[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Knicks should acquire Dajuan Wagner
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
rojasmas
Posts: 21207
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/25/2004
Member: #639
7/23/2004  11:38 PM
He might come real cheap right now, certainly a lot cheaper than Crawford. And, he has the potential to bust out if he is recovered from his injuries. He would be a bigtime lift off the bench to spell Marbury and could play in a 3 guard rotation with Marbury and Houston. Lastly, if he's healthy, again, putting him and Marbury together would definitely be worth the price of admission. If we are going to be a 500. team anyhow, we might as well be entertaining.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
AUTOADVERT
MaTT4281
Posts: 33803
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #538
USA
7/24/2004  12:29 AM
If that was the case, where we get Wagner over JCraw, I'd rather just keep Frank and use him in the 3 guard rotation, where Marbs can play some of the 2.
It might just be me, but I see just as much potential in Franky as I do in Wagner.
NYKfan1
Posts: 20137
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/28/2004
Member: #679
USA
7/24/2004  2:02 AM
wagner has much more potentail than frank. dont get me wrong, frank is one of my favorite knicks, but come on. wagner is much quiker, is just as good a perimeter shooter and if u remember corectly he averaged 13 ppg in his rookie year and do u remebber how good he was early in that season when he averaged 19 ppg 4 a while but when davis came bac from injury it slowd him down. and look at last year wagner avg 6-1-1 in around 45 games and frank avg 3-2-1 in bout 50. again i love frank but wagner is just a better prospect. if the knicks cant get crawford at the rite price and they can get wagner cheap than they shoud.
technomaster
Posts: 23233
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
7/24/2004  2:55 AM
I wonder--- I'm not convinced that Wagner is a better player than FW; certainly if you had to ask me which one I'd want playing PG today, there's little doubt that I'd choose Frank Williams.

We haven't seen much of Wagner--- his career thus far has been plagued by injury after injury. This was his first real summer league, and he failed to impress. He hasn't shown the ability to guard bigger guards, nor players his size for that matter.

The only saving grace is that Wagner is only 21, FW is 24. There's the upside issue--- but I dunno, it's tough to learn the PG position at the pro level.

Frank has a more mature game... and during his brief tenure as starting PG for the Knicks, seemed like he had Derek Harper-like potential. Wagner has done little to show he's the next anybody.

IMHO, FW is a better fit for the Knicks.

HOWEVER... going by draft position, you'd think Wagner would be the superior player.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
7/24/2004  10:55 PM
To me:>) going after Wagner is a low risk/high reward scenario.

We know Wagner can score from the 2G--we know he's an ending contract and I really believe we can get him for Harrington+ perhaps a second rounder[houston's]

why would i do this? because going after Crawford is going to cost the team millions and then we are going to sign him to a contract BIGGER than what Rip Hamilton makes ---bigger than what artest makes et al...... and he has proven nothing in terms of winning w/very spotty, inconsistent play


im not sold on crawford he shinny like rip but hes not as tall and NOWHERE near as tough--so paying a very SKINNY 2 G that kind of loot is truly a high risk. I just think we should be patient. Go trade for Wagner on the cheap and sign rodney white also on the cheap. split the minutes and lets see if one or both of these guys can really breakout.
RIP Crushalot😞
KNICKSdom
Posts: 20799
Alba Posts: 8
Joined: 1/17/2004
Member: #545
USA
7/24/2004  11:14 PM
I am not opposed to bring Wagner over to NY. He can make a nice three guard rotation of Marbury, Houston. That's a mix of speed, athleticism and perimeter offense. Plus the rotation mades for good guard press on D. I like Frank too but Wagner has more potential to put up better numbers than Frank could.
Knicks are happening and have a Unicorn.
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
7/24/2004  11:41 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

To me:>) going after Wagner is a low risk/high reward scenario.

We know Wagner can score from the 2G--we know he's an ending contract and I really believe we can get him for Harrington+ perhaps a second rounder[houston's]

why would i do this? because going after Crawford is going to cost the team millions and then we are going to sign him to a contract BIGGER than what Rip Hamilton makes ---bigger than what artest makes et al...... and he has proven nothing in terms of winning w/very spotty, inconsistent play


im not sold on crawford he shinny like rip but hes not as tall and NOWHERE near as tough--so paying a very SKINNY 2 G that kind of loot is truly a high risk. I just think we should be patient. Go trade for Wagner on the cheap and sign rodney white also on the cheap. split the minutes and lets see if one or both of these guys can really breakout.

with all that being said briggs. crawford is twice the offensive player rip is, can create his own shot and shot for others, and he is a tough player( I don't know where you got that from), I do agree that getting both wagner and white are low cost, high reward options...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BigSm00th
Posts: 24504
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/9/2001
Member: #178
USA
7/25/2004  12:02 AM
I'm all for getting him, especially for the cheap price of Harrington, but are the Cavs biting.

