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if the knicks stay realtively healthy next year

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BRIGGS
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7/25/2004 11:45 PM

and either

a. fail to make the playoffs
b. make the playoffs with a bad record and go out 4-0 in first round

would it be recourse to start an entire rebuild which would include trading Marbury.

RIP Crushalot😞

AUTOADVERT

tkf
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7/25/2004 11:53 PM

I don't know, but I like to think happy thoughts.... like

A) making the playoffs
B) advancing in the playoffs
C)keeping marbs..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF

kam77
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7/26/2004 12:01 AM

If that happens then no one is untouchable but if you're gong to tear the team down without first trading Allan, then it would be foolish to trade Marbury. Houston's contract and Shandon's contract are the hardest to move.

And if you're proposing that Marbury will be traded, what is he going to be traded for? Another tarnished Star? A couple nice players? Draft picks?

Before Marbury got here, this team's only hope was an early medical retirement for Houston and some cap space in 2006. Now that Marbury is here, and we're biding time til Allan's contract is off the books, Isiah will try and field a competetive team. A rebuild is simply not in Dolan's taste, i believe.

[Edited by - kam77 on 07/26/2004 00:02:02]

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.

PhilinLA
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7/26/2004 12:22 AM

I'll let you know when I know who's on the Knicks next year.

http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.

Rich
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7/26/2004 12:28 AM

Posted by PhilinLA:

I'll let you know when I know who's on the Knicks next year.

Exactly, because if Dampier is signed to a six year contract, and Crawford is signed long term as well, the Knicks are trapped.

I would prefer that no player be given a contract that is longer than 3 years in length so that the team can get under the cap when Houston's contract expires.

btw, Giving Baker any portion of the MLE is dumb.

[Edited by - Rich on 07/26/2004 00:29:09]

raven
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7/26/2004 5:11 AM

Posted by BRIGGS:

and either

a. fail to make the playoffs
b. make the playoffs with a bad record and go out 4-0 in first round

would it be recourse to start an entire rebuild which would include trading Marbury.

No offense to you briggy, but I really don't see the point of talking about complete failure before the season even started, though we're in the best shape we've been for years.

Silverfuel
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7/26/2004 6:46 AM

Posted by raven:
Posted by BRIGGS:

and either

a. fail to make the playoffs
b. make the playoffs with a bad record and go out 4-0 in first round

would it be recourse to start an entire rebuild which would include trading Marbury.

No offense to you briggy, but I really don't see the point of talking about complete failure before the season even started, though we're in the best shape we've been for years.
exactly!! Are you expecting a bad season?

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

TMS
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7/26/2004 8:50 AM

Posted by BRIGGS:

and either

a. fail to make the playoffs
b. make the playoffs with a bad record and go out 4-0 in first round

would it be recourse to start an entire rebuild which would include trading Marbury.

no, because they would still have about $35 million in expiring contracts w/which to make moves with (along w/a lottery pick in situation a.)...why give up your best player in that situation? if the Knicks get Jamal Crawford this year, & they have the contracts of TT, Penny & Nazr to make deals w/after the year is over, then there's no reason why i would think they needed a complete overhaul in order to improve their future situation unless there were a Lebron James available in the lottery the following year.

[Edited by - TMS on 07/26/2004 08:51:54]

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.

fishmike
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7/26/2004 9:27 AM

you always have to ask why. Did we lose to the Nets in 4 games because we were totally overmatched, or did we lose because we had 36 points a game injured in Houston and TT and nobody else who could hit an outside shot?

I would say its some of both, but if say just TT plays, we win those two close games at MSG and lose the series 4-2 against the team who went to b2b ECFs, well after 2 straight lottery seasons wouldnt you say thats a step in right direction?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs

djsunyc
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7/26/2004 9:49 AM

and either

a. win the division and make the playoffs
b. make the playoffs with a good record and win a round or two

would it be recourse for us to terminate your account and send you over to the espn boards.

come on man, your pessimism is killing me...

raven
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7/26/2004 10:20 AM

Posted by djsunyc:

come on man, your pessimism is killing me...

us, djsunyc... His pessimism is killing us...

I agree with you Fish. We were not so bad at MSG. I can't understand why people don't take into account the fact that we were missing key parts of our team and that we had very lil time to gel.

I don't see how the hell we'd miss the playoff this yr as we'll be better, even without adding anyone from now.

[Edited by - raven on 07/26/2004 10:22:51]

KNICKSdom
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7/26/2004 10:43 AM

This team can go far in the playoffs when healthy. The Nets playoffs sweep of last year was an aberration. Maybe we wouldn't have been swept if Thomas and Houston were healthy 100%. Especially considering Houston is a playoff player who elevates his numbers from the reg. season. All we need is a big man enforcer that won't let anyone get in the post easy like cutting butter. Kurt wasn't healthy either.

Knicks are happening and have a Unicorn.

raven
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7/26/2004 10:53 AM

Posted by KNICKSdom:

Kurt wasn't healthy either.

you said it. I even forgot that KT could not hit a jumper if his life depended on it. Man, that guy was playing with that broken pinkie, how can you have a physical D with that !

Vmart
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7/26/2004 11:42 AM

Posted by BRIGGS:

and either

a. fail to make the playoffs
b. make the playoffs with a bad record and go out 4-0 in first round

would it be recourse to start an entire rebuild which would include trading Marbury.

I can't ever see the Knicks rebuilding. To much money at stake to rebuild for the owners. If that were to happen Briggs, I think that the expiring deal of Penny and TT will be used to get talent from another team. They both would have a year left after this year and they would hold a lot of value to a team that might be considering getting under the cap or just looking to cut payroll. Combined they are worth $25 million. Based on that I think rebuilding would be out of the question for the KNicks besides you know their policy. Sometimes I thik that the Knicks really aren't about Championships but about filling in the seats, not that rebuilding would bring them a championship anyway.

[Edited by - Vmart on 07/26/2004 11:48:07]

islesfan
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7/26/2004 1:37 PM

If the Knicks don't ever rebuild then don't expect to ever see another championship. I believe you're right when you say that the Knicks aren't about championships but filling seats.

What do you get for expiring contracts anyway? Flawed players whose current teams don't want anymore, usually because of their outrageous contracts.

How many teams are the Knicks going to help build into legitimate contenders (Denver and possibly the Suns) before they start to realize that this isn't the way to build one?

If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System

Bonn1997
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7/26/2004 1:44 PM

Posted by Vmart:
Posted by BRIGGS:

and either

a. fail to make the playoffs
b. make the playoffs with a bad record and go out 4-0 in first round

would it be recourse to start an entire rebuild which would include trading Marbury.

I can't ever see the Knicks rebuilding. To much money at stake to rebuild for the owners. If that were to happen Briggs, I think that the expiring deal of Penny and TT will be used to get talent from another team. They both would have a year left after this year and they would hold a lot of value to a team that might be considering getting under the cap or just looking to cut payroll. Combined they are worth $25 million. Based on that I think rebuilding would be out of the question for the KNicks besides you know their policy. Sometimes I thik that the Knicks really aren't about Championships but about filling in the seats, not that rebuilding would bring them a championship anyway.

[Edited by - Vmart on 07/26/2004 11:48:07]

The Knicks ARE rebuilding as we speak right now. How is it not rebuilding when you replace Eisley and Ward with Marbury at PG and are trying to get a young talented SG (Crawford) to gradually replace an old Houston at SG and are freeing up space for a young talented PF (Sweetney) by getting rid of (or trying to get rid of) veterans like Spoon and Harrington? Rebuilding does NOT require simply stockpiling lottery draft picks like the Bulls and Clippers do or trying to get cap room like the Hawks do.

franco12
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7/26/2004 1:53 PM

thank you Bonn!

Rebuilding is exactly what Isiah is doing and he is using the best tools available to him.

The only way Briggs two scenario's come true is if there is another season of injury to one of the main studs- Marbs, H20 or TT.

And with that situation, nothing is going to change

and I don't think Isiah wouldn't trade Marbs if the deal made this team better- but there aren't too many players that can do that-
certainly Vince is not worth the risk and doesn't offer significant upside

And Shaq over the hill like he is certainly wouldn't have been worth trading a star young PG for.

Knicksfan
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7/26/2004 2:27 PM

The Knicks ARE rebuilding as we speak right now. How is it not rebuilding when you replace Eisley and Ward with Marbury at PG and are trying to get a young talented SG (Crawford) to gradually replace an old Houston at SG and are freeing up space for a young talented PF (Sweetney) by getting rid of (or trying to get rid of) veterans like Spoon and Harrington? Rebuilding does NOT require simply stockpiling lottery draft picks like the Bulls and Clippers do or trying to get cap room like the Hawks do.

Completely agree. People don't want to see that Isiah is indeed rebuilding this team, only NY style. You don't only rebuild completely through the draft and a lot of cap room. Thats one way, the only way Briggs seems to want NY to rebuild. But the fact is that since he arrived Isiah knew his task: become the Knicks a competitive team but with young players for it to last. Marbury is young and is our franchise player. The deal for TT and Nazr was definitely a deal for the future because both players seem to have more potential than the one they have developed. Sweetney is an important part of this team now, and with past Knicks teams he would have been just a bench player with no time in the court. Isiah is looking to bring young players with potential to help both now and the future, like Crawford. He definitely knows what team he wants to have in some seasons, and that team is a young and athletic one. We haven't started all over, but slowly we are changing this team into a younger and more talented team. Thats also rebuilding.

Knicks_Fan

Vmart
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7/26/2004 3:17 PM

I also agree that IT is rebuilding the team but in a unconventional way. I could careless how he rebuilds the team as long as they win the Championship. I don't necessarily think that the draft is the best way to rebuild but a combination of trades, drafts and FA signing is the best way to the goal of a championship. All anyone has to do is look at the past champions. Lakers and the Pistons. Pistons had one draft pick of theirs in the lineup and the rest of the players came in trades and free agency. The Lakers pretty much had Kobe who actually was traded for but we will consider Lkaers pick because he got traded around draft time. other than him the rest were trades and FAs. Rebuilding doesn't necessarily have to be through the draft but getting young talent in a variety of deal.

codeunknown
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7/26/2004 4:30 PM

I don't understand how there is such a discrepancy over the definition of the word, "rebuild." If by rebuilding you mean making significant changes to improve the team, every team is trying to do that except San Antonio, Sacramento, Indiana, Detroit and Minnesota. These teams are already very good. Teams that have assets can trade or sign free agents and draft, teams that don't have assets can only draft. Simple as that. If you have assets and can improve more quickly via trades or signings, drafting players is not an absolute necessity.

Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.

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