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Winning 35, 40 or losing in the 1st round in the playoffs won't change the fact that we have some players now
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nyknickzingis
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2/7/2016  10:12 PM
Like

Porzingis at 20 years old (Could be an all-star, possibly a franchise player)
Lopez is 27 (Starting 2-way Center)
Thomas is 27 (Starting caliber 2-way Forward, or high quality reserve who can be 1st forward off the bench)
Galloway is 24 (Backup 2-way ballhandling guard)
Grant is 23 (Has some potential to be a PG in the league, at worst a good backup in 1-2 years)
DWill is 24 (Has shown he can be a 6th man)

We're missing a starting point guard who can give the team 13-15 points a night, some playmaking especially off screen/rolls.
We need someone who can do what Afflalo does, but only better and younger.

I think winning 35 or 42 games in a season like this is irrelevant to the bigger picture in that the Knicks have some players here that fill in holes longterm.

The thing I'm not sure about is where Melo fits in. If the team can get better fast, he fits. If not, I think it's in the best interests of the team to trade him for a high draft pick or a talented young player who is in his early 20's.

Calderon/Afflalo are 1-2 year guys, they won't be here either next season or max the year after that. Phil has to get some younger guys in to replace Calderon/Afflalo as starters. If he can do this in free agency in 2016 and 2017, then I think the Knicks longterm will be fine, regardless of whether we won 35 or 41 games this year.

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arkrud
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2/8/2016  12:00 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:Like

Porzingis at 20 years old (Could be an all-star, possibly a franchise player)
Lopez is 27 (Starting 2-way Center)
Thomas is 27 (Starting caliber 2-way Forward, or high quality reserve who can be 1st forward off the bench)
Galloway is 24 (Backup 2-way ballhandling guard)
Grant is 23 (Has some potential to be a PG in the league, at worst a good backup in 1-2 years)
DWill is 24 (Has shown he can be a 6th man)

We're missing a starting point guard who can give the team 13-15 points a night, some playmaking especially off screen/rolls.
We need someone who can do what Afflalo does, but only better and younger.

I think winning 35 or 42 games in a season like this is irrelevant to the bigger picture in that the Knicks have some players here that fill in holes longterm.

The thing I'm not sure about is where Melo fits in. If the team can get better fast, he fits. If not, I think it's in the best interests of the team to trade him for a high draft pick or a talented young player who is in his early 20's.

Calderon/Afflalo are 1-2 year guys, they won't be here either next season or max the year after that. Phil has to get some younger guys in to replace Calderon/Afflalo as starters. If he can do this in free agency in 2016 and 2017, then I think the Knicks longterm will be fine, regardless of whether we won 35 or 41 games this year.

Agree - we do have 7 players who are NBA worthy...
Not sure abut DWill value yet, and Thomas, Galo, and Grant are bench players.
Melo is good player if he stays or good asset if he goes. And it is up to him.
Phil job about 45% done so 30+ games will be a very good result.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
knickscity
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2/8/2016  5:45 AM
All those guys are bench players except KP. While a team needs a good bench, they also need good starters. BTW, Gallo might be the only two way player. Lol at Lopez being two way.
ChuckBuck
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2/8/2016  9:06 AM
We have 2 players. The rest are cannon fodder.
Bonn1997
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2/8/2016  9:08 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:We have 2 players. The rest are cannon fodder.

Yeah, I don't think we have much long-term. We only have impressive young player on a good contract.
We do have cap space but that was inevitable and only puts us on equal ground with other teams. If we're just adding more Afflalo's and O'Quins, the cap space doesn't matter.
matt
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2/8/2016  9:13 AM
Some of those guys may turn out to be starters - who knows. At least we have KP. He's the rare item to find. But I'm more concerned with the overall coaching/system. We are not maximizing KPs talent with the tiny amount of PnR the offense is made up of.
Bonn1997
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2/8/2016  9:18 AM
matt wrote:Some of those guys may turn out to be starters - who knows. At least we have KP. He's the rare item to find. But I'm more concerned with the overall coaching/system. We are not maximizing KPs talent with the tiny amount of PnR the offense is made up of.

Yeah but most teams have some young guys who might turn out to be starters. Even during our worst seasons, we always had a few guys who at the time you could say might turn out to be starters. We really need KP to become a special player.

nyknickzingis
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2/8/2016  9:57 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/8/2016  10:02 AM
I don't think it's as simple "Well those guys are all bench guys".
Lopez has started on a contender in Portland. He is a starting quality Center on a good team, however he can not be your go to scorer in the paint.
Yes after that, the rest of the guys are backups. However that's ok. You need a good team in this league to have both starters and some quality backups. Spurs, Golden State even Cleveland have quality bench players.

With Williams (4) Thomas (3) Galloway (2) and Grant (1) I think our bench is set for a few years. With Lopez, KP and Melo likely our starting front court. We are 2 players away - a starting high quality SG and a starting high quality point guard away from being a contender. Afflalo and Calderon are both past their prime and also not good enough to be the 3rd/4th best players on a good team right now.

Way I see it, with free agency this summer, if Phil can get 1 starter and then maybe 1 starter in 2017 via free agency again, in the 2017-18 season we have a legit shot at making a real run. KP will be 22, Melo will be 32, we'll have a loaded team with guys in their prime. It's all about getting that starting backcourt better and younger via free agency.

Even if say we won 42 games this year which is what we were on pace to do at 21-21, would we have made the playoffs? Would it have pushed the front office to overpay players like Afflalo, believe that Calderon can last another few years as starter? I think the way things have gone down are actually better for the franchise in the longrun. It should be clear to Phil now that he can not rely on Melo as a franchise player throughout a season (Although Melo is clearly an all-star and top 25 player he does not stay healthy enough). It's clear he can not rely on the Afflalo/Calderon backcourt another season. He knows he has some young guys like Porzingis, Williams, Lopez, Thomas, Galloway, Grant who can be part of a top 9 on a contender. I think if we would have won 42-43 games or maybe sneaked into the playoffs, it would have given them a false sense of loyalty to the Afflalo/Calderon backcourt which they shouldn't have.

The real positive to me is that we've got 6-7 young players around Melo, and we have capspace this summer and next to acheieve what we need to become a strong playoff team for consecutive years. That is a far more important thing than to make a 1 year run and then overpay or invest in older players that won't be able to sustain their level. Just think about what some of us were saying a few weeks back. Pay Afflalo 30 M/3 years or something like that. There was this belief that the Knicks were already there and that's been wiped out now. I feel this is a positive in that it'll show the front office they ought to be extremely aggressive in trades and free agency this summer. They've got 6-7 players and Melo for next 3 years but need 2 major additions to get competitive to the level of being a consistent year in year out playoff team.

I see us being far far more aggressive in trades for future longterm assets and in free agency this summer the way things have gone vs had the team been able to sneak into the playoffs. The worst thing this team could have done is invest longterm in Afflalo and think Calderon was going to get the job done another year. There's no more dispute now. Can't rely on Afflalo to be the team's 3rd best player on a consistent basis, and can't rely on Jose as the team's starting point. I don't mind either playing being back another year, but not as a starter. With this in mind, Phil Jackson has to know he has to make some moves. I think the aggressive pursuit of backcourt players will be far greater now than had the team won 41+ games. The Knicks will rely on internal growth from KP, Grant etc. but they'll also know now they have to get some veterans who are younger and better. I can't see us just making a few small moves this summer now.

Winning 35, 40 or losing in the 1st round in the playoffs won't change the fact that we have some players now

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