, Rambis’ interim 9-19 record and unimpressive play calling doesn’t inspire any confidence, hidden or otherwise.

Wroten in the Triangle

On one hand, Wroten’s drives to the baskets, passing ability, size, and defensive ability fit what Jackson needs for the team’s triangle offense. On the other hand, his shooting inability (21.3% from three), shooting philosophy, and questionable play calling suggest a repeat J.R. Smith experience for Knick fans. The Knicks shoot the most shots from mid-range, something Wroten doesn’t often do, and the Knicks operate the least out of the left corner after shooting only 200 shots from there the entire season, a problem when Wroten doesn’t use his right hand. Ever. His habits keep him out of the Knicks established areas, thus potentially adding either dimension and depth or problems and turmoil. His shot chart can do the talking along with his refusal to use his right hand and the Knicks weak left side corner game. Wroten in the triangle points to problems despite having the tendencies to potentially fix the Knicks spacing problems.

One Coach To Rule Them All

According to the raw numbers offensively, Wroten and the Knicks just don’t always mesh. Now, a good coach might inspire some wizard ability to bring the two together in perfect harmony but Kurt Rambis is still in the coaching seat. New York needs a driver as they are bottom third in the league per game and bottom third in scores off drives. Tony Wroten can fix that. Meanwhile, he clogs up a young back court guard heavy rotation. Does he stunt the growth of younger guys? Everything about this signing has its positives and negatives, and maybe at this stage, that is exactly what the Knicks want.

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http://lastwordonsports.com/2016/05/02/tony-wroten-and-the-knicks/

Thx for posting this Crush! The last comment the writer made about Wroten possibly clogging up a young rotation and stunting someone's growth was strange given Wroten just turned 23 himself. People tend to treat him like some grizzled old guy that can't improve.

EnySpree wrote:The dude is in the gym everyday. He's with his family everyday. He wants to be in ny.he understands what that is all about. He wants to be great.

How can you not cheer for a guy like this?

If Phil can land a legit starring nba 2 guard, then I totally can see Wroten in the Jamal Crawford/Manu Gionobili role. If we can't get a 3 guard, I still can see the dude staying in a 2 headed pg role with Grant. They would be alot like Bledsoe and Dragic. We are very fortunate to have the coach that coached Dragic and Bledsoe when they win 48 games.

Everybody wants a young back court but don't want to cheer for guys when they come up. They want to sign dinnertime else's players. The potential is there for our own talent to succeed.

everyone wants to cheer for him we just can't totally see manu ginobili in him.

big difference in cheering for a guy and creating expectations that are most likely to fail.

EnySpree wrote:

mreinman wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The dude is in the gym everyday. He's with his family everyday. He wants to be in ny.he understands what that is all about. He wants to be great.

How can you not cheer for a guy like this?

If Phil can land a legit starring nba 2 guard, then I totally can see Wroten in the Jamal Crawford/Manu Gionobili role. If we can't get a 3 guard, I still can see the dude staying in a 2 headed pg role with Grant. They would be alot like Bledsoe and Dragic. We are very fortunate to have the coach that coached Dragic and Bledsoe when they win 48 games.

Everybody wants a young back court but don't want to cheer for guys when they come up. They want to sign dinnertime else's players. The potential is there for our own talent to succeed.

everyone wants to cheer for him we just can't totally see manu ginobili in him.

big difference in cheering for a guy and creating expectations that are most likely to fail.

So it's better to say they will fail before they get a chance to play?

Nobody knew Manu would be as good as he was. He was a second round pick. Dude looks like Balky from the TV show perfect strangers. Nobody knew he had those handles. Thing with Wroten is, we all know about Wroten skills. His handle is crazy. Yet somehow guys crowned him a bum. He's already averaged 16pts and 5 assists a game.... but nah he's not good. He's not even close to Manu. I can't see it.

I actually like Wroten a lot and think he's gonna stick with the team and be a rotation player next season.

But Manu Ginobili is a hall of famer. He's one of the best shooting guards of the past 20 yrs.

I don't see Wroten becoming that guy. It's not his game. They have very different styles.

mreinman wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The dude is in the gym everyday. He's with his family everyday. He wants to be in ny.he understands what that is all about. He wants to be great.

How can you not cheer for a guy like this?

If Phil can land a legit starring nba 2 guard, then I totally can see Wroten in the Jamal Crawford/Manu Gionobili role. If we can't get a 3 guard, I still can see the dude staying in a 2 headed pg role with Grant. They would be alot like Bledsoe and Dragic. We are very fortunate to have the coach that coached Dragic and Bledsoe when they win 48 games.

Everybody wants a young back court but don't want to cheer for guys when they come up. They want to sign dinnertime else's players. The potential is there for our own talent to succeed.

everyone wants to cheer for him we just can't totally see manu ginobili in him.

big difference in cheering for a guy and creating expectations that are most likely to fail.

Yup...

I have many doubts about Wroten, but will be more than happy to be proven wrong.

Sounds like his contract is very team friendly, so it would seem we can't lose.

Low expectations are the way to go...expect nothing...hope for something...never be unhappy.