As they're constructed now, their roster is:
PG: Snow, McInnis
SG: Wagner, Jackson, Pavlovic
SF: James, Newble
PF: Gooden
C: Ilgasukas, Hunter, Diop

Jackson, Pavlovic, James, and Newble are all pretty much interchangeable at the 2/3, and obviously they don't think Wagner can run the point b/c they just got Snow. If they ask for Harrington and Williams, I'd still probably do it b/c I've liked Wagner since he was in HS.

I just don't think CLE is that desperate to deal him that they'll give him up for Harrington, who was horrible last year.

He'd be a senior in college this year, so he's obviously still young. The only problem would be how do you defend a guard who's 6'6" when you have two guards who are 6'3" (Marbury and Wagner)?

[Edited by - bigsm00th on 07/25/2004 00:05:56]
#Knickstaps
Knicksfan
Posts: 32907
Alba Posts: 27
Joined: 7/5/2004
Member: #691
USA
7/25/2004  12:40 AM
Posted by BigSm00th:


He'd be a senior in college this year, so he's obviously still young. The only problem would be how do you defend a guard who's 6'6" when you have two guards who are 6'3" (Marbury and Wagner)?

[Edited by - bigsm00th on 07/25/2004 00:05:56]

Isn't Wagner 6'0"?
Knicks_Fan
nyballer
Posts: 21019
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/4/2001
Member: #108
USA
7/25/2004  12:41 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by BRIGGS:

To me:>) going after Wagner is a low risk/high reward scenario.

We know Wagner can score from the 2G--we know he's an ending contract and I really believe we can get him for Harrington+ perhaps a second rounder[houston's]

why would i do this? because going after Crawford is going to cost the team millions and then we are going to sign him to a contract BIGGER than what Rip Hamilton makes ---bigger than what artest makes et al...... and he has proven nothing in terms of winning w/very spotty, inconsistent play


im not sold on crawford he shinny like rip but hes not as tall and NOWHERE near as tough--so paying a very SKINNY 2 G that kind of loot is truly a high risk. I just think we should be patient. Go trade for Wagner on the cheap and sign rodney white also on the cheap. split the minutes and lets see if one or both of these guys can really breakout.

with all that being said briggs. crawford is twice the offensive player rip is, can create his own shot and shot for others, and he is a tough player( I don't know where you got that from), I do agree that getting both wagner and white are low cost, high reward options...

crawford and rip arent even in the same league of players. it's different when you can put up 17 for a horrible team (jamal) and when you put up 17 for the world champions (not to mention more than 21 in the playoffs). and hamilton's defense is way better than crawford, its not even close. hamilton's energy on offense and constant movement tire his defender to the point where they can barely play decent offensively. there is no way that jamal crawford can warrant more money than rip... if you put crawford on a playoff team, not the world champions, but a playoff team, and he can still put up 17 AND play defense somewhere close towhat rip plays, then ill say hes worth it. i'm not saying dont get crawford, but hes nowhere close to the player rip hamilton is
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
simrud
Posts: 23392
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/13/2003
Member: #474
USA
7/25/2004  1:17 AM
Rip is not a shuddown defender, he is an average defender, the pistons have Prince guard the swing guys on opposing teams. Actually, before Larry Brown came over, Rip was a below average defender. Right now everybody in the Pistons looks like a defensive player of the year cause of the system and the shotblocking they got behind them to erase there mistakes on the perimeter.

As for Wagner being suposedly better then FW, it depends on what you mean by better. Is Wagner a better scorer? Absolutley. But FW is a much beter passer, rebounder, defender, and overall team player, plus a much better atitude. So what it comes down to is what do we really need? Another scorer or a team oriented guy who can defend and benefit from not being a primary option.

All that said, I'd trade OH for Wagner in a heartbeat, provided we can't use OH's expiring deal in any other trade. If anything, Wanger has more trade value then OH.

Which brings me to a queston of why would the Cavs trade him for OH?

I would not however trade OH AND FW for Wagner. FW has a higher trade value right now then Wagner, if we are gonna trade him, we should also get a pick our of the deal or another player we like on the Cavs. Or at least another expiring deal to swing to the warriors for Dampier.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
nyballer
Posts: 21019
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/4/2001
Member: #108
USA
7/25/2004  1:25 AM
Posted by simrud:

Rip is not a shuddown defender, he is an average defender, the pistons have Prince guard the swing guys on opposing teams. Actually, before Larry Brown came over, Rip was a below average defender. Right now everybody in the Pistons looks like a defensive player of the year cause of the system and the shotblocking they got behind them to erase there mistakes on the perimeter.
If you're saying crawford is better defensively than rip, i have to disagree with you. rip's energy alone allows him to keep up with whoever hes guarding. tayshaun guards the swingmen for the most part because he is long and matches up well with them - like kobe, reggie, etc. Rip was on redd during the milwaukee series and he played artest for stretches of the indy-detroit series where artest did terribly.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
7/25/2004  8:21 AM
rip was the main reason why ct won the ncaas in 1999 and almost to the final four in 1998. rip is probably the games best mid range shooter[shoots 45% with most of his shots coming from the outside] and at 6-7 with long arms and high character fits in perfect with a team who plays defense first. there is no comparison between crawford and hamilton-if you traded hamilton for crawford, detroit likely wouldve lost to the Bucks in the 1st round.
RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
7/25/2004  11:12 AM
Nazr & a future restricted pick for Wagner & Diop would get the deal done i think...i think it would be worth the risk to make that trade, as both players still have a high ceiling & could turn into good players w/the right coaching & development...Nazr is pretty much what he's going to be at this point, but at least he's a solid frontcourt player who would help them shore up their frontcourt (along w/Gooden), which is lacking now that Boozer's gone.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
Posts: 37321
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
7/25/2004  1:30 PM
Dajuan Wagner's ceiling is questionable. At 6-1 200 or so he's a pure SG and has much worse PG skills than FW or Crawford. Wagner was said to be a poor man's Iverson, but he's been injury prone and his handle has been suspect. He will always be a defensive liability at the two, is a low percentage shooter and doesn't distribute the ball. He can be a guy that puts points up in a hurry, but I definitely don't like him as much as I liked him coming out of college. I agree with those that would rather have FW, who did a damn good job in the playoffs of swinging over to the 2.
<P>
Crawford on the other hand is 6-5 190 with a frame to add more pounds. He has proven scoring ability and a sick handle. He has a tendency to take bad shots, but was that because he was the only perimeter threat on a terrible team? We know he can distribute teh ball...he got 5 assists last year, and has shown to a be a 2 who can backup the 1.
<P>
Wagner will be available for less, but Crawford is and will be the superior player IMO. I'm not convinced Wagner's long term future is as a starter in this league, while I think both Crawford and even FW's will be.
TLover
Posts: 21038
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 2/12/2003
Member: #381
USA
7/25/2004  1:45 PM
TMS
Posts: 729
Joined: 05/11/2004 Posted - 07/25/2004 : 11:12:39
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nazr & a future restricted pick for Wagner & Diop would get the deal done i think...i think it would be worth the risk to make that trade, as both players still have a high ceiling & could turn into good players w/the right coaching & development...Nazr is pretty much what he's going to be at this point, but at least he's a solid frontcourt player who would help them shore up their frontcourt (along w/Gooden), which is lacking now that Boozer's gone.

-------------------
- TMS. ~ www.thezoneforums.com ~ NY Sports Talk without the B.S.!




TMS, I'm all for that trade proposal. I had suggested Kurt for Diop & Wagner, but now that the Dampier trade looks like a no go, Naz & pick would be fair. We can use Kurt & Deke for Walker. Looks like we're
re-signing Vin Baker so Naz would become expendable.
If we were to get Wagner, we should still go after Crawford.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
7/25/2004  1:59 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Wagner will be available for less, but Crawford is and will be the superior player IMO.

the reason i proposed this was because it was low risk, high potential reward...trading for Jamal would be great, but you'd be giving up alot more to get him in players & in contract...Diop & Wagner are still signed to rookie deals & they could still be used as trading chips if they didn't fit in well w/this team.

losing Nazr Mohammed wouldn't make me shed a tear, & that protected pick is well worth giving up for 2 top 10 lottery picks from a year or 2 ago.

[Edited by - TMS on 07/25/2004 13:59:54]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
simrud
Posts: 23392
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/13/2003
Member: #474
USA
7/25/2004  2:14 PM
Once again, Diop can't play and Wagner is most likley a bust. Now you want to give up our starting C for him. Who are you going to start at C? Diop? Thats great, why don't we trade for some more busts who used to be lottery picks just because.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
7/25/2004  2:36 PM
Nazr isn't going to bring this team anywhere...to take the chance on 2 young players who actually have some potential is well worth giving him up imo...Isiah is more than likely going to re-sign Vin Baker, & you still have Kurt Thomas who can give you minutes at C even if Isiah doesn't make any other moves to get Dampier...Sweetney can handle PF...then you have Diop coming off the bench in back of those guys & Wagner being groomed to be used much like they are planning to use Crawford.

btw, if you don't like the deal, then just say you don't like it...spare me the sarcasm because i don't play that crap...you can keep that stupid argument going w/TLover if you want...don't get me mixed in w/it.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
Posts: 37321
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
7/25/2004  2:52 PM
TMS- We Disagree on the upside of Wagner. I agree it would be low risk, but I think its at best medium reward. I just don't see him as a starter in this league.

I also wouldn't do the Nazr deal. Ok, Nazr can't play defense, but lets not forget this guy could easily put up 10 and 10 as a 30 mpg starter. He's a good rebounder who finds ways to score points and seems to be working to hard to improve his game. I already mentioned what I think about Wagner. Diop to me only has impressive size. He can block shots a little, but the guy is still years away from becoming Jerome James.

[Edited by - VDesai on 07/25/2004 14:53:49]
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Knicks should acquire Dajuan Wagner
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